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Mark Darrah on the conclusion of Dragon Age II


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#2676
Maria Caliban

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LookingGlass93 wrote...

Here's my feedback on what I'd like to see in the next Dragon Age game - let the player avoid bad outcomes.


In DA2 I was incredibly frustrated that no matter what I did certain plot enforced failures were set in stone. I could never save Leandra, stop Anders or decide which sibling died in the beginning. For that reason those situations rang completely hollow for me. I felt nothing except anger at the game when those scenes occured. In contrast scenes like Isabella returning at the end of Act 2 or stopping Anders from killing the girl in his Act 2 quest not only gave me a sense of satisfaction, they also made me care about the content of those scenes.


I have no problem with some bad outcomes being unaviodable. I think they need to be used sparingly and with... a grasp of player psychology in mind.

I knew the moment I saw Duncan and Mama Hawke that they were dead NPCs walking, and I'm okay with them doing this.

At the same time, Act III basically gave us an impossible goal. I think the average player would have liked to make peace between the mages of Kirkwall and the Templars, and that the game was pushing us into the role of peacekeeper. I wonder how the ending would have been received if Hawke's goal for Act 3 was explicitly something else and mage/templar conflict was simply a giant obstacle that kept on growing and tossing more wrenches in Hawke's plans.

#2677
Rorschachinstein

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zombifiers wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

zombifiers wrote...

Wow, this thread is big! Apologies if any of my input's already been mentioned. I'm not sure I have it in me to go back and reread the whole thing.

My biggest request in this new game, more than anything else in the world, is please please please please please please please no more mandatory sidequests like in Dragon Age 2. I hate doing sidequests. I really hate them, and I never do them in any game ever, and Dragon Age is no exception. To find that pretty much the entire first act of DA2 was nothing but sidequests that were mandatory was awful. It was so grueling to get through, and if I hadn't been reassured by friends that the whole game wasn't like that, I would've stopped playing and returned it on the spot. Please put the sidequests back on the side where they belong.



I don't remember there being a manditory side quest not relevant to the story?


Seriously? The entire first act was just mini quests to farm gold. Sure, a few of them were relevant (like the one that led you to the Arishok the first time and whatnot), but for the most part, it was just meaningless grinding.


Okay, I'll give you that making us collect 50 gold was a bit ludacris

#2678
ianvillan

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BomimoDK wrote...

Mark Darrah wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Make drops **count**. I got tired of getting 3X damage rings or 4X fire rings.

Or create a crazy and eccentric NPC character where we can exchange these trash items for something more valuable


So either:
* Make loot be consistently good
OR
* Let me juice bad loot to GET something good?

Cespenar?


Yes just like Cromwell You can create the hammer of the thunderbolts out of 3 different items, but it takes up two strength enhanceing items you may want to use on other characters.

#2679
Flurdt Vash

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Mark Darrah wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Please do something like the Black Emporium again.

I would also like to see perhaps some quests offered with rewards being armor or weapon upgrades.

Maybe its a franchise...Image IPB


LOL Black Emporium Franchises out threw the sewers of Thedas. Ohhhh that Tranquil from Wonders of Thedas could be the shop keeper in Tevinter :wizard:  Im joking of course .... but the idea isnt with out its charm.

#2680
Bostur

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Thanks everyone for the interesting discussions. :-)

PixyMisa wrote...

John Epler wrote...
What I'm hearing is that you want decisions with consequences that, even if they're negative, are negative in a narratively satisfying fashion. Am I right?

Yes, very much so.  We need to be able to fail in ways short of dying outright.  Winning the final battle has far more impact if you're also mourning lost chances and fallen comrades.


The recent subject of limited failure is one I find very interesting. When games allow me to fail, and give me the tools to deal with it, this often results in very satisfying experiences. This can be handled through narrative as John hints at, but there are also gameplay opportunities. Tweaking encounters based on past performance is one option. Fixing a sword that was cursed because of a narrative twist could be another.

To avoid reloading issues I think it is important that the player get used to the idea that minor failures are normal, or even inevitable in the long run. If we get used to the idea that a non-perfect playthrough can have its own unique fun and challenges this may counter reloading habits.

#2681
Flurdt Vash

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John Epler wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Malakar1 wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Back to "making" a weapon legendary-

Lionhead mucked it up in Fable III.

They said in development that we were gonna "make weapons legendary", but in the end, all that happened was they gave us weapons that were already legendary, and we barely changed them as we used them.

If Bioware is to implement a way to make a basic weapon something greater both in power and in PLOT, they need to go into Fable III and do the complete OPPOSITE of that.


I'm not a fan of making my own weapons. One of my favorite parts about Origins was finding awesome weapons/armor through my travels. If it's similar to how it was in Awakening(collecting pieces for Wade to make it), I'd be all for it.


The ability to do it doesn't mean you absolutely have to do it. In some guess I had the ability too but never did for some reason.


If I can make a weapon better than any I could find within the game then I'd make it. Which is why I'd rather find one through a quest because it'd be like a reward. 


A question regarding that, then - what if making it better required you to spend resources that could instead be allocated elsewhere? I think the biggest reason why some titles succeed on this front is that they give consequences to improving your weapon. Sure, you may have an amazing weapon, but it's correspondingly difficult to take a hit, as you never really focused too much on your armour.

That's just an example, mind - there are other consequences that can come up, especially in a more narrative-focused RPG.


Thats a GOOD point ... kinda like the Staff Wynn has for a little while in "Asunder" (LOVED the book by the way :wizard:), Narrative consequences like NPC # 1 or Templar Companion *Random* doesnt like your spooky Blood Magic artifiacte no matter how many points of health in converts :police: ..... as an example of course . I like this:wub:

Modifié par Flurdt07, 21 mars 2012 - 08:55 .


#2682
Melca36

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Like Magistrates Orders for example...We saw what happened if we saved Lia and the Magistrate threatened Hawke for killing his son. It would have been nice to have random encounters of assassins hired by the Magistrate or a way to turn in him for his corruption.

#2683
Torhagen

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Over past couple of years I felt like that by exploring other options Bioware forgot where they came from !
Exploring new ideas is awesome and i wouldnt expect anything else from my (former-)Favourite Developer dont get me wrong here
DAII was pretty much doomed from the beginning because it was launched as Sequel and people expected a Game like DA:O not a (cant summarize it better) Hack and Slay style game
The quoted post sums up my feeling (with minor adjustment )
Personally i believe Bioware should have accepted MS and not EA


Boudicia wrote...

Unlike many, I liked Dragon Age II. But Origins was for me, the superior game.

Dragon Age II Likes


The companions; you guys did once again a great job fleshing out them
and their motivations, in fact, I liked the idea of their “loyalty”
quests
•Hawke's relationship with her mother, sister, uncle, etc was deep and moving
• Humor and party relationships more fun
• My avatar was voiced; that did seem to personalize Hawke a bit.

Dragon Age II Dislikes
• Repeat dungeons

The passage of time felt forced; it seemed as if the writers said we
need to have Hawke’s story fit over a decade since a master plan for
Thedas dictates it be so
• I never felt as if Hawke was my
character in the sense I felt my human noble, city elf etc were in
Origins. I think it’s because I felt forced into some choices,
especially at the end. So my engagement in the story was lessened
• Hated what you did to the elves; they look horrible (sorry Mr. Gaider, but in my opinion they did)
• Hated the ending
• Hated being stuck with one race and one background
• Hated the treasure and equipment; upgrades were few and far between;
• Party members were stuck with whatever armour developers decided they needed
• No arch nemesis; no real common enemy (unless you count the qunari and that was Act II)

I
feel like with Dragon Age II you guys tried to broaden your audience
and reach out to the masses that don’t enjoy RPG elements and so you
took away the RPG elements. But I think by doing so, you ended up
alienating your core audience. Don’t get me wrong, DAII for me was not a
bad game. And it holds its own against other developers’ games
extremely well. But, for Bioware, I think it wasn’t as good as it could
have been.

To be honest, I worry about two things. I worry
that you guys, either from pressure from EA for whatever reason, have or
will sacrifice what you were in order to reach the masses. And, I
worry that somehow your involvement with telling a story, and making it
compelling, and far reaching with deep themes and conflicts, will lead
you to make it too cinematic. And that takes away from the player’s
level of identification with their avatar. Sure, often cinematics can
convey emotion, story etc. more quickly than a wall of text can. And
unfortunately there is a generation that wants everything given to them
in soundbites, quick tweet like blurbs etc. But for some reason, it
ends up being too artificial for an rpg game.

I am sad Hawke’s
story won’t have closure. And I am very sad there will not be an
expansion; but here’s hoping the next game will combine what was great
in DAII and Origins and become the best of the series. Just please, no
more mage / templar controversy as main conflict; give me an arch
nemesis.

Good Luck!


I know Mass Effect is another franchise and Dev team.
Still i think it had a heavy impact on DA2's drastic change like the one seen from Mass Effect1 to Mass Effect2 
I hope that the Dragon age devs will not just black out that the first part of the series.

P.S I would like to say thanks for this open letter

Modifié par Torhagen, 21 mars 2012 - 08:58 .


#2684
Chibi Elemental

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yay can't wait for da3!

#2685
JediHealerCosmin

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I seriously have no ideea where to begin, but I will try to make my recomendations as simple as possible.
Here we go:


- First and foremost, do not rush the making of the game. A few more months of polish can go a long way than trying to release it quick and easy;

- More memorable moments. For example: in DAO we had the Leliana Song scene which actually caught people off guard as a heartwarming moment;

- Keep Inon Zur and Aubrey Ashburn for the soundtrack, although ask them to work a little better when it comes to boss battle themes;

- Boss fights in general shouldn't take so much time. In DAO they were somewhat short, but at a higher difficulty in DA2, they were way longer than necesarry. They should also be more strategic, depend on possition, the ability to learn from mistakes and so on. On a further note, the companion AI needs better adjustments (the Corypheus encounter is a prime example in which the fight can be ruined because our companions fail to initiate comands).

- the DA2 story had a lot of potential, but wasn't executed properly. If the action must take place within a single zone, make sure said zone reflects change and the passing of time better;

- bring back the isometric (not sure if spelled corectly) camera. This isn't an action series, it's an RPG, and the strategic aspect was lowered in quality due to this change in DA2;

- no more rehash of the same environments. Please work on this, it's a sign of laziness and can bore the player to great extent;

- please reconsider a different direction in the art design, graphics and stop reusing the same sets of armor;

- no more wave fights...

- a better choice of romance options and don't be afraid to make the development more personal/romantic/touching;

- if you guys desire to make a more personal story, make it with a clear goal, a villain, a sense of loss, don't be afraid to add more epic moments like in DAO;

- last but not least, make Dragon Age its own series, without fear of not being able to satisfy everyone. Make sure it leaves it's own mark on gaming.

Good luck, and may the Maker watch over you.

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 21 mars 2012 - 08:54 .


#2686
Kodeir

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This is a great thread. Even it was very difficult for me to read all messages, I did it and now I'm ready to add my ideas. I wish not to ruin them with my English.

So, there are some things that I want to see in future Bioware games, especially in Dragon Age series:

1. Better PS3 support.
When DAO came out and I played it on my PC, I was so excited that when my wife gift me a PS3 I bought Ultimate Edition of DAO for it too. And I was so disappointed with big lags and low graphics. Even my old PC gives me better graphics then PS3 version.
Then demo of DA2 came out. I compare PC and PS3 and console version was the worst again. I saw the release verison and it's still the same (I haven't buy full version of DA2 for PS3 yet cause I was waiting for last DLC... ok, sadly now it's time to buy it).
The story repeats for ME3. Even games don't have a real bad graphics, there is some problems with cut-scenes - real big lags with low fps.

I know that PS3 version is not sold by millions of copies. I know that this is hard to programming this damn Cell if you are not the first party company for Sony. But please, do a favor for your PS3 fans, let the PS3 version be shine and bright with top HD textures. Dragon Age is not an exclusive game for PS3 and my request sounds more like a dream, but pretty please!!

2. More care for translation.

I live in Russia and I like to play videogames with original voices and russian subtitles. It was a total mess with DA: O. I think russian version of DAO wasn't properly tested, because there were obvious bugs, e.g. in one conversation during the game one character said smth like 'So, my honored hero, lets ... khm.. ehm... emmm... Ok, let's start once more. So, my honored hero...'. Ok, we can live with some funny bugs. But there were more serious mistakes.
For example, 'reaver' was translated like 'ripper'. 'Champion' was translated like vityaz: these words have much in common, except for the background. In Russian language the word 'vityaz' has strong association with folklore and early history of Russia, not with the fantasy worlds. It has clear images, like this one and another one.

Another example: in the beggining of ME3, Shepard says: 'Sound important'. Do you know how it was translated? Like 'Sound dangerous'. WHY? HOW? The russian subtitles of ME3 is a really bad thing.
The problem with bad translaion is that people who didn't know English get wrong ideas about the main concept of the game.

And another one thing with translation. DAO was fully localized. When it showed bad sales in Russia, work on localization was stopped. Some DLC's were including russian subtitles, but the last ones didn't have them. It was a complete disaster for console owners (you could download fan's translation for PC but not for consoles). It was not a right thing for russian fans. Almost all of them were really p**** off with this situation.

So, the question is - do you have translators and QA localization testers directly in your team or there are some folks in global EA who are responsible for translation of many games? In first case I have now ideas why such things happen - all this bugs, mistakes, misunderstoods and so on.

I know that sales of DA in Russia are not big (especially for PS3), but they wan't grow up with such things.
I would apply for QA localization tester position at Bioware if it shown up on carees site - though my English is not really fluence, my translation skills from EN to RU is good (from RU to EN is less good). But I saw only qa tester on contract and qa lead for which I don't have enough experience yet. I really want to help my beloved game company with translation!

3. Improve location design
I love DAO and I love DA2 - except for this boring identical locations. There were many words on that, so I won't speak anything else. I'm sure you will do right with next thing.

Modifié par prostoS, 21 mars 2012 - 09:37 .


#2687
Torhagen

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oh and NO multiplayer just to throw it in there

#2688
destiny0

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Wondering wheter compromise is always the best choise....

I'll be very disappointed will DA3 not reach again DAO level.

All Dragon Age world success (games, book, merchandise, etc... ) is really due to DAO, so please start from it.
A your policy was not to focus on characters, but to develop the story across this dragon age... please I really need you to create an emotionally charged history, something like Ostagar battle or the blight. Yes I want to cry again!

The champions of Kirkwall who descovers some treasure in the deep road and defeat the Kunari, doesn't compare to the hero of Ferelden that keep all races togheter to save the whole world from corruption!

Maybe because a war between mages and templar, is really what we can already find around the real world.
People fighting each other because of human weaknesses... much more better to fall in a world where people fight togheter agains evil.... 

Sorry for beeing such a dreamer.


John Epler wrote...

DAYtheELF wrote...

PS, John, the fact that you and so many BioWare people are even here and reading all of this and replying and whatnot makes me love you all so much more than I already did. <3 You don't HAVE to do this, yet you do. Thank you!


We do it because we really are passionate about what we do. And, at the end of the day, we want to make a game that our fans want to play. There's no deliberate 'muhaha - this will really stick it to INSERT FAN SEGMENT X!' in our plans. It's true that, sometimes, we have to make decisions that not everyone loves. That's something we have to live with, because there are some things that are mutually exclusive. And that's not saying we won't make mistakes - we have in the past, and we no doubt will in the future. But talking to you guys - well, that helps us see where there's consensus, and, in places where there are a dozen different opinions, we can start talking amongst ourselves about ways to compromise without diluting vision.

You guys are great. Being able to rationally and civilly discuss things with a fanbase isn't necessarily something every developer has, so we're happy we can do it.



#2689
HanErlik

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Could it be possible to split the Dragon Age franchise into two series? Treyarch and Infinitiy Ward are doing different CoD games.

One developer team (includes veterans of BG and NWN series) makes Dragon Age Origins series, games for old school RPG fans with tactical combat, silent pc, lots of dialogues etc. and primarly developed for PC, while another team makes another series for DA:2 adorers.

I really wonder this since I don't see any hope for finding a middle ground for two different fanbases.

Modifié par HanErlik, 21 mars 2012 - 09:11 .


#2690
Cyr8

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A few things on what I would like:

- Combat was good in DAII and a general improvement, but please take out the showboating. Namely, unneeded baton twirling by the mage, circus acrobat jumping by the rogue, exploding enemies, tone down on the teleportation of the rogue, nix the wave of enemies

-improve atmostphere. Can we please see people doing things other than standing around waiting to give you a quest? You don't have to give them complex routines but can we have NPCs that do stuff? Even the ones that don't give quests should have the same attention spent on them

- more variety of environments. Nuff said.

That's all I can think off for now.

#2691
empetus

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HansErlik makes a good point that was echoed by many others earlier in the thread, and I think its a very important choice for Bioware to make.

Go for one core audience or the other full bore, don't water things down in a wishy-washy compromise that in the end will please no one.

Either listen to those who loved Dragon Age 2, and make Dragon Age 3 according to their wishes - forget about people like me and others who want the classic old school rpg again, we will have plenty of games to play because there is a rpg renaissance taking place on the indie and kickstarter scene right now, so we will be taken care of in our gaming preferences.

Instead, make the arcade action combat flashier, faster, and more colorful, and make the anime influence and colorful art style even more over the top in the next game, and so on. Make the game almost totally consolfied, etc. Whatever those who loved Dragon Age 2 are saying they want and who liked that game much better than Origins.

An earlier poster talked about how people in my camp will not settle for compromises, and they were right. If I hear that the combat is not back to the Origins style, but other compromises were made in order to appeal to gamers like me, I still won't buy the game honestly.

It sounds like you guys don't want to make a game in the Origins style again for DA 3, but want to pick bits and pieces from it instead, but the overall focus will be Dragon Age 2 style.

And maybe after that start a new series that is based on your classic rpg style, and have two distinctly separate gaming series for the two camps - classic rpg Bioware game style, and Dragon Age 2 game style. Making a weak compromise game won't work in my opinion, the camps are way too far apart.

Modifié par empetus, 21 mars 2012 - 09:53 .


#2692
HanErlik

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empetus wrote...

An earlier poster talked about how people in my camp will not settle for compromises, and they were right. If I hear that the combat is not back to the Origins style, but other compromises were made in order to appeal to gamers like me, I still won't buy the game honestly.

It sounds like you guys don't want to make a game in the Origins style again for DA 3, but want to pick bits and pieces from it instead, but the overall focus will be Dragon Age 2 style.

And maybe after that start a new series that is based on your cassic rpg style, and have two distinctly separate gaming series for the two camps - classic rpg Bioware game style, and Dragon Age 2 game style. Making a weak compromise game won't work in my opinion, the camps are way too far apart.


I agree with you. I won't buy DA3 if it contains any major thing (Voiced PC, Wave Combat, Dialogue Wheel etc.) from DA2. Bu if they make a decent a la DA:O RPG (Kickstarter projects are amazing but we still need AAA RPGs) beside a fine action RPG sequel of DA:2 (I like H&S RPGs but I find DA2 a failure in this aspect too), I can buy both two games.

#2693
The Elder King

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HanErlik wrote...

empetus wrote...

An earlier poster talked about how people in my camp will not settle for compromises, and they were right. If I hear that the combat is not back to the Origins style, but other compromises were made in order to appeal to gamers like me, I still won't buy the game honestly.

It sounds like you guys don't want to make a game in the Origins style again for DA 3, but want to pick bits and pieces from it instead, but the overall focus will be Dragon Age 2 style.

And maybe after that start a new series that is based on your cassic rpg style, and have two distinctly separate gaming series for the two camps - classic rpg Bioware game style, and Dragon Age 2 game style. Making a weak compromise game won't work in my opinion, the camps are way too far apart.


I agree with you. I won't buy DA3 if it contains any major thing (Voiced PC, Wave Combat, Dialogue Wheel etc.) from DA2. Bu if they make a decent a la DA:O RPG (Kickstarter projects are amazing but we still need AAA RPGs) beside a fine action RPG sequel of DA:2 (I like H&S RPGs but I find DA2 a failure in this aspect too), I can buy both two games.


They already confirmed in this very thread that there'll be a voiced PC again, and the dialogue wheel will probably be present, though maybe with some change.
About your post of two different projects, I don't think it's possible. The DA team is probably not big enough to be split in two different projects (otherwise they wouldn't cut off the expansion).

#2694
Gealunn

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 DA:O likes:
• Origins! Which allow to play the game 6 times with a new surprising opening.
• The tough decisions we had to make: dealing with Connor, the Anvil, the werewolves, the King of Orzammar, the King of Ferelden, Loghain (Damn, THAT was something when Alistair left because I spared him), Morrigan's ritual, etc.
• Challenging combats, difficult but never impossible.
• Specializations that are unlocked by specific events. It's roleplay and it's great. You saved Redcliff? You are now allowed to be a Champion!
• The realistic and classical heroic-fantasy design.
• The various areas.

DA:O dislikes:
• More difficult to run on my PC than DAII.

DAII likes:
• The end with the Chantry and Anders. It was unexpected to me and I liked it.
• Easier to run on my PC than DA:O.
• Enjoyable combats.

DAII dislikes:
• The combat against the Arishok which was very monotonous.
• The final combat against the Gate Guardians. Because it reminded me Transformers/Goldorak and it really killed the immersion.
• No friendly fire except in Nightmare difficulty. I think its unrealistic not too have FF and I like to be able to play with it with several difficulty mode to make the challenge more and more difficult as I play the game again.
• The unconsistent characters. Like Orsino (WhyTF do you turn mad!?) Or the mage girl that you save in Act I and who tries to kill you and an ostage in Act III. Reason? She was an abomination of course.
• The irrealistic size of the weapons and combat animation.

Thanks for reading and for the games.

Modifié par Gealunn, 21 mars 2012 - 10:01 .


#2695
Fredward

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 Right then. I'm not usually one to contribute to this kinda thing but I'm bored so why not?

Someone mentioned a more open world, this isn't a bad idea but for all that is decent and good DO NOT make an completely open world like Skyrim. What I like about Bioware's games is that whatever else it is it's very detailed, there's history and story behind everything and every place. It's not something I think can be kept if the world was as huge as Skyrim. Someone also mentioned the maps on Mark of the Assassin which would be a good choice, those were good maps without sacrificing any depth I feel. 

Combat I liked mostly, loved the pace. Didn't like the exploding body parts. Really, I know the gore was popular in Origins but really. It wasn't even good explosions. It was like breaking up one of those action figures and emptying a bottle of ketchup. Waves also sucked. But other than that I really liked it, ESPECIALLY my rogue being a total ninjaface. 

OH! And keep the different finishing cutscenes for the different classes, that was really nice. In fact put more in. What I mean is not just different cutscences for different classes when finsihing a boss, but with dealing with stuff too. Like stopping a crowd chasing you a mage can make you invisible, or a warrior bellows or looks muscly or whatever warriors actually do and a rogue throws like a smokescreen or shizz like that. AND more class specific badass moments. One of my favourite times in DA2 was Hawke chucking the knife into slaver's neck who was holding Feynriel like a BOSS. But Feynriel's dialogue didn't even change which annoyed me btw. 

The enviroments sucked. And not just because they were used over and over again but because they completely lacked the atmosphere of Origins. The expansion packs were a bit better in this regard, especially the tower where Corypheus was and the whole Mark of the Assassin one really. Haha, the dialogue in that was hilarious btw, I loved it. "If I die tell them I died in Chateau Haine!!!!" I lawled. Oh and "I wanted to tell him he couldn't match your awesomeness but I thought that would be petty." -cough- Anyway yeah. Enviroment. Atmosphere. Depth. 

Unlike many I don't actually hate the elf redesign. If you look at Fenris and Merill, and Marethari (to an extent) they don't look that bad, I could see where you guys were going. But yes the other elves kinda reminded me of a giant hand just kinda... mushing their faces. Elves are supposed to be attractive to humans right? Merill was adorable and Fenris was handsome I suppose even though he had like giant pores but the others were not. Maybe not a retcon just more detail in the elf faces. 

Uhm what else. Oh right armor. I actually didn't mind not having to change the companions armor. But I was dissapointed that they stayed the same through the WHOLE GAME unless you romanced them... btw black looks awful on Anders, just saying. I can remember I had just gotten my first upgrade for Aveline's armor somewhere at the end of Act 1 and then when I saw her in Act 2 I was like "OH COOL THERE ARMOR ACTUALLY CHANGES WHEN YOU GET THEM UPGRADES!!!!!!" so then I totally wanted to get all the upgrades and I didn't even care about getting them before. Imagine my dissapointment when I realized it was just cuz she got a promotion. =] 
So keep the static armor, it does give the characters more uhm... character but let it evolve some. 

If you guys drop the rival/friendship bar I will never forgive you. Ever. It's brilliant. It does however, require some refining. Being rivals did NOT give me the impression of "I disagree with you but I respect you" or whatever. It gave me the impression of dislike, sometimes intense dislike. Now this would be okay if the game were Origins, cuz then there was a greater good to fight for, there was a viable reason for personal dislike to be set aside. Not so in 2. I could not fathom why Aveline kept doing whatever my mischievous little Hawke wanted when she honestly and actively seemed to DISLIKE/hate her. Especially not at the end. That made less than no sense. A perfect example of a RIVALRY to me was Aveline and Isabela. They fought, they argued, they bickered but I got the impression that they really did care for each other. That was nice. I could see Aveline venturing into the moral grey areas for Isabela but not for my Hawke. Of course this does make stuff difficult doesn't it? What if you really DO dislike a character and want them to know it? Is there gonna be an invisible third bar where douchery gets measured? I dunno. Good luck with it though! 

On companions. I can't really say much here. Bioware makes the deepest, best written, emotionally impactive (that's not a word) characters I have EVER seen in ANY video games EVER. Better than some books even, on par with most anyway. The only thing I can say is MOAR! MOAR! MOAR! I missed speaking to my companions whenever I wanted. They didn't have enough to say ever either. The gifts were nice though, less but deeper. I liked it. The quests centering on them was nice, could use work in some places but nice. Something that irked me was the fact that you had a voiced protagonist but NEVER participating in party banter. I mean those are like the best dialogues in the game! Again this was adressed somewhat in the expansions but still. If you're worried about people saying "MY CHARACTER WOULD NEVER SAY THAT!!!!!" tell them to whine moar. The party banter is hardly the deepest or most significant talks in the game but it DOES let you feel closer to the characters and the diplomatic/sarcastic/aggresive roles really helped keep Hakwe IC. But yeah you guys can't go wrong with just adding more to the companions really. You've yet to make a character I really dislike (except when it was the point :P) except Sebastian... man I HATED that guy's FACE! Never was I more dissapointed when the STABSTABSTABSTABSTABSTAB button didn't appear when he abandoned me for not killing Andy. Srsly.

I want a pet. The dog in 2 wasn't that bad but he wasn't all that good either. Also, I want it to be a cat. There is not enough felines in games. Really people dogs are not all that. Not a baby dragon cuz that would be lame and not a pet griffin because they are DEAD and they should stay dead.

Romance is cool I have nothing to add there. Origins was better than 2 though, gotta say that. A nice tragic (har har oxymoron) romance would be nice. I think Anders' romance was steering towards that but obviously we won't be seeing the end of that. Morrigan's romance was pretty good but I mean more tragic. As in final stand and dying in each other's arms or some such. I realize I'm a somewhat limited market so I'm not expecting this but it's nice to dream sometimes. Oh and the sex scenes, are we allowed to say sex on the forum? I wonder sometimes... Look the game is for 18 year olds, if you can watch someone explode like a popped zit you can watch the see an exposed female midriff without your head exploding. Really. See Mass Effect 1 for the perfect example of a sex scene without being vulgar. 

Yah know I always thought the importing system would implode some time. I think a interview at the beginning would actually not be a bad idea, maybe a little immersion killing but not excsively so. I'll miss the little decisions though. Maybe a interview type thing for the big decisions and then save file transfer for the little stuff? What are you guys gonna do with the God Baby? That seems like a tricky one. Most people seem to think that he/she/it will play an important role... but what if about the players who didn't sleep with Morry? A deux ex machina I suppose... Because IF the God Baby plays an important role then it just doesn't seem feesable to split the storyline down two roads... Lulz suddenly I'm glad I don't work for Bioware.

Some people have said they want a nice obvious villian. This is lame. There are no ~le gasp~ moments at all. I would love a mysterious puppet master type figure for a change. But NOT one that just falls out of the heavens, one that when you finally found out you go like "DAMN I SHOULD'VE KNOWN!!!!!". Also it should be a femme fatale. Because that's a stereotype that doesn't get implemented NEARLY enough in my opinion. Really, I'm over giant lizards and post-menopausal crazyfaces. Also it doesn't HAVE to be some ancient evil or something, sometimes people are mean. True story.

Oh and I'm all for history driven arms and armor. Just make sure the history is really cool. 

Oh and bringing back the origins... I wouldn't mind. But don't feel compelled to make dozens. I get overwhelmed by a lot of choices. XD
But really I think a human origin, an elf origin and then a third one qunari or dwarf probably, personally I could live without ever playing a dwarf and I think being a qunari and having a romance with a human would be the weirdest thing ever. I'm reminded of those Morrigan/Sten talks suddenly... ANYWAY. Again less is more, if you only made three origins but made them GOOD ones then I would be happy. And keep the prejudices up through the whole story would ya? I thought my elf might've changed into a human halfway through Origins. People should keep commenting on what and who you are, this goes for mages too. 

Stick to grey moral areas with decisions. Avoid black and white decisions like a plague. See Fable 3 for black and white moral decisions (srsly what was that? A morality lesson for two year olds? <_<) 

Hmmm I think I still wanted to say something but I forget. Oh well, I'll mention it later then.

And please excuse any spelling/grammatical mistakes, english isn't my first language. 

EDIT: I REMEMBER!

Thank you Bioware for actually choosing voice actors and not doing the Skyrim monotonous robot thing. After listening to the never ending monotonous drone of Skyrim listening to Dragon Age was like a beautitous symphony to my ears. 
 
And ANOTHER thing yuz guyz do right is actually respond to posts. That is really something you almost never see. I'm only going through the effort of posting this cuz I think there's actually a chance someone importnat might read it. :P

Oh and I remembered something else. The walls of text. Yeah it would be unbelievably annoying knowing everything you character is gonna say before they say it, it's one of the things I CANNOT stand about the Witcher. But someone mentioned hovering over it to see the whole thing, I think that's a pretty good idea actually. I like the freedom of having a wall of text to pick from, at the same time I liked choosing one of the three archetypes. -shrug- I dunno, I'm torn. I'd like a wall of text back but without knowing everything the character is gonna say and I would still like it to somehow contribute to the character's personality, but that seems really difficult to do. I don't think I'll mind too much whatever you guys come up with.

Oh and also, in defence of endings in general. I see Bioware's games as stories, I mean yes we (gamers) can influence events and outcomes but in the end the ending (or lack thereof) still needs to contribute to the story as whole, yah know? Which is why I wouldn't be opposed to the death of my character off screen or on screen IF IT CONTRIBUTES to the story as whole. Or an open ending, it's necessary sometimes. The problem I think is that people just get so attached to their characters that they want to control whatever happens, or they want them to live happily ever after, but I just like watching the story unfold, even if it means losing my character for it. Mkay I'm done for srs. 

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 21 mars 2012 - 10:24 .


#2696
CallingCalling

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Wow, this thread is long. If the devs are still reading then, a) This hasn't been a good month from you, guys. First the ME3 ending and now the DA2 expansion is cancelled? [long-suffering sigh]
And B) I have to point out a couple of things that I loved about DA2 but almost never hear mentioned (adding bolding for easier point skimming):
The dialog options that changed how your character responded overall. It was great to choose a standard dialog option, say, the flirt response to Fenris flattering you and have a Hawke who'd mostly gone with aggressive/blunt options say "Talk is cheap" while a sarcastic/witty Hawke said "You sound like you're about to ask for a loan." And the other character's dialog then changed to fit. I loved that. It made me feel more like the character I was playing was my own rather than something two-dimensional and linear, and her personality was something I'd tailored to fit how I'd like to interact with the world. It wasn't always perfect (sometimes sarcastic Hawke was just a little too crass, for instance) but all in all, I thought it was brilliant.

Related to that, I can't praise the clearly-labeled dialog wheel enough. KNOWING the tone of what I'm about to say is a vast improvement over both Origins and the dialog options for Mass Effect. No more Zevran ninjamances, or insulting characters I was trying to be nice to!
Apart from those things, which I'd really like to see more of, the rest has pretty much been covered. But just for recap's sake/adding my support:
  • Changeable companion armor (perhaps a small number of unique pieces to cycle between)
  • The DA2 combat system, which was far more fun to play
  • More open companion interactions a la Origins, rather than set piece conversations/"talk to" quests


#2697
Ladybright

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Bostur wrote...

The recent subject of limited failure is one I find very interesting. When games allow me to fail, and give me the tools to deal with it, this often results in very satisfying experiences. This can be handled through narrative as John hints at, but there are also gameplay opportunities. Tweaking encounters based on past performance is one option. Fixing a sword that was cursed because of a narrative twist could be another.

To avoid reloading issues I think it is important that the player get used to the idea that minor failures are normal, or even inevitable in the long run. If we get used to the idea that a non-perfect playthrough can have its own unique fun and challenges this may counter reloading habits.


I also think this is a good idea. The first time I played DAO, for instance, I totally missed the Fort Drakon escape segment because I had gotten into the habit of reloading the second I died (before the menu popped up). All the other times I had died I'd had to reload, so it didn't occur to me that losing that fight would be different. I am very interested in 'failure' paths that don't necessary punish the player.

#2698
Guest_simfamUP_*

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I've been so focused on ME3 that I've lost track of whats going on in the DAII forums...anybody could tell me what the hell is going on? xD

#2699
The Elder King

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simfamSP wrote...

I've been so focused on ME3 that I've lost track of whats going on in the DAII forums...anybody could tell me what the hell is going on? xD


Bioware decided to stop adding content to DA2, and starting developing the next DA game.
Previously they were developing, or thinking of developing an expansion about the Exalted Marches for DA2.

#2700
Guest_simfamUP_*

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hhh89 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I've been so focused on ME3 that I've lost track of whats going on in the DAII forums...anybody could tell me what the hell is going on? xD


Bioware decided to stop adding content to DA2, and starting developing the next DA game.
Previously they were developing, or thinking of developing an expansion about the Exalted Marches for DA2.


I'll wait till some confirmation. Unless this isn't just speculation...