2816 réponses à ce sujet

[Divvitar]

A couple of more thoughts on DA3:
1) I would like to see a bigger, more explorable world, like DA:O. I don't need it to be like "Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim." I think they went a bit overboard. That game held my interest up until the point where a) there a way too many bugs, quests started repeating, c) there is no ending and d) there is precious little NPC interaction and interplay. You wander around aimlessly doing one mindless quest after another, especially after the main quest is completed. This was one of the issues with DA2. A lot of the side quests were silly hunt and fetch missions.
2) Keep the mature content and dialogue style from DA2. Games should have an M rating for a reason, not because they have a few decapitations and some blood. There isn't a single reason for "Skyrim" to be rated M. None. Zero, zilch, nada! You don't have to go as far as "The Witcher;" where F-bombs are dropped constantly and the NPC's comment about what your mom did with the private parts of a Dwarf. However, occasional profanity and partial nudity should be expected in a game that is, ostensibly, for mature players.

[Lucy Glitter]

 

David Gaider wrote...

Korusus wrote...
Agree. Just say NO to auto-dialogue. DA2 had a little bit of auto-dialogue that was determined by what "tone" you picked most often, but ME3 took that concept to an absurd level. Keep that nonsense in Mass Effect where it belongs, auto-dialogue has no place in Dragon Age.

I haven't finished playing ME3 to completion, but while I wouldn't call it "nonsense" I think I can safely say that future DA content won't go that route. Shepherd is a bit more of a set character than we like to do in DA, and I'm not sure that style is really compatible. I'm okay with dialogue having more of a "scene" asscoiated with it (ie. those sections where there's some back-and-forth conversation, and you're not picking every response), but personally I'd prefer if it came as a result of a direction the player already provided.

Nnn... nn..

[DarkHod]

Firstly, do away with the idea of setting the whole game in one (small) town. We play these games so we can loose ourselves in the world, not so we can wander identical looking streets that don't change despite the game supposedly spanning ten years. The more diverse locations we can travel to, filled with varied creatures and characters, the better.

A central villain and a clear goal, DAII had neither of these and the game suffered for it.

A big no to auto-dialogue - ME3 had whole scenes where I was reduced to the role of spectator. People buy Bioware games so we can actively engage with the story almost all the time. We want to create our own protagonist, not play as someone elses.

An ending which is actively affected by the choices I had made throughout the game, and doesn't push me into a scenario or to choose from ending A, B or C. For example, the fact regardless of what I did in DAII - the head mage still went evil and I still fought the head Templar.

Don't go the ME3 route were side quests are meerly a case of eavesdropping on peoples conversations and then fetching an object. Maintain the standard where I actively engage with these NPCs. Even if their quest isn't integral to the main story, being able to engage with them and meeting a character adds to the sense of being in this large world.

An ending with payoffs both for my choices and the relationships I built throughout the game. I'm sure you're looking at the ME3 ending backlash. We don't want ambiguous endings or philosophical statements, we want to know how our choices affected the world and what happened to our friends in the end.

[Dead Parrot]

Not sure if this got lost in the shuffle, so I wanted to make a post. Several people have mentioned that they do not want to see day one DLC. I'm inclined to agree with them. I understand that you guys have a few months to kill between certification and launch day. I also understand that day one DLC is partially developed alongside the main game so that it may be better integrated once completed. But it really doesn't matter how it is actually developed, it always feels like a ripoff. It feels like part of the game was ripped out at the last minute and then sold back for a premium. Right now, if you google "day one DLC", the first three (at least) pages of results are dedicated wholly to the Mass Effect 3 "From Ashes" outrage. I'm not a marketing guy but it occurs to me that it might be worth rethinking a business practice when so many people complain so vocally.

I've also felt that all of the day one DLC (except Stone Prisoner which actually was ripped out of the main game due to time constraints and then finished after the game was delayed and given to owners of new copies for free) is terribly underwhelming. Zaeed (while a badass) amounted to one short mission and a few extra lines of dialogue here and there. Sebastian is (in my opinion) a bland and annoying character whose story fits in poorly with the overall narrative and who adds very little value to the game--except for the hilariously awful "Maker! NOOOOOOOOO!" line in the finale. That, at least, is worth a few dollars. Warden's Keep is a nice little side story but the quality drops off sharply after you close the tear in the Veil. Why can't I rebuild the keep? Why can't I enter the castle on return trips? Why are Levi and his extended family camping on my battlements? Why isn't there any content post-Veil tear?

I would prefer it if the time between certification and launch day was instead used to work towards a proper expansion pack--or at the very least a lengthy and quality DLC like Legacy or Lair of the Shadow Broker. I don't know the industry so I can only speculate. But all of that development time went somewhere. If Sebastian were never made, would the cancelled expansion pack have had a better chance? If Warden's Keep were never made, would Awakening have been a bit more fleshed out? 

That's my opinion.

PS: Bring back Oghren

Modifié par Dead Parrot, 20 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

BubbleDncr wrote...

All I do is give him better equipment to use and give him orders in battle.

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to control him when Hawke was unconscious.

[Arppis]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

All I do is give him better equipment to use and give him orders in battle.

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to control him when Hawke was unconscious.

Time to load for me if that happens...

[aries1001]

To be clear:

This means no more choose your race as in traditional D&D? From now on, in a DA game, it'll be a defined race from the start like in DA2 e.g. an elf if the game demands it, or human if the story in the game demands it...

In that case, please make it so that we still have choice between playing a male and a female as well featuring the female character in the markeing and on the box. I'm saying this because I know a lot of women players won't buy a game if the game is marketed only through showing off the male lead character.
Og, and btw, what happened to Fex race? David Gaider, I think it was him?, said something about this race being in DA2?

Is David Gaider's new book still coming out, helping to explain things a bit?

[Kavatica]

Arppis wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

All I do is give him better equipment to use and give him orders in battle.

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to control him when Hawke was unconscious.

Time to load for me if that happens...

Seriously? Sometimes I kill myself on purpose just to hear the battle cries. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Arppis wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

All I do is give him better equipment to use and give him orders in battle.

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to control him when Hawke was unconscious.

Time to load for me if that happens...

Okay, so you're wilfully imposing extra restrictions on yourself.

Good for you.  If you don't think you should be allowed to change Fenris's clothing, then don't do it.

But that's no reason not to have the option available for other players.  Again, I point the Diversified Follower Armour mod for DA2, which allows players to keep the iconic looks if they want to do that, or to equip other armours if they want to do that.

It's the best of both worlds, and if an enterprising modder (without a toolset) can do that then BioWare can do it, too.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 20 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[Arppis]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

All I do is give him better equipment to use and give him orders in battle.

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to control him when Hawke was unconscious.

Time to load for me if that happens...

Okay, so you're wilfully imposing extra restrictions on yourself.

Good for you.  If you don't think you should be allowed to change Fenris's clothing, then don't do it.

But that's no reason not to have the option available for other players.  Again, I point the Diversified Follower Armour mod for DA2, which allows players to keep the iconic looks if they want to do that, or to equip other armours if they want to do that.

It's the best of both worlds, and if an enterprising modder (without a toolset) can do that then BioWare can do it, too.

I agree there should be options. I just like them to have the choice of clothing. But I will not stop playing the game if I have to dress them up for battle.

Don't worry about it. I'm just telling how I play the game.

And modding would be a good thing, if I didn't play on console.

Modifié par Arppis, 20 mars 2012 - 07:28 .

[LinksOcarina]

Sad part is Sylvus, they said they want to do that, but people here complained it was not enough.

hubris is dangerous, no?

[DIONAPERSSON]

I really liked the first and second, but the first was the most epic and gutwrenching gaming experience I have ever known. The way that either the end was an epic and heroic death or the "happy ending" with quite a lot of unhappy moments. I Really felt connected with my warden when I didn't hear her voice... Its not like she was me, but she was my character, not like the story of Hawke.

I really liked the way that the epilogue was in the game, even though i LOVED the mass effect 3 ending I felt even more for the story in dao. I would say that is quite the feat after 3 amazing games compared 1, but the ending got me curious on different endings and possible alternatives.

The way the first game let you choose in what order you wanted to do the main storyline quests, helped me elude myself it was less linear and I felt like the story was 1 and not multiple different stories that only slightly depends on each other.

My favorite characters in da2 was the more humorous characters and less the depressed and broody, sometimes I like that, but compared to anders in dao awakening or da2 I prefer the former.

I also prefer a more gritty style in the way everything looks, mass effect or the first game gives more of that gritty feeling i would prefer for a third game.

I really like to be able to talk to people almost everywhere, it felt less linear that way.

I really liked da2 but compared to what i expected from playing dao I would have wished for more of what i wrote, some things i liked about the second was the responsive gameplay and a house.

ps. sry for my english, its my second language... and I LOVED the origins, please bring them back!
I want to be an elf again.

Modifié par DIONAPERSSON, 20 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[septembervirgin]

0. Mature content is best defined as content relating to maturity and wisdom.
1. No clear villains. Complex social interactions should lead to opposition.
2. More characters to choose from & things for out-of-party characters to do.
3. Hire more smart writers. Make these smart writers write for a living. Temporary help from celebrities might be a good option.
4. Also keep it complex and intelligent

Sex is fine but please keep in mind that erotica is pretty much adolescent stuff.  If you want the game to be properly mature, keep the stuff like insisting that grey wardens die from the blight.  Remember that the Dark Rite worked for Morrigan but might not work for a woman unprepared by Flemeth.  As belatedly noted by Gaider in an interview, female Grey Wardens should be wary of being captured by darkspawn in their Calling.  If Sigrun was sent into the Deep Roads alone, we can expect she might be a broodmother now.

Of course it might be hoped that Grey Wardens are immune to becoming broodmothers due to the nature of the Joining.  After surviving arch-demon infected darkspawn blood, one might assume that regular treatments of darkspawn taint would hardly effect them.

I do not think we need a clear villain. I prefer Orzammar to the Circle Mage Tower. I prefer quality characters to specific villains. I also think we need more characters to choose from as companions and something for out-of-party companions to do including crafting, scouting, espionage, guarding trade routes and assisting city guards, actively betraying our stated goals, etc.

I think the focus on Dragon Age should be for a complex approach to the social movements that make adventuring required of able beings. Also, the very nature of Thedas and the rest of the DA world should lead to conflict, corruption, conspiracy, and viciousness.

The conversations need to be potentially longer (at player discretion). The endings need to be more numerous with variables being saved on our choices for future use. The player characters who join with us shouldn't be so important that you can't use our decisions as regards them. The actual movers and shakers who "escape to fight another day" should be important to the continuing plot -- as should our own character whenever possible.

Hire more writers and plot designers. These guys should have access to top of the shelf writing tools for dialogue and plot changes. Make the writers and plot planners work for a living. Make the conversation programs store conversation trees and have a handy search engine for dialogue and variables. DO NOT FORGET changes we make for an NPC and what happens to these NPC. Don't forget their skills and talents and extra character classes.

Maybe you could hire Caitlyn Kiernan, Robert McCammon, Clive Barker, Jack Ketchum, Joe Hill, Tanith Lee, and other luminaries for a brief celebrity stint? One by one, an additional hand in dialogue or even plot might be helpful and even encourage the masses.

Above all, Dragon Age is the smart kid in the class. Don't try to make him seem stupid. He's not going to get bullied by Need for Speed. While your peers in clever game design are sometimes known for their disarray, like Temple of Elemental Evil and Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, don't think it's necessary to dress down for us. Mod makers have better things to do than correct poorly checked data.

Rival game design companies might hire shills, hire seemingly innocuous people to create user accounts and express opinions that would work contrary to your interests as an entertainment group. Feel free to ignore suggestions to be stupid, to emulate in ways you cannot presently, to keep yourselves limited in assumption of a brutally apathetic and ignorant audience. Ignore bad advice, in other words, especially if it seems to come from a source that runs contrary to your own experience with actual fans who seem to admire the horror, beauty, and divergent outlook presented by your games.

Modifié par septembervirgin, 20 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Rorschachinstein]

More enemy races.

I everybody has brought the bandits to near extinction.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

After thinking some more on this, Bioware needs to figure out if they want to make CRPG's or Action games ala Devil May Cry with cinematics. DA2 is neither a tactical game nor an easily picked up action game. It can be made to be enjoyable, but only after tweaking the hell out of it, and that's why it tanked. In their quest to make DA2 accessible and appeal to the console crowd they are so desperately seeking these days, BioWare failed miserably.

Origins followed their successful past formula of tactical pause and plan party based gameplay, Chalk full of complete party customization and the like. DA2 abandoned this outright for guys somersault warping arcross the screen to shower enemies in gibs as new ones fall out of the sky to replace them.

This carries over into the rest of the game's aspects as well, no tactical overhead camera because the ceilings are too pretty to miss, paraphrased voice overs that have the player guessing at practically everything THEIR character is going to say. They have a hard on for voice overs, I get it, at the least do it the way Deus Ex did it and show the entire line of dialog, add more choices and rp opertunity and move away from the limited Mass Effect wheel of nice response, neutral response, snarky response .

Involve player urgency, make their choices matter and entwine into variables that can actually affect the out come, ie: don't do it like ME3.

[Arppis]

septembervirgin wrote...

1. No clear villains. Complex social interactions should lead to opposition.
2. More characters to choose from & things for out-of-party characters to do.
3. Hire more smart writers. Make these smart writers write for a living. Temporary help from celebrities might be a good option.
4. Also keep it complex and intelligent

Hm, but people might complain if they don't understand the plot.

No but you are right and I agree.

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

After thinking some more on
this, Bioware needs to figure out if they want to make CRPG's or Action
games ala Devil May Cry with cinematics. DA2 is neither a tactical game
nor an easily picked up action game. It can be made to be enjoyable, but
only after tweaking the hell out of it, and that's why it tanked. In
their quest to make DA2 accessible and appeal to the console crowd they
are so desperately seeking these days, BioWare failed miserably.

Origins
followed their successful past formula of tactical pause and plan party
based gameplay, Chalk full of complete party customization and the
like. DA2 abandoned this outright for guys somersault warping arcross
the screen to shower enemies in gibs as new ones fall out of the sky to
replace them.

This carries over into the rest of the game's
aspects as well, no tactical overhead camera because the ceilings are
too pretty to miss, paraphrased voice overs that have the player
guessing at practically everything THEIR character is going to say. They
have a hard on for voice overs, I get it, at the least do it the way
Deus Ex did it and show the entire line of dialog, add more choices and
rp opertunity and move away from the limited Mass Effect wheel of nice
response, neutral response, snarky response .

Involve player
urgency, make their choices matter and entwine into variables that can
actually affect the out come, ie: don't do it like ME3.

I
didn't really care for Origin's combat system. They don't have to make
it devil may cry. They could look example from Dark Souls, it has pretty
realistic medieval combat and then add tactical gameplay on top of it.

It can be best of the both worlds, if done correctly.

Modifié par Arppis, 20 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Rorschachinstein]

septembervirgin wrote...

1. No clear villains. Complex social interactions should lead to opposition.


I do not think we need a clear villain. I prefer Orzammar to the Circle Mage Tower. I prefer quality characters to specific villains. I also think we need more characters to choose from as companions and something for out-of-party companions to do including crafting, scouting, espionage, guarding trade routes and assisting city guards, actively betraying our stated goals, etc.

.

The Archdemon was a badass. And saying there should be no villain is just toning down the satisfaction in killing them. Yes more Loghain esque enemies would be good, but having a heartless monster as a villain is good thing.

[Snorkelfarsan]

After playing DA:O (a couple of times) I was very hungry to explore more of the world, the Dragon Age lore is very deep and there are so many stories to be told in so many places throughout the Dragon Age universe. In that sense, DA2 was a bit of a disappointment, being confined to Kirkwall took a way a lot of the feeling of you being part of a much greater story. that being said, you did introduce a lot of nice changes in DA2, mainly on the visual and gameplay side of things, nevertheless I really enjoyed the old school RPG top-down playing style from DA:O and older Bioware RPGs. Furthermore, there must also no clear goal and motivation from the beginning. In DA2 we are thrown into the life of the Hero without having any reasons to care much about him/her or the family. There was no incentive or narrative for us to do so. Also, the player is thrust in to this story without a clear motivation or understanding of what the Hero wants to achieve. We are told we must do all these things to work our way up in Kirkwall but any good incentives or reasons.

In the next Dragon Age installation, I would like to experience much more of the DA Universe, different parts. A clear goal from the very beginning. whether you guys choose to go with a Mass Effect style voiced dialog option or do the DA;O version doesn't really matter that much to me. As long as we can feel emotionally attached from our character from the beginning. And I really hope there will be more elements of exploration and a feeling of being part of grandiose story where you have an important role to play. It doesn't necessarily have to be saving the world from a one true evil; in fact, I would like to see a more complex, perhaps more realistic story unfold where you think you know who your enemy is, but the further the story progresses the less black and white it is and ultimately, it is very hard to decide who to kill or how to "end the game". I understand this kind of story is less likely to work because it's much harder to pull of than a classic epic fantasy story about ridding the world of evil, but a true politically and morally intricate and complex story would be such an amazing experience. You guys at Bioware have already started doing that in DA:O and Mass Effect, but you can do it even better. And if anyone can pull it off, it's Bioware.

Moreover, I hope you guys can do something really innovative with the Good/Bad - Paragon/Renegade choices. I would like to see a less black and white approach to morality where there are just good or evil choices, and more grey areas, so to speak. Again, I know this can be very hard to employ in a game, even in any story. But a mature and complex story/narrative would be something really, really awesome. I think it would be breaking new ground for the gaming medium.

Modifié par Snorkelfarsan, 20 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[Mark Darrah]

This thread is great! I really like most of the feedback that I am seeing (though I'm definately not able to read everything anymore)
To set expectations:
We are gathering feedback right now.
We haven't announced anything so don't expect a lot of concrete answers from us for a while.
As I said earlier, I would rather have something to show you as opposed to just a bunch of yalking points.

Come see us at PAX East as well if you want to continue the discussion.

[Statulos]

Korusus wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Watching this video really makes me realize just how truly excellent DA2 is/was, I for one will sorely miss what promised to be a truly epic game and what could of been.
This litereally brought tears to my eyes knowing that Hawke n DA2 are over while watching and listening to this.



I truly apologize if this was the wrong place to put this but with the announcement of DA2 being no more I thought it was fitting.

What's funny is that almost none of the scenes in that video are actually in the game.

The bad part about that video is that it shows nothing from actual gameplay; just cinematics. And a good chunk of those cinematics are promotional only.

Let us not forget that videogames, by definition are interactive. Film is a different genre that sometimes overlaps, but does not follow the same logic and expectations from a videogame.

Modifié par Statulos, 20 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[LPPrince]

Mark Darrah wrote...

(though I'm definately not able to read everything anymore)

This statement is completely understandable and I hope no one takes it negatively.

BUT- Lets get more devs in on this discussion. The more devs viewing it, the higher chance that EVERYTHING is taken into account.

[Rorschachinstein]

Mark Darrah wrote...

This thread is great! I really like most of the feedback that I am seeing (though I'm definately not able to read everything anymore)
To set expectations:
We are gathering feedback right now.
We haven't announced anything so don't expect a lot of concrete answers from us for a while.
As I said earlier, I would rather have something to show you as opposed to just a bunch of yalking points.

Come see us at PAX East as well if you want to continue the discussion.

Who's going to be on the panel other than yourself?

[coldwetn0se]

Would still really like a DA2 expansion. Yes, I understand that this has been discarded, but people are merely pointing out what they want. Some of it is realistic, and some of it is wishfull thinking. Mine falls into the latter, but there it is!

[Ranemann58]

Dragon Age was the best as for the character and story line. I thought that Dragon Age II would follow or lead into some of the character's with links and quest's, but nooooo other than the apperence of some of Dragon Age character's we were let down... I have played both DA and DAII and hope for DAIII as I would spend my $$$$ for the great return of all the character's for DA, DAII and new character for DAIII, but somehow link back to the begining with a finish of what was begin with DA,,
Lawrence