1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrf]

Shills

[Kiara]

It seems a good amount of the people who dislike the ending have either given up or have already said their complaints and are waiting for Bioware to make the next move. I am not sure how anyone can like the endings... lol different expectations I suppose? or they haven't played all three games.. I am not sure lol

[Vikali]

Tyrf wrote...

Shills

Case and point.

Kiara wrote...

It seems a good amount of the people who dislike the ending have either given up or have already said their complaints and are waiting for Bioware to make the next move. I am not sure how anyone can like the endings... lol different expectations I suppose? or they haven't played all three games.. I am not sure lol

 

And like I said, over 500 hours invested, every book and comic read.

Where do I fit in?

Modifié par KitePolaris, 19 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[KotorEffect3]

Tyrf wrote...

Shills

Because disagreeing with you makes them shills right?  Narrowmindedness has never been this prevelant on the bsn.

[Irishkev]

they may not be active here but trust me they very active in other areas. but till bioware responds no put in spamming the same news here

[Vikali]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Tyrf wrote...

Shills

Because disagreeing with you makes them shills right?  Narrowmindedness has never been this prevelant on the bsn.

And they accuse us of being the aggressive ones.

[DESTRAUDO]

I share a lot of your sentiments. Also on bioware writing an ending that does not lesses peoples current endings. If they do an indoctrination ending they will basically kill the ending i selected. 

My hope is that you get a dlc where you lead a team to rescue the crew of the normandy. As shepard if you chose destroy, as one of your galaxy at war promotes or an n7 operative if you chose otherwise. If you chose destroy then you get your beach party on the planet the normandy crashed on but also have to deal with joker loss of EDI and EDI's death. You discover it will be at least a decade before a few mass relays can be rebuilt, meaning a lot of small wars while power gaps are filled. Your decision resulted in your survival and personal reward, at the cost of a less stable galaxy. 


If you sacrificed yourself then your n7 guy/proxy had to break the news of your death to the crew and deal with the heartbreak of certain characters you promised to come back to. You then all head to earth where a funeral for shepard is held and everyone gets to say their bit about you based on your choices. With reaper aid the mass relay network should be restored in a year or two tops, with the reapers taking an active role in preventing new wars from springing up. Your sacrifice has meaning and the result is a galaxy after the war which is more stable than if you had chosen the destroy option, at the cost of your life and in the anguish of your friends. 

Lightice_av wrote...

First of all to those who like it: I may disagree with you, but I don't care what you think. If we get a new ending, what does it take aay from you? Is is that your ending will no longer be pure and will be spoiled by explaining it?

The problem is that writing a completely new ending would pretty much throw a wrench in Bioware's artistic integrity, and make their game design essentially a matter of voting. When that road starts, there is no stop. I fear that it'll lead to increasingly generic choices on the company's part, and trying to please everybody simultaneously, they eventually end up pleasing nobody. In the case of ME3 the arguments for changing the ending will turn to arguments on whether the game was changed too much or not enough, or if it was changed the right way, or whether there still should be a happy ending, or is the ending too happy...It's extremely unlikely to actually resolve anything.

Personally I would like more depth added to the current endings, showing us how all the people we influenced react to our choices in the days and years following the war in some kind of montage. But the vast majority would still call that ending a cop-out and pour even more flames to the fire.

[rtv053]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Some good ideas RTV! I especially like the part about the relay's being destroyed being necessary to break free from the reapers influence.

The funny thing is that, its all there in the games. Legion talks about the Geth disapearing beyond the Perseus Veil because they wanted to find their own path, and he insists on the importance of that; of finding your own way in the galaxy.
Moving away from the Reaper-path, species that have been uplifted by another species generally don't fare well.

1) The Krogan - uplifted by the Salarians into a galactic community of which they were not socially prepared to be a part. They were still too divisive and warlike to be uplifted - they needed time to be left to their own devices, so that they could become more settled and peaceful.

2) The Drell - uplifted by the Hanar, because they were endangered, and now are even more endangered than they were before.

3) The Prothean Empire - if Javik is to be believed, largely composed of species whose evolutionary/social/technological developments were dictated to them by the Prothean master species. The fact that not one of them remain just furthers the theme that to be truly strong, you need to progress on your own terms.

The ending for me reflects this need to return to nature in a way, to return to a state where life can find its own way. One way or another, TIM fails because, despite his alleged vision, he can see no other way to advance humanity other than by using the Reapers.
The crew of the Normandy must find their own way to survive on that jungle planet, with limited resources, with only their own cunning, ingenuity and strength to work with, and this is a microcosm of what the rest of the galaxy has to face up to.

[WingerNu1]

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Skipped all the other posts, but maybe it's just the fact that they can appreciate the story for what it is, and didn't feel the need to waste so many hours of their lives complaining in the hopes that another's art will be changed simply because the viewer wasn't happy with it, and *then* go to the forums to complain about the people that didn't like it.  Honestly, it's just a game, I can't comprehend why so many of you believe it's reasonable for you to go throw a hissy fit about it's ending, and then have the nerve to attempt to insult those that don't agree with you.

[Vandicus]

If every plot hole had been covered and the choice between control, destroy, and synthesis had been presented in a reasonable manner, the ending has a theme that could be perceived as artistic or possessing deep messianic tones. At the very surface Shepard is forced to make a choice, after meeting the super advanced ancient AI which sought to preserve life through destruction(it sounds poetic on the surface but as we all know, relies on idiotic circular logic), between accomplishing his original goal, becoming the new super advanced ancient AI(who hopefully finds a better way to run things), or uniting all organic and synthetic life(ignoring the very disturbing implications, this option actually sounds downright peachy in that it continues the theme of unity between quarian and geth).

However, thinking of the ending in this way as it stands currently relies on either not caring about the plot holes and the poor presentation via a high suspension of disbelief, or not being aware of them. If a person thinks plot holes are deep, well they may be deep, but they sure as hell aren't artistic or meaningful.

Modifié par Vandicus, 19 mars 2012 - 11:03 .

[Johnners91]

KitePolaris wrote...

Tyrf wrote...

Shills

Case and point.

Kiara wrote...

It seems a good amount of the people who dislike the ending have either given up or have already said their complaints and are waiting for Bioware to make the next move. I am not sure how anyone can like the endings... lol different expectations I suppose? or they haven't played all three games.. I am not sure lol

 

And like I said, over 500 hours invested, every book and comic read.

Where do I fit in?

Just wanna add, for those who think those who liked the ending are new to the series or less devoted etc. that I loved the game and the ending, after what must be 20+ playthroughs of Mass Effect 1 and 2 together.

I've never read any of the novels (probably wouldn't bother seeing any sort of film adaptation either), and I can't say I know the Codex by heart, but I'm definitely a die-hard fan.

Modifié par Johnners91, 19 mars 2012 - 11:05 .

[pilot2969]

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

[Vikali]

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

I still don't see the basis for that argument. Because I fit in your category for a fan, and am probably one of the largest. But I don't hate the endings.

I am in fact on my third playthrough now.

Modifié par KitePolaris, 19 mars 2012 - 11:08 .

[valkulon]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Valhart wrote...

Can't I just like an ending to like it? I don't really need to explain myself do I? I'm not asking people to explain why they don't like the ending, mostly because I understand why they don't like it, but I myself liked the ending.

It's not the ending I was looking for that's for sure, I do have my own problems with it, namely the jump from the Citadel being a bastion of defense to suddenly in Reaper control, but I still liked the ending overall.

What I'm saying is liking art is a matter of perspective.

What we were told for the past year during the marketing ramp up for the game and how the series and Shepard's story WOULD END were a pack of lies.

We were led to believe it was going to be an epic ending where we were going to somehow finally kick the reapers in the daddybags and the united galaxy would emerge triumphant with Shepard either alive, wounded, or dead, and the casualties along the way dependent upon the choices you made during the entire journey. That would have been epic. The reapers had never faced a united galaxy before. This had the Seven Samurai written all over it.

But we had the Seven Samurai, and then just as the entire series was about to tie everything together we get .... entirely new stuff that contradicts the lore of the first two installments and everything we've learned thusfar.

So what we, the consumer got was unfulfilled expectations. Bioware overpromised and underdelivered. That's a cardinal sin in marketing. We were told the multi-player was going to be totally separate from the single player game, but they are completely intertwined for the purpose of selling extra veteran and spectre packs for Microsoft Points on the 360 to unlock weapons in the Single Player game, or to get stuff for the multiplayer so you can level up faster and convert things to military readiness from the multiplayer. So that was a lie.

It is this stuff that makes us, the loyal consumer, angry about the product we bought because we invested a lot of time into the previous products, and trusted their marketing hype. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

I think you meant to quote someone other than me because what you wrote in resonse to my post doesn't really fit what I typed up at all. My post was directed at the OP more than anyone else within the thread.

I'm not trying to be a dick, just confused why you're quoting me. lol

I'm cool with the people who don't like the ending and the people who liked the ending. What I don't like is the people going around talking down to the people on either side. The OP is a prime example of the **** that just shouldn't be said.

If you liked the ending that's awesome! If you hated the ending that's awesome too! If you want to say why you liked or hated that's cool. Just don't be a dick about it.

[pilot2969]

KitePolaris wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

I still don't see the basis for that argument. Because I fit in your category for a fan, and am probably one of the largest. But I don't hate the endings.

Like I said, it's not everyone who is finishing up the game now. At first I liked the ending myself, but the more I sat and thought about it the more it upset me. I understand WHY people like the ending about as much as I understand why people don't. I am in the camp of at least providing us with some more closure, and I feel that Bioware really ignored an opportunity to make an epic conclusion. 

[Vikali]

Valhart wrote...

I'm cool with the people who don't like the ending and the people who liked the ending. What I don't like is the people going around talking down to the people on either side. The OP is a prime example of the **** that just shouldn't be said.

If you liked the ending that's awesome! If you hated the ending that's awesome too! If you want to say why you liked or hated that's cool. Just don't be a dick about it.

Pretty much this.

[Vikali]

pilot2969 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

I still don't see the basis for that argument. Because I fit in your category for a fan, and am probably one of the largest. But I don't hate the endings.

Like I said, it's not everyone who is finishing up the game now. At first I liked the ending myself, but the more I sat and thought about it the more it upset me. I understand WHY people like the ending about as much as I understand why people don't. I am in the camp of at least providing us with some more closure, and I feel that Bioware really ignored an opportunity to make an epic conclusion. 

Liking the ending doesn't mean you don't want to see it expanded uon. I really like the idea they were going for, the execution could have been better. Do I hate it? No.

And I stick to my guns with liking it because, contrary to you, I see more opportunity than not. But that could very well be because I am more dedicated to the universe as a whole than the general group we ran around with for three games.

[rtv053]

KitePolaris wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

I still don't see the basis for that argument. Because I fit in your category for a fan, and am probably one of the largest. But I don't hate the endings.

I am in fact on my third playthrough now.

Seconded. I was looking for NWN character builds on Bioware the day that ME1 was announced. I bought a 360 with that game in mind. I looked at the ME1 website most days, often first thing in the morning (I was a student at the time, didn't have to worry about work) all the way up to release. Day one purchase. Same with ME2, same with ME3. I've been with it from the very beginning. And I really like the ending.

Also, my girlfriend contradicts your theory, because she is very new to the series, and doesn't like the ending... direct quote from her now "I want my fairytale ending, because I'm a girl." Well, can't argue with self-imposed sexism.

[Poison_Berrie]

vertigo72 wrote...

Why I like the endings? Because they are good. You just have to think a little bit to see a whole picture but when you did everything makes sense.

People thought that ME is a space soap opera with some sci-fi, turns out it's a hard sci-fi with some space soap opera. That hurts.

As someone who appreciates hard sci-fi I take offense to that.
You don't know what hard science fiction is, if you consider that ending to be it.

The Crucible and Citadel combine to make
1) you control the Reapers, but only through some a pulse rather than the methods they use among themselves (probably Quantum Entanglement)
2)  Destroy the Reapers by shooting a tube which sends out a pulse of radiation that only targets synthetics (hard scifi knows that EMP can be lethal to humans)
3) The worst offender rewrite all organic and synthetic live to be the same... SAY WHUT!?

That ending made the game into a sci-fantasy.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 19 mars 2012 - 11:16 .

[pilot2969]

KitePolaris wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

I still don't see the basis for that argument. Because I fit in your category for a fan, and am probably one of the largest. But I don't hate the endings.

Like I said, it's not everyone who is finishing up the game now. At first I liked the ending myself, but the more I sat and thought about it the more it upset me. I understand WHY people like the ending about as much as I understand why people don't. I am in the camp of at least providing us with some more closure, and I feel that Bioware really ignored an opportunity to make an epic conclusion. 

Liking the ending doesn't mean you don't want to see it expanded uon. I really like the idea they were going for, the execution could have been better. Do I hate it? No.

And I stick to my guns with liking it because, contrary to you, I see more opportunity than not. But that could very well be because I am more dedicated to the universe as a whole than the general group we ran around with for three games.

In all honesty if all they did was wrap up the plot holes I would be a lot happier. I for one agree with you about the execution of the ending, it had a lot of potential, and I understood what they were going for. I was disappointed with how they handled the war assets, and ignored a lot of our decisions. I really did feel at the end of the game like I wasted my time because none of the decisions I made felt like it mattered at the end, again though, closing the plot holes created by the ending would make me a lot happier and able to settle for what we were provided with regarding an ending. I still think it was a cheap, forced ending, but I don't hate it either, it just made me feel empty which is not how I personally wanted to experience the ending. 
 

[DESTRAUDO]

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

Because if people disagree with you they are lesser fans. I bought me1 on the day or release. Same for 2. Same for 3 and i have all the dlc. I have a model of the normandy on my desk and a framed signed dead reaper art print on my wall, and the full me artbook on my shelf. So when you suggest that people who liked the ending are not emotionally attached to the characters or lore, it is pretty insulting. I love Mass Effect. And i was more than happy with the ending i selected.

Deal with it. 

[pilot2969]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

I think what we are seeing at this point are the gamers who are not the diehard fanbase finishing up their ME3 playthroughs. People who may have just jumped into the series, or may have only played ME2, or just casual gamers who are not as focused or involved in the lore and characters. People who are not as emotionally invested in the series will most likely be willing to accept the endings as is. The initial wave of ending contempt came from us hardcore players who finished the game within 48 hours of release. I'm not saying that everyone who is finishing up their playthroughs now likes the ending, but it's my theory as to why we're seeing it now.

Because if people disagree with you they are lesser fans. I bought me1 on the day or release. Same for 2. Same for 3 and i have all the dlc. I have a model of the normandy on my desk and a framed signed dead reaper art print on my wall, and the full me artbook on my shelf. So when you suggest that people who liked the ending are not emotionally attached to the characters or lore, it is pretty insulting. I love Mass Effect. And i was more than happy with the ending i selected.

Deal with it. 

Who said that I disagreed with you? I'm cool with the people who liked the endings, and I acknowledge that not everyone who likes them are lesser fans, but I stand by my argument that I feel the uptick in the pro-ending camp is due to this phenomenon, could I be wrong? Absolutely, but it makes sense.  

[Vikali]

pilot2969 wrote...

In all honesty if all they did was wrap up the plot holes I would be a lot happier. I for one agree with you about the execution of the ending, it had a lot of potential, and I understood what they were going for. I was disappointed with how they handled the war assets, and ignored a lot of our decisions. I really did feel at the end of the game like I wasted my time because none of the decisions I made felt like it mattered at the end, again though, closing the plot holes created by the ending would make me a lot happier and able to settle for what we were provided with regarding an ending. I still think it was a cheap, forced ending, but I don't hate it either, it just made me feel empty which is not how I personally wanted to experience the ending. 
 

Honestly, I actually do think my choices mattered. I find a ot of people, not all mind you, however, a good portion of the ones who go toe to toe with me don't realize the whole galaxy wasn't in the Sol system. I've had people tell me the Quarians will never see their homeworld and the Krogans will never have children because they're trapped in Sol. But they forget that the other speicies didn't bring every single member to fight.

Like I said, the execution irks me, and I think the Normandy scene was a poor attempt to satisfy the fans since iirc the squad mates were supposed to die. And I think they tried to make it be more uplifting but didn't think it through. 

[OozesAwesome]

Because people have started to piece together what the ending truly is. A hallucination!

I was very disappointed when I first finished but now that I've pieced it together, I think the ending is quite ingenious. That does not diminish the fact though that EA is specifically doing this for DLC revenue because the true ending could easily have been incorporated into the released game. Same for Javik.

Funny thing now is that Bioware is going to release an ending DLC claiming that they did it for the fans when that was what was being planned all along.

Hey we asked for it, we got it....and for only $14.99.

[Vikali]

OozesAwesome wrote...

Because people have started to piece together what the ending truly is. A hallucination!

I was very disappointed when I first finished but now that I've pieced it together, I think the ending is quite ingenious. That does not diminish the fact though that EA is specifically doing this for DLC revenue because the true ending could easily have been incorporated into the released game. Same for Javik.

Funny thing now is that Bioware is going to release an ending DLC claiming that they did it for the fans when that was what was being planned all along.

Hey we asked for it, we got it....and for only $14.99.

Please, let's not turn this into another indoctination theory debate thread. There are enough of those.