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Mark Darrah on the conclusion of Dragon Age II


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#2151
AbsoluteApril

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same male/female voice for all races would be fine with me. With Hawke (and shepard) we already have the same voice no matter how many 'different' characters we make, so how that different? (besides accent but I think that would depend on where the new PC is based from)

Mark Darrah wrote...
I do like combat relevant shouts and orders in combat.
Have you tried ME3's Kinect support in combat?


I use the ME3 kinect battle commands. I don't honestly see how that would work in DA beyond saying the dialogue line (or paraphrase). Not sure how or if it would work for actual battle commands since DA is more tactical 'pause and set up actions' as opposed to ME's 'blast through everyone as quick as possible'. 
 
I do like the 'quick save' voice command.

**
I'd like to hear people's ideas on how to handle 'tone' without a color coded dialogue wheel... someone mentioned earlier setting a tone to use based on who the PC talks to. That was a decent idea. Maybe we could select a tone before a scene? Or perhaps - since I play on the console - holding down the right bumper to have the tone be 'diplo/nice' and the left bumper for 'aggressive/snarky' response and then don't hold down either for a netural tone?

brainstorming ideas here, anyone else?

(and another vote for NO MP/COOP in DA please)

#2152
Arppis

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LaidGenie wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

Alessa-00 wrote...

Cyr8 wrote...

I have a question: after you release your current Dragon Aae project ® that you aren't announcing, is there a possibility that you would go back and work on that expansion pack that you mentioned? I know I would like that.


Good question ... yes, please ....


I third this.


fourth it.



Make mine the fifth


Sixth... Just because I know my friend loves reading everything he can in these games. Flavor text is never wasted text. Someone will read it and it makes them happy.

#2153
Androme

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Hello.

People play singleplayer RPGs mainly for the story, fact.
Therefore, my suggestions:
- Don't leave peoples favourite characters in the mud, try to assimilate them to the plans you have for future events in the DA universe.
- Atmosphere is important, DA:O had a much better atmosphere and feeling to it than DA2 had, try to look back a bit and see what you can do (graphically, environmentally?) to make future games ''feel'' more like the dark RPG that DA:O was.
- I'm gonna be critical now, but seriously, bring back the maturity level to how it was in DA:O. And no, excessive amounts of blood like in DA2 is not maturity.

Thanks for reading, and thank you for two awesome games so far, despite the major flaws of DA2. I'm looking forward to your next game.

Modifié par Androme, 20 mars 2012 - 09:03 .


#2154
Rorschachinstein

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I have hope that I think might not be a stretch. It was mentioned before about adding a trophy room in your base/home/camp. I really adored all the different portraits fireplaces in DAII that sparked some monologue from Hawke. The only problem is that was all we got. How about doing particularly difficult dungeons and getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.

#2155
aidennyle

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One more thing & I'll shut up. I really hated the way the characters from DA Origins looked! Was that necessary? Except Leliana. I killed her in Origins. I kicked her out of my camp. Yet there she was & it was obvious great care was taken to make her look better! What was the point of importing my Origins save? If you love Leliana, sorry...I can't stand her. I'm surprised my non-anorexic, not scottish warden didn't show up & stab her in the heart. I felt like the import save was redundant....DA 2 just couldn't handle it.

#2156
CoS Sarah Jinstar

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Morroian wrote...

mariosgh wrote...

Please make more long, complex quests. Quests, where there is some mystery, investigation etc. Amount and variety of quests was one of the reasons why BG2 was such a fun.

DA2 had detective style quests but there still could be more variety. As for length I for one would like to keep the quests at a similar length to DA2. The long dungeon crawls in DAO became too much of a grind and its worth noting games like Skyrim don't have long quests either.


I'd take the deep roads from DA1 over the entire two tiny room expedition in DA2 any day, You only spend the whole entire first act preping for it, getting the equipment and gold, and it's two tiny rooms and over in 2.4 minutes, some payout for the whole entire first act of the game. Exploration is a huge part of RPG's why for the love of god do people want that limited to claustrophobic tiny areas? Are people that lazy that everything has to be super simple? I just don't get it.

#2157
Kavatica

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Rorschachinstein wrote...

getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.


Shale disapproves -25

But seriously, I think there would need to be a pretty valid explanation for why a character would have or need a Golem butler.

#2158
Arppis

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Rorschachinstein wrote...


I have hope that I think might not be a stretch. It was mentioned before about adding a trophy room in your base/home/camp. I really adored all the different portraits fireplaces in DAII that sparked some monologue from Hawke. The only problem is that was all we got. How about doing particularly difficult dungeons and getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.


I agree, this is a really good idea! ^_^

Plus having those letters was a stroke of brilliance. I'd say why not have both? Mansion (or base, whatever it is) and campsite? 

#2159
Mark Darrah

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Rorschachinstein wrote...

Mark Darrah wrote...

This thread is great! I really like most of the feedback that I am seeing (though I'm definately not able to read everything anymore)
To set expectations:
We are gathering feedback right now.
We haven't announced anything so don't expect a lot of concrete answers from us for a while.
As I said earlier, I would rather have something to show you as opposed to just a bunch of yalking points.

Come see us at PAX East as well if you want to continue the discussion.


Who's going to be on the panel other than yourself?


Haven't actually locked that down yet. I'll let you know.

#2160
Rorschachinstein

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Kavatica wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.


Shale disapproves -25

But seriously, I think there would need to be a pretty valid explanation for why a character would have or need a Golem butler.


Go into the deep roads

Come out with loot.(Golems, Totems) and not just money.

Profit

#2161
Mark Darrah

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Melca36 wrote...

Make drops **count**. I got tired of getting 3X damage rings or 4X fire rings.

Or create a crazy and eccentric NPC character where we can exchange these trash items for something more valuable


So either:
* Make loot be consistently good
OR
* Let me juice bad loot to GET something good?

#2162
Arppis

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Sad part is Sylvus, they said they want to do that, but people here complained it was not enough.

Offering both options can never not be enough.  Unless there's some third option that's not available, letting us do the things we want to do has to be enough.

I've seen complaints about being able to change companion appearances (for those who prefer those appearances be fixed), but I simply cannot understand why being able to do something is bad if you're not required to do it.


You spoke of mods before, gave me an idea: How about little compromise in between? I think this would be easily fixed by having "default appearance toggle for companions" in the options. Or something like this?

:happy:

#2163
Kavatica

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Rorschachinstein wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.


Shale disapproves -25

But seriously, I think there would need to be a pretty valid explanation for why a character would have or need a Golem butler.


Go into the deep roads

Come out with loot.(Golems, Totems) and not just money.

Profit


LOL. Maybe if you are playing an evil character. But considering where Golems come from... I think that would be a bit creepy.

#2164
Sylvius the Mad

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
but I simply cannot understand why being able to do something is bad if you're not required to do it.

You're not required to give the companions any directions in combat. =]

Or give them equipment, or select talents for them.  This is true.

I'm not sure why you're saying this.

#2165
PinkShoes

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

mariosgh wrote...

Please make more long, complex quests. Quests, where there is some mystery, investigation etc. Amount and variety of quests was one of the reasons why BG2 was such a fun.

DA2 had detective style quests but there still could be more variety. As for length I for one would like to keep the quests at a similar length to DA2. The long dungeon crawls in DAO became too much of a grind and its worth noting games like Skyrim don't have long quests either.



I'd take the deep roads from DA1
over the entire two tiny room expedition in DA2 any day, You only spend the whole entire first act preping for it, getting the equipment and gold, and it's two tiny rooms and over in 2.4 minutes, some payout for the whole entire first act of the game. Exploration is a huge part of RPG's why for the love of god do people want that limited to claustrophobic tiny areas? Are people that lazy that everything has to be super simple? I just don't get it.


Skyrim isnt a story based game and a lot of skyrim looked the same to. But lets remember, we want a DA game nothing else.

Also, the deep roads on DAO are a lot better. They were darker and looked like darkspawn lived there. DA2 seriously i get it was a long forgotten place but why was it SO clean and bright?

#2166
Kavatica

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Mark Darrah wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Make drops **count**. I got tired of getting 3X damage rings or 4X fire rings.

Or create a crazy and eccentric NPC character where we can exchange these trash items for something more valuable


So either:
* Make loot be consistently good
OR
* Let me juice bad loot to GET something good?


Yes. Basically I think people just want there to be a point to the loot, and not just a ton of junk that we can't do anything with except sell. Some junk is okay...there just seemed to be a lot of it in DA2. 

#2167
demont0

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Mark Darrah wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Make drops **count**. I got tired of getting 3X damage rings or 4X fire rings.

Or create a crazy and eccentric NPC character where we can exchange these trash items for something more valuable


So either:
* Make loot be consistently good
OR
* Let me juice bad loot to GET something good?


The second option sounds good to me.
Junk loot at the moment is pointless, you may aswell have given us more gold drop from monsters instead of these items, so an option to exchange junk loot into good items sounds like a great way to get something decent out of these.

Perhaps an appraising system? you receieve a junk item (it could be classified as junk - boots) called worn boots or something else like that. You go to the appraiser and he takes the junk, and he can then 'convert' it into a useful item. The item receieve depends upon the junk item ( junk necklace for a necklace ect)

#2168
PinkShoes

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Mark Darrah wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Make drops **count**. I got tired of getting 3X damage rings or 4X fire rings.

Or create a crazy and eccentric NPC character where we can exchange these trash items for something more valuable


So either:
* Make loot be consistently good
OR
* Let me juice bad loot to GET something good?


Dont see why it cant be both.

#2169
Rorschachinstein

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Arppis wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...


I have hope that I think might not be a stretch. It was mentioned before about adding a trophy room in your base/home/camp. I really adored all the different portraits fireplaces in DAII that sparked some monologue from Hawke. The only problem is that was all we got. How about doing particularly difficult dungeons and getting something akin to a Golem Butler in DAIII?
Not there for any gameplay purposes, but to look pretty.


I agree, this is a really good idea! ^_^

Plus having those letters was a stroke of brilliance. I'd say why not have both? Mansion (or base, whatever it is) and campsite? 


Yes, Quests "Where are they now" was a lovely addition


Mark Darrah wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

Mark Darrah wrote...

This
thread is great! I really like most of the feedback that I am seeing
(though I'm definately not able to read everything anymore)
To set expectations:
We are gathering feedback right now.
We haven't announced anything so don't expect a lot of concrete answers from us for a while.
As I said earlier, I would rather have something to show you as opposed to just a bunch of yalking points.

Come see us at PAX East as well if you want to continue the discussion.


Who's going to be on the panel other than yourself?


Haven't actually locked that down yet. I'll let you know.


Awesome. Cause I wouldn't want to discuss story with the coding team and vice versa.

#2170
Sylvius the Mad

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I have no objection to junk loot at all. I do object, however, to it being explicitly labelled as junk.

I'd like loot to work like in NWN. Make the player decide whether something is worth saving - even quest items. Stop handing the player metagame information through the inventory UI.

And while we're on the inventory UI, any chance we can ditch the list? List inventories are terrible. They're slow to navigate, and they're not customisable. An NWN-style grid would be ideal, but failing that even BG-style inventory slots would be great. Or an NWN-style hotbar where we could put any inventory item in it.

Having to browse through a list every time we want something just is irritating. You've done it ever since KotOR and it has never been good.

#2171
Wulfram

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I'd like to see a lot less loot in the game. Just give me the 90% of stuff that it's obvious I'm never ever going to use in gold, rather than making me go to the shop to turn it into gold.

And stop feeling the need to put lootable barrels and chests absolutely everywhere. Kleptomania isn't a particularly heroic trait, and neither is stopping in the middle of what's supposed to be a desperate rescue to strip the location of everything of value.

edit: I don't play dark heroic fantasy roleplaying games to clear my backpack of torn trousers.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 mars 2012 - 09:19 .


#2172
Sylvius the Mad

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Rorschachinstein wrote...

Awesome. Cause I wouldn't want to discuss story with the coding team and vice versa.

But it would be great to talk to the coding team.

I could ask them to let us disable the depth of field effects in cutscenes.

#2173
Parahexavoctal

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For all the issues I had with DA2, it saddens me that we will never see the expansion. But as much as that saddens me, I'm also happy to hear the franchise is moving on to the Next Thing™, allowing me a fresh start without the baggage of DA2.

So, in the interest of providing feedback in the hopes of nudging the Next Thing in the 'right' direction, here goes :happy:


#1: Immersion
One of the things I've absolutely loved is immersing myself into the character and making her my own. Nothing beats this deep personal attachment I can get when all the factors align, it really gives me the warm and fuzzies. To that end, I like:
Customization is important; the more I can customize, the more I can make the character my own and get connected to her. This includes the choice of gender, race, background, class, looks (in great detail). The warden was awesome in this regard, but Hawke often came across as too much of a fixed protagonist.
To further the point about customization, I find it awesome whenever the game acknowledges them. Things like the big difference in how my dalish warden was greeted in human society compared to my human wardens. Every time the game acknowledged a choice I'd made in making the character mine, it strengthened my connection to her.
If the race absolutely can not be customized (and I really, really hope we get the choice), I'm hoping it will at least be a human or elf. I'm not sure I could identify with any of the other races at all.

Dialog is a big part of this as well. Being able to imagine my tone and inflection in my silent DA:O protegonist helped me build her identity and connect with her. Being occasionally waylaid by a bad paraphrase in DA2 was jarring.
While I often could find a line that fairly agreed with my character, being so explicitly railroaded into Diplomatic, Sarcastic or Jerky felt pretty gamey - sure I could alternate charming and diplomatic responses, but the engine would latch onto one of the three with an iron grip and suddenly the personality of my character would be out of my hands both in how lines were delivered, what dialog options I have and what my character says whenever I don't get to pick.
It's a double edged sword of course; things like having Hawke participate in party banter was great whenever she said something I could identify with, but would severely damage my immersion when I couldn't.
Party banter in general though, was absolutely awesome. Especially when acknowledging who I've made my character and the choises I've made - LI chief amongst them.


#2: Story
This one in a way goes hand in hand with Immersion from above; when the story is something I agree with, it increases my emotional connection and makes it feel awesome, it really hooks me deeply. Conversely, when the story breaks with my preferences, it is very damaging for my experience of the game.
In general, my preferences run towards the more classic adventure form; exploration, overcoming hardships, a clear antagonist, a (somewhat) happy ending.
I acknowledge that the Dragon Age setting is somewhat dark, that grey and grey morality is the norm. I know not every choice can be easy and not every every faction and character clear cut.
What I'm hoping to avoid in DA3 is things like the mage vs templar conflict in DA2; by the end of the game it hadn't mattered at all whom I sided with, both factions were equally zealous, comitted atrocious crimes and generally inspired no sympathy or desire in me to help them.
As the story plays out, I very much want to make a difference and accomplish something. DA2 where Hawke was largely impotent because the real story being told was about how everything went to hell, that is not something I ever desire to experience in a game again. On the other hand, my warden who foiled Loghain, united a nation split by civil war and faced down the archdemon (and lived to tell the tale) - that was much more to my liking.
I want causes I can believe in, sides I want to take. Challenges, setbacks, unexpected twists are all welcome, but in the end I should have the option to overcome them. I want to be the hero.. and if the game gives me the choice of being the hero who rides into the sunset with my LI in one playthrough, the Dark Knight (Batman style) hero in the next and the bittersweet hero who triumphs at the cost of her life in the last.. all the better. 
Also, a shout-out to the epilog slides; finding out what happened to everyone, from entire factions down to a barmaid, as a result of the choices I made.. that was great!


#3: Companions & Love Interests
I'm actually fairly happy with how this is done, and mention it mostly because it is very important to me. While my emotional attachment to the game is very much centered upon a deep immersion into my protagonist, I very much enjoy companions both for their own stories and for how they related to my protagonist and become a part of her story.
Love Interests are very much a selling point of your games for me. Deep down, I'm a sucker for romance, and it just gets better by the deep emotional engagement I have when the protagonist is truly my own. The more hours you can pour into LI content, the happier I am; more LIs, more LI specific scenes and quests, more banter, and other outside acknowledgment (like Varric pulling me aside to have a chat about my relationship with Merrill). All good stuff.
If anything, it would be great to deepen the system somewhat; have LIs that actively pursue romance with the protagonist, actively flirt and take first steps (Anders had some of this). As awsome as it was to woo Leliana or Merrillit would be great with some LIs that would actively woo you.
Aside from LIs, keep up with building other relationships and bonds with your companions please. Like how Varric got to be a close friend/drinking buddy.
The friendship/rivalry distinction introduced in DA2 was pretty good as well, allowing me to earn respect with those companions I didn't quite agree with. However, for those companions where I would agree with some things and disagree with others (Like Fenris when you side with mages but hate slavers), the result was that they would fail the relationship checks despite me spending a lot of time with them in my party building relations.
The idea about having homes for the companions and giving them a life outside what they did in my company was great. But I hated how every relationship (LI especially) was slaved to advance in measured stemps according to the progress in the main storyline regardless of whether it made sense or not. I missed the ability to get to know my companions at my own pace, to move faster in the beginning with those I was interested in, to be able to talk and interact with my companions at other times than when the next companion quest popped up like clockwork.


#4: Artistic Style
I have to admit, I'm a sucker for high fantasy. That said, DA:O had a good style, and I was fine with it for the most part. I really did not appreciate the drab palette DA2 seemed limited to, and the redesign of darkspawn and especially elves did not sit well with me at all. I did love all the wonderful details in the art and models of DA2, but being confined to Kirkwall for so long was dreadful.
I liked the feel of combat in DA:O a lot. It may have been slow, but artistically it felt very authentic, and the flair like finishing moves felt awesome while still fitting in with fairly realistic combat. On the other hand, while there was something empowering about backflipping across the battlefield, the style of DA2 felt like a cheesy kung-fu movie - it was just over the top to the point of being silly and killing immersion.


#5: Combat
I'm actually pretty divided here. I've always loved the tactical RPGs all the way back to Baldur's Gate, where I'd play out the fights in almost turn-based isometric, where I'd order every character around, manage all their abilities, strategize around chokepoints, crossfire, aoe, etc. Where I could scout ahead with a rogue, set traps and plan engagements ahead, approaching encounters somewhat like puzzles to be solved.
On the other hand, I'm fond of (some) action RPGs as well, and DA2's combat grew on me when I played a dagger rogue (as opposed to mage where the lack of overhead cam to aim spells and strategize really annoyed me). I always found it a shame though, that it's paced in a way where you can't expect to control more than one character, which means most of the time you're just playing by yourself and hoping the AI doesn't fail spectacularly. And when the AI does fail (like the gimmicky boss fights), combat becomes an excercise in frustration.
I've come to realize that as long as combat is about stats and abilities (as opposed to timing and reflex/twitch skill), it's probably fine for me, and won't detract from the experience. And no matter how cheap/cheesy it is, I've absolutely fallen in love with DA:O/Skyrim/Amalur style finishing moves & kill cams.


#6: Stats, Talents, Loot
I'm an old school munchkin and number cruncher, but with the familiar system of AD&D left behind and something largely opaque in it's place, it's not something I've done in DA. Truth be told, I could be perfectly happy with a system where it was obvious which items and stats are upgrades, and the choices made are more like obvious tradeoffs (Damage vs resilience vs movement speed or whether to invest in a playstyle favoring direct damage vs aoe).
DA2's skill tress excelled in letting you expand on abilities and build up to more advanced moves, while also for most play styles always having enough interesting talents to make me look forward to the next talent point. On the other hand they did not always feel deep enough; particularly mages could finish a tree by the halfway point, and starting over from scratch in a new tree felt awkward.
I've had a lot of mental dileberation on the subject of companion armor; while my first inclination is to prefer DA:O, I have to admit that not constantly keeping track of gear for 8 companions was a relief, and I didn't get into the awkward situation from DA:O where I suddenly had to play with a character I'd neglected to min/max gear for and have them woefully underpowered. I also do appreciate the detailed stylistic outfits tailored for each companion.. but having them always wear the same stuff visually and never equip more than weapons/jewelry kinda killed the sense of progression for them.
I think the ideal is somewhere inbetween DA:O and DA2; give the companions default armor with levelled stats so they are always ready to go, but allow us to equip them and keep them ahead of the curve for the sense of progression and satisfaction of obtaining great loot for them. Keep the tailored companion specific looks, but make 3-4 for each companion so they can progress through the story (like Aveline did, but more).

#2174
Bekkael

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I am disappointed there will be no more DLC for DA2. :crying: I was really hoping there would even be an Awakening-sized expansion. I enjoyed Hawke and was looking forward to more.

#2175
Tsuga C

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Why don't you try returing the DA series to its original intent as written of during development? That'd be novel. For starters, you might want to re-examine the idea of magic items being rare instead of a dime-a-dozen. It was said that the average peasant wouldn't ever see a permanently ensorcelled item in their lifetime, but when low-level hurlocks, genlocks, and Masterlocks (darkspawn in charge of securing treasure chests :P ) all have magical gear, it (yawn!) leaves one a bit jaded.