2816 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Dejajeva]

So basically in 112 pages we've learned that we can't agree on anything. I imagine it's the same for the Dev's- just they have someone in charge to make the hard decisions. I wouldn't want to be that person. Good luck, you guys.

[eyesofastorm]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And thus a dimplomatic route would involve convincing both sides to alter their ideals.

If that worked, I would lose respect for both sides.

I value strength of conviction.  If I were playing a game of this sort, I would be annoyed that I was forced to find that compromise, rather than just taking a side and eradicating the other.

Whose to say that you don't have both paths available to you?
Nothing wrong with seeking a path of mutually guaranteed peace. But if you don't want to seek peace, then you seek military vicotry.

I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

[the_one_54321]

eyesofastorm wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And thus a dimplomatic route would involve convincing both sides to alter their ideals.

If that worked, I would lose respect for both sides.

I value strength of conviction.  If I were playing a game of this sort, I would be annoyed that I was forced to find that compromise, rather than just taking a side and eradicating the other.

Whose to say that you don't have both paths available to you?
Nothing wrong with seeking a path of mutually guaranteed peace. But if you don't want to seek peace, then you seek military vicotry.

I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

No need to worry on that point. I'm just blindly speculating.

[Sylvius the Mad]

eyesofastorm wrote...

I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

At this stage, I'd say objectivity and negativity were mutually exclusive.

We don't know enough yet to be negative.  Nor do we know enough yet to be positive.  We're simply watching.

[Statulos]

On the part of making it matter, well, think about the mage rebellion as a heresy would work in the real middle ages.

If the common dude starts considering that mages should not be taken under the authority of a circle, why should he/she be a serf?

[LPPrince]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

We don't know enough yet to be negative.  Nor do we know enough yet to be positive.  We're simply watching.

And listening.

And hoping.

And doing our best to be helping.

Its all we CAN do at the moment.

[eyesofastorm]

 

the_one_54321 wrote...

No need to worry on that point. I'm just blindly speculating. 

Mmm.... you seemed a little excited.   

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

At this stage, I'd say objectivity and negativity were mutually exclusive.

We don't know enough yet to be negative.  Nor do we know enough yet to be positive.  We're simply watching.

I thought they were always mutually exclusive.  

[Kavatica]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

At this stage, I'd say objectivity and negativity were mutually exclusive.

We don't know enough yet to be negative.  Nor do we know enough yet to be positive.  We're simply watching.

This. If you want to be negative, that's your call.

[Sylvius the Mad]

eyesofastorm wrote...

I thought they were always mutually exclusive.  

You just told us to remain "objectively negative".

Użytkownik Sylvius the Mad edytował ten post 21 marzec 2012 - 04:34

[eyesofastorm]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

I thought they were always mutually exclusive.  

You just told us to remain "objectively negative".

How long have we been reading the things the other says now?... and you never noticed I say ridiculous things like... all the time?  I'm hurt.

[the_one_54321]

LPPrince wrote...
And listening.

And hoping.

And doing our best to be helping.

Seriously, top-down camera. Or else count me out.

eyesofastorm wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
No need to worry on that point. I'm just blindly speculating.

Mmm.... you seemed a little excited.

Heh, I don't actually expect them to take any of these story ideas and run with them in a good direction. Despite all the talk of dark and gritty and visceral, every story line they've taken so far has eventually been sterilized.

That's one of my major gripes, actually. Action movies aren't moving or poignant. They're shoot-em-up-cops-and-robbers stories that you don't ever take seriously. That's apparently what most of the fans want for ME3, and what ME in general has seemed to be most of the way through. It's also what the DA franchise has mostly adhered to, while hiding behind a smoke screen of violence and the potential for douchebaggery.

Kavatica wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...
I'd caution you fellas to stay objectively negative about DA3 until we get more than promises of more open communication between the devs and the fans.

At this stage, I'd say objectivity and negativity were mutually exclusive.

We don't know enough yet to be negative.  Nor do we know enough yet to be positive.  We're simply watching.

This. If you want to be negative, that's your call.

Not exactly true. We have some well established trends over the last several years. And no reason at all to expect that they will deviate from those trends.

Użytkownik the_one_54321 edytował ten post 21 marzec 2012 - 04:39

[Sylvius the Mad]

eyesofastorm wrote...

I'm hurt.

I'm literal.

[eyesofastorm]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

I'm hurt.

I'm literal.

You are.

[Pasquale1234]

CallingCalling wrote...

Wow, this thread is long. If the devs are still reading then, a) This hasn't been a good month from you, guys. First the ME3 ending and now the DA2 expansion is cancelled? [long-suffering sigh]
And I have to point out a couple of things that I loved about DA2 but almost never hear mentioned (adding bolding for easier point skimming):
The dialog options that changed how your character responded overall. It was great to choose a standard dialog option, say, the flirt response to Fenris flattering you and have a Hawke who'd mostly gone with aggressive/blunt options say "Talk is cheap" while a sarcastic/witty Hawke said "You sound like you're about to ask for a loan." And the other character's dialog then changed to fit. I loved that. It made me feel more like the character I was playing was my own rather than something two-dimensional and linear, and her personality was something I'd tailored to fit how I'd like to interact with the world. It wasn't always perfect (sometimes sarcastic Hawke was just a little too crass, for instance) but all in all, I thought it was brilliant.

And I absolutely hated it.  I never knew what Hawke was going to say, and that should never ever happen in an RPG.

I guess I can understand why some find it interesting, but to me, it is like you are discovering who a character is in the same way you would if you were watching a movie.  These are the kinds of things that make me feel like DA2 was more of an interactive movie experience than an RPG - because when you, as an actor, are playing a role, you know exactly what a character is going to say and do before you do so.

Related to that, I can't praise the clearly-labeled dialog wheel enough. KNOWING the tone of what I'm about to say is a vast improvement over both Origins and the dialog options for Mass Effect. No more Zevran ninjamances, or insulting characters I was trying to be nice to!

I found quite a few places where selecting only a tone and paraphrase had Hawke saying something that was very different from what I wanted/expected Hawke to say.  I don't discount the importance of tone, but substance is at least as important.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

And I absolutely hated it.  I never knew what Hawke was going to say, and that should never ever happen in an RPG.

I'm going to repeat this point at every opportunity so the developers don't forget.

We need to know exactly what our character will say before we tell him to say it.  DA2's guesswork was completely unacceptable.

[Alain Baxter]

Dejajeva wrote...

So basically in 112 pages we've learned that we can't agree on anything. I imagine it's the same for the Dev's- just they have someone in charge to make the hard decisions. I wouldn't want to be that person. Good luck, you guys.

Ha! Yes, in the early concept phases of development, everyone pitches an idea and the battles begin! The good side of all this is that is it's great to hear opinions and ideas from people (dev & non-dev). Everyone wants to pitch in and becomes quite passionate about their ideas. On the other side, we can't choose them all and we need to filter them out. That's when prototyping starts. Here's where we can see these ideas in action and can be reviewed. Not surprisingly, many ideas are thrown out... they just don't hold up (not fun). Other's though stay alive and are iterated on.

In the end though, yes, someone has to make a call and then we move onward. Without people calling shots, we'd never leave pre-production. Speaking of which...

"Um, Mr. Laidlaw Sir! About my idea of the three-armed juggling monkey who mimes quests to the player... we good to go?"

[Mark Darrah]

This thread has generated a lot of discussion and good feedback.
We're going to lock it now.
This is not to shutdown the discussion but rather to allow us the opportunity to fully parse what has been said.
So what are my next steps?
1. Mine this thread for your feedback. This will take a little while
2. Once that's done, I would like to focus the discussion on specific topics. Expect new threads like this one but with much narrower topics.

Hopefully, everyone found this useful and I promise we will be doing more of this (but give me at least a week to digest)