1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Syrellaris]

shurikenmanta wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

Lunaluxlepus wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Seriously, you should delete all the 'stupid's in your thread.

You are making us look bad.

Care to explain how calling stupid people stupid makes "us" look bad? Stupid is just a synonym for ignorant, and if they don't realize all the plotholes the endings create than they are ignorant of the history of the mass effect universe. So I shouldn't call a spade a spade because it might offend someone?

Because tha majority of the people who don't like the ending actually don't believe the ending-likers are stupid. They respect the other person's right to like something even if they may not understand why.

Playing the 'everyone but me is an idiot because I'm right' card tends to turn people against you and confirm the worst generalisations.

I don't really know why you bother, the only real idiot in this thread is the OP him/herself.

[AlexXIV]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Well that reasoning has about as much holes as the ME3 ending. I guess you just like holes. That's why you like the ending.

I didn't say I liked the ending. I just think that most of the people hating it don't hate it because of plot holes or non-sensical endings.

People liked the ME1 ending, even though Sovey fainting at the end was cliche.
People liked the ME2 ending, even though it made even less sense that the ME3 ending.

But they could have "happy" outcomes.  So saying the likers are less thoughtful than the haters doesn't make sense.

I didn't really like KotOR ending neither, because it was cheesy. The light side ending anyway. I can't speak for everyone though and neither can you I think. But probably some of the 'ending sucks' crowd just want their happy ending. I don't and many more neither. And we have good points why the ending is bad. So happy or not doesn't matter. All Bioware needs to do is fix the holes and then only those complaints remain that it was not happier. And they honestly can be ignored.

[Gunslinger01101]

AlexXIV wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

Forget this. Explain to me why synthetics wipe out all life. Explain why Shepard gets to choose the endings and why those three choices are the only ones possible. And then explain why the endings fix the problem the AI wanted to solve to begin with. Easy as that.

You are either thick headed or too angry to think. the WHOLE POINT is that the line the kid gives you is B.S. The Reapers want you to NOT choose destroy, so the kid paints it as the worst option and tries to make the reapers sound a bit more altruisitc to push you over the edge. He even goes so far as to color destroy in renegade red for those of us that follow that sort of thing. So, yeah, it doesnt make sense. Your job was to SEE THROUGH THAT and choose destroy. Did you?

No, you don't get the point. Why does the AI even give Shepard a choice. Either that's the indoctrination theory or doesn't make sense. Shep was good as dead before the AI lifted him/her up. Why? Because it was lonely? Needed someone to chat with? Wanted some answers from a 30 year old N7 soldier that it could not find itself in a billion years? Yeah, it is easy to like if you don't ask any questions, that's already more than clear.

Nope, again,y ou aren't looking deep enough. I hate explaining this over and over, but here it is: Shepard's mind is still intact. I think it's been shown over and over that he has quite the iron will. Anderson was the embodiment of his good side. The AI has to give him a choice because its all in his mind and he still has the capacity to fight back. Bing Bang Boom.

[DranakShadow]

Deithmarez wrote...

Because casual gamers that made bad decisions in high school are just now getting down to finishing it after dealing with kids eight months after the condom tore.

Yes, because no one ever goes for a career, ever. Or goes to college and has a lot of papers to write. Nope. Doesn't happen.

Gamers are everywhere, and the average gamer is supposedly in their 30's.

[Mathias]

Some people also enjoy getting physically beaten and slapped around.

[Kraykan82]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

VonVerrikan wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

More or less this. If you like the endings, you probably don't like the series. You're certainly not emotionally invested in the thing, either. 

Complete generalization that is completely false. I probably played ME1 before you even knew it existed. Thanks, go away now.

Agreed. I had ME1 on launch day 2007. I fell in love with it then, and have never looked back

[ZzOoRrGg]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...


Look up Chekov's gun, you don't have that quite right...it's not a violation...its actually a culmination...chekov's gun is "if you see a gun on stage in the first act, it will be used in the third act, probably to kill someone." Anyway, all those things you state? Arguments for why it was a giant B.S. attempt to convince you to give up to indoctrination. Of course it makes no sense. you are supposed to SEE that and say, eff you reapers, i pick DESTROY!

No, the rule of Chekov's Gun is not a weakness of the story. However, violating it is. Drew Karpyshyn was alluding that he wanted to do something involving Dark Energy for ME3, but Big Mac kinda **** all over that notion, as well as Drew's vision of how it'd all conclude.
I also don't take a fan's theory as WHAT THE PLOT IS. Yes, I know about all that. I also think the patch to edit the codex entry on indoctrination to conform to that theory as lazy. It also still proves my point on the first argument of the whole plothole thing, you know, with the super god child even giving Shepard a choice.

[Claym0re]

If someone liked the ending then its good for him/her and I respect it. On the other hand I expect them to understand my feelings too.

So far my only problem with some of those "liking" the ending is that I havent read a single post by them which explains the MASSIVE plot holes we already gathered.

Yet many of them believe they have the right to call us "childish", and say stuff like "if you are clever you understand it" or "thats how life works bear with it".

[CasbynessPC]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

Diablos2525 wrote...

CasbynessPC wrote...

For every one person who has started a thread saying "I finished the game, I think the endings are okay", there is then an entire 5-15 page conversation where dozens of other people respond negatively, either in an unhelpful insulting way or in a more helpful tone explaining what's wrong with the endings.

I think anyone who posts that they liked the endings should be immediately directed to the recent Angry Joe Top 10 article, plus the Starchild Youtube video and related Casey Hudson November twitter post. I really don't see how anyone can accept the current endings after reviewing those things, it looks like a pretty clear case of Devs running out of time and having to throw something together in desperation at the last moment, similar to what Obsidian had to do with KOTOR 2.

It's sad, but I still hope it can be fixed.

Actually, Indoctrination/Dream sequence isn't taken up as the major theme of the video at all. All he does is lay out Bioware quotes which are now proven to be lies, and tells us about the 10 plotholes created by the ending. Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched.

Hey, that is the video I have been linking, angry joe's 10 plotholes in the ending. :happy:

Yep, and yet every point in that is an argument for why THE WHOLE THING IS A DREAM STATE INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT. I would bet good money that most of the ending haters that agree with his angry joe fella have never seen the back end of a decent lit class.

Please don't comment on a video you haven't watched. His focus isn't on dream/indoctrination theory. Rather he points out the 10 plotholes the ending leaves us with, and gives us Bioware quotes before the release of the game which have proven false.

I'm confused by both of your replies. I never once mentioned anything at all about indoctrination. I also don't know why someone is telling me not to comment on a video I haven't watched. I have watched the video.

Can someone explain to me how the comments made on my post relate to what I said? I am genuinely confused. I don't believe in the indoctrination theory, I think it might be one way to work around the current endings, but that's as far as I go on that.

[Rune-Chan]

Kraykan82 wrote...
Some of the best films / TV shows had obscure endings

1) Was the end of 2001 A Space Odysey truly explained on screen?
2) Was Rick Deckard really a replicant?
3) What happend to Starbuck at the end of Battlestar Galactica?
4) End of The Empire Strikes back
5) Ending of Vanilla Sky
6) Ending of Event Horizon

I can list more

If the director had said that the ending would provide closure to any of those films prior to release, then people would be correct to be annoyed.

What is annoying the player base is not the ending itself as such, but the fact that we were repeatedly and openly promised something every different.

There is also the factor that the player is Shepard, we see it through their eyes, we direct their decisions. With that in mind the ending does not make any sense, there lacks the fundemental choice of refusing to throw everything you have fought for out of the window because a machine/ghost child tells you that you have to.

Then there is the factor that all three endings provide the same outcome. Not only does that make little sense, it also makes the choice pointless.

Just like the DA2 ending, where no matter which side you picked (Templars or Mages) you still end up doing the exact same thing.

Claym0re wrote...

If someone liked the ending then its good for him/her and I respect it. On the other hand I expect them to understand my feelings too.

So far my only problem with some of those "liking" the ending is that I havent read a single post by them which explains the MASSIVE plot holes we already gathered.

So far all I have seen from those that like it are "I don't care if it has plot holes" or "it doesn't have plot holes, you just don't get it".

The former I can accept, as if they are happy with it how it is, then good for them, but the latter p*ss me off, because it is not even debatable that the ending has plot holes, unless you think what happened wasn't real (indoctrination/dream/hallucincation).

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 19 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[Gunslinger01101]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...


Look up Chekov's gun, you don't have that quite right...it's not a violation...its actually a culmination...chekov's gun is "if you see a gun on stage in the first act, it will be used in the third act, probably to kill someone." Anyway, all those things you state? Arguments for why it was a giant B.S. attempt to convince you to give up to indoctrination. Of course it makes no sense. you are supposed to SEE that and say, eff you reapers, i pick DESTROY!

No, the rule of Chekov's Gun is not a weakness of the story. However, violating it is. Drew Karpyshyn was alluding that he wanted to do something involving Dark Energy for ME3, but Big Mac kinda **** all over that notion, as well as Drew's vision of how it'd all conclude.
I also don't take a fan's theory as WHAT THE PLOT IS. Yes, I know about all that. I also think the patch to edit the codex entry on indoctrination to conform to that theory as lazy. It also still proves my point on the first argument of the whole plothole thing, you know, with the super god child even giving Shepard a choice.

I said it in a different response, but, the choice represents your ability to fight back. Your mind/will are still intact. We have seen that shepard has a pretty strong will.

[Kraykan82]

Claym0re wrote...

If someone liked the ending then its good for him/her and I respect it. On the other hand I expect them to understand my feelings too.

So far my only problem with some of those "liking" the ending is that I havent read a single post by them which explains the MASSIVE plot holes we already gathered.

Yet many of them believe they have the right to call us "childish", and say stuff like "if you are clever you understand it" or "thats how life works bear with it".

There are a ton of explanations floating around, the problem is the angry people dismiss them just as quickly as they appear, and berate the OP with insults and memes.

Trust me, there are some brilliant interpretations, this one is one of my favourites.

http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

[GhostlyMaiden]

VonVerrikan wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

More or less this. If you like the endings, you probably don't like the series. You're certainly not emotionally invested in the thing, either. 

Why is why I was screaming like a banshee when I thought Grunt was going to die and then screamed "YES!" when he came out alive.

Which is why I said "God forgive me, I have no choice." when Admiral Koris wanted me to save the civilians when I knew that if there were to be any chance at brokering peace between quarians and the geth, I would need him.

Why is why I squeaked when TIM shot Anderson at the end.

Emotional investment has nothing to do with hating the ending.

Oh and for the record, I've liked all the previous Final Fantasy endings. The only reason I didn't like the ending of Final Fantasy XIII-2 was because the whole point of the game was to save the timeline and it ended up getting screwed in the end anyway. I had already surmised a long time ago that the mass relays were probably going to be destroyed. My mission had never been to "Save the galaxy", or "Take back Earth." My mission was to "Stop the Reapers." That's why I don't hate the ending.

[SealKudos]

Lightice_av wrote...

I frankly continue to be surprised by all the vitriol and mad anger towards the endings, most which doesn't even seem to be directed at some of the problems they had, but the fact that they didn't include "lives happily ever after, world returns to status quo"-end.

People here have said again and again though - a lack of a happy ending is not the problem.  The problem is that there are illogical scenes in the ending, the choice boils down to "pick a color, any color", and totally disregards any choice we've made up to that point.

My personal issue is all of the above, but more importantly - I could've though of a far more fitting ending for Mass Effect 3.  Most people here could.  It just shocks me that someone who gets paid to write comes up with a blatant Deus Ex-themed rip-off, rather than something that takes all our choices into account.

[wicked_being]

Why do you have to argue? The people who liked the endings don't have to explain anything. Maybe for them their Shepards got the closure regardless of the BS endings. My Shepard never did, I don't like the endings. Simple as that.Though of course I'd appreciate it if they share their thoughts.

Modifié par wicked_being, 19 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[UKJackMan]

I wish you could see it the way I do Shepard its so perfect.

To some the ones who finished the game first the line between fact and fiction is wonderfully blurred. Others will never see it.

[Torrible]

Syrellaris wrote...


I don't really know why you bother, the only real idiot in this thread is the OP him/herself.

This. I find it ironic that people who come up with "I'm right, you are stupid. My opinion = fact." arguments are calling other people stupid.

Modifié par Torrible, 19 mars 2012 - 01:26 .

[CombustiblePanda]

I swear if I read one more post about how the only reason we don't like the ending is because it isn't "happy" I'm going to explode.

[Moondoggie]

Diablos2525 wrote...


I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Okay this is just ridiculous. So anyone who does not agree with your opinions is either stupid or not a true fan?

Read what you say before you post. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and freedom of speech. Just because they don't agree with you does not make them stupid or less of a fan than you.

[AlexXIV]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kraykan82 wrote...

Also, this was an excellent interpretation of the endings events. I recommend you read it.
http://social.biowar.../index/10237724

Forget this. Explain to me why synthetics wipe out all life. Explain why Shepard gets to choose the endings and why those three choices are the only ones possible. And then explain why the endings fix the problem the AI wanted to solve to begin with. Easy as that.

You are either thick headed or too angry to think. the WHOLE POINT is that the line the kid gives you is B.S. The Reapers want you to NOT choose destroy, so the kid paints it as the worst option and tries to make the reapers sound a bit more altruisitc to push you over the edge. He even goes so far as to color destroy in renegade red for those of us that follow that sort of thing. So, yeah, it doesnt make sense. Your job was to SEE THROUGH THAT and choose destroy. Did you?

No, you don't get the point. Why does the AI even give Shepard a choice. Either that's the indoctrination theory or doesn't make sense. Shep was good as dead before the AI lifted him/her up. Why? Because it was lonely? Needed someone to chat with? Wanted some answers from a 30 year old N7 soldier that it could not find itself in a billion years? Yeah, it is easy to like if you don't ask any questions, that's already more than clear.

Nope, again,y ou aren't looking deep enough. I hate explaining this over and over, but here it is: Shepard's mind is still intact. I think it's been shown over and over that he has quite the iron will. Anderson was the embodiment of his good side. The AI has to give him a choice because its all in his mind and he still has the capacity to fight back. Bing Bang Boom.

What? Fight back? You make no sense. How was Shepard supposed to kill the AI thing? Or force it anyway? Sorry man but it is not all in Shepard's head, it is all in your head. What you say you just made up to distract yourself from the terrible ending. Also answer me how any ending changes anything in the long run. No matter what you choose, synthetics will either wipe out all organics, or they will build Reapers again and start new cycles.

[Mitra]

vertigo72 wrote...

Why I like the endings? Because they are good. You just have to think a little bit to see a whole picture but when you did everything makes sense.

People thought that ME is a space soap opera with some sci-fi, turns out it's a hard sci-fi with some space soap opera. That hurts.

50 millions years old Reapers don't care about your character, your choices and if you are paragon or renegade. "Oh, I see that you helped Gianna Parisini and kicked that BlueSun out of the window, so here a special (happy) ending for you". He even don't know about this stuff. All that matters it that you made it to the Citadel. They always said that Reapers are invincible? They are, no plot-holes here. It's all very logical. Maybe sad, but logical.

Your reward is not a happy retirement on a beach and lot a blue children. Your reward is to decide the future of all life in the Galaxy. That's pretty big reward in my opinion.

Well, I'm happy that you told us what you think, and I thank you for that, but I still disagree with you completely. Well, my opinion is that all ME universe is something else, it's not all about the Reapers and only the reapers and you got it somehow obscure to get to thinking like you stated above. I'm so sorry but, you just didn't get it right I think. Well, you are right in your own mind and that's ok, but reality is something different.
Your pretty big reward at the end is useless because it is not your option and your decision to do anything, it's that child's, not yours. You are just stucked there on the Citadel and you have to pick something that is against all ever known to ME franchise and Shepard him/herself.
Do you know what is the leading feeling thru all ME story? HOPE. CHOICES. FRIENDSHIP. CHANCE FOR PEACE. LOVE... And I could go on and on and on forever. It's a place where you can go and forget about how real life is wild and tough, hard to live (at least for me, hey, but I'm an optimist!) and put yourself in the role of someone who can really make a difference somewhere (in this case video game) and give you at least smile on your face if nothing else (but I believe it gives you even more, at least to a lot of us others, since you see it in the different way than we do).
I had a ****y life, with lot of losses, filled with pain and tears, loneliness and feeling of guilt and yes, no matter how hard you try, you can't save everything and everyone, I felt that on my own skin and I feel it even now and that will never change for the rest of my days no matter how hard I fight against it. It's just life. It is hard enough, but I had found some ways to defeat the death of "me" and found a little happiness here and there that changed me into a person that I am now. Those little things are good, keeps you going on. And one of them is gaming. I completely loose myself in games, it helps for few hours and puts smile on my face. I even met a lot of good people by playing games and that is also a beautiful experience too...

OK, I'll stop now. I'm just so sorry for your obscureness. I hope that you really don't see things as that in your real life, my friend. I wish you all the best sincerely.

[Claym0re]

CombustiblePanda wrote... I swear if I read one more post about how the only reason we don't like the ending is because it isn't "happy" I'm going to explode.

Amen.

[Gunslinger01101]

UKJackMan wrote...

I wish you could see it the way I do Shepard its so perfect.

To some the ones who finished the game first the line between fact and fiction is wonderfully blurred. Others will never see it.

I try to make them see....but they don't. Oh well! I enjoyed it! To them I say *Neener, neener!*

[Madmoe77]

All of this reminds me of something quite funny.

When I was studying painting and taking a course in art/critique and theory there was an artist making waves by giving himself enemas with paint and while on stage releasing said paint onto canvas. People paid upwards of 10K for his work. But the trend died quickly. The debate was why was it even received as art? And why had the initial reaction faded so quickly?

The conclusion was a no brainer really. The initial shock was juxtaposed with the argument of bravery. People loaded the artist's work with their own interpretations never considering the man was just s******g on canvas. All of those people championing his cause had no reason for it other than trying to justify purpose in the event. He s**t on their ideals. He s**t on their perceptions. He literally s**t on the idea of respect to the genre and the entirety of the viewership he couldn't have otherwise established without the initial reaction of s******g on a canvas in front of a live audience.

Sometimes people find themselves enjoying s**t for the sake of enjoying it.

<_<

Modifié par Madmoe77, 19 mars 2012 - 01:33 .

[Skirlasvoud]

Double post

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 19 mars 2012 - 01:29 .