1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Shallyah]

They're just the backlashing vocal minority that reacts to this massive movement.

The polls are there in every site showing that 85-98% of the players found Mass Effect 3 ending cheap, incomplete and anticlimatic.

[ZzOoRrGg]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Here's a hint: Something left unexplained is not a plot hole....

Yes.... yes it is. That is the very definition of a plot hole.

Uh...nope. Not at all. Might want to look up the definition of plot hole.

Okay fine. But lets see what ME3 DOES violate:

-Unlikely actions or behaviors of characters (LOL you figured me out, Shepard you wily dog! Go ahead and blow us up now, I won't stop you at all!)
-Illogical or impossible events (Geez Shepard, Harbinger blowing us up and all, I dunno. Gonna just go chill on the Normandy I guess. Good luck and all)
-Events happening for no apparent reason (OH **** GUYS HAPPY HOUR ON TUCHANKA LETS GO)
-Statements/events that contradict earlier events (Remember that destroyed mass relay that killed the Batarians a few months back? Naaaah, won't happen here)

Other plot flaws:
-Deus Ex Machina (LOL HERE'S A DEVICE WE JUST FOUND THAT CAN KILL ALL THE REAPERS)
-Violation of Chekov's Gun (Dark Energy)

Edit: I just want to point out that while I have absolutely no problem with the PREMISES of the endings themselves, the PRESENTATION of such are like eating at a Yoshinoya.

Modifié par ZzOoRrGg, 19 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[CavScout]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Seriously, you should delete all the 'stupid's in your thread.

You are making us look bad.

Care to explain how calling stupid people stupid makes "us" look bad? Stupid is just a synonym for ignorant, and if they don't realize all the plotholes the endings create than they are ignorant of the history of the mass effect universe. So I shouldn't call a spade a spade because it might offend someone?

You're tried to redefine "plot hole" and now you want to redefine "stupid". Somebody should take away your internet.

[Gunslinger01101]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

Forget this. Explain to me why synthetics wipe out all life. Explain why Shepard gets to choose the endings and why those three choices are the only ones possible. And then explain why the endings fix the problem the AI wanted to solve to begin with. Easy as that.

You are either thick headed or too angry to think. the WHOLE POINT is that the line the kid gives you is B.S. The Reapers want you to NOT choose destroy, so the kid paints it as the worst option and tries to make the reapers sound a bit more altruisitc to push you over the edge. He even goes so far as to color destroy in renegade red for those of us that follow that sort of thing. So, yeah, it doesnt make sense. Your job was to SEE THROUGH THAT and choose destroy. Did you?

[AlexXIV]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I believe there is far less uniformity of opinion that you think, even among the ending haters.

Some hate it because they don't believe their decisions played a large enough role.
Some hate it because Shep and the LI appear separated.
Some hate it because the ending is derivative (as if the whole series wasn't derivative)
Some hate it because there is no epilogue (no blue babies)
Some hate it because the ending choices aren't developed and explored in the series enough while the issues that are explored in depth appear to be peripheral at best

Some like it because it is philosophical choices are interesting
Some like it because they always envisioned a bleak ending to the series
Some like it because they haven't been book clubbing the story and it makes enough sense to them

But if Shep and the crew (especially the LI) were re-united (or handled in some other emotionally satisfying fashion where people don't run away) then suddenly I think ending likers would outnumer ending haters significantly. I suspect most of us don't hate the ending because the issues explored were missing from the rest of the series in any significant fashion and not rationalized enough at the end of the game - but because the Shepard personal story wasn't ended satisfactorily.

Most haters probably aren't deeply analysing the series either, but simply want a more satisfying emotional ending.

Well that reasoning has about as much holes as the ME3 ending. I guess you just like holes. That's why you like the ending.

[Diablos2525]

Double post sorry.

Modifié par Diablos2525, 19 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[VonVerrikan]

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

More or less this. If you like the endings, you probably don't like the series. You're certainly not emotionally invested in the thing, either. 

[Diablos2525]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

CasbynessPC wrote...

For every one person who has started a thread saying "I finished the game, I think the endings are okay", there is then an entire 5-15 page conversation where dozens of other people respond negatively, either in an unhelpful insulting way or in a more helpful tone explaining what's wrong with the endings.

I think anyone who posts that they liked the endings should be immediately directed to the recent Angry Joe Top 10 article, plus the Starchild Youtube video and related Casey Hudson November twitter post. I really don't see how anyone can accept the current endings after reviewing those things, it looks like a pretty clear case of Devs running out of time and having to throw something together in desperation at the last moment, similar to what Obsidian had to do with KOTOR 2.

It's sad, but I still hope it can be fixed.

Actually, Indoctrination/Dream sequence isn't taken up as the major theme of the video at all. All he does is lay out Bioware quotes which are now proven to be lies, and tells us about the 10 plotholes created by the ending. Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched.

Hey, that is the video I have been linking, angry joe's 10 plotholes in the ending. :happy:

Yep, and yet every point in that is an argument for why THE WHOLE THING IS A DREAM STATE INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT. I would bet good money that most of the ending haters that agree with his angry joe fella have never seen the back end of a decent lit class.

Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched. His focus isn't on dream/indoctrination theory. Rather he points out the 10 plotholes the ending leaves us with, and gives us Bioware quotes before the release of the game which have proven false.

[Hernok]

I love the three games, and for me the third game, all the game was a final for me! Yes the ending its too short, but change it? NO!

[Gunslinger01101]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Here's a hint: Something left unexplained is not a plot hole....

Yes.... yes it is. That is the very definition of a plot hole.

Uh...nope. Not at all. Might want to look up the definition of plot hole.

Okay fine. But lets see what ME3 DOES violate:

-Unlikely actions or behaviors of characters (LOL you figured me out, Shepard you wily dog! Go ahead and blow us up now, I won't stop you at all!)
-Illogical or impossible events (Geez Shepard, Harbinger blowing us up and all, I dunno. Gonna just go chill on the Normandy I guess. Good luck and all)
-Events happening for no apparent reason (OH **** GUYS HAPPY HOUR ON TUCHANKA LETS GO)
-Statements/events that contradict earlier events (Remember that destroyed mass relay that killed the Batarians a few months back? Naaaah, won't happen here)

Other plot flaws:
-Deus Ex Machina (LOL HERE'S A DEVICE WE JUST FOUND THAT CAN KILL ALL THE REAPERS)
-Violation of Chekov's Gun (Dark Energy)

Look up Chekov's gun, you don't have that quite right...it's not a violation...its actually a culmination...chekov's gun is "if you see a gun on stage in the first act, it will be used in the third act, probably to kill someone." Anyway, all those things you state? Arguments for why it was a giant B.S. attempt to convince you to give up to indoctrination. Of course it makes no sense. you are supposed to SEE that and say, eff you reapers, i pick DESTROY!

[Bobamelius]

CavScout wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Here's a hint: Something left unexplained is not a plot hole....

Yes.... yes it is. That is the very definition of a plot hole.

Uh...nope. Not at all. Might want to look up the definition of plot hole.

I did, and your wrong lol.

an obvious mistake or missing element in the plot of a film, book or play

You are missing the important bits: ...is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

Try again.

Going against established flow of logic is exactly what the ending does, and why so many people take issue with it.

[AlexXIV]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

Forget this. Explain to me why synthetics wipe out all life. Explain why Shepard gets to choose the endings and why those three choices are the only ones possible. And then explain why the endings fix the problem the AI wanted to solve to begin with. Easy as that.

You are either thick headed or too angry to think. the WHOLE POINT is that the line the kid gives you is B.S. The Reapers want you to NOT choose destroy, so the kid paints it as the worst option and tries to make the reapers sound a bit more altruisitc to push you over the edge. He even goes so far as to color destroy in renegade red for those of us that follow that sort of thing. So, yeah, it doesnt make sense. Your job was to SEE THROUGH THAT and choose destroy. Did you?

No, you don't get the point. Why does the AI even give Shepard a choice. Either that's the indoctrination theory or doesn't make sense. Shep was good as dead before the AI lifted him/her up. Why? Because it was lonely? Needed someone to chat with? Wanted some answers from a 30 year old N7 soldier that it could not find itself in a billion years? Yeah, it is easy to like if you don't ask any questions, that's already more than clear.

[DranakShadow]

Maybe they have more to worry about than a fictional universe?

Probably also has a lot to do with forum calming down some.

[Aiyie]

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

this.  the hardcore fans are the ones who picked it up day 1.  just like with anything else.  just like how you usually don't see people dressing up in costumes to see a movie a month after it came out.

this is why bioware said they wanted to wait and see.

if even the newcomers find the ending bad, then they'd know they need to fix things.  but if they don't, then the need to change things is diminished.

the hardcore fans have already spoken and have a quantifiable number.  in order to justify putting the resources into changing things, the devs need to know that more than just the initial fans have an issue with the ending.  they need to know that the impact on their bottom line will continue well beyond the pre-orders and release day sales.

otherwise, they're just as likely to suck up the PR loss with the hardcore fans and bank on the newcomers, who aren't so disgruntled, continuing to purchase their products in the future.

[shurikenmanta]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Seriously, you should delete all the 'stupid's in your thread.

You are making us look bad.

Care to explain how calling stupid people stupid makes "us" look bad? Stupid is just a synonym for ignorant, and if they don't realize all the plotholes the endings create than they are ignorant of the history of the mass effect universe. So I shouldn't call a spade a spade because it might offend someone?

Because tha majority of the people who don't like the ending actually don't believe the ending-likers are stupid. They respect the other person's right to like something even if they may not understand why.

Playing the 'everyone but me is an idiot because I'm right' card tends to turn people against you and confirm the worst generalisations.

[Lightice_av]

I frankly continue to be surprised by all the vitriol and mad anger towards the endings, most which doesn't even seem to be directed at some of the problems they had, but the fact that they didn't include "lives happily ever after, world returns to status quo"-end.

The ending is thematically appropriate and satisfying way to close off the trilogy; the destruction of the Mass Relays signifies an end to the covert control that the Reapers held over the organic civilizations for countless of cycles, and Shepard's choice determines which of the three core perspectives to the synthetic life that have been presented throughout the trilogy the galaxy ends up embracing. Neither of these is a problem concerning the end.

The only issue that I take with the whole thing is that we can't see the reactions of of all the people we influenced on to the choice that we make. I feel that the end credits should have been filled with brief scenes from days, months, even years after the war, of the people who survived and the species who joined the battle, and how they are adapting to the events that you orchestrated, culminating on the stinger in the end. The absence of this is a rather serious issue I feel, since it makes the ending feel less personal than it should. If Bioware is going to do any kind of "Director's Cut" of the ending, this is what I would find the best compromise between the fan desires and the creative integrity of the organization.

[Whatever42]

AlexXIV wrote...
Well that reasoning has about as much holes as the ME3 ending. I guess you just like holes. That's why you like the ending.

I didn't say I liked the ending. I just think that most of the people hating it don't hate it because of plot holes or non-sensical endings.

People liked the ME1 ending, even though Sovey fainting at the end was cliche.
People liked the ME2 ending, even though it made even less sense that the ME3 ending.

But they could have "happy" outcomes.  So saying the likers are less thoughtful than the haters doesn't make sense.

[Mathias]

First off i think it was pretty stupid to create a thread like this. It doesn't help our cause it it gives reason for Bioware to decide not to fix the endings. So good job.

Secondly, I have seen more people say they liked the ending, but it hasn't been THAT many. And a lot of the time those people can't come up with good reason, or reasons that truly counter what the people who hate the endings have been saying. I think people have a right to their opinion, but at the same time if you liked these endings then i think there's honestly something wrong with you.

[MeepZero]

IMO, its fake accounts made by BioWare to try to swing public opinion in their favor.

[Gunslinger01101]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

CasbynessPC wrote...

For every one person who has started a thread saying "I finished the game, I think the endings are okay", there is then an entire 5-15 page conversation where dozens of other people respond negatively, either in an unhelpful insulting way or in a more helpful tone explaining what's wrong with the endings.

I think anyone who posts that they liked the endings should be immediately directed to the recent Angry Joe Top 10 article, plus the Starchild Youtube video and related Casey Hudson November twitter post. I really don't see how anyone can accept the current endings after reviewing those things, it looks like a pretty clear case of Devs running out of time and having to throw something together in desperation at the last moment, similar to what Obsidian had to do with KOTOR 2.

It's sad, but I still hope it can be fixed.

Actually, Indoctrination/Dream sequence isn't taken up as the major theme of the video at all. All he does is lay out Bioware quotes which are now proven to be lies, and tells us about the 10 plotholes created by the ending. Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched.

Hey, that is the video I have been linking, angry joe's 10 plotholes in the ending. :happy:

Yep, and yet every point in that is an argument for why THE WHOLE THING IS A DREAM STATE INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT. I would bet good money that most of the ending haters that agree with his angry joe fella have never seen the back end of a decent lit class.

Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched. His focus isn't on dream/indoctrination theory. Rather he points out the 10 plotholes the ending leaves us with, and gives us Bioware quotes before the release of the game which have proven false.

Please don't comment on ANYTHING you don't have direct knowledge of. Ever. I did, in fact, watch that video. What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that the REASON THE PLOT HOLES EXIST is because THEY WERE PUT THERE ON PURPOSE TO CLUE YOU INTO THE FACT THAT WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ISN'T REALITY. DId that get through?

[Deithmarez]

Because casual gamers that made bad decisions in high school are just now getting down to finishing it after dealing with kids eight months after the condom tore. Rationalization has deteriorated and thus comprehension is delayed.

Modifié par Deithmarez, 19 mars 2012 - 01:20 .

[Mathias]

double post

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 19 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[Soaringeagle78]

Why the f*** do people care so much about defending the ending? What do you have to gain? The reason I'm on here is so that I can hopefully help with convincing Bioware to at least offer an explanation as to wtf happened at the end. Maybe some people regard Mass Effect 3 as being philosophical, spiritual, etc., but I do not. Call me stupid or a troll, but I just want to have a few things explained to me about the ending. We all don't think the same way, but I can't live with the idea that I'm just supposed to guess what happened. My own thought about the ending is that unless Bioware gives a reasonable explanation, it does not make any sense whatsoever. I don't mind if people like the ending,(no matter how much I may disagree with them) but to go against a group that just wants to have things make a little sliver of sense is beyond me.

[Kraykan82]

VonVerrikan wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

More or less this. If you like the endings, you probably don't like the series. You're certainly not emotionally invested in the thing, either. 

Again with the sweeping statements. How the hell can you say this when you have no idea how invested people are.

My fianceé and I have been playing since ME1, have all the tie in novels, art books, collector's editions, T shirts.
We've played and re-played multiple times. WE LOVE the series, and LOVE the characters, and we both loved the ending.

Don't come here and tell me what I think.

[Gunslinger01101]

VonVerrikan wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

More or less this. If you like the endings, you probably don't like the series. You're certainly not emotionally invested in the thing, either. 

Complete generalization that is completely false. I probably played ME1 before you even knew it existed. Thanks, go away now.