2816 réponses à ce sujet

[flaxans]

I actually liked a few elements of DA2 over DA1 but I'll probably list them in a pros and cons format for easy viewing:

Liked:
Combat system felt more streamlined and well...fun.
Switch to Mass Effect dialogue wheel
Art style and redesigns of Flementh and the Quanari.
Art direction was better than Origins. It had its own character.
Kirkwall almost felt like a real city.

Disliked:
The fact that there were always 2 waves of enemies.
Recycled dungeons. It made the game boring.
Disjointed plot. I don't necessarily want to play a Lord of the Rings style epic but I like my fantasies to have a cohesive beginning, middle and end. DA2 just felt badly strung together and the motivations of the Templars and the mages felt forced.
There were also a lot of graphic glitches.
Lack of armour and weapon customisation.

I'd actually like to see a game from the eyes of a lowly soldier and his squad. We always see stories of key figures or characters thrusted into the limelight but never a story of just a bunch of grunts. I've always wanted to see a game version of Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen because they concentrate on the lowly soldier.
I think something like that in the DA universe would be awesome.

[Dark Pen]

I have only one real concern:

You know what was awesome about DA:O? Being able to shoot the **** with my companions whenever I wanted. You know what freaking sucked? Finding out that the pirate chick is leaving my party FOREVER because I couldn't ever get her to be happy with my decisions during the FEW TIMES I had her in my party.

Yeah.

Seriously, I want to be able to just chat with my crew like you could in DA:O. As much as I love FemHawk, I really enjoy my silent protagonist too.

Another thing would be to avoid repeating the biggest eyesore of Dragon Age II: recycling areas. Like. Seriously. You know what doesn't make sense? Me not being able to go back to an area that I "finished" to pick up whatever companion armor upgrade I missed the first time because OH LOOK ITS A WHOLE NEW QUEST AND TOTALLY NOT THE SAME AREA.

Its one thing when the player's crossed the chapter threshold and items in areas are reset or whatever, but what you guys did with DA2's zones was supremely lame.

Oh, and another thing. The items in DA2. Just... what the ****. Are you guys for real? Seriously? Seriously? Just wow. There's a reason why people call DA2 possibly the laziest game they'd ever played. I mean good god.

You know what's awesome about RPGs? The loot. For as long as RPGs have existed, the loot has been something of a thing. I don't know what kind of design philsophy kneejerk you guys stumbled into during its development, but please just go back and analyze what was good and what was bad about how loot was done in DA:O and just try again, because DAII certainly wasn't the answer.

I'd give a more specific complaint if I could remember more of what I disliked about DAII (or for that matter, the criticisms of DA:O's few failings, if any), but its been too long, and I think I blocked out most of the stuff I disliked anyways.

Modifié par Dark Pen, 20 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Korusus]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

I felt the same way when Ken Rolston left Bethesda.  I hated Oblivion.  But they learned from their mistakes and got better, and I'm hoping BioWare does the same thing.

[Periph]

I loved DA2. I liked it better than DA:O, which I know isn't common.

Some reasons why:

• It had a tighter, more focused story. It didn't try to cover the whole country. It told the story of one city. You got to see the consquences of your actions, not just read about them in the epilogue.
• You got to see your companions grow and change over the course of years, not weeks.
• Companions had their own lives. They talked to each other and visited each other. They had things to do when Hawke wasn't around. They didn't sit around camp being bored.
• It didn't have a clear Big Bad. It didn't try to be a typical epic fantasy story. You knew from the start things would fall apart, and the goal was trying to contain the mess as much as possible.
• It was shorter, which made several playthroughs much more feasible. I enjoyed DA:O, but I can't make myself replay it enough times to see all the differences in story I'd like to.
• Less control over where the story could end up meant more chances for that story to be mentioned later, so I thought it was a fair trade. No sequel can safely use the god-baby as a plot point because it might not have happened.

Things I DIDN'T like about DA2:

• Map reuse. Seeing the same cave over and over got tedious.
• Magical enemy respawns. Being unable to leave the area until all magical respawns are dead.
• The intro was much too long. Act I should have been half as long at most. The story didn't really start until Act II.
• Orsino flipping out and attacking Hawke if Hawke chooses the mages didn't make much sense.
• Meredith being controlled by the idol didn't either. And for that matter, isn't raw lyrium supposed to be lethal?
• No alternate outfits for companions unless they're romanced. I don't care about choosing their armor and stats, but I do like how Mass Effect gives a couple distinct options.

Modifié par Periph, 20 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[KHVDW]

 My wife and I were very disappointed in Dragon Age II.  We had played DAO on the PS3, and concluded we really should have played it on the PC.  We have played PC RPGs for decades, but the console has the widescreen and surround sound.

So we bought DA2 for the PC... only to find that the controls were all changed around to be more action-oriented for the console and designed around a gamepad.  Except I didn't even see options for gamepad controls with the PC.

That aside, we never managed to get in to DA2.  The gameplay, the story... all seemed an unwelcome departure from DAO.  Tried renting it for PS3... nope.  We have played Bioware games back to Baldur's Gate, and DA2 was by far our least favorite.

So in short, please go back towards a more tactical, PC oriented RPG.  We don't want an RPG that tries to be a console action game.  We don't want an overly clever story within a story.  We want tactical combat - heck, I would even enjoy turn-based, but something in the pause and play style of DAO with full tactical control of the squad.  I love the Mass Effect games, and I understand the shooter elements incorporated in to them (though ME2 went too shooter not enough RPG).  I really feel a more traditional tactical combat system is a much better fit for Dragon Age.

Focus on RPG elements, strong characters, a wide variety of environments and settings rather than super linear story with backtracking, tactical combat, and marry that to strong graphics/animations/voice acting (DAO was rather dated on graphics but solid on animations and voice acting).  I can go for either the Sheppard/Hawke style defined character or a more traditional cypher-style RPG character, pluses to both, as long as the other characters and script are good.

Because of our experience with DA2, Dragon Age III won't be a guaranteed sale for us like all the previous BG/DA/ME games.  We'll have to be convinced it's actually a solid fantasy RPG again.  And the price points on all the bit and piece DLC with DA/ME has not been a good trend, either - much preferred paying more for full-fledged expansion packs (or LESS for 2 hour content DLC and cosmetic crap).  Being forced to use Origin is also a real negative for us.  These experiences combined have taken us from guaranteed Bioware customers to folks who will be carefully evaluating which of your products we buy and how much money we are willing to spend on them.  Here's hoping you get back to being a top quality RPG company instead of focusing on maximize marketability and profits.

[JudgeRAW00]

The only problem I really had with DAII was the reused environments. In terms of story and gameplay I felt that the story was much better, more personal, and more intriguing than the first one ever was. The DA1 story was fantasy standard faire, while the DA2 story was dripping with intrigue and politics of the city it was set in. You saw Hawke rise to become a major player in the politics of the city, and a number of interesting characters surrounded him.

The gameplay, I enjoyed the faster pace of it, I didn't think it was too much of a change from DA1, though perhaps making there be two forms of gameplay in the next one might be the way to go. For the people that enjoyed the way things were done in DA1 in terms of gameplay I think it'd be good to have an option to play like that, slower and more strategic, But I also think the DA2 gameplay is more fun and enjoyable for most gamers

[geowolf]

make sure it gets on steam doesn't use origin and ill be happy same for mass effect 3

[hunterxx1xx]

Korusus wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

I felt the same way when Ken Rolston left Bethesda.  I hated Oblivion.  But they learned from their mistakes and got better, and I'm hoping BioWare does the same thing.

Would be nice that's for sure.

[Rorschachinstein]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

no risk no gain

[Katsuya Kaiba]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

If he left because Bioware is no longer the same company, he's sure not going to come back now.

[MiklCraw4d]

Also, I kind of hate there will never be a satisfactory in-game conclusion to the arc and characters of DA2, but I understand the desire to move over and start fresh.

My disappointment with DA2 was so much greater because the buzz was that it featured an increased focus on interpersonal relationships and "politics". I like those aspects of RPGs - the "talking" as opposed to the "fighting". I hope BW doesn't take DA2's failure as a condemnation of those specific aspects - I think being able to follow a "diplomatic" path through a story is essential to an RPG in the BioWare tradition. And, ya know, talkin' up the ladies and so forth.

[SokiMo]

[quote]Rorschachinstein wrote...

[quote]pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

[quote]Rorschachinstein wrote...

[quote]hunterxx1xx wrote...

[quote]pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

It would be great to throw DAII in the garbage and go back to what made DA:O so great. Don't dumb the game down. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! DAII was the Phantom Menace of the series. DA:O was one of my top 5 games of this generation. The putrid sequel was such a monstrous letdown.[/quote]

And they want to continue this madness to. They say they will take the best of both games but this is not going to happen because "we have an audience that likes DA2". Such crap! 

[/quote]

There is a an audience that liked DA2. They're called console users.



I don't have a current console ( no ps3 , 360) , nothing since the ps2 .  I am mostly  a PC gamer .( I love my Katamari games , sue me )

I LOVED Dragon Age 2 , and I am not afraid to admit it . 

Yeah it had flaws but it was still enjoyable . 
Seems some people here have " I DON'T LIKE IT SO NO ONE SHOULD " mentality . 

[Dejajeva]

Why does everyone always look down on console gamers? I have every right to be considered a "real" gamer. I get so annoyed that people refer to console gamers like we're a bunch of ignorant kids who wouldn't know the difference between a good and bad game if Anders blew the bad one up.

[hunterxx1xx]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

no risk no gain

Origins sold over 3 million copies. Why risk anything? lol. Make some improvements. Don't completely change the game.

[Realmzmaster]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

It would be great to throw DAII in the garbage and go back to what made DA:O so great. Don't dumb the game down. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! DAII was the Phantom Menace of the series. DA:O was one of my top 5 games of this generation. The putrid sequel was such a monstrous letdown.

And they want to continue this madness to. They say they will take the best of both games but this is not going to happen because "we have an audience that likes DA2". Such crap! 

There is a an audience that liked DA2. They're called console users.

I liked DA2 and I game on a PC. I have been doing so since 1979. There are quite a few of us who like DA2 on the PC.

[hunterxx1xx]

[quote]SokiMo wrote...

[quote]Rorschachinstein wrote...

[quote]pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

[quote]Rorschachinstein wrote...

[quote]hunterxx1xx wrote...

[quote]pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

It would be great to throw DAII in the garbage and go back to what made DA:O so great. Don't dumb the game down. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! DAII was the Phantom Menace of the series. DA:O was one of my top 5 games of this generation. The putrid sequel was such a monstrous letdown.[/quote]

And they want to continue this madness to. They say they will take the best of both games but this is not going to happen because "we have an audience that likes DA2". Such crap! 

[/quote]

There is a an audience that liked DA2. They're called console users.



I don't have a current console ( no ps3 , 360) , nothing since the ps2 .  I am mostly  a PC gamer .( I love my Katamari games , sue me )

I LOVED Dragon Age 2 , and I am not afraid to admit it . 

Yeah it had flaws but it was still enjoyable . 
Seems some people here have " I DON'T LIKE IT SO NO ONE SHOULD " mentality . 

[/quote]

You have every right to like it. I'm just upset because I was expecting Origins with some improvements, not almost completely changed. 

[Korusus]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

no risk no gain

I don't know, I think developing Dragon Age: Origins was pretty risky.  It had the deck stacked against it:

1) It was PC-exclusive at first

2) It was in development for so long it was almost considered vapor-ware

3) It was an RPG in a time when the gaming community had all but given up on the genre

Everyone said a top-down, isometric, strategic tactical BG2-style spiritual successor just could not work.  What happened?  It's BioWare's most successful game to date.

DA2 buys into all the skepticism about RPGs in the modern gaming market, it says that old style of game can't work anymore, it adopts the Mass Effect philosophy of less choice, less freedom, and more cinematics and what happens...it's BioWare's worst performing game since Jade Empire.

DA:O shouldn't have worked.  Even BioWare believes that, DA2 proves it.  Laidlaw thinks DA:O shouldn't have worked.  And yet it did work.  Masterfully.

Modifié par Korusus, 20 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[Morroian]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

Such decisions are not made by 1 person.

[akashacatbat]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

Heh, David Gaider doesn't break your heart and/or will to live by giving you the non-ending to end all non-endings.

I really loved both Dragon Ages. Hoping there will be more games in this line when EA is through making a RPG company develop a war strategy game.

[hunterxx1xx]

Morroian wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

Such decisions are not made by 1 person.

He was lead designer. Pretty sure his thoughts carry a lot of weight. I agree with you though, I'm sure it wasn't completely up to him.

[SokiMo]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

It would be great to throw DAII in the garbage and go back to what made DA:O so great. Don't dumb the game down. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! DAII was the Phantom Menace of the series. DA:O was one of my top 5 games of this generation. The putrid sequel was such a monstrous letdown.

And they want to continue this madness to. They say they will take the best of both games but this is not going to happen because "we have an audience that likes DA2". Such crap! 

There is a an audience that liked DA2. They're called console users.

I'm a console user...loved DA:O and DA2 did not come near my expectations. 

I am exclusively a PC gamer .
And I loved  DA2 . I am not afraid to say it . 

Yeah it had its flaws and they did something different but it was enjoyable.

Seems a lot of " DIFFERENT ! WHY IS IT DIFFERENT ! I HATE DIFFERENT "    and a nice handful of  " I DON'T LIKE IT SO NO ONE SHOULD  AND IF THEY DO THEY ARE BIG POOPOO HEADS"  is going on here .

Haters gonna hate I suppose.

[Realmzmaster]

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Katsuya Kaiba wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Brent Knowles is the reason why Origins was great. Without him at the helm it won't change.

What about David Gaider?

What about him? Brent Knowles was the lead designer for Origins and left because Bioware was no longer the same company. Laidlaw comes in and we get DA2. Why he decided to change it the way he did? who knows.

Without David Gaider there is no DA. The universe and setting are from his imagination. Most of the characters were created by him and then given to the other writers to create the stories. Brent Knowles pull everything together, but with out the spark plug which is David Gaider there is no DA.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 20 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[akashacatbat]

Korusus wrote...

DA2 buys into all the skepticism about RPGs in the modern gaming market, it says that old style of game can't work anymore, it adopts the Mass Effect philosophy of less choice, less freedom, and more cinematics and what happens...it's BioWare's worst performing game since Jade Empire.

I liked Jade Empire. I was actually hoping it would be updated for the 360, but if this is true I guess that won't happen.

[Katsuya Kaiba]

SokiMo wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

pr0t0cl0wn wrote...

It would be great to throw DAII in the garbage and go back to what made DA:O so great. Don't dumb the game down. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! DAII was the Phantom Menace of the series. DA:O was one of my top 5 games of this generation. The putrid sequel was such a monstrous letdown.

And they want to continue this madness to. They say they will take the best of both games but this is not going to happen because "we have an audience that likes DA2". Such crap! 

There is a an audience that liked DA2. They're called console users.

I'm a console user...loved DA:O and DA2 did not come near my expectations. 

I am exclusively a PC gamer .
And I loved  DA2 . I am not afraid to say it . 

Yeah it had its flaws and they did something different but it was enjoyable.

Seems a lot of " DIFFERENT ! WHY IS IT DIFFERENT ! I HATE DIFFERENT "    and a nice handful of  " I DON'T LIKE IT SO NO ONE SHOULD  AND IF THEY DO THEY ARE BIG POOPOO HEADS"  is going on here .

Haters gonna hate I suppose.

Eh, Bioware tried something different with the little time it got from EA. (Seriously, according to Kotaku EA pushed for DA2 to be done quickly to follow DA: O's popularity.) And while it wasn't what people expected, with how little time Bioware had to put this out, it is still pretty impressive. I liked it.