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Mark Darrah on the conclusion of Dragon Age II


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#701
Noob451

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saMOOrai182 wrote...

I'm really disappointed that you're just dropping Hawke's story, there was a lot that could have been done with it and I was hoping that he would have been the Protagonist of the next game, after all, Cassandra was looking for him to help save the world, DA2 was pretty much just building him up to be this great hero.

The cancellation of the expansion pack also disappoints me, an Expansion Pack about the Exalted Marches (I'm assuming this was that it was about since you mentioned shirts) would have been great, and a nice way to get people interested in Dragon age 3.

I'm still looking forward to DA3 greatly. But I was just hoping for a more fulfilling ending to my Favorite Bioware protagonist.

I'm hoping I'm wrong about him not being the DA3 PC, like how Bioware hinted Shepard wouldn't be the PC for ME2. Only time will tell.


While, I think we need a new protagonist, I do agree with your other points.  Hawke needs to at least make some sort of appearance in the next game.

#702
Demx

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Blastback wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think it's more not wanting to pay extra (like with Javik in me3 costing 10 dollars extra) for content that should be on the disc in the first place. But that's a circular arguement and isn't going to change at this point. Day 1 DLC is a slippery slope. It's one thing to include this content in ALL new copies regardless to combat used game sales. I get that.

Cutting said content for collector's editions reeks of greed.


Sebastian himself is actually similar to this Javik fiasco. He's crucial for the Mage-Templar conflict to feel even slightly more fleshed out -- not that it was fleshed out to begin with.

I think Bioware should read -- if they haven't already -- the article on Forbes by Erik Kain. I think that was his name.

That's it.  And, the reason I think Bioware should stay away from Day 1 dlc is that it ultimatly creates a perception, right or wrong (And personally, I belive in Bioware's case it's wrong), that the company is ripping us off.  While I've read and belive your statments about how you develop DLC, a lot of people here aren't so sure.  And then you have pleny of players who never see those statments and are likely going to remain convinced that they are being taken advantage of.


The thing is I viewed Sebastian as an important companion to have in the core of the game because he shows you how the chantry views this current dilemma throughout the game. Not to mention it also explains why Leliana shows up at the end of the game. I don't think you get an explanation as to why she is there without the DLC.

Edit: That's why he should have not been day 1 dlc or any type of dlc.

Modifié par Siradix, 19 mars 2012 - 10:21 .


#703
TEWR

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Same. People harp on about wanting their decisions to affect the next game, but why not just have your decisions affect that game?


That's precisely what I said many pages back to Mark Darrah himself. About how choices could present divervent paths and be wrapped up within the game they take place in.

Very few decisions in a game should be import-material.

#704
Tom12

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filetemo wrote...

Will DA3 have a new graphic engine?

i think they said it will have the one from da2 with only some minor tweaks to it, its a shame imo.. and i was hoping for frostbite 2 :crying:... 
i cant even believe that people are complaining about me3's graphics, i would be happy with graphics like that for da3 

Modifié par Tom12, 19 mars 2012 - 10:16 .


#705
Plaguemaster

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Everything Brockololly said and also Combat system - step away from arcadeness and japanese influences. In DA2 you have to MOVE fast, position your party across the battlefield when bosses used their superstrikes. Your combat depended on how fast you can click all your awesum buttonz, not how you planned your strategy and tactics. Waves of clones rpved to be boring and annoying, and when in DA:O we got fights when we have to THINK - in DA2 we pushed buttons and and WSAD to position Hawke properly.
This combat system is appealing to console arcade auditory, but the result is here to stay - you alienated your core RPG auditory. You won some of console and arcade players and lost fans, who waited for continuation of origins gameplay traditions.

#706
Thor Rand Al

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Aldaris951 wrote...

dragon age origins is all the feedback you need. Dont feel bad about hawke. DA2 has a very small fanbase compared to DA1. 



Excuse me, (n sorry I don't mean to start anything because this is a good thread) but do you know why DA2 has a very small fanbase just out of curiousity?  Not because of how the game is but because of the shytstorm they get slammed into if they defend anything good about DA2.  So ya a lot of people that loved DA2 avoid the forums anymore, so they take their love elsewhere like to Tumblr or make their own groups because of the fear of being pounced upon for actually liking something.

#707
tfollette_69

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There's only one person I will accept as the new protagonist... ENCHANTMENT anyone?

#708
Apollo Starflare

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Nice to see a post like this.

Very sad to see we won't get some form of DLC that continues/concludes the story of Hawke's merry band, it is truly one of my favourite ensembles of characters in gaming and I'll miss it. The fact you guys came so close to getting an expansion makes it worse, I would have loved to see that.

Still, looking to the future I'm eager to see where the team goes with the franchise. I really enjoyed Asunder, and really I'm more invested in the Dragon Age overarching story than ever before.

It's good to see you looking to your core fanbase and your past titles, and I say that having been a fan of a lot of the stuff DA2 brought in. I also think it is imperative that the size of the project matches the development time, I don't mind seeing a DA game developed in two years so long as it isn't overreaching and feels rushed as a result. That said in an ideal world I would like your team to get 3+ years to devote to a DA project where you can let your ambition loose and really push some boundaries.

Regardless I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

#709
Sylvius the Mad

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Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I believe you are staring at day one of that approach even now.

That is the best thing you could have said.

Where's Stan?  You just earned a hug.

#710
Maltoc

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The main problem I had with Dragon Age 2 was the recycled environments, but due to being restricted to Kirkwall I wouldn't have expected much difference in architecture and layouts anyway. DLC didn't have this problem.
I loved the characters and story of Dragon Age 2. I would like combat to stay fairly fast paced; DA:O combat is too slow in comparison to DA2. I also love having a voiced main charatcer; I just feel it makes the game better and the cutscenes/conversations more enjoyable.

#711
Blastback

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Siradix wrote...

The thing is I viewed Sebastian as an important companion to have in the core of the game because he shows you how the chantry views this current dilemma throughout the game. Not to mention it also explains why Leliana shows up at the end of the game. I don't think you get an explanation as to why she is there without the DLC.

I'm not argueing against including characters like Sebastian in DA2 or Kasumi in ME2 in future dlc.  But I think that it is bad PR for them to be Day 1. 

Or am I totally misinterpreting your post?

#712
Tourmaline

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Thor Rand Al wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

dragon age origins is all the feedback you need. Dont feel bad about hawke. DA2 has a very small fanbase compared to DA1. 



Excuse me, (n sorry I don't mean to start anything because this is a good thread) but do you know why DA2 has a very small fanbase just out of curiousity?  Not because of how the game is but because of the shytstorm they get slammed into if they defend anything good about DA2.  So ya a lot of people that loved DA2 avoid the forums anymore, so they take their love elsewhere like to Tumblr or make their own groups because of the fear of being pounced upon for actually liking something.


Exactly this. There are a lot of DA2 fans- just not so vocally on the BSN.

#713
LPPrince

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Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I wish we could discuss the game in development in greater detail from an earlier stage, like we could after the original Dragon Age announcement.  We got to interact with the devs on concrete ideas and plans 4-5 years before release.  I recognise you don't want to have a 4 year development cycle, but it would be great if you could return to this more open approach to community relations.


I believe you are staring at day one of that approach even now.


If this is Day One of that approach, I'm glad I got involved, because the next game is gonna make or break the Dragon Age franchise for me.

I can't have another DA2 in my disc tray.

#714
Wulfram

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Kavatica wrote...

I think importing saves is important just for world continuity - ie. one in which Alistair is the King of Fereldan or Anora is Queen, a world where Hawke sided with the mages or Hawke sided with the Templars, etc. Whether or not I see the characters again is another matter, but I want world continuity and to see that the choices that I made in earlier games had an impact on some level.


But they're unlikely to show these choices having a major impact, because there's a limited amount of resources they can put into content that only a portion of people are going to see.

I'd rather see Bioware give me a world transformed by the decision to bring a child with the soul of an Old God into being, and have the freedom to imagine how it would be different in a world without it, than to see both worlds and discover that they're basically the same.

#715
Demx

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Blastback wrote...

Siradix wrote...

The thing is I viewed Sebastian as an important companion to have in the core of the game because he shows you how the chantry views this current dilemma throughout the game. Not to mention it also explains why Leliana shows up at the end of the game. I don't think you get an explanation as to why she is there without the DLC.

I'm not argueing against including characters like Sebastian in DA2 or Kasumi in ME2 in future dlc.  But I think that it is bad PR for them to be Day 1. 

Or am I totally misinterpreting your post?


No I was agreeing with you as to why they should not be day one dlc. I should have clarified.

#716
wetnasty

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Ok, like I said on twitter, I'd really want to be able to have different options on the voice protag front. You don't have to change the physical voice actors, but if there was an option to change the pitch of your character's voice (i.e. The Sims 3 etc.) I think it would be pretty useful. It would also make you able to play around more with races and such (maybe?).

CONSIDER IT.

#717
JudgeOverdose

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My only major comment is that if you plan to have one static ending regardless of what we do, be honest with us up front, don't let us believe that the ending can be affected by our choices and leave us feeling like everything we did was meaningless because all paths lead to the same delivery of the same point.

Thanks.

#718
Blastback

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Siradix wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Siradix wrote...

The thing is I viewed Sebastian as an important companion to have in the core of the game because he shows you how the chantry views this current dilemma throughout the game. Not to mention it also explains why Leliana shows up at the end of the game. I don't think you get an explanation as to why she is there without the DLC.

I'm not argueing against including characters like Sebastian in DA2 or Kasumi in ME2 in future dlc.  But I think that it is bad PR for them to be Day 1. 

Or am I totally misinterpreting your post?


No I was agreeing with you as to why they should not be day one dlc. I should have clarified.

:OSomeone agrees with me! Oh happy day!:P

#719
LPPrince

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I believe you are staring at day one of that approach even now.

That is the best thing you could have said.

Where's Stan?  You just earned a hug.


Also, and I hope Sylv and a lot of y'all forumites agree with me here, but I'm HOPING for a 4 year+ development cycle.

Perhaps a release on the next gen consoles even, depending on when they're out and what progress has been made on them(though I bet the next game will be current gen).

I want Elder Scrolls/Dragon Age Origins development cycles, not DA2 develepment cycles.

#720
Guest_PresidentCowboy_*

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Same. People harp on about wanting their decisions to affect the next game, but why not just have your decisions affect that game?


That's precisely what I said many pages back to Mark Darrah himself. About how choices could present divervent paths and be wrapped up within the game they take place in.

Very few decisions in a game should be import-material.


Yeah, exactly, or you end up like DA2, having loads of unresolved plot threads that won't be resolved now because of the expansion cancellation. So just resolve them in the game, simple!

Modifié par PresidentCowboy, 19 mars 2012 - 10:21 .


#721
Winterfly

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My suggestion is to take a step back, make the game inte more "old school" and let Mass Effect be the license for the mixed RP and action.

Let Dragon Age be a game of its own. No need to copy cat the damn dialog wheel for it.

Less stupid sex jokes, Isabella could been a brilliant character who slept with whom she want, killed whom she wanted and so on. But she became a joke. A 15 year olds creation,a wet tabletop dream who slept with her fellow party members to get more gold and magical items. I had one player like that in my PnP group who made foxy elfs who remind me a bit of Isabella.

Maybe make the game even more gritty and dark? For being a former town of slavery, the atmosphere was bit light and happy with all those jokes.

I had fun with Dragon Age II, somewhat. But that was cause I lowered my expectations enormously after playing the demo.

Also, you guys do not need famous girls like Chobot or that assassin elf girl...we love you guys for your old genuine Biowareish ways.

It hurts me to look upon the gaming house who given me so many hours with a bad eye these days. Bioware, look back at old days and make a modern Baldurs Gate, liek Dragon Age Origins was. Hell it can even be in third person if you so want but give us a zoom so we can easier controll the party and use magic.

#722
OhoniX

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I have to say this about a prospective DA3. I enjoyed DA2. I thought it had some serious flaws, but I still loved it. The things I'd like to see focused on in DA3 would include:

1. More REAL control over the plot. DA2 offered very little actual choice. You could choose to save or lose a couple of NPCs over the course of the game, but at each stage things would happen that were out of your control and had no alternative. there was no way to actually stop Ander's plan, for example. The world at the end of DA2 that DA3 players will have to deal with was certainly effected by Hawke's participation, but not at all by the player's participation.

Like with the complaints about a certain other game on the market, I will hope that the choices I make in Act I will make my Act II experience significantly different than some other players', and that my choices made there will make my Act III quite different, and that those choices will lead to my ending being something completely different than someone who'd made other choices, maybe better, maybe worse, maybe no better or worse but just very different. It shouldn't be like a "oh noes, you killed that one guy so now you get a bad end," sort of thing, so much as that the way that you have to work to achieve a "good end" is completely different and natural to your choices, like if you killed one NPC then maybe you have to work twice as hard to pursue a specific objective, and the way things resolve are still good, but reflect that this NPC isn't a part of things, rather than it just being noted on a tally of your accomplishments.

2. I really enjoyed the option of fast paced combat, especially the two-hander melee. I also liked the enemy improvements in the MoA expansion. I would definitely like to see improved AI controls though. My problem when I got into the weeds of the AI editor was that it lacked certain commands, like a simple "goto" command. You could send commands up the chain, but not back down it, making it hard to get them to do some fairly simple things reliably. You couldn't, for example, tell NPCs to automatically turn off buffs they didn't need after combat had ended. I know it's considered "bad programming," but for something as simple as this, I think it could be allowed. ;) I'd love to see a more complex AI editor in DA3, one that allowed two different conditionals per line would be great, like If "Nearest" AND "Mage" then "use anti-mage ability".

3. More customization is great, although I did like the sense of style that DA2 had over the generic looks of DAO. I would prefer to have the option at any given time to have my companions either wear "loot drop" armor OR wear one of their default, stylish looks, depending on which I think looks better at the time. It's more important that NPCs be allowed to benefit from the stats of dropped gear than that their appearance reflects it, as it was really lame in DA2 that my Rogue would be getting all this sweet warrior or mage gear that nobody could use, even though I had a warrior and a mage right there.

#723
RogueWriter3201

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*Note: Wall 'O Text  :?

@Mr. Laidlaw, Mr. Darrah, Mr. Gaider, and the DA Creative Team, 

Given that I don’t have that little DAII icon below my portrait (learned from DAO, so I’m waiting for, hopefully, a “complete” edition of DAII) I don’t even know if I have the *right* to comment here; despite the fact that I have played the game. No, not illegally. I think that kind of thing is garbage and spits on the hard work good people have done; I simply played a copy owned by a fellow gamer. On the up and up, just, well, not mine. Anyway, as Morrigan says, “To the point,” 

I very much enjoyed Origins. It was a masterpiece of RPG gaming in the modern medium. Likewise, though I know others did not, I very much enjoyed DAII; however, I will admit to being somewhat disappointed by certain design/narrative choices made for the game. They aren’t anything overly critical, some are even superficial at best. However, since you’ve asked for feedback (again, I doubt mine counts given that I haven’t put money in your pocket for this title specifically…) I’ll ad my meager two cents for Pros and Cons: 

-The Framed Narrative: As much as I loved Varric (The Dwarven Lando Calrissian) I was not a fan of “having my story told.” I wanted to *live* my story. Every moment. Not jump ahead several years and head-cannon what happened in-between time frames. Origins “one year” narrative approach was perfect as you did, traveling all over Fereldan, feel like that amount of time had indeed passed over the course of your journey. With DAII, not so much. It was just like, “Oh, hey, two years have passed.” 

-class = Companions: I know Mr. Gaider has explained *why* the choice was made to have Hawke’s siblings reflect his/her class choice. Mage Hawke couldn’t have Mage Sister because it would clash with the narrative (No Spoilers) However this never sat well with me. There had to have been another way to go about it to achieve the best of both worlds. 

BioWare’s RPGs are supposed to be a personal experience, something we live vicariously though to an extent; the fact is, as someone who grew up with 6 sisters I would have really loved to have Bethany as a part of my Mage Hawke’s story as well as a companion for the amount of time she is available. It was a small thing that would have added a greater emotional connection. 

Carver, however, being forced on me was consistently immersion breaking as all I could think about was A. I wish he was Bethany, and B. god this is an annoying character, and not even in a good story telling kind of way. The moment I didn’t need to have him around I did not, nor did I bother to speak with him unless absolutely required for the sake of completing a mission for the XP. Overall, Bethany was just a better written/acted character that fell more in line with how I wanted my story to be experienced.  

-Blocked Relationships: This is one of those more “superficial” dislikes I mentioned. It has to do with Aveline. She was, without question, one of the most beautifully written, complex, and likable companions in the game. Her story wove in intricately with Hawke’s in a way no other character’s did, and even her impact on Hawke post the events of the core story are meaningful if you so choose. 

What confused me was why she was not written as a romance option; *despite* there being “flirt” dialogue which she doesn‘t even recognize even though she will, later, ask you, “Have you ever thought about us?” Instead we were, basically, forced to pair her up with a bland NPC character unless we wanted to see her miserable and alone. Really? 

Again, I know Mr. Gaider has (I believe), in the past, countered with, “Why does *every* character have to be romancible?” And I would agree with that…to an extent. However, if you’re going to create such a rich, complex, compassionate, heartfelt, and narratively important character while *also* making said character a companion it really makes no sense not to go that extra mile and have said character play a much more intimate role in the PC’s life if the player so chooses. It was a choice removed without any real justification, IMHO. 

-Import Bugs: Yes, I understand, as anyone should, that these errors were not intentional. Really, BioWare was doing something other game companies had not ever really tried before, and while your ME sister series was working with the same import mechanics, I recognize that the DA team had it a bit rougher, especially after going with a more updated visual/game mechanics approach, not to mention the development of a new console experience. 

Hiccups in the codes were bound to happen and, frankly, I know, could have been far worse. As it was, I did not encounter too many problems as my Origins play through was fairly Heroic and Straight Forward. However, I do think that, Starting with DAIII, steps should be taken to try to import as much as possible, but attempt to create a new import system that’s more dependable and more solid then the previous one. 

-Art Design: Now here’s something I can praise and, as such, I’ll keep it brief. I understand other members of the community were…not happy, to put it mildly, with the new visual aesthetic for the DA Universe. I however, was not among them. I loved it. Thought it gave the Dragon Age world a much more unique and equally high fantasy approach. 

Two redesigns on the racial level that had some fans put out was the Qunari and Elven races. With all due respect to them, I loved the new visual approach. In Origins we were supposed to be looking at two very different, very exotic races. Instead we got large grey humans with Corn-Rows and the other being Tiny Vulcans. Sorry, but that just doesn’t appeal to the High Fantasy geek within. 

I loved that the Qunari appeared to have come from an entirely different world. Perhaps…literally? And the Elves appeared to have evolved from something not completely human, with a more feline/avian appearance befitting a *Woodland* species. Likewise, the massive statuary, stone edifices and lost grandeur of Kirkwall and the Deep Roads was an amazing site; all accolades to the art team. 

-Recycled Environments: An old complaint, and one which always left me scratching my head. The fact is, Origins reused maps/dungeons as well, only Origins did a much better job of switching things about or adding “props” to the map to give the illusion of a new environment. Really I didn’t see much difference between DAI and DAII other then a few more reused caves. Still, I’m sure improvements on variety can be made.  

-Combat Mechanics: In short, I enjoyed it. Especially as a Mage no longer meekly “pew-pew’ing” with a Stave, I felt like I was a visceral part of combat even when I wasn’t reigning Maker-Like power from the Heavens. Also love that, when some baddie got close, I could knock ‘em one. Some compare the combat to Hack ‘n Slash, something I didn’t really see. I know the Auto-Attack feature broke for the console version, otherwise I don’t think it would have been as much of a problem. 

-DLC: (Sigh) I'll just say "companion" character should have been included with the game, not sold on thier own. If they weren't "ready" in time for launch, save 'em for the next game. DLC should be added adventures and never feel as though they *should* have been there already. In Origns Warden's Keep and Ostagar were good. Shale was Free which was even better, but she still should have been there from the start. Mark of the Assasian was brilliant, a new, but not permanant, character and adventure. Nicely done and worth the coin that, well, someone *else* spent. (Sorry) 

-The Conclusion: The end of DAII was, to put it mildly, ambiguous. Which was, frankly, doing a disservice to what was a very enjoyable story, sans the framed narrative. Having a *complete* ending with post closure would have been rather nice. What happened to our companions? What happens to the region in light of the “events” of DAII’s culmination? While every detail can not be made it would have been nice to have something along the lines of Origin’s Epilogues but with some genuine visual accompaniment. When everything is said and done, while ambiguous, it wasn’t nearly as bad an ending as…another recent game I won’t name here… 

There are other points I could touch on, but I think this gives you an idea of my mindset for DAII and what I would very much love to see in DAIII. While I’m disappointed that the complete edition (if released) of DAII will not be as…robust as Origin’s I none the less look forward to seeing what the team has coming and what *may* be previewed at PAX. My thanks to everyone for opening this dialogue.
^_^ 
 

Modifié par glenboy24, 19 mars 2012 - 10:24 .


#724
ARTHURIUSS

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Somethings I want in DA3-

A proper resolution for the main story and the protagonist is a necessity. There could be an overlying plot that stretches across past and future games but the primary story being told has to have a definitive conclusion.

Let the fate of the protagonist be decided by the consequences of his choices and decisions. Don't rail road players into getting an ending with just minor variations. Go wild with choices and consequences in this one. Now, I understand there should be a certain common ground at the end for further games but the fate of the protagonist can have umpteen variations (yeah that includes riding of into the sunset with his LI! or dying a terrible death in a dragon's belly)

Make relationships more fulfilling and satisfying. I care,I DEEPLY CARE about my friends. Love interests, siblings etc so the more interactions the merrier

Make me feel like I'm the BIGGEST BAD ASS around. Now DAO made me feel this but in DA2 I rolled a sword and shield Hawke and guess what, Aveline's better at it than I am. Give the hero some unique abilities and just make him more powerful( statistically and if possible even lore wise) than his companions.

Make areas bigger,more alive, less linear with less hand holding......or just have a look at how the witcher 2 did it. Give me a chance to get lost while exploring an area.

Better sex scenes. I know all ya peeps want it:D

Banter<------MOAR..

Really looking forward to DA3<3

Modifié par ARTHURIUSS, 19 mars 2012 - 10:23 .


#725
Plaguemaster

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Thor Rand Al wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...

dragon age origins is all the feedback you need. Dont feel bad about hawke. DA2 has a very small fanbase compared to DA1. 


Excuse me, (n sorry I don't mean to start anything because this is a good thread) but do you know why DA2 has a very small fanbase just out of curiousity?  Not because of how the game is but because of the shytstorm they get slammed into if they defend anything good about DA2.  So ya a lot of people that loved DA2 avoid the forums anymore, so they take their love elsewhere like to Tumblr or make their own groups because of the fear of being pounced upon for actually liking something.


Total sales of both games as of July 22nd:

DAO 3.79 million, .39 million PC

DA2 1.45 million, .29 million PC
Also, first ten weeks of sales
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