2816 réponses à ce sujet

[LegendaryBlade]

"Mike Laidlaw noted in an interview with Gamespot that a return to the RPG style of Dragon Age: Origins is unlikely, proclaiming "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this."

Dragonage III is going to be a failure for just this reason.

EDIT: Meanwhile, Overhaul Games wants to make Baldur's Gate III if their remake of BG1&2 sells well. Support them.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 20 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Luke Plunkett from Kotaku put it best in this nifty quote:

"hey, you know the first Dragon Age, make another game like that again"

So yea, how about that? Origins, multiple playable races, actual tactical gameplay, likable characters, a better dialogue system (Stop paraphrasing responses, get rid of the dialogue wheel because it taints the users perspective of morality. Don't kid yourselves, everyone knows the top choice is the "Good/Paragon/Nice Guy" option and the bottom choice is the "Bad/Renegade/Douche" option. It limits roleplaying, it limits immersion when YOU tell us what the good and bad options are.)


DAO worked wonderfully, DA2 didn't. It's an easy choice. But hey, if you don't, and you want to make a game that will sell just as bad as DA2, I'm sure Wasteland 2 and the BG remakes are going to be awesome, not to mention the inevitable Witcher 3.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 20 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[Crazed Weevil]

Sorry Mark, you sound like a decent chap, but it's too late.

It seems that both the Dragon Age and Mass Effect teams have collectively lost their minds. Dragon Age Origins was one of the best games I've every played but then Dragon Age II changed nearly everything that was good about it into to a horrible mess. It was so annoying to see as I can see parts of the first game trying to get out but it's been drowned out by the terrible design choices. Criticism was met my either being ignored or name calling; 'entitled', 'spoiled', or 'you just don't understand'.

Well I decided then that I would not be buying any other Dragon Age games and that Mass Effect 3 would be my last Bioware game thinking that their team couldn't possible mess it up now...sadly I was wrong...dear god was I wrong.

So now I am faced with a Bioware that was once the best damn games company I knew, who made some of the best games ever made, but who has sadly gone mad. What would you do in my place?

[lustpuppet8u]

I'm excited to see what comes next.

[Clarian]

PinkShoes wrote...
I dont think a bad game means the series is dead.

For a story-centric series, I think a bad game means the series is dead.  For me, at least.  Here's why:

If I have to rush out of the theater and miss the second act of a play, I'm not going to come back for the third.  I would just know that I'd missed too much.

I'm not going to watch season 4 of Battlestar Galactica if I haven't watched season 3.  

Now: I stopped playing DA2 before I even started the Deep Roads expedition.  It was a slog to even get that far.  Origins was captivating and got me immediately invested in the characters and the world; 2 wasn't, and didn't.

Since I didn't play 2, I have no interest in anything after, just like I wouldn't watch act 3 of a play if I had to skip act 2.

[spol22]

I did like Origins a lot and I thought DA 2 was a good game, but not as epic as a Bioware game should be. I believe the game should head more in Mass Effect's direction, with real-time combat (maybe a little bit like Jade Empire, I love that game) and simple RPG-mechanics. The story of DA2 was simply not as compelling as Origins or ME.

[Plaguemaster]

If you want to learn from others' experience, take notes at Aplpha Protocol. It suffered horribly from bad optimisation BUT every critic praised the game for variety of decisions. Literally EVERY decision have consequences.
Brief interaction and your reaction with some minor character decides some option at the final stages. your intercation and responces with handlers decide game outcome. In the final dialogue you will be asked about your very first dialogue responces. You may kill or spare some characters and that leads to different missions and opportunities. Even endings may be different, because you may gain "Influence points" with enemies as well as allies and neutrals. Also, if you decide to join your main antagonist in the end, you have different options how to do it.
And that is a SHOOTER, with minor RPG elements.
In my opinion RPG should use even more complex system with various non-linear storylines.
That is why The Witcher 2 is praised and acclaimed by critics. That is why people liked Origins.

[Eravathar]

I still havn't played DAII, as I heard a lot of bad things about it from friends who tired it out. I have a few wishes for DA3 despite that though.

- More fun abilities in the combat system, which should be pretty strategy oriented.
- Storydriven. Make the characters in the party have flashbacks, letting us play as them during an important time of their life. That way we get to know the characters better and it demands you think a lot about a characters personality and how they're going to interact.
- Put more time into animations. I thought the warrior animations in the first game were a bit dull.
- A bit more open. Sometimes it feels like I'm constantly rushing through a corridor. Perhaps it would be a good idea to be able to walk through zones in an open world? It would give you a lot to think about concerning landscape and creating beautiful environments.
- Make sure every fight has a reason. It gets a bit boring just slaying things because "they're bandits". You just sigh and cut through them quickly to get to the next portion of the story, which is what you really want to get to.
- Bring back characters. I wasn't finished with my romance with Leliana, and I miss my friend Alistair. Make it happen!
- Think about your customers. Don't spam us with DLC we have to pay extra for, and don't act paranoid around your income. It makes you look bad and it certainly influenced me not to buy DA2 or ME3. Don't even dare to hand out another pre-ordering bonus that affects gameplay. It gets on peoples nerves.

Edit: Remember. The key to this game is story. That is its' greatest strenght. When you make DA3, think "Interactive Story Book" and make sure the stories are enchanting and exciting and you will most likely end up fine.

Modifié par Eravathar, 20 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Miss Stabby]

Please whatever you do with the game..

Include more than 1 city!

When i started playing DA2 i thought like, 

"wow they really paint this town dreary and unpleasant, that must be so that i'll be motivated to move out to different parts of the lands!"

How wrong i was...
I loved the scope of DA1 where you'd have to visit each race's hometown and discover things like the orzammar, the deep roads, the circle of magi, the forrests and the big city of denerim. those were lovely places that could be visited at any time and sometimes i just went to places to enjoy the view and talk to the people there. 
(and do sidequests)



For the rest of the pointers:
Some might already be named in the 60+ pages that came before this post
but this is just my personal take of the problems i had with DA2.

• Over the top kungfu knife/swordfights should be removed, there's nothing realistic about it.
  
• No cooldown on health/magic potions, that is cooldown is just rediculous!
  If i want to binge on health potions in order to stay alive, let me!
  Even though it  will cost a fortune to keep it up at such a pace.
  
• Enemy waves that spawn from the sky or the ground should be removed, this respawning gives a wrong tactical view on the battle and ends people into trouble after unforseen heavy enemies join the fight.
  knowing that you'll walk into a battle with a few dangerous units will make you more cautious, or you'll enjoy getting rid of a few low level enemies a lot more!
  
• Please add the strategy top down perspective back to the game, it makes things much more organised.
  
  
• Be more carefull with how... "ample"... you make the female characters. Seeing Flemeth with cup E was just laughable... 
  
• Do something about the whole "bloodmage" thing, first i see people freaking out about bloodmages and having all bloodmages be instantly hostile... EVEN though you are a bloodmage yourself.
  And when you are a bloodmage you still have to take part in quests that have you eliminate bloodmage strongholds because they were  "eeeevil"
  
• A last thing that should really be improved is the layout of the story and have it be kind of clear (even though not completely right because of plottwists) in the first 2 or 3 hours of play.
  When DA2 released, me and a friend started playing at the same time. and 5 hours in i was asking him "so did you figure out what the story is about?" he replied 
  "nope".
  The same happened at 10 and 15 hours in the game!
  Only about 22 hours into the game i figured out why i was doing what i was doing, that's not very good!

And then there's just oooone last thing... 

Please bioware, please...

RELEASE ON STEAM

Thanks!

Modifié par Miss Stabby, 20 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[empetus]

Hello, I noticed this posting from Rpg watch and wanted to say why I didn't buy Dragon Age 2 and had no desire to purchase that game.

1. I don't want an arcadey action rpg, I'm simply not interested in that style of game for my rpgs. One look at game videos showing the combat and it told me I would not like your new direction to say the least. You guys went from tactical style and interesting squad level combat to a frantic speeded up-button pressing, no thinking, arcade game. If I'm in the mood for this kind of game I will play a first person shooter, which is much more well done in this area because it is such a major focus of the game, thanks.

2. I could go on and on but suffice it to say everything you did right in Dragon Age Origins, you did wrong in Dragon Age 2. I can tell this from watching game play videos and reading feedback. That said, While Dragon Age Origins was a good game, it was still not in the same league as your past classic, the Baldur's Gate series. You say you are going to re-examine your back catalog, then I suggest when you do so to consider copying just about every aspect of Baldur's Gate (except the obvious outdated 2d style graphics) and design Dragon Age 3 around that goal. In game news, it has recently been announced that Baldur's Gate is being re-done and updated, and I hope it will not prove to be too embarrassing for Bioware if Dragon Age 3 comes out and people look at the two games side by side. If you folks get back to your roots with DA 3 then perhaps the comparison will not reflect as badly as could be expected. Taking inspiration from one of the best rpgs in history certainly couldn't hurt.

If you are interested in me being a customer of Dragon Age 3 this is what I would like to see.

3. It has been said there will be a voiced main character. Ok, that is fine, it was done magnificently in another rpg classic, Gothic, and I enjoyed it a lot there. Why? Because the voice actor was superb, and I enjoyed listening to him throughout the game. It is a very tricky thing though. For example, I play adventure games and often they are voiced. If I don't care for the main characters voice, then I don't buy the game. So it is very important that you pick a phenomenal voice actor in the main part, because otherwise it can ruin the entire game. That is why it is such a tricky matter, to get the main voice actor just right, so that they will not get annoying and will not have a bad style that might get on peoples' nerves later in the game. The best option would be to allow for several voice sets to choose from, but I can see why that would not be feasible from a cost point of view, if there is a lot of dialog in the game. A fallback option could be to allow the main character to be silent, so if players don't care for the voice they can turn it off permanently. This leads to my next suggestion...

4. The conversation wheel. There has been talk about this, and it is easily solved by giving an option to the players to see the entire lines of text before the character speaks, old school. This seems to be a simple fix, and those who don't want it can elect not to turn the option on. It is always good to give players options in my view.

5. The following is one of my most important factors on whether I will buy a game nowadays. Make a PC version of the game that accounts for the pc completely! I do not own a console and never have, I don't want any console ports of a game. I want a game designed with the pc interface in mind and taken advantage of - mouse, keyboard, etc. This is a big reason I didnt buy Skyrim, they totally skimped and forgot about the PC interface and thus leads to no sale from me! Maybe there will be fan-made mods made in the future for it but that doesn't matter, if the game maker does not care about me as a PC game player, by making a strong effort of putting a special version of the interface for the PC, and not simply translating a console interface to the pc as an afterthought, then I'm not interested in buying their game, period.

I hope my feedback will prove useful.

Modifié par empetus, 20 mars 2012 - 01:17 .

[Master Shiori]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"Mike Laidlaw noted in an interview with Gamespot that a return to the RPG style of Dragon Age: Origins is unlikely, proclaiming "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this."

Dragonage III is going to be a failure for just this reason.

So, DA:O was perfect in your mind and any change to that formula is a failure? Come on!

You can make DA3 a better game without making it DA:O 2.0. The fact Bioware is willing to gather feedback from us on what we did and didn't like in DA2 shows they are trying to improve. 

Telling them: "get back to DA:O or you fail" won't accomplish anything.

[StingingVelvet]

Just make Origins again with some graphical and interface improvements. Not a hard concept to grasp really. That game reviewed well and sold well. You're never going to get 10 million casual gamers to play a tactical RPG, there is no forum idea that will make that happen.

Budget accordingly and make another Dragon Age: Origins or move on and make something else.

[Yngvildr the Voracious]

I think you should do something like DAO was but with the story arc you started to explore in DAII. Here it is : We're in a world that's changing A LOT : Mages don't want to be prisoners anymore, it's chaos, there's a lot of abominations AND normal, scared mages and people. The templars and the mages could hire someone to resolve this situation peacefully or by organising a violent terrorist action. I mean, I really liked the story arc and characters depth in DAII. Too bad the rest of the game was not up to that, though. Plus, we still don't know what Flemeth is up to. Does she just want to live ? Does she want revenge on Morrigan ? And the Arch-Demon spawn ? I did two playthrough just so I could have both pact and no pact ending... It didn't change a lot, since I usually don't buy DLC (though my mother bought me Legacy for my birthday...)

Should you get a DA3 out, I'll probably illegally download it before I commit 50 € of my really light student purse again. But know that, Dragon Age will be one of my favourite universes forever ! My children will have to play this game if they want to herit a single cent of my future fortune. I can't marry a guy who hasn't played the game (well, my boyfriend did, thank the Maker !)

[Cantina]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Dear BioWare,

I'm begging on my knees. Please, do not kill off Hawke.

Thank you,
A Fan

I think IF they killed Hawke, I'd be really pissed off.


I know Bioware is doing their best and cannot please everyone; but sometimes, I tend to think they gone off the deep end. Instead of trying to please everyone there pissing more and more people off.

It does not sit well with me as a fan knowing my Hawke's story will never be completed in the game. They gave us a character and then left us hanging at the end. Now there talking about bringing in a new protaginist for the 3rd installment.

I'm really getting sick of gaming companies that pull that kind of crap and then they wonder why there losing their fan base.

[ximena]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

One thing I would like to add is how I think a lot of developers these days are scared to go away from the mainstream and then fall back on easy options to appease casual gamers... when, really, games like Origins don't come out often, and I know a lot of my casual gamer friends really loved it BECAUSE it was really different and cool.

I have one friend who is a huge COD fan and can be described as the type who would buy Bayonetta for the sole reason of there having a hot girl on the front.

I had like... an hour-long discussion about Origins with him. I remember him telling me how he loved the old-school tactics and all the characters and how awesome the storyline was. I said I was surprised because he seems like the type of wave off that kinda thing, and he got kinda mad, because he said I shouldn't wave off people like him from liking a game like Origins. He said it felt refreshing to play a nice, long game with a cool storyline and lots of choices and he would like more games like that. I remember his favourite character was Sten and he hated Alistair, ha ha! Although he did mention he loved how hot Morrigan and Leliana were, it didn't negate the fact he loved Origins for what it was. I don't think game developers should shy away from making a different game. If you put enough love and time into it with skillful hands, i'd say most people will like it no matter how it looks. Don't shy away from it by making mainstream, SUPER XCORE SWORD NINJA SKILLZ, just let it be what it wants to be That was what let DAII down, it wasn't itself. I know that sounds really wtf, but I don't know how else to explain it.

Not sure if he played II, though. Anyway, you get the jist.

ooh! I also remember asking him about silent protagonists, he said it was fine. Not sure if everyone feels this way, but he didn't mind at all

This. A thousand times.

[Plaguemaster]

Master Shiori wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"Mike Laidlaw noted in an interview with Gamespot that a return to the RPG style of Dragon Age: Origins is unlikely, proclaiming "The big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this."

Dragonage III is going to be a failure for just this reason.

So, DA:O was perfect in your mind and any change to that formula is a failure? Come on!

You can make DA3 a better game without making it DA:O 2.0. The fact Bioware is willing to gather feedback from us on what we did and didn't like in DA2 shows they are trying to improve. 

Telling them: "get back to DA:O or you fail" won't accomplish anything.

Yet it is what fandom wants. Things turned out that arcade gameplay does not sit well with majority of customers and they don't want to buy another jRPG. So what is more important - innovation of profit?

[GuiltySource]

If you intend to make the game over say 10 years, don't have the same NPC's in the same place saying the same dialogue in year 7.

[royen1]

Dear Bioware,
please make DA3 almost exactly like DA:O and nothing like DA2. That is all.

Sincerely,
Someone who was very surprised when DA2 was nothing like DA:O

[StingingVelvet]

Alain Baxter wrote...

Sorry to hear about this. To be clear, is this specific to not wanting to purchase the Day 1 DLC or the product offering it?

Day 1 DLC is just kind of insulting.  Like, thanks for buying this $60 product... here is something else to buy to really have the whole thing.  No matter how true it is that that thing is not really needed to get the "whole game" it still FEELS that way to the consumer.

On top of that with EA shutting down the servers for The Saboteur and closing off access to that DLC it makes DLC feel really temporary and able to be lost, which makes me not even want to get it at all.

I honestly think you guys are slowly digging a grave with these online aspects and such, whether it be DLC or account requirements or DRM on the PC.  Consumers dislike hassles and these things are slowly becomming more and more of exactly that.  Eventually it will impact sales, if it hasn't already.

[Master Shiori]

Plaguemaster wrote...


Yet it is what fandom wants. Things turned out that arcade gameplay does not sit well with majority of customers and they don't want to buy another jRPG. So what is more important - innovation of profit?

And you seriously can't imagine them improving something without falling back to DA:O? Really?

People complained about lack of rpg elements (?!) in ME2. Did Bioware make ME3 completely resemble ME1? No, they didn't, yet the game was a huge improvement over it's predecessor (ending excluded).

If the only way you can see DA3 becoming a better game by copying DA:O down to every last feature, then you're in for a shock.  

Or, you know, you could explain what exactly didn't work for you in DA2, and why. Call it a hunch, but that may be more productive then crying "give me back DA:O!!".

[Saniala]

I didn't read this thread past the first two pages but I just wanted to say that I absolutely love Dragon Age 2. Sure it had it's faults, the recycled maps and enemy waves dropping from ceiling being the main ones, but regardless I liked DA2 more than Origins.

I loved hearing the voice acting and the main characters all had good voice actors. The dialogue wheel with icons to clarify the tone was a great idea. It made sure that I wouldn't be choosing something that I didn't want to say. Main character personality changing based on dialogue choices was also a very good idea.

As for the story, I found the Qunari and the mages conflict with templars very interesting. Story taking place during several years would have been good as well but it could have used something to make it feel like the years had passed between the segments, but that's again related to map recycling.

I'm not much of a writer so this message probably isn't very coherent. I'm just sad that this is the end of DA2. Thank you for making the game, I will continue enjoying it.

[Blastback]

Please, bring back KotOR style skills.

[Dr Nilsson]

Mark Darrah wrote...

We will try to bring some closure to Hawke's story but likely not in a playable form. Originally we had planned to do an expansion pack but had to stop to focus on what we are working on now.

nooooooooooooooo.com/

Please don't make it a book. As a Swede it takes to long for me to read a book in english. Make it a animated movie, comic book or include it in DA3.

[Xewaka]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...
I guess we're not going to win with the silent protagonist, but can we still see the return of the text wall? Save the text wheel for Mass Effect, please...
As I said many times, I hate "Hello" being." Hello there! I want set you on fire!"

Deeper dig: is the issue that you didn't know what you'd say, or that you did or said something unexpected?
I'll admit that I'm biased; I don't like reading a choice and then hearing the exact same thing read aloud to me. However, I can absolutely agree with concerns about being blindsided as per your example above.

I won't anser for jackofalltrades here, but I'll give my own answer. Both: The first usually leads to the second. The paraphrases excel at being misleading and incomplete, hiding basic needed information from the player, disallowing the player to make an informed choice on something as basic as "what comes off the mouth of my character". Paraphrases are effectively robbing the player of any sort of agency over the character, due to both not knowing what the character will say and making the character do something the player didn't expect it to do (usually completely breaking said character).
When you have to reload 3n times (where n is the number of dialogue choice hubs) at every conversation to get the character to say what you'd like him to say, we have a glaringly obvious problem.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Filament wrote...
But you wouldn't have to read it, depending on its implementation, per the various suggestions that have been offered here. It could be placed in a field separate from the paraphrases upon highlighting, or in the subtitles field, or replace the paraphrases themselves upon highlighting, or have a toggled implementation. A lot of fans really want one of those options and they wouldn't detract from the experience you want. So where's the problem?

There's some very good suggestions in this thread, absolutely.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
The things I listed out are decisions that we've reached so far, and had already communicated previously, I simply wanted to reiterate them so that we could focus on things that are still very open to feedback (which is to say, virtually everything). I'm very happy to see some of the responses around the dialog wheel, for instance, as there may very well be things we can do, and I don't know if we could have gotten to some of the suggestions without first placing the discussion around there being a voiced protagonist.

The question is, how will you go around about implementing this, if at all? I know it's too early to have anything set on stone, but can we at least get the aknowledgement that paraphrases generates a new host of issues with clarity and agency that will be adequately looked upon? I know it's been stated that you'll attempt to improve paraphrasing clarity; however, due to the hard size limit on paraphrases, they simply cannot be made clear at all: there is simply not enough space for the paraphrase to carry all necessary information to the player. Could you tell us what alternatives, if any, you feel more confident can be easily implemented in addition to (even if I'd prefer instead of) paraphrases? Working back clarity into the dialogue system would restore much needed player agency over the character.
For the record, I believe that having the associated subtitle drop down in the subtitle space after a few seconds of highlighting an option is the way to go, since it allows people with subvocalization issues to avoid the subtitle drop (by not pointing at choice until choice is made) and it would allow people who want a minimum amount of control over the character to ensure that said character actually acts in the manner the player wishes.

Mark Darrah wrote...

andar91 
-I want to
have more options out of combat with things like abilities and stealth and things like that. I loved that kind of stuff in the classic games (BGII and all that); nothing was cooler to me than being able to cast Arcane Eye with my mage and use it to scout, or cast invisibility, or identify, and all that stuff (I always play mages). Granted, Dragon Age has a different tone than a D&D game, but it'd be nice to have things to do besides just talking out of combat (like scouting or avoiding combat).

So things like searching, stealth, traps, puzzles?

Anything that involves a form of interaction with the world that is not a) combat or talking is fine. DA 2 had this problem where the game sinked into a "fight. talk. fight. talk" dynamic and never made more than a token effort to break said dymanic. It made for a very boring gameplay after a while, due to the fatigue building upon the player and no real pace-breaker to remove the feeling of continuous repetition. The Ashes Gauntlet in DA:O, for instance, was an excellent example of a breather level, consisting mostly of puzzles to challenge the player in a different way. The Fade Labyrinth in the Mage Tower also offered a very different challenge. Whereas, in DA 2, such pace-breaking never actually happened, never relieving the fatigue built upon the player. DA:O was already short on non-combat gameplay content, and DA 2 worsened the issue.
If I may be so bold, I suggest you take a look at games like Secret of Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle for inspiration, and at PnP RPG systems other than D&D. There's a lot of goodies to find outside the "straight Tolkien fantasy setting RPG" box, and I feel you could really use that kind of lateral thinking.

Modifié par Xewaka, 20 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[rolson00]

Blastback wrote...

Please, bring back KotOR style skills.

i dont think lucas would like it if templars started using the force