1309 réponses à ce sujet

[GhostlyMaiden]

Kraykan82 wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Your entitled to your view of course. But I take offense to this.

I would argue that the majority of Ending Haters had a pre constructed view of what the ending should have been, and when this wasn't presented to them - it shook their foundations.

The Ending likers I have spoken to seem to be looking at it from a philosophical / moral / spiritual point of view, and as such debating different theories as to what it means.

To say that people like myself are not into the series and it's lore / history etc and a nothing more than action loving COD players is a massive sweeping statement founded only on your perception and stereotypes.

I would argue that it is you that needs to open your mind.

Seconded. I hate Call of Duty. I hate Halo. I. Hate. Shooters. I was willing to put up with it, because I was fascinated with its story, the paragon/renegade dialogue wheel, and its world. The only times I ever rose higher than Casual or Narrative were for difficulty achievements and they were the purest form of Hell to get through.

I like the ending, simply because I do not hate it. It's unoriginal and cliche, but it doesn't make me rage like Prince of Persia '08 and Final Fantasy XIII-2 did.

[Diablos2525]

CasbynessPC wrote...

For every one person who has started a thread saying "I finished the game, I think the endings are okay", there is then an entire 5-15 page conversation where dozens of other people respond negatively, either in an unhelpful insulting way or in a more helpful tone explaining what's wrong with the endings.

I think anyone who posts that they liked the endings should be immediately directed to the recent Angry Joe Top 10 article, plus the Starchild Youtube video and related Casey Hudson November twitter post. I really don't see how anyone can accept the current endings after reviewing those things, it looks like a pretty clear case of Devs running out of time and having to throw something together in desperation at the last moment, similar to what Obsidian had to do with KOTOR 2.

It's sad, but I still hope it can be fixed.

Hey, that is the video I have been linking, angry joe's 10 plotholes in the ending. :happy:

[justlogme]

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

  Two words...
  Bioware employees

[Lunaluxlepus]

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Seriously, you should delete all the 'stupid's in your thread.

You are making us look bad.

[shurikenmanta]

AlexXIV wrote...
- obviously everyone who likes the ending must start a new thread about it
- obviously everyone who likes the ending loves Bioware and goes over the top with praise
- obviously nobody who likes the ending can last in a discussion about whether they make sense
- obviously everyone who likes the ending goes condescending at some point

You are aware of course that, if people chose to typecast rather than listen, the same statements can all be applied to 'your side'?

[Gunslinger01101]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well you describe the problem with the people I have perfectly.

- obviously everyone who likes the ending must start a new thread about it
- obviously everyone who likes the ending loves Bioware and goes over the top with praise
- obviously nobody who likes the ending can last in a discussion about whether they make sense
- obviously everyone who likes the ending goes condescending at some point

Ok, what do we make of it?

I am really not unreasonable even though I have been sort of rude to such people because they simply annoy me. But I want only ONE of them explaining the ending so it makes sense and we can scrap all of it. We really only need someone to explain the things that happen in a manner that brings closure and explains why 1+1=3.

Obviously none of that is obvious or even true most of the time. I have seen the concept explained more times than I can count, use forum search.

What I haven't seen is very MANY solid arguments against it. I have seen a few.

[The Nur]

Calm?

Heh.

Obviously wasn't around in the wee hours of the morning after Bioware's misstep followed by moderator's heavy handed locking of every non-favorable thread they could squueze and stretch a reason out of.

I think a lot of the like is also backlash to the people who didn't like it. Pro-ending people don't seem to be held to the same standard for locked threads and spread themselves out with a thread for each individual poster it seems. Retake people have coalesced for the most part into the few threads the moderator's allowed to exist.

[AlexXIV]

Geez, seriously, companies always lie and nothing needs to be explained? THAT's why you like the endings ... ok, I guess.

[Kraykan82]

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

[Bourne Endeavor]

vertigo72 wrote...

Why I like the endings? Because they are good. You just have to think a little bit to see a whole picture but when you did everything makes sense.

People thought that ME is a space soap opera with some sci-fi, turns out it's a hard sci-fi with some space soap opera. That hurts.

50 millions years old Reapers don't care about your character, your choices and if you are paragon or renegade. "Oh, I see that you helped Gianna Parisini and kicked that BlueSun out of the window, so here a special (happy) ending for you". He even don't know about this stuff. All that matters it that you made it to the Citadel. They always said that Reapers are invincible? They are, no plot-holes here. It's all very logical. Maybe sad, but logical.

Your reward is not a happy retirement on a beach and lot a blue children. Your reward is to decide the future of all life in the Galaxy. That's pretty big reward in my opinion.

Except for the fact you are inventing a narrative that does not exist. We have established lore dictating the destruction of a Mass Relay would cause immediate devastation to an entire system. Three hundred thousand Bartarians would killed when we last destroyed one. Why the abrupt change now? Even disregarding this plot hole, we are left with an armada of galactic scale all stranded in the Sol System, orbiting the remnants of Earth.

The only decision provided is death in virtually every scenario or rewriting every species in existence as a hybrid synthetic on perhaps the off chance they no longer require food to live, otherwise half the fleets their to assist you starve to death. Great reward for the galaxy. Instead of a quick demise via the Reapers, they get a slow agonizing one.

You can like the ending all to your fancy but inventing scenarios that did not happen in order to justify your opinion as fact, has no bearing as an objective opinion. In short, you are making things up. This is not thought provoking or creative ambiguity. It is merely poor writing.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 19 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Diablos2525]

GhostlyMaiden wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Your entitled to your view of course. But I take offense to this.

I would argue that the majority of Ending Haters had a pre constructed view of what the ending should have been, and when this wasn't presented to them - it shook their foundations.

The Ending likers I have spoken to seem to be looking at it from a philosophical / moral / spiritual point of view, and as such debating different theories as to what it means.

To say that people like myself are not into the series and it's lore / history etc and a nothing more than action loving COD players is a massive sweeping statement founded only on your perception and stereotypes.

I would argue that it is you that needs to open your mind.

Seconded. I hate Call of Duty. I hate Halo. I. Hate. Shooters. I was willing to put up with it, because I was fascinated with its story, the paragon/renegade dialogue wheel, and its world. The only times I ever rose higher than Casual or Narrative were for difficulty achievements and they were the purest form of Hell to get through.

I like the ending, simply because I do not hate it. It's unoriginal and cliche, but it doesn't make me rage like Prince of Persia '08 and Final Fantasy XIII-2 did.

There's your problem, why even give Final Fantasy a chance at this point. That series has been going downhill for years, at least if you like deep rpg stories and compelling gameplay. Rather than linear, auto-battle, emo protagonist nonsense.

[Captain Shakespeare]

Leaving things unexplained isn't what I take issue with, it's the plot actively contradicting itself in multiple places.

[Gunslinger01101]

GhostlyMaiden wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Your entitled to your view of course. But I take offense to this.

I would argue that the majority of Ending Haters had a pre constructed view of what the ending should have been, and when this wasn't presented to them - it shook their foundations.

The Ending likers I have spoken to seem to be looking at it from a philosophical / moral / spiritual point of view, and as such debating different theories as to what it means.

To say that people like myself are not into the series and it's lore / history etc and a nothing more than action loving COD players is a massive sweeping statement founded only on your perception and stereotypes.

I would argue that it is you that needs to open your mind.

Seconded. I hate Call of Duty. I hate Halo. I. Hate. Shooters. I was willing to put up with it, because I was fascinated with its story, the paragon/renegade dialogue wheel, and its world. The only times I ever rose higher than Casual or Narrative were for difficulty achievements and they were the purest form of Hell to get through.

I like the ending, simply because I do not hate it. It's unoriginal and cliche, but it doesn't make me rage like Prince of Persia '08 and Final Fantasy XIII-2 did.

Yep, it's the people that hate the ending that failed to think about it.

[StrawberryRainPop]

Half of the people are just jumping on the bandwagon that we are whiny, the other half just doesnt care about story, IE newcomers to the series who like the action only.

Or you also have people who are just really dumb. I know that sounds harsh, but yeah some people are just that dumb.

[Dimensio]

Kraykan82 wrote...

I am a massive, MASSIVE fan of the series, and I loved the ending.

It was thought provoking, unexpected, and has led to some really interesting discussion between my friends and I as to how we interpreted it.

What is really fascinating is how differently everyone perceives it's meaning.

On a side note I do think however, think that it is possible that the whole god child experience was indoctrination. And the 3 options you are presented with are a test.

I also can't help but feel this was planned all along, with the intention of expanding on it with DLC.

Such a "plan" would contradict developer claims that the game would conclude the story of Commander Shepard, though the ending as it occurs already contradicts developer claims that player decisions throughout the series would influence the events of the ending.

[CavScout]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Here's a hint: Something left unexplained is not a plot hole....

Yes.... yes it is. That is the very definition of a plot hole.

Uh...nope. Not at all. Might want to look up the definition of plot hole.

I did, and your wrong lol.

an obvious mistake or missing element in the plot of a film, book or play

You are missing the important bits: ...is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

Try again.

[shurikenmanta]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

Most of them are internet trolls that just want to ****** off the RetakeMassEffect crowd. So I just ignore them.

That's like people assuming that all the Hold The Line crew are self-entitled babies. It's a sweeping generalisation that makes no sense.

Why would it be self-entitled to expect to pay 60 or 80 dollars and expect bioware to fullfill the promises they themselves laid out in their marketing campaign for the game, and in the actual game itself.

"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C" ~ Casey Hudson

Please explain this quote....

^ This.

]

You need to re-read my post.

[Njald]

I would imagine the ending appealing to the people enjoying JRPGs. It's about narrative and not player choice or living thru the character. So MassEffect essentially became a poorly timebudgeted JRPG without player choice. Some people don't mind that. Just like some people wouldn't mind a cinema showing the wrong movie in the theatre as long as they got popcorn and explosions. (and to those thinking this is belittling to the "enjoyers", maybe you should ponder why you need to asume that enjoying explosions and popcorn would be wrong?)

[Whatever42]

I believe there is far less uniformity of opinion that you think, even among the ending haters.

Some hate it because they don't believe their decisions played a large enough role.
Some hate it because Shep and the LI appear separated.
Some hate it because the ending is derivative (as if the whole series wasn't derivative)
Some hate it because there is no epilogue (no blue babies)
Some hate it because the ending choices aren't developed and explored in the series enough while the issues that are explored in depth appear to be peripheral at best

Some like it because it is philosophical choices are interesting
Some like it because they always envisioned a bleak ending to the series
Some like it because they haven't been book clubbing the story and it makes enough sense to them

But if Shep and the crew (especially the LI) were re-united (or handled in some other emotionally satisfying fashion where people don't run away) then suddenly I think ending likers would outnumer ending haters significantly. I suspect most of us don't hate the ending because the issues explored were missing from the rest of the series in any significant fashion and not rationalized enough at the end of the game - but because the Shepard personal story wasn't ended satisfactorily.

Most haters probably aren't deeply analysing the series either, but simply want a more satisfying emotional ending.

[nomoredruggs]

Let's not forget we are talking about opinions, here.

People having a different opinion than you does not equal they are stupid.

And ofcourse they are going to call us entitled and whiners if all we do is insult them.

Let the ones who liked the endings like the endings, let us who don't like them voice our concerns to Bioware and hope for a solution.

[AlexXIV]

Kraykan82 wrote...

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

Forget this. Explain to me why synthetics wipe out all life. Explain why Shepard gets to choose the endings and why those three choices are the only ones possible. And then explain why the endings fix the problem the AI wanted to solve to begin with. Easy as that.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 19 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Gunslinger01101]

Diablos2525 wrote...

CasbynessPC wrote...

For every one person who has started a thread saying "I finished the game, I think the endings are okay", there is then an entire 5-15 page conversation where dozens of other people respond negatively, either in an unhelpful insulting way or in a more helpful tone explaining what's wrong with the endings.

I think anyone who posts that they liked the endings should be immediately directed to the recent Angry Joe Top 10 article, plus the Starchild Youtube video and related Casey Hudson November twitter post. I really don't see how anyone can accept the current endings after reviewing those things, it looks like a pretty clear case of Devs running out of time and having to throw something together in desperation at the last moment, similar to what Obsidian had to do with KOTOR 2.

It's sad, but I still hope it can be fixed.

Hey, that is the video I have been linking, angry joe's 10 plotholes in the ending. :happy:

Yep, and yet every point in that is an argument for why THE WHOLE THING IS A DREAM STATE INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT. I would bet good money that most of the ending haters that agree with his angry joe fella have never seen the back end of a decent lit class.

[Diablos2525]

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Seriously, you should delete all the 'stupid's in your thread.

You are making us look bad.

Care to explain how calling stupid people stupid makes "us" look bad? Stupid is just a synonym for ignorant, and if they don't realize all the plotholes the endings create than they are ignorant of the history of the mass effect universe. So I shouldn't call a spade a spade because it might offend someone?

[CavScout]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Why I like the endings? Because they are good. You just have to think a little bit to see a whole picture but when you did everything makes sense.

People thought that ME is a space soap opera with some sci-fi, turns out it's a hard sci-fi with some space soap opera. That hurts.

50 millions years old Reapers don't care about your character, your choices and if you are paragon or renegade. "Oh, I see that you helped Gianna Parisini and kicked that BlueSun out of the window, so here a special (happy) ending for you". He even don't know about this stuff. All that matters it that you made it to the Citadel. They always said that Reapers are invincible? They are, no plot-holes here. It's all very logical. Maybe sad, but logical.

Your reward is not a happy retirement on a beach and lot a blue children. Your reward is to decide the future of all life in the Galaxy. That's pretty big reward in my opinion.

Except for the fact you are inventing a narrative that does not exist. 

Says the one with the Indoc support banner in their sig....

[Deflagratio]

I could see people entering the series at Mass Effect 3 liking the ending. They haven't become invested in the characters and world the same way. To Mass3 Inductees, the ending simply represents the end of one battle, not the five-years of relationships, compromises and heroics that get pissed away in 10 minutes.