Don't rush to release it!!! Spend the time to do it right! I don't give a d*mn about EA's schedule. if the game is subpar like da2 i'm keeping my greenbacks this time.
Hoping you're well, Bleach
Mark Darrah on the conclusion of Dragon Age II
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 19 2012 02:56
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#902
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:04
jmd4
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It's nice to see the devs reaching out to the audience for input--and taking it into consideration, I hope. Thanks for this. It sparks a faint glimmer of hope in my heart that the series can be brought back in line and be the RPG I love best again.
Personally, I'd like to see a lot of changes in DA in the future and I am sure I'm repeating much of what's been said already, but here it is:
*The triumphant return of the missing female dwarves.
*No more jiggle-physics on female characters.
*Slower combat, ala DAO, because it felt more realistic. If speedier, then reasonably speedy--not hot-rod samurai fast.
*Player choices that matter and actually affect the story--no more story on rails, or at least hide the rails better.
*Consistent lore--this is a major issue for me. Dragon Age needs a worldmaster to keep the lore in order. The retcons in DA2 bothered me.
*Let's return to the character art style of DAO--it can be improved, sure, but I loathed the look of all characters in DA2 with the new streamlined style. The alien elves, the chubby-cheeked humans with corn kernel teeth, the bulgy-eyes dwarves were all painful to look at and had a doll-like artificiality compared to the more natural, homlier look of DAO characters. I don't mind homely characters!
*Bring back party camp.
*Let me chat with my companions again whenever I like--and snog my LI too, for that matter.
*Bring back customizable armor, because I like playing dress-up.
*Epic stories. I like epic stories, even cliched epic stories. Cliche stories are cliche for a reason--they work. Hawke's story felt so trivial, and Hawke so ineffective.
*Bring back racial options.
*I'd like origins again, but I'll settle for races.
*Mute protagonist over voiced. I don't have a problem with mute, it makes the character feel more like mine.
*A focus on a conflict beyond the Chantry/mage war. There are other stories to tell. All races have interesting stories, please don't let this conflict dictate the future storylines. I liked Circle mages and now we'll never have them again, thanks to this world event. I didn't appreciate that.
There's plenty more but these are the most pressing to me.
Thanks, Mark and others.
Personally, I'd like to see a lot of changes in DA in the future and I am sure I'm repeating much of what's been said already, but here it is:
*The triumphant return of the missing female dwarves.
*No more jiggle-physics on female characters.
*Slower combat, ala DAO, because it felt more realistic. If speedier, then reasonably speedy--not hot-rod samurai fast.
*Player choices that matter and actually affect the story--no more story on rails, or at least hide the rails better.
*Consistent lore--this is a major issue for me. Dragon Age needs a worldmaster to keep the lore in order. The retcons in DA2 bothered me.
*Let's return to the character art style of DAO--it can be improved, sure, but I loathed the look of all characters in DA2 with the new streamlined style. The alien elves, the chubby-cheeked humans with corn kernel teeth, the bulgy-eyes dwarves were all painful to look at and had a doll-like artificiality compared to the more natural, homlier look of DAO characters. I don't mind homely characters!
*Bring back party camp.
*Let me chat with my companions again whenever I like--and snog my LI too, for that matter.
*Bring back customizable armor, because I like playing dress-up.
*Epic stories. I like epic stories, even cliched epic stories. Cliche stories are cliche for a reason--they work. Hawke's story felt so trivial, and Hawke so ineffective.
*Bring back racial options.
*I'd like origins again, but I'll settle for races.
*Mute protagonist over voiced. I don't have a problem with mute, it makes the character feel more like mine.
*A focus on a conflict beyond the Chantry/mage war. There are other stories to tell. All races have interesting stories, please don't let this conflict dictate the future storylines. I liked Circle mages and now we'll never have them again, thanks to this world event. I didn't appreciate that.
There's plenty more but these are the most pressing to me.
Thanks, Mark and others.
#903
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:05
GeneralArrow
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Sorry you feel the need to be this way, this oforum has been very civil compared to Retake Mass Effect. We aren't crybabies for giving feedbackchesschamp wrote...
All I ever saw visiting this forum was a bunch of whiners who hated Dragon Age 2 because it wasn't a carbon copy of Origins. I loved Origins, and I loved 2. I have all the achievements in both of them, because I felt it was worth exploring everything in them and overtly stating my taste by flaunting the 100%, and I'm sad that the game is over. It's a great game, despite what some of your community apparently wants you to think. Make DA3 the best game ever! I'm still looking forward to it, despite that I feel like this is a pretty heavy-handed betrayal. I wasn't done with Hawke, and somehow, I don't think you were either. I'm sorry that the crybabies won, but I nonetheless wish you the best. Keep up the good work, Bioware.
#904
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:05
RazorrX
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Kavatica wrote...
RazorrX wrote...
As far as enemies go, as long as there is not the sudden 'god' at the end, but a villan that we can look back and see where the hints were, etc. I am good with never knowing who I would end up fighting until the end. How cool would it be if one of your companions was actually either the master mind or his number 1 (again as long as when you look back you can *see* that this was going on).
This kind of reminds me of what they did with Isabela in DA2. I for one, did not see that coming on my first playthrough (didn't bring her with me to see the Qun in Act 1 and apparently missed a lot of key party banter). But when I played it again I saw all the clues I missed the first time around.
Exactly! Now expand that to have the actual mastermind of (insert evil thing going on for whole game) actually be someone you *thought* you knew and trusted. Someone who was playing you the whole time. That would be cool. What would be even more awesome is if it could be a different person depending on the path you take.
#905
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:05
Fast Jimmy
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I may be reading more into things than I should (a SHOCKING thought that someone could be doing that on the BSN!:innocent:) but a thought occurs to me...
...Mark, I love your interaction with the fans in this thread. It seems that previously, we had heard not as much from you, at least from a front-and-center kind of role in the forums.
So, Mark... are you going to be the Lead Designer for Dragon Age 3? I know Mike had been promoted to Creative Director and the position of Lead Designer for DA3 still unannounced... is this a sort of "reach out to the masses" manuever to segue into that announcement?
If so, consider me manuevered. I like your approach and your desire to get to the heart of what the gamers actually want in this thread. Not just a checklist of features that would sell, but your questions reveal an intent to understand the underlying appeal of a game, which is great. I can love a game with a voice protagonist, even though I think it hampers the narrative development. I can be deeply involved in an experience without being able to customize all my companions armors, although I think it adds depth to how I can set up my party.
A list of features is, ultimately, just a Christmas List - all stuff we think we want as gamers. But your questions seem to be aimed at the WHY we like things, not "Do we like pre-set feature A or pre-set feature B." Making things entertaining, not just forcing certain features into a game because demographic polls show that's what people "want", but actually making a video game fun and enjoyable... that's the best motivation possible. It lets you get out of the rut of using already made features, trying some new ones, using what works well from old and thinking of new ways of doing things... all with the thought of making a good game. Not making an ambitious one that tries innovation for the sake of innovation, but for the sake of ENTERTAINMENT.
So... if this is just a prep post to lead into the Lead Designer announcement, then I say I'm all for it. If not, then, again, I apologize for reading too much into things. Maybe Lead Designed is a step down from Executive Producer at Bioware - I'm not sure. But it seems to me like you all are understanding the fact that making a video game isn't like making a caserole. You can't just throw a list of ingredients together for a set amount of time and pull out a tasty dinner. You've got to keep tasting the pot, the WHOLE pot, of how the meal is going to taste. And you've also got to bring in the people who are going to be eating the meal. Because after you sample your dinner 16 times over a long course of time, you can't taste how it tastes to someone fresh into the kitchen. What has dulled to your pallette is still new and fresh to theirs, and can taste overpowering or bitter.
Sorry that this has turned into a full-fledged rant here, not to mention a metaphoric minefiled, but I do just want to say that this thread gets me excited for the Dragon Age series. For the first time in a while.
...Mark, I love your interaction with the fans in this thread. It seems that previously, we had heard not as much from you, at least from a front-and-center kind of role in the forums.
So, Mark... are you going to be the Lead Designer for Dragon Age 3? I know Mike had been promoted to Creative Director and the position of Lead Designer for DA3 still unannounced... is this a sort of "reach out to the masses" manuever to segue into that announcement?
If so, consider me manuevered. I like your approach and your desire to get to the heart of what the gamers actually want in this thread. Not just a checklist of features that would sell, but your questions reveal an intent to understand the underlying appeal of a game, which is great. I can love a game with a voice protagonist, even though I think it hampers the narrative development. I can be deeply involved in an experience without being able to customize all my companions armors, although I think it adds depth to how I can set up my party.
A list of features is, ultimately, just a Christmas List - all stuff we think we want as gamers. But your questions seem to be aimed at the WHY we like things, not "Do we like pre-set feature A or pre-set feature B." Making things entertaining, not just forcing certain features into a game because demographic polls show that's what people "want", but actually making a video game fun and enjoyable... that's the best motivation possible. It lets you get out of the rut of using already made features, trying some new ones, using what works well from old and thinking of new ways of doing things... all with the thought of making a good game. Not making an ambitious one that tries innovation for the sake of innovation, but for the sake of ENTERTAINMENT.
So... if this is just a prep post to lead into the Lead Designer announcement, then I say I'm all for it. If not, then, again, I apologize for reading too much into things. Maybe Lead Designed is a step down from Executive Producer at Bioware - I'm not sure. But it seems to me like you all are understanding the fact that making a video game isn't like making a caserole. You can't just throw a list of ingredients together for a set amount of time and pull out a tasty dinner. You've got to keep tasting the pot, the WHOLE pot, of how the meal is going to taste. And you've also got to bring in the people who are going to be eating the meal. Because after you sample your dinner 16 times over a long course of time, you can't taste how it tastes to someone fresh into the kitchen. What has dulled to your pallette is still new and fresh to theirs, and can taste overpowering or bitter.
Sorry that this has turned into a full-fledged rant here, not to mention a metaphoric minefiled, but I do just want to say that this thread gets me excited for the Dragon Age series. For the first time in a while.
#906
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:06
GeneralArrow
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I agree, we as fans DO NOT CARE HOW MUCH TMIE YOU TAKE BIOWARE....bleachorange wrote...
Don't rush to release it!!! Spend the time to do it right! I don't give a d*mn about EA's schedule. if the game is subpar like da2 i'm keeping my greenbacks this time.
Hoping you're well, Bleach
TAKE YOUR TIME, DO IT RIGHT, WE CAN WAIT. If Bethseda can sell millions after 3 years of nothing so can you.
PS. Unless of course it becomes Blizzard lvl lol.
Modifié par GeneralArrow, 20 mars 2012 - 12:07 .
#907
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:06
AmeriCanuck77
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Admittedly, I've been away from the Dragon Age world for awhile. I've done 2 1/2 runs through DAII and haven't picked up any of the DLC. DAII had its pros and cons but overall I enjoyed the game (Cons for me: map repetition, junk items of no value, lack of companion customization, characters looking the same and wearing the same clothes a decade later). It took a different storytelling approach than DA:O and the voiced character was a welcome change. I give Bioware credit for trying something different instead of directly repeating DA:O. At some point I'll grab the rest of the DAII content and I look forward to what DAIII has to offer. Hats off to the developers for being involved in the forums and listening to what we all have to say.
#908
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:07
Kavatica
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RazorrX wrote...
Kavatica wrote...
RazorrX wrote...
As far as enemies go, as long as there is not the sudden 'god' at the end, but a villan that we can look back and see where the hints were, etc. I am good with never knowing who I would end up fighting until the end. How cool would it be if one of your companions was actually either the master mind or his number 1 (again as long as when you look back you can *see* that this was going on).
This kind of reminds me of what they did with Isabela in DA2. I for one, did not see that coming on my first playthrough (didn't bring her with me to see the Qun in Act 1 and apparently missed a lot of key party banter). But when I played it again I saw all the clues I missed the first time around.
Exactly! Now expand that to have the actual mastermind of (insert evil thing going on for whole game) actually be someone you *thought* you knew and trusted. Someone who was playing you the whole time. That would be cool. What would be even more awesome is if it could be a different person depending on the path you take.
Kind of like the twist in KotOR. I managed to avoid spoilers on that one and it blew my mind. I agree, unexpected plot twists are fun.
#909
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:08
Maria Caliban
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I’ve been a fan of BioWare for a few years now, and I enjoyed both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. You’re one of my favorite developers and I’ve never regretted picking up a BioWare game on day one.
I’ve also appreciated how willing you are to talk to and interact with your fans via the forums. Friday, I started a thread on the ME 3 character forums asking one of the writers some questions and she answered the day after. If you were the average game company, I’d likely have never gotten a response or even known the writer’s name.
At the same time, I worry that the conversations about DA II and ME 3 are dominated by the negative reactions. This was true for DA II even before the game came out. When DA II released, I saw people who registered and wanted to talk about a game they enjoyed, but disappeared after a few days or a week. It wasn’t a forum, it was a warzone, and no one wants to get attacked just because they liked a game.
I liked the voiced protagonist. I liked the faster paced combat. I liked the change in art style. I liked that you told a story that wasn’t ‘the chosen one faces an ancient evil that threatens the world.’ I liked that my companions had an individual look.
It feels as though popular opinion was against all those elements, so I don’t know if they’re making a return.
I thought Mark was the executive producer? That would mean that the lead designer reported to him?
I’ve also appreciated how willing you are to talk to and interact with your fans via the forums. Friday, I started a thread on the ME 3 character forums asking one of the writers some questions and she answered the day after. If you were the average game company, I’d likely have never gotten a response or even known the writer’s name.
At the same time, I worry that the conversations about DA II and ME 3 are dominated by the negative reactions. This was true for DA II even before the game came out. When DA II released, I saw people who registered and wanted to talk about a game they enjoyed, but disappeared after a few days or a week. It wasn’t a forum, it was a warzone, and no one wants to get attacked just because they liked a game.
I liked the voiced protagonist. I liked the faster paced combat. I liked the change in art style. I liked that you told a story that wasn’t ‘the chosen one faces an ancient evil that threatens the world.’ I liked that my companions had an individual look.
It feels as though popular opinion was against all those elements, so I don’t know if they’re making a return.
Fast Jimmy wrote...
So, Mark... are you going to be the Lead Designer for Dragon Age 3? I know Mike had been promoted to Creative Director and the position of Lead Designer for DA3 still unannounced... is this a sort of "reach out to the masses" manuever to segue into that announcement?
I thought Mark was the executive producer? That would mean that the lead designer reported to him?
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 mars 2012 - 12:11 .
#910
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:09
Morroian
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GeneralArrow wrote...
Sorry you feel the need to be this way, this forum has been very civil compared to Retake Mass Effect.
Not when DA2 came out it wasn't.
#911
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:10
GeneralArrow
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Shoulda seen the forums on Atari when they got bought by EA. LOL, now that was a ragefest Iike you've never seen before! Excellent post!Maria Caliban wrote...
I’ve been a fan of BioWare for a few years now, and I enjoyed both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. You’re one of my favorite developers and I’ve never regretted picking up a BioWare game on day one.
I’ve also appreciated how willing you are to talk to and interact with your fans via the forums. Friday, I started a thread on the ME 3 character forums asking one of the writers some questions and she answered the day after. If you were the average game company, I’d likely have never gotten a response or even known the writer’s name.
At the same time, I worry that the conversations about DA II and ME 3 are dominated by the negative reactions. This was true for DA II even before the game came out. When DA II released, I saw people who registered and wanted to talk about a game they enjoyed, but disappeared after a few days or a week. It wasn’t a forum, it was a warzone, and no one wants to get attacked just because they liked a game.
I liked the voiced protagonist. I liked the faster paced combat. I liked the change in art style. I liked that you told a story that wasn’t ‘the chosen one faces an ancient evil that threatens the world.’ I liked that my companions had an individual look.
It feels as though popular opinion was against all those elements, so I don’t know if they’re making a return.
Modifié par GeneralArrow, 20 mars 2012 - 12:11 .
#912
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:11
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Guest_mayrabgood_*
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Mark Darrah wrote...
We will try to bring some closure to Hawke's story but likely not in a playable form. Originally we had planned to do an expansion pack but had to stop to focus on what we are working on now.
This makes me sad since I really wanted to know what happens to Hawke and Fenris. I wanted to see more of Fenris really bad. Oh how I wish that expansion could have been done =(
I really did like DA2 and the end didn't bother me at all since it takes alot to make me not like a game. But if this means a better DA3, then I guess it's for the best. But please have Fenris come out in it =)
I hope BioWare has learned their lesson and realizes that they can't make a game quickly and expect it to be great. Take your time! But I guess time will tell. I don't want to give up on these games that I love so much because of the ME3 ending. I really don't.
I still have faith and I will keep holding the line, not just for ME but for all their games.
P.S.- Please add kiss and hug interrupts. I really missed that in DA2. Have a voiced protagonist and Cullen as a LI
Modifié par mayrabgood, 20 mars 2012 - 12:18 .
#913
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:12
g_bassi13
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I did not enjoy Dragon Age II that much (I outright hated large parts of it), but to hear that it won't even be getting a proper ending makes it worse. The one thing, one aspect of the game I actually liked was the main character Hawke. So the fact that even he/she won't be carrying over, and will not even be getting a proper finale is disappointing.
Hopefully Dragon Age III will be similar to DA: Origins in nature. Try giving the game a more natural story feel, rather then trying to force emotion like you did in DA2. With a build up to an ending that carries relevance to the rest of the game. And an ability to control the actual story with the decisions I make would be nice (I don't believe this was present in DA2). Considering the apparent difference in the support given to DAO over DA2, I'm assuming Bioware at least acknowledges these things.
If I look at both how Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 turned out (I'm aware it's not the same team), it just makes me highly skeptical towards looking at any Bioware product in the future. Despite the good products put out in the past, this recent trend of cutting corners wherever possible is getting frustrating to deal with.
Hopefully Dragon Age III will be similar to DA: Origins in nature. Try giving the game a more natural story feel, rather then trying to force emotion like you did in DA2. With a build up to an ending that carries relevance to the rest of the game. And an ability to control the actual story with the decisions I make would be nice (I don't believe this was present in DA2). Considering the apparent difference in the support given to DAO over DA2, I'm assuming Bioware at least acknowledges these things.
If I look at both how Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 turned out (I'm aware it's not the same team), it just makes me highly skeptical towards looking at any Bioware product in the future. Despite the good products put out in the past, this recent trend of cutting corners wherever possible is getting frustrating to deal with.
Modifié par g_bassi13, 20 mars 2012 - 12:13 .
#914
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:12
Sylvianus
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The first pages were more interesting. People simply gave their opinions and what mattered to them. Now I see lots of people who try to belittle others and their opinions, while valuing their own opinions.
Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 mars 2012 - 12:13 .
#915
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:13
K_Tabris
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Any chance is there is enough support for it, we can see an exalted march dlc?
I'm so disappointed, and am now even more mad about playing the Mass Effect games instead of replaying DA2. Ugh =/
I'm so disappointed, and am now even more mad about playing the Mass Effect games instead of replaying DA2. Ugh =/
#916
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:13
Hakurou
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Nooooooagh!
Dragon Age 3 better be phenomenal, y'all. I wasn't ready to cut the strings for my Hawke yet.
Dragon Age 3 better be phenomenal, y'all. I wasn't ready to cut the strings for my Hawke yet.
#917
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:14
Dejajeva
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I am posting before reading all 37 pages, so don't shoot me if I say something someone else has already said- but I hear a lot of people say they want you guys to focus more on PC gamers and to stop catering to console players, but please please please don't forget about us on console. I don't think making a game that console players can enjoy automatically makes you guys a rpg sell out. I was loaned the first dragon age on console, and then bought it, then bought the PC version as well- but I really prefer to play on console. Just because I play on xbox doesn't make me any less of a fan and certainly no less of a gamer.
Second, and I've been hearing this a lot too- that people no longer want a voiced protag- but I absolutely LOVED having Hawke voiced.
I loved DA2, but obviously could use less obnoxious waves, less repeated dungeons, and more conversations with companions.
And if you wanted to have Cullen as a companion I wouldn't complain.
Second, and I've been hearing this a lot too- that people no longer want a voiced protag- but I absolutely LOVED having Hawke voiced.
I loved DA2, but obviously could use less obnoxious waves, less repeated dungeons, and more conversations with companions.
And if you wanted to have Cullen as a companion I wouldn't complain.
#918
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:17
Guest_Puddi III_*
Guest_Puddi III_*
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I guess I'll share my two cents on suggestions:
Gameplay:
More variety. You wanted to make the classes have more distinct 'roles,' but a lot of people complained nonetheless about the loss of dual wielding and archery for warriors, for instance. I think the ideal compromise on that front would be to give dual wielding and archery back to warriors, but in a different form than rogue dual wielding and archery. So warriors would get heavy dual wielding (like the Arishok) and crossbows, for instance. It would also be neat for rogues to get a 1-handed sword tree, like the phantoms in ME3. (which would make a lot more sense in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting, TBH) And a tree that involves the use of traps. If Arcane Warrior returns, they should be allowed to invest points in a weapon tree of their choosing. These would preserve class uniqueness but prevent excessively pigeon-holing classes with 'weapon roles.'
Specializations should emphasize on bringing significantly different play styles to the table. Arcane warrior, shapeshifter, ranger all did that. Force mage did a nice job in that regard, but most of the specs in DA2 left something to be desired, IMO. Having so much meaningful choice in character building is what got me into WRPGs in the first place, so I hope DA3 will expand on that.
The tone of the combat needs to be less frenetic. While it's kind of neat seeing my 2-hander practically teleport around with his speed-dash closing attacks and carve up hordes of enemies instantly... it's way over-the-top and tacky. There should be a way to preserve some of the increased speed of DA2's system while making the animations more fluid and 'real.'
I liked the progression of the talent trees much better in DA2, and the inter-party coordination via cross-class combos. These made the combat in general terms more enjoyable, but this was countered by the wave combat and repetitive enemy types (with every humanoid group grabbing from a bag of mooks, assassins, commanders, and mages). Legacy and MotA were a step in the right direction, in that regard. DA3 should keep going in that direction.
I thought the boss fights were an improvement in DA2, but again I would emphasize less a "over the top" style. I don't know why the Duke can teleport around when he's not a mage and doesn't represent a 'speedy' archetype, but I don't like it. Meredith, of course, goes without saying... even if the idol technically makes her powers feasible, the presentation nonetheless is just... tacky.
Emphasis on noncombat gameplay is good, such as the stealth function in MotA. Rogues should obviously be better at that sort of thing, though, which MotA failed to capture. Maybe each class should have different "noncombat" roles... fadewalking, stealth, strength. Just an idea. Might be possible to re-integrate skills in here.
Art Style:
I liked the change in art style overall. I liked the slightly bolder use of color in DA2. The lifeless architecture was fitting enough of Kirkwall, but area design in general fell kind of flat, IMO. Recycled environments, of course, were bad, but some of the main environments that I spent the whole game in left something to be desired, too. Darktown, for instance, didn't fit its description at all, and looked a lot like some of the recycled cave areas. The Sundermount Dalish camp was tiny and lifeless. Hightown and Lowtown and the Docks and the Gallows were alright, but too empty all around. Attention to detail is key in all of this. It's not enough to solve the emptiness with a bunch of low-res "furniture people" or to just recycle areas less. The areas need more work put into them overall.
I liked the racial changes in general, but I think there were points where style took precedence over coherence. Like the insistence from the "design guys" that elves not wear shoes. Why? Because it's cool? It's not necessary and it only makes them hard to take seriously. There are ways to make elves look unique without making them arbitrarily all barefoot.
Darkspawn-- while I've defended the changes on general terms and the goal of making them a more cohesive "race," the implementation could have been better. Their awkward running animations might have worked if they didn't all share the same awkward running animations. Their piecemeal armor might have worked if they didn't all share the same set of piecemeal armor. I get that the goal was to make the darkspawn more unique from other enemies, and that was successful-- however, that, by itself, is only a half measure, because they're not unique from each other, which introduces the new problem of making it even more obvious that they're all clones. So I would ask that individual darkspawn be given a level of attention comparable to individual human enemies-- if they weren't wearing masks, you wouldn't give them all the exact same face, would you? They also needed to be a lot dirtier and grittier looking, overall.
The qunari redesign was pretty swell, but again, more attention to individual appearances (I believe most of their faces were identical)... and the shirtless uniform isn't really necessary either. I guess if the justification in DA2 was "shipwreck, no resources," I could possibly buy that, but I suspect the qunari in future DA installments would also be shirtless if the devs were to feel the style was well-received on its own merits.
Presentation (UI/dialog):
I found the UI fitting in DA2. The codex is kind of a mess to search through, though. I like the wheel, and the voice, but there needs to be an area set aside to display the full text of the highlighted dialog option. There should be a more expansive set of tones than simply "diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive," and the dominant tone, if such a thing returns, should simply be manually selected. The "reward" dialog options should stop being about dominant tone, and instead focus on past action choices and how those affect my character's reputation. His class/talents/re-included skills should also come into play more often.
People talk about the tactical camera a lot, but for myself, the update in the patch regarding spell targeting addressed my concerns better than even tactical camera could have.
Story:
I liked that DA2 focused on a nontraditional, more personal story, without a clear antagonist, which takes place over a long period of time. However, even with a story like that, I feel like there still needs to be some overall driving motivation to push the story along, or else the format just feels like a disjointed 'monster of the week' with no real greater purpose. In DAO there were monsters of the week, but I fought them all to get the alliances I needed to fight the archdemon. In DA2 I fought them because... they were there. This doesn't mean DA3 needs another ancient evil, or that the motivation even needs to be universal to all playthroughs. But there ought to be something beyond simply surviving the vicissitudes of life, as it were. This sense of "purpose" seems more relevant to me than the whole debate about proactive vs reactive.
As far as the monsters of the week themselves go, I thought DA2 did an okay job, but disappointed in some ways. The Arishok was great, and the Duke and Corypheus were pretty good (needed more dialog with Corypheus, though, to really sell the railroad at the end). I thought they were all fairly well developed in their 'human' motivations. The deal with Meredith and Orsino was pretty sloppy, though. Not a great way to start a fundamentally human conflict about oppression vs public safety by making the catalysts bat**** crazy. Which is not to say that fundamentally evil abominations have no place in any story in Dragon Age, or can't be done well *points to avatar*. They just may not have been the best choice for this story.
I thought the companions in DA2 were well-developed and on par with DAO. The devs have indicated a desire to add "anytime conversation" to their hubs, which is a good idea. I think a lot of people didn't like some of the companions because they had strong opinions to the point of being single-minded and irrational, but I don't think that's the same as being badly written, necessarily. Still, Varric was most people's favorite character for a reason. Might be a good idea to tone down the ideological extremism a bit... maybe. Of course, Loghain has some single-mindedness to the point of fault about him as well, and that character was well-received... Point being, forget I said anything.
As far as choices and consequences go, it's the same as with choices in character building. Meaningful story choices are important for developing my character. My definition of "meaningful" might differ however, since I think even if two choices have the same outcome, they still meaningfully develop my character in different ways. Still, actual consequences would be preferable, probably. And railroading should be more believable, when it's used. (you need to really sell why Petrice can't be killed, or why Corypheus must be killed)
I realize most of these suggestions sound more like constructive criticism of DA2 than of ideas for DA3, but I think that's kind of the point of constructive criticism for DA2 anyway (to give the devs something to think about re: DA3), so. Eh.
(I had one other suggestion, but I calculate a less than 0% chance of it being considered, so I just hope you will push Inon Zur to make the music in future installments more... iconic.)
Gameplay:
More variety. You wanted to make the classes have more distinct 'roles,' but a lot of people complained nonetheless about the loss of dual wielding and archery for warriors, for instance. I think the ideal compromise on that front would be to give dual wielding and archery back to warriors, but in a different form than rogue dual wielding and archery. So warriors would get heavy dual wielding (like the Arishok) and crossbows, for instance. It would also be neat for rogues to get a 1-handed sword tree, like the phantoms in ME3. (which would make a lot more sense in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting, TBH) And a tree that involves the use of traps. If Arcane Warrior returns, they should be allowed to invest points in a weapon tree of their choosing. These would preserve class uniqueness but prevent excessively pigeon-holing classes with 'weapon roles.'
Specializations should emphasize on bringing significantly different play styles to the table. Arcane warrior, shapeshifter, ranger all did that. Force mage did a nice job in that regard, but most of the specs in DA2 left something to be desired, IMO. Having so much meaningful choice in character building is what got me into WRPGs in the first place, so I hope DA3 will expand on that.
The tone of the combat needs to be less frenetic. While it's kind of neat seeing my 2-hander practically teleport around with his speed-dash closing attacks and carve up hordes of enemies instantly... it's way over-the-top and tacky. There should be a way to preserve some of the increased speed of DA2's system while making the animations more fluid and 'real.'
I liked the progression of the talent trees much better in DA2, and the inter-party coordination via cross-class combos. These made the combat in general terms more enjoyable, but this was countered by the wave combat and repetitive enemy types (with every humanoid group grabbing from a bag of mooks, assassins, commanders, and mages). Legacy and MotA were a step in the right direction, in that regard. DA3 should keep going in that direction.
I thought the boss fights were an improvement in DA2, but again I would emphasize less a "over the top" style. I don't know why the Duke can teleport around when he's not a mage and doesn't represent a 'speedy' archetype, but I don't like it. Meredith, of course, goes without saying... even if the idol technically makes her powers feasible, the presentation nonetheless is just... tacky.
Emphasis on noncombat gameplay is good, such as the stealth function in MotA. Rogues should obviously be better at that sort of thing, though, which MotA failed to capture. Maybe each class should have different "noncombat" roles... fadewalking, stealth, strength. Just an idea. Might be possible to re-integrate skills in here.
Art Style:
I liked the change in art style overall. I liked the slightly bolder use of color in DA2. The lifeless architecture was fitting enough of Kirkwall, but area design in general fell kind of flat, IMO. Recycled environments, of course, were bad, but some of the main environments that I spent the whole game in left something to be desired, too. Darktown, for instance, didn't fit its description at all, and looked a lot like some of the recycled cave areas. The Sundermount Dalish camp was tiny and lifeless. Hightown and Lowtown and the Docks and the Gallows were alright, but too empty all around. Attention to detail is key in all of this. It's not enough to solve the emptiness with a bunch of low-res "furniture people" or to just recycle areas less. The areas need more work put into them overall.
I liked the racial changes in general, but I think there were points where style took precedence over coherence. Like the insistence from the "design guys" that elves not wear shoes. Why? Because it's cool? It's not necessary and it only makes them hard to take seriously. There are ways to make elves look unique without making them arbitrarily all barefoot.
Darkspawn-- while I've defended the changes on general terms and the goal of making them a more cohesive "race," the implementation could have been better. Their awkward running animations might have worked if they didn't all share the same awkward running animations. Their piecemeal armor might have worked if they didn't all share the same set of piecemeal armor. I get that the goal was to make the darkspawn more unique from other enemies, and that was successful-- however, that, by itself, is only a half measure, because they're not unique from each other, which introduces the new problem of making it even more obvious that they're all clones. So I would ask that individual darkspawn be given a level of attention comparable to individual human enemies-- if they weren't wearing masks, you wouldn't give them all the exact same face, would you? They also needed to be a lot dirtier and grittier looking, overall.
The qunari redesign was pretty swell, but again, more attention to individual appearances (I believe most of their faces were identical)... and the shirtless uniform isn't really necessary either. I guess if the justification in DA2 was "shipwreck, no resources," I could possibly buy that, but I suspect the qunari in future DA installments would also be shirtless if the devs were to feel the style was well-received on its own merits.
Presentation (UI/dialog):
I found the UI fitting in DA2. The codex is kind of a mess to search through, though. I like the wheel, and the voice, but there needs to be an area set aside to display the full text of the highlighted dialog option. There should be a more expansive set of tones than simply "diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive," and the dominant tone, if such a thing returns, should simply be manually selected. The "reward" dialog options should stop being about dominant tone, and instead focus on past action choices and how those affect my character's reputation. His class/talents/re-included skills should also come into play more often.
People talk about the tactical camera a lot, but for myself, the update in the patch regarding spell targeting addressed my concerns better than even tactical camera could have.
Story:
I liked that DA2 focused on a nontraditional, more personal story, without a clear antagonist, which takes place over a long period of time. However, even with a story like that, I feel like there still needs to be some overall driving motivation to push the story along, or else the format just feels like a disjointed 'monster of the week' with no real greater purpose. In DAO there were monsters of the week, but I fought them all to get the alliances I needed to fight the archdemon. In DA2 I fought them because... they were there. This doesn't mean DA3 needs another ancient evil, or that the motivation even needs to be universal to all playthroughs. But there ought to be something beyond simply surviving the vicissitudes of life, as it were. This sense of "purpose" seems more relevant to me than the whole debate about proactive vs reactive.
As far as the monsters of the week themselves go, I thought DA2 did an okay job, but disappointed in some ways. The Arishok was great, and the Duke and Corypheus were pretty good (needed more dialog with Corypheus, though, to really sell the railroad at the end). I thought they were all fairly well developed in their 'human' motivations. The deal with Meredith and Orsino was pretty sloppy, though. Not a great way to start a fundamentally human conflict about oppression vs public safety by making the catalysts bat**** crazy. Which is not to say that fundamentally evil abominations have no place in any story in Dragon Age, or can't be done well *points to avatar*. They just may not have been the best choice for this story.
I thought the companions in DA2 were well-developed and on par with DAO. The devs have indicated a desire to add "anytime conversation" to their hubs, which is a good idea. I think a lot of people didn't like some of the companions because they had strong opinions to the point of being single-minded and irrational, but I don't think that's the same as being badly written, necessarily. Still, Varric was most people's favorite character for a reason. Might be a good idea to tone down the ideological extremism a bit... maybe. Of course, Loghain has some single-mindedness to the point of fault about him as well, and that character was well-received... Point being, forget I said anything.
As far as choices and consequences go, it's the same as with choices in character building. Meaningful story choices are important for developing my character. My definition of "meaningful" might differ however, since I think even if two choices have the same outcome, they still meaningfully develop my character in different ways. Still, actual consequences would be preferable, probably. And railroading should be more believable, when it's used. (you need to really sell why Petrice can't be killed, or why Corypheus must be killed)
I realize most of these suggestions sound more like constructive criticism of DA2 than of ideas for DA3, but I think that's kind of the point of constructive criticism for DA2 anyway (to give the devs something to think about re: DA3), so. Eh.
(I had one other suggestion, but I calculate a less than 0% chance of it being considered, so I just hope you will push Inon Zur to make the music in future installments more... iconic.)
Modifié par Filament, 20 mars 2012 - 12:17 .
#919
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:17
Evil_Emily
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I might be different to everyone else but I loved the combat system in DA2 much better but the relationship and story of DAO. If DA3 is remotely a combination of the two I expect a lot of sleepless nights falling in love with it 
I miss you Alistair and Anders It was fun!
I miss you Alistair and Anders
It was fun!
#920
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:17
LyallxFidelis
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LPPrince wrote...
I'm not gonna lie, this has now got to my head.
Heh, at least I'm not showering you with kittens and sobbing tears of joy.
That would be... painful, I'd imagine.
But I speak the truth, nothing less. If you were being a total ****** and needed a good kick in the face, I would tell you that too.
But don't let it get too much to your head, it might grow too big and fall off.
#921
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:17
Maverick827
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This is the kind of game that I'd like to play:
1. More realism in armor, weapons, combat, etc. I liked how DA2 was more responsive than DAO, but some of the animations were over the top. Conversely, some of the animations in DAO were boring. I advocated a blend of the two games a year ago and that still hasn't changed.
2. More action in combat. I think you guys did really well with melee combat in SWTOR. When I play my Sith Warrior, it really feels like I'm participating in a real fight. I'd like to see more of this in pretty much every RPG, let alone BioWare RPGs. What I'd actually like is a more action-y style, such as Assassin's Creed (with RPG stats behind it), but I don't think it would be worth the time to make that work with NPC party member gameplay.
3. No more skill trees. DA2 was certainly better than DAO in this regard, but I'm also bored of skill trees. In Skyrim, I looked forward to that shield charge ability that required 100 block, but I still have yet to get block up that high on any character – I always start something else or re-roll. By the time I would get the skill legitimately, I would have seen at least a third of the game, if not probably more.
The point is, skill trees only postpone you from having fun things. I can sort of understand why this is used in non-story based RPGs, because in that case the entire point is to make your character more powerful, but we play BioWare games to see the story. I'd prefer skill system where we had access to all (I'd settle for most) skills and spells at the beginning, so that our character builds could more accurately reflect our characters themselves.
I'd rather not see “Archery doesn't get good until 20” or “you can make a battle mage, but you need three specializations and most of your total points. But hey, that last fight when you're finally ready is fun for five minutes!” again.
4. Bring back playable Elves and Dwarves, but keep player character voice acting. These three races could, believably, share the same voice actor. You'd obviously have to tinker with each race's background a bit (“...raised by X”), but we've heard all sorts of accents on each race and it's been fine so far.
5. Steal your player's mods. What are the most popular mods that get made for your games? Well, nude mods. But those aside, you'll find things like hair, face and eye mods are typically the most popular. I think this is a pretty clear signal that character creation should be one of the largest things BioWare should look into as a whole.
Another big one is saved game managers. The game should, from the start, create profiles for [i]characters[i], not rely saved games. I want to say you should even throw in a character select screen a la MMOs. It's not completely terrible as it is, but I'm quite adapt with computers and I still feel paranoid that I'm going to break something by deleting a save somewhere.
Finally, weapons and armor, especially ones that are so powerful you can use them for the entire game, are pretty common. Some people like advancing, but some people like looking the same for the entire game. I'd say use something like you did in SWTOR: magical properties on items should come solely from their runes, which would be freely transferable between items. No need for an out-of-character appearance tab while reaping the same benefits.
6. I'd personally prefer a greater focus on healing. I don't want to be spamming heals like I'm raiding hardcore in WoW, but I want more than one or two per encounter. On that same note, I want my tanks sturdier and boss combat to be less two-shotty. I really don't like how many strategies in BioWare games tend to boil down to “run around in circles because you'll be one shot if you don't, and eventually find a way to win somehow.”
1. More realism in armor, weapons, combat, etc. I liked how DA2 was more responsive than DAO, but some of the animations were over the top. Conversely, some of the animations in DAO were boring. I advocated a blend of the two games a year ago and that still hasn't changed.
2. More action in combat. I think you guys did really well with melee combat in SWTOR. When I play my Sith Warrior, it really feels like I'm participating in a real fight. I'd like to see more of this in pretty much every RPG, let alone BioWare RPGs. What I'd actually like is a more action-y style, such as Assassin's Creed (with RPG stats behind it), but I don't think it would be worth the time to make that work with NPC party member gameplay.
3. No more skill trees. DA2 was certainly better than DAO in this regard, but I'm also bored of skill trees. In Skyrim, I looked forward to that shield charge ability that required 100 block, but I still have yet to get block up that high on any character – I always start something else or re-roll. By the time I would get the skill legitimately, I would have seen at least a third of the game, if not probably more.
The point is, skill trees only postpone you from having fun things. I can sort of understand why this is used in non-story based RPGs, because in that case the entire point is to make your character more powerful, but we play BioWare games to see the story. I'd prefer skill system where we had access to all (I'd settle for most) skills and spells at the beginning, so that our character builds could more accurately reflect our characters themselves.
I'd rather not see “Archery doesn't get good until 20” or “you can make a battle mage, but you need three specializations and most of your total points. But hey, that last fight when you're finally ready is fun for five minutes!” again.
4. Bring back playable Elves and Dwarves, but keep player character voice acting. These three races could, believably, share the same voice actor. You'd obviously have to tinker with each race's background a bit (“...raised by X”), but we've heard all sorts of accents on each race and it's been fine so far.
5. Steal your player's mods. What are the most popular mods that get made for your games? Well, nude mods. But those aside, you'll find things like hair, face and eye mods are typically the most popular. I think this is a pretty clear signal that character creation should be one of the largest things BioWare should look into as a whole.
Another big one is saved game managers. The game should, from the start, create profiles for [i]characters[i], not rely saved games. I want to say you should even throw in a character select screen a la MMOs. It's not completely terrible as it is, but I'm quite adapt with computers and I still feel paranoid that I'm going to break something by deleting a save somewhere.
Finally, weapons and armor, especially ones that are so powerful you can use them for the entire game, are pretty common. Some people like advancing, but some people like looking the same for the entire game. I'd say use something like you did in SWTOR: magical properties on items should come solely from their runes, which would be freely transferable between items. No need for an out-of-character appearance tab while reaping the same benefits.
6. I'd personally prefer a greater focus on healing. I don't want to be spamming heals like I'm raiding hardcore in WoW, but I want more than one or two per encounter. On that same note, I want my tanks sturdier and boss combat to be less two-shotty. I really don't like how many strategies in BioWare games tend to boil down to “run around in circles because you'll be one shot if you don't, and eventually find a way to win somehow.”
Modifié par Maverick827, 20 mars 2012 - 12:18 .
#922
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:18
MysterD
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About a DA2: Exalted Marches expansion...Is this like say a DLC in size [somewhere up to say maybe 7 hours]?
Or more like say an DA: Awakening expansion in size [around 15-30 hours]?
Could there be any chance BioWare has some other developer go on take what y'all had and go on to finish it up?
Oh, I'm thinking like another really good RPG house
Like...maybe Obsidian?
Or more like say an DA: Awakening expansion in size [around 15-30 hours]?
Could there be any chance BioWare has some other developer go on take what y'all had and go on to finish it up?
Oh, I'm thinking like another really good RPG house
Like...maybe Obsidian?
Modifié par MysterD, 20 mars 2012 - 12:20 .
#923
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:19
Xerxes52
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Unfortunate, I would have enjoyed an expansion for DA2, despite its flaws.
Here's some suggestions I have for DA3:
Keep the voiced protagonist.
Introduce a primary threat or villain to fight against (i.e. Archdemon, Arishok, The Mother, etc).
Scrap the Act system. While each act on its own was decent, having the multi-year breaks in between each fractured the storyline too much imo. The timeline of the story should be somewhat nebulous like in DA:O.
Keep the iconic one-piece outfits from DA2. Include more outfits though (each with their own bonuses, like +25% health, +15% critical chance, etc). The base armor values should automatically level. The protagonist should have a few of these one-piece outfits to choose from as well, but they should be rare items.
Reintroduce item tiers from DA:O. Include a way to upgrade items into higher tiers (i.e. a legitimate version of the storage box exploit from Warden's Keep).
Accessories (Rings, belts, amulets) should be rare, but powerful items.
Keep the DA2 crafting system.
Allow us to remove runes from items. Runes should still behave like they do in DA2 (i.e. their strength is determined by the strength of the item they're put into).
Keep the current ability tree system.
Slow the combat down slightly from DA2. Remove some of the overtly flashy animations from DA2. Maybe reintroduce finishing animations.
Keep the "Helmet: On/Off" option.
Reintroduce female dwarves and introduce female kossith.
Here's some suggestions I have for DA3:
Keep the voiced protagonist.
Introduce a primary threat or villain to fight against (i.e. Archdemon, Arishok, The Mother, etc).
Scrap the Act system. While each act on its own was decent, having the multi-year breaks in between each fractured the storyline too much imo. The timeline of the story should be somewhat nebulous like in DA:O.
Keep the iconic one-piece outfits from DA2. Include more outfits though (each with their own bonuses, like +25% health, +15% critical chance, etc). The base armor values should automatically level. The protagonist should have a few of these one-piece outfits to choose from as well, but they should be rare items.
Reintroduce item tiers from DA:O. Include a way to upgrade items into higher tiers (i.e. a legitimate version of the storage box exploit from Warden's Keep).
Accessories (Rings, belts, amulets) should be rare, but powerful items.
Keep the DA2 crafting system.
Allow us to remove runes from items. Runes should still behave like they do in DA2 (i.e. their strength is determined by the strength of the item they're put into).
Keep the current ability tree system.
Slow the combat down slightly from DA2. Remove some of the overtly flashy animations from DA2. Maybe reintroduce finishing animations.
Keep the "Helmet: On/Off" option.
Reintroduce female dwarves and introduce female kossith.
Modifié par Xerxes52, 20 mars 2012 - 12:20 .
#924
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:20
LPPrince
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LyallxFidelis wrote...
But don't let it get too much to your head, it might grow too big and fall off.
The Bioware devs already know just how big my head can get when I know things.
I came up with Biotic Nova for the ME3 Vanguard. Gave the idea to Christina Norman back in April of last year when she still worked for Bioware.
I had a biodev(won't name him/her) tell me via PM the reason they won't outright say it was my idea was...wait for it...
It'd get to my head.
LAAAAAAAAWL
I love these guys/gals.
#925
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 12:21
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Guest_mayrabgood_*
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NovinhaShepard wrote...
Any chance is there is enough support for it, we can see an exalted march dlc?
I'm so disappointed, and am now even more mad about playing the Mass Effect games instead of replaying DA2. Ugh =/
Yes. THIS ^
If people really want it, can it be done?
