ME had lots of exploration in it.Morroian wrote...
I'm saying Bioware games are not about exploration
So did BG.
Mark Darrah on the conclusion of Dragon Age II
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 19 2012 02:56
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#2226
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:53
Sylvius the Mad
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So did BG.
Retour en haut
#2227
Guest_BrotherWarth_*
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:53
Guest_BrotherWarth_*
Guest_BrotherWarth_*
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For the story, what I want is a clear goal. You said in response to a suggestion earlier that a more "traditional" storytelling approach is what you took away from that particular person's suggestion. I don't think we need it to be "There's a bad thing, gather your forces and kill it" or "The world is in chaos, you are the only one who can bring peace" traditional, but having a clear goal in mind is key. DA2 felt pretty aimless. I wasn't particularly invested in Hawke or his journey because it didn't feel very compelling when first I'm just trying to hit it rich, then getting pulled into politics just because I met a dude 3 years prior, then getting dragged into a conflict because other people are out of their minds. And in the end Anders was/is a much more important character so Hawke just seems like he's famous by association instead of being renowned for heroic or historic deeds.
Make the PC more important to the story than the superficial way Hawke was.
Make the PC more important to the story than the superficial way Hawke was.
Modifié par BrotherWarth, 20 mars 2012 - 10:12 .
#2228
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:54
Royal Heart
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On the Mysteries of the Ancient
Dragon Age, for me, has always been filled with a sense of mystery and the unknown. Secret histories hinted at but rarely explicitly spelled out and, when it the truth behind mysteries are revealed on those few occasions, it made me feel like I was one of the few, one of the special ones who knew something others did not. Every time a question is answered, it leads to more questions.
Who or what is Flemeth, really? Does the Maker really exist? Was the Black City once a Golden paradise for the souls of the devout? Why did the Primordial Dwarves not engage in ancestor worship? What's the difference between red and blue lyrium? Can Mages ever learn ways to be free from demonic temptation without having to become tranquil? We've already met one of the five original Magisters of Tevinter who became the first darkspawn - are the others still out there? Was Andrastae a Mage? Griffins? Is lost Arlathan still burried beneath that forest and, if so, could it be excavated? Are the Gods of the Dalish real and, if so, where do they dwell? After the Fifth Blight, that leaves only two of the Old Gods left untainted - will be seeing or hearing more about them? Are the Kossith related to dragons in any way? What does a Kossith or elven brood mother look like?
In DA:O and DA2 we see blood mages summoning demons and shades, yet if you take the Blood Mage Specialty you can do neither of these things. What's the difference between a PC and an NPC Blood Mage that could explain this?
I really like the aesthetic look of the elves in DA2. In DA:O they looked like humans but shorter and with pointed ears. In DA2 they had a more distinctive look, with some of them wearing turbans - this intrigues me. I would love to play another Origins-style game wherein you choose your race and your class, and to have this new aesthetic of elf available, or even the chance to play as a Kossith - perhaps even the choice to join or be part of the Qunari faith.
Other questions: Will we ever see an end to the ugly hat fad? I want to like characters' headgear, and some of the DA2 DLC did a lot to do that; I hope it continues (character asthetics really matter to me). Why are all the NPCs in my team wanting monogamous relationships (can't we be allowed to ho it up a bit)? Can male characters have access to makeup in the character creation stage like female characters can? Also: Piercings and body tattoos are awesome. Can future Dragon Age games return to characters, without everything unequipped, go back to just running around in their underwear? It was fun to run around Ferelden in my skivvys whilst smashing everything with a giant hammer (don't judge).
For same-sex male romantic interests: Characters like Alistair, Varric, Bann Teagan, et cetera ... would be really appreciated in future instalments. Basically: Strong, masculine, warrior types. Fenris was pretty darn close, though he was pretty lanky (and had a pixie cut which, while fashionable, isn't exactly butch) ... also, Fenris got on my nerves often. He could not stop complaining about his past or magic. I understand he was traumatized, but healthy and sane people work to get over these things, they're able to let things go. He came across as being unable to not interject some whining about his past into every discussion. Anders wasn't nearly as much fun in DA2 as he was in DA:A - a sense of humor can be sexy.
I would, in future games, also like to see the option to revisit most locations. This made it a challenge to acquire every Trophy, requiring multiple play-throughs in which I was focused solely on acquring and doing all things in one specific location, which caused my attention to the rest of the game to lapse.
The importance of choice is a major topic I'm sure others have mentioned time and again, and I just want to throw in my support for a return to having weighty choices return. We got to choose whether to preserve or destroy the Anvil of the Void, and who to put on the throne of Orzammar. These were big, important choices with far-reaching consequences. In DA2, no matter how you played it, Hawke's mom always dies and that remains, to this day, one of the most aggravating things about the game.
Beyond that, I'd just like to say thank you for providing me with many, many hours of fun. I've recommended the Dragon Age series to my friends and got a few of them to buy your games and to love them as much as I do. Keep up the excellent work!
Dragon Age, for me, has always been filled with a sense of mystery and the unknown. Secret histories hinted at but rarely explicitly spelled out and, when it the truth behind mysteries are revealed on those few occasions, it made me feel like I was one of the few, one of the special ones who knew something others did not. Every time a question is answered, it leads to more questions.
Who or what is Flemeth, really? Does the Maker really exist? Was the Black City once a Golden paradise for the souls of the devout? Why did the Primordial Dwarves not engage in ancestor worship? What's the difference between red and blue lyrium? Can Mages ever learn ways to be free from demonic temptation without having to become tranquil? We've already met one of the five original Magisters of Tevinter who became the first darkspawn - are the others still out there? Was Andrastae a Mage? Griffins? Is lost Arlathan still burried beneath that forest and, if so, could it be excavated? Are the Gods of the Dalish real and, if so, where do they dwell? After the Fifth Blight, that leaves only two of the Old Gods left untainted - will be seeing or hearing more about them? Are the Kossith related to dragons in any way? What does a Kossith or elven brood mother look like?
In DA:O and DA2 we see blood mages summoning demons and shades, yet if you take the Blood Mage Specialty you can do neither of these things. What's the difference between a PC and an NPC Blood Mage that could explain this?
I really like the aesthetic look of the elves in DA2. In DA:O they looked like humans but shorter and with pointed ears. In DA2 they had a more distinctive look, with some of them wearing turbans - this intrigues me. I would love to play another Origins-style game wherein you choose your race and your class, and to have this new aesthetic of elf available, or even the chance to play as a Kossith - perhaps even the choice to join or be part of the Qunari faith.
Other questions: Will we ever see an end to the ugly hat fad? I want to like characters' headgear, and some of the DA2 DLC did a lot to do that; I hope it continues (character asthetics really matter to me). Why are all the NPCs in my team wanting monogamous relationships (can't we be allowed to ho it up a bit)? Can male characters have access to makeup in the character creation stage like female characters can? Also: Piercings and body tattoos are awesome. Can future Dragon Age games return to characters, without everything unequipped, go back to just running around in their underwear? It was fun to run around Ferelden in my skivvys whilst smashing everything with a giant hammer (don't judge).
For same-sex male romantic interests: Characters like Alistair, Varric, Bann Teagan, et cetera ... would be really appreciated in future instalments. Basically: Strong, masculine, warrior types. Fenris was pretty darn close, though he was pretty lanky (and had a pixie cut which, while fashionable, isn't exactly butch) ... also, Fenris got on my nerves often. He could not stop complaining about his past or magic. I understand he was traumatized, but healthy and sane people work to get over these things, they're able to let things go. He came across as being unable to not interject some whining about his past into every discussion. Anders wasn't nearly as much fun in DA2 as he was in DA:A - a sense of humor can be sexy.
I would, in future games, also like to see the option to revisit most locations. This made it a challenge to acquire every Trophy, requiring multiple play-throughs in which I was focused solely on acquring and doing all things in one specific location, which caused my attention to the rest of the game to lapse.
The importance of choice is a major topic I'm sure others have mentioned time and again, and I just want to throw in my support for a return to having weighty choices return. We got to choose whether to preserve or destroy the Anvil of the Void, and who to put on the throne of Orzammar. These were big, important choices with far-reaching consequences. In DA2, no matter how you played it, Hawke's mom always dies and that remains, to this day, one of the most aggravating things about the game.
Beyond that, I'd just like to say thank you for providing me with many, many hours of fun. I've recommended the Dragon Age series to my friends and got a few of them to buy your games and to love them as much as I do. Keep up the excellent work!
#2229
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:54
Fast Jimmy
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I honestly don't envy the guys at Bioware the job of making DA3. Its going to be an uphill battle all the way through Release Day and beyond. One group of fans spits on the ground anytime they hear the word "Dragon Age" because of how much they disliked 2, another group is torn up that the cliff hanger ending of DA2 won't be resolved while playing their Hawke. Still others like both games and are pleased by the word you do, while others have demands that no game in the history of man has met as of yet.
What I would suggest is not making a type of game, with certain features or characteristics, but rather create something that is FUN. That sucks the player in. I don't care if you have fast combat, slow combat or combat that is done through playing cards... if the end result is enjoyable and addictive, your game will be successful.
Don't be so tunnel-vision focused on completing X feature that you forget to realize that this feature is absoultely no fun in the context of the game at large. PLAY your game. And let others, not just professional testers, but people like those seen on these forums. The type of players you are looking to convince. Have them spend ten, twenty, forty hours tweaking with your game before it goes Gold and let them tell you what's right, what's wrong, what they were hoping to see, etc.
Otherwise, they'll blast your game on the internet, tell none of their friends to buy your game, and THEN tell you what you need to change here. Its just smarter business to put a semi-finished game in front of your most loyal but critical fans and build off of there, rather than send it for a few weeks with the testers, have it go gold for two months, then find a wealth of things that were, in retrospect, just badly thought out because you were so focused on objectives that you missed the fact that the overall experience was not what you had visioned at all.
Less project plans, more proactive participation. When a whole segment of your fanbase freaks out at a feature, idea or concept, then MAYBE its a good idea to either tweak it or scrap it, instead of just assuming it "won't be a big deal." I've yet to see Bioware make a move like this that didn't turn out to be a big deal.
What I would suggest is not making a type of game, with certain features or characteristics, but rather create something that is FUN. That sucks the player in. I don't care if you have fast combat, slow combat or combat that is done through playing cards... if the end result is enjoyable and addictive, your game will be successful.
Don't be so tunnel-vision focused on completing X feature that you forget to realize that this feature is absoultely no fun in the context of the game at large. PLAY your game. And let others, not just professional testers, but people like those seen on these forums. The type of players you are looking to convince. Have them spend ten, twenty, forty hours tweaking with your game before it goes Gold and let them tell you what's right, what's wrong, what they were hoping to see, etc.
Otherwise, they'll blast your game on the internet, tell none of their friends to buy your game, and THEN tell you what you need to change here. Its just smarter business to put a semi-finished game in front of your most loyal but critical fans and build off of there, rather than send it for a few weeks with the testers, have it go gold for two months, then find a wealth of things that were, in retrospect, just badly thought out because you were so focused on objectives that you missed the fact that the overall experience was not what you had visioned at all.
Less project plans, more proactive participation. When a whole segment of your fanbase freaks out at a feature, idea or concept, then MAYBE its a good idea to either tweak it or scrap it, instead of just assuming it "won't be a big deal." I've yet to see Bioware make a move like this that didn't turn out to be a big deal.
#2230
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:56
Darji
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Tsuga C wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote on the BSN status update of EyesofaStorm...
"DAO was the compromise. DAO made all sorts of concessions to new players and console limitations and supposedly changing market expectations. DAO was a compromise between the game I want and those newer trends.
I'm not willing to compromise any further. If they want to take another good feature away, they need to replace it with something equally good. So far, they're not doing that."
^ Bravo, Sylvius. My mistaken impressions at the time were that the DA series was intended for the more traditional or "hardcore" roleplayers and that the ME series was to placate the action gamer segment of the market. Sadly, this proved not to be the case.
I want my hardcore emulation of a tabletop RPG back: silent protagonist, choices with profound in-game consequences, racial PC choices + origins, no parachuting enemies, no anime-style combat (but a bit quicker than DA:O), plenty of exploration, companions that'll actually leave if you sufficiently irritate them, no class weapon/fighting style limitations that make no sense (why the heck can't a warrior be an archer?), less magical swag, no preposterously designed weapons, none of this "iconic look" limitations for companions, no compromises for the KKs, and no G-d d-mn-d "awesome button".
Oh, and while you're at it, fire your present marketing team and start from scratch. We don't need any more nonsense of the "This is the New Excrement" variety.
Wasteland 2 google it XD
#2231
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:56
dream_operator23
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I liked both DA:O and DA II. Here is what I liked about each.
I really like the race selection in DA:O. If it really can't be in DA 3 then I can live with that, but I prefer playing as an elf over playing as a human.
I am probably in the minority in this, but I really like the art style of DA II. I much prefer it to the style of DA:O, but again I can live with an art style similar to DA:O, it's just not what I prefer.
I love companions! In both games they are one of the things I love the most. I think you are doing a great job on them. I really like having more personal quests for companions like in DA II.
Thank you for listening to our feedback!
I really like the race selection in DA:O. If it really can't be in DA 3 then I can live with that, but I prefer playing as an elf over playing as a human.
I am probably in the minority in this, but I really like the art style of DA II. I much prefer it to the style of DA:O, but again I can live with an art style similar to DA:O, it's just not what I prefer.
I love companions! In both games they are one of the things I love the most. I think you are doing a great job on them. I really like having more personal quests for companions like in DA II.
Thank you for listening to our feedback!
#2232
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:57
Mark Darrah
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- BioWare Employees
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- 55 messages
Compass idea is interesting.CrustyBot wrote...
Guess my dialog compass idea went unanswered/ignored. Pity, but I guess it won't hurt to keep posting it.
We will be looking at additional options and posibilities in this space.
The compass (at least as you present it here) has some issues on the consoles where screen real estate is at a premium.
That is not to say they have to be the same.
#2233
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:58
Arppis
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- 12 750 messages
Darji wrote...
It not only about the combat but even here I can say that you did not motch up the difficult level becasue of better controls but becasue it was totally unblanced and no challenge at all you most of the time just mashed your way through.
I never played origins on consoles or with a controller to begin with but here you could really play tactical something you just could not do in DA2 yes it was not even needed but still it was not possible.
But As I said its not only about combat. Its about complexity. about wanting more skills that are actually balanced. its about a real skillsystem not like the one from DA2. The best thing would be even to use actually D&D rules.
But they really need to decide on a direction. And they should tell the people their decisions when the game is getting formerly announced.
With DA2 these developer or marketing guys played a very very evil rule by trying to catch the Origins player too which almost blant lies. And this continued even after the Demo of DA2.
Origin people really complained alot after the demo becasue they already saw what is going wrong but bioware always said: "It will be ok and tactical trust us. You wont miss naything good from Origins" At that time people believed it becasue they had their trust but now this trust does not exist anymore.
This IP has 2 games and both are totally different. They need to decide what way they want to go with DA3 and they need to let us now right away with the real announcement of this game.
Then you should have tried playing the first game on 360. It was pretty annoying, to put it mildly. You know when you can't move your characters away from AOE effects because there is no "move here" button, it's annoying and interupts with the game.
DA2 FIXED THIS.
We finaly had a command to make characters move to the spots we desired, without having to manualy move them there. The game is doable, no doubt with higher difficulties, but it's not FUN to play when controls and your own team mates are fighting against you the whole way in.
Even when you put them to move away from AoE it didn't always work and they took unneccesary damage. So the 360 version atleast was pretty cripled.
Modifié par Arppis, 20 mars 2012 - 09:59 .
#2234
Guest_offline_*
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:00
Guest_offline_*
Guest_offline_*
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Mark Darrah wrote...
Maybe I should just put a stop to something right
now.
We ARE NOT going to:
* Burn DA2 to the ground
* Pretend it doesn't exists
* etc...
I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several
areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age gamesas well as other titles.
Starting your post by telling me to ignore the hard work of over a hundred people is NOT a good way to start a dialogue with
me.
This attitude it what scares me, it almost invalidates your initial comments. A lot of people hated DAII and loved DA:O so therefore is it not a valid request to ignore a game loathed by that person. Yes hundreds of people worked hard on that game, and I am sure were proud of the end result. THOUSANDS hated it. Our opinion is just as valid as the hundreds who made it.
I respect that you defend the game, and there were a few positive aspects but look at what your fans are saying. Look at the resulting loss of sales due to the direction DAII took. Look at the ongoing animosity and resentment due to that game. Don't let pride or ego or whatever blind you to the simple fact that DAII was the single worst RPG BioWare has ever made in terms of quality and commercial success. Look at DA:O very successful, and enjoyed (still) by the vast majority of your fans.
Whoever made the decision to change direction with DAII made a HUGE mistake and in my opinion needs to look at the great games from BioWare's catalogue and see that the one thing they all have in common is deep, and complex customization for the protag and all party NPCs, tactical and strategic combat, a rich 'epic' story, a meaningful and robust conversation mechanic (with multiple options), an open world(s) you are free to explore.
In short telling us that asking your team to ignore DAII or its numerous failings/shortcomings is telling us
that our opinion doesnt matter because its in opposition to yours.
As I said that attitude scares me... as nothing important will change and more fans hoping for a return to the
glory days of BioWare (like myself) will just stop caring.
I've been a fan since Baldur's Gate. I own(ed) every game. DAII is the only one I hated... and I mean hated. DA:O I adored.
You wanted an open dialogue,well you've got it. Don't discount an opinion because you don't like it. In my
honest opinion DAII was appalling and the only thing that can learned from it is that it is NOT how you make a Dragon Age title.
Modifié par Cryocore, 20 mars 2012 - 10:04 .
#2235
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:00
Darji
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- 410 messages
Thatit was bad control design. But DA2 was anything but not tactical at all. Again they need to decide what direction they want. And they needf to tell us very early.Arppis wrote...
Then you should have tried playing the first game on 360. It was pretty annoying, to put it mildly. You know when you can't move your characters away from AOE effects because there is no "move here" button, it's annoying and interupts with the game.
DA2 FIXED THIS.
We finaly had a command to make characters move to the spots we desired, without having to manualy move them there. The game is doable, no doubt with higher difficulties, but it's not FUN to play when controls and your own team mates are fighting against you the whole way in.
Even when you put them to move away from AoE it didn't always work and they took unneccesary damage. So the 360 version atleast was pretty cripled.
Modifié par Darji, 20 mars 2012 - 10:01 .
#2236
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:00
Gyrefalcon
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- 299 messages
1) Closure to Hawke's story would be extremely welcome!
2) Please have dialogue trigger further away from the exit points. Running to the next quest point would cause me to lose dialogue as they started speaking as I was clicking to leave an area.
3) If you are continuing this armor/weapon upgrade system, please allow all characters to be able to get at all the upgrades for their party members regardless of play style. Also, it was frustrating to not be able to put at least 1 rune on your current favorite weapons. We do enjoy customizing our stuff and our companions stuff.
4) Special requests: I (and I am not speaking for everyone here, just myself and possibly a few others) would love to see Anders managing to join the Mage resistance if he lived and Justice doing it if Anders was killed. There is SUCH a great arc you have going from loveable, to downward spiral, to dedicated revolutionary or even villain depending on how you spin the next installment. It has a great trilogy feel to it! Also: If there is no more DLC's can you please give Anders or Justice back his cat in your epilogue? Even the Anders haters would probably agree that you shouldn't take a man's cat! ;D
5) Question: Is the whole series actually about Sandal being an avatar of the Maker, watching all these different people to see if he will announce his return? (Boy we love to speculate about your games like it is the tv series Lost!)
Okay, have a great day all of you!
2) Please have dialogue trigger further away from the exit points. Running to the next quest point would cause me to lose dialogue as they started speaking as I was clicking to leave an area.
3) If you are continuing this armor/weapon upgrade system, please allow all characters to be able to get at all the upgrades for their party members regardless of play style. Also, it was frustrating to not be able to put at least 1 rune on your current favorite weapons. We do enjoy customizing our stuff and our companions stuff.
4) Special requests: I (and I am not speaking for everyone here, just myself and possibly a few others) would love to see Anders managing to join the Mage resistance if he lived and Justice doing it if Anders was killed. There is SUCH a great arc you have going from loveable, to downward spiral, to dedicated revolutionary or even villain depending on how you spin the next installment. It has a great trilogy feel to it! Also: If there is no more DLC's can you please give Anders or Justice back his cat in your epilogue? Even the Anders haters would probably agree that you shouldn't take a man's cat! ;D
5) Question: Is the whole series actually about Sandal being an avatar of the Maker, watching all these different people to see if he will announce his return? (Boy we love to speculate about your games like it is the tv series Lost!)
Okay, have a great day all of you!
#2237
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:00
smac83
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- Members
- 17 messages
- Less repeating Landscapes
- More variety in fights (Interessing Boss Enemies but also a greater variety in creeps)
- I'd like combat to be strategic... somewhere in the middle between DAO and DAII
and more interessting spells... especially for enemy casters, I had the feeling they only know 3 spells... and most of the time they resulted in instant death for my party members
- more exploration than DAII
- Decision that actually make a difference. when I decide to support the wizards I want a different endfight than when I fight for the templars.
- though I appriciated the attempt in DAII to get away from the hero saves world storyline I think DA3 should be more storydriven... the motivations of hawk often didn't really convince me.
- when I get a home in the game. I'd like to have more decisions... maybe choose from different homes or get a chance to improve it in different ways and maybe more casual outfits (yeah I know it'S sims style... but like stuff like that)
- the impact when playing a mage was far to little... considering the plot wizards vs. templars....
it would be great if it would make a real difference if you play a rogue or a fighter etc.
- I like it when I can play the game several times and always have another experience... (in DAII there were so many repeating landscapes it felt like a second playthrough on the first)
- bigger...
- more interaction with the world beyond combat and mainstoryline
- I don't think all romances should be bisexual... I think it should fit to a character
i don't have anything against bisexual romances but all the characters have their own agendas, stories, opinions and so on... and I think streamlining them all to bisexuality is not the way to go
why are there no complete gay romances ?
- ...and the game is dark fantasy... for adults. this doesn't mean every swordhit should lead to exploding limps instead make the world more dirty, grittier. more ****s, diseases, more people... that's what annoyed me about DAII. I didn't feel I had to get away from the first chapter... I had money, could go anywhere and the poor quarters didn't look so bad.. I mean gamlins home is as big as my home... so much space, so few people. and the graphics alone just weren't enough to deliver the feeling of being in a real bad place...
I think that's enough for a start
sorry for my english
- More variety in fights (Interessing Boss Enemies but also a greater variety in creeps)
- I'd like combat to be strategic... somewhere in the middle between DAO and DAII
and more interessting spells... especially for enemy casters, I had the feeling they only know 3 spells... and most of the time they resulted in instant death for my party members
- more exploration than DAII
- Decision that actually make a difference. when I decide to support the wizards I want a different endfight than when I fight for the templars.
- though I appriciated the attempt in DAII to get away from the hero saves world storyline I think DA3 should be more storydriven... the motivations of hawk often didn't really convince me.
- when I get a home in the game. I'd like to have more decisions... maybe choose from different homes or get a chance to improve it in different ways and maybe more casual outfits (yeah I know it'S sims style... but like stuff like that)
- the impact when playing a mage was far to little... considering the plot wizards vs. templars....
it would be great if it would make a real difference if you play a rogue or a fighter etc.
- I like it when I can play the game several times and always have another experience... (in DAII there were so many repeating landscapes it felt like a second playthrough on the first)
- bigger...
- more interaction with the world beyond combat and mainstoryline
- I don't think all romances should be bisexual... I think it should fit to a character
i don't have anything against bisexual romances but all the characters have their own agendas, stories, opinions and so on... and I think streamlining them all to bisexuality is not the way to go
why are there no complete gay romances ?
- ...and the game is dark fantasy... for adults. this doesn't mean every swordhit should lead to exploding limps instead make the world more dirty, grittier. more ****s, diseases, more people... that's what annoyed me about DAII. I didn't feel I had to get away from the first chapter... I had money, could go anywhere and the poor quarters didn't look so bad.. I mean gamlins home is as big as my home... so much space, so few people. and the graphics alone just weren't enough to deliver the feeling of being in a real bad place...
I think that's enough for a start
sorry for my english
#2238
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:00
DarkAmaranth1966
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- 3 263 messages
The problem is fun for you may not be fun for me. Maybe you like solving puzzles and I hate it, maybe I want to socialize more than fight because that's fun for me, maybe you hate doing nothing but talking for hours on end. So how do you define fun since it's different for everyone?
#2239
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:01
Realmzmaster
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- Members
- 5 510 messages
aka.seim wrote...
This is not about The Next Thing but the relationship with all of us. I hate your silent. Really, I hate so hard that I was not bought the next DLC. I would like you to change this. I would like you to answer more questions and if you can't just tell it.
Worse than the silent are some of your sarcastic answer that make feel so stupid for coming here to provide feedback or even bugs. I know I'm not the only one who feels the same.
This feedback is great. I hope this means you have change your mind about the relationship with your fans and buyers.
You have got to be kidding? Are you sure you are reading the same forum as the rest of us? The deveopers of Bioware are all over this fourm. Fron Stanley Woo to John Epler to MIke Laidlaw to David Gaider. I wish more fourms where like the Bioware forum. Go try some of the other developers forums and see if you can find a developer posting. Most of the communication from Bioware developers is outstanding. The developers here have put up with a lot from us.
#2240
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:02
Arppis
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- 12 750 messages
CrustyBot wrote...
Morroian wrote...
Melca36 wrote...
For $60 I dont want a dungeon that takes me 15 minutes to do.
I'm not saying have 1 short dungeon I'm saying have 20 shorter dungeons instead of 1 long dungeon.
Provided it's not the same dungeon copy pasted, of course.
It depends on what you're trying to convey, really. The Deep Roads was good for what it was supposed to be in the context of the world. If anything, it should've been bigger with more divergent paths and less linearity. Probably not plausible from a time/money/resources perspective.
But yeah. IMO, the Deep Roads should've been bigger.
Could have used more dialogue or characters OR some sub-adventure to go with it. But it wasn't bad imo either.
#2241
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:02
The Elder King
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Arppis wrote...
Then you should have tried playing the first game on 360. It was pretty annoying, to put it mildly. You know when you can't move your characters away from AOE effects because there is no "move here" button, it's annoying and interupts with the game.
DA2 FIXED THIS.
We finaly had a command to make characters move to the spots we desired, without having to manualy move them there. The game is doable, no doubt with higher difficulties, but it's not FUN to play when controls and your own team mates are fighting against you the whole way in.
Even when you put them to move away from AoE it didn't always work and they took unneccesary damage. So the 360 version atleast was pretty cripled.
You're right, with AOE there were problems in DAO. Though the fault is not on DAO's combat system (since on PC it has the option) but most likely the fact that DAO was a porting on Xbox, so they probably didn't have the time to do this.
#2242
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:02
CoS Sarah Jinstar
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Morroian wrote...
Melca36 wrote...
For $60 I dont want a dungeon that takes me 15 minutes to do.
I'm not saying have 1 short dungeon I'm saying have 20 shorter dungeons instead of 1 long dungeon.
If you look at the lore, the deep roads are expansive. It makes no sense to have tiny 10 min long small dungeons from a lore perspective. We're paying more for games these days, and people want less content because it bores them or whatever. Blows my mind seriously.
ME3 is a great example of this, just about every single quest in that game that had actual content beyond planet scaning ridiculousness felt claustiphobic and enclosed. If this is the direction all BW titles are going to take going forward, let us know now so I know not to bother.
#2243
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:03
Sylvianus
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I am reading this topic, and I can already see that people don't agree on anything except maybe the wheel, choices, etc and some other stuff. It will be worse when we'll see the first results.Fast Jimmy wrote...
I honestly don't envy the guys at Bioware the job of making DA3. Its going to be an uphill battle all the way through
For example : Do we keep DA2's artsyle ? Do we keep the gameplay combat like DAO or DA2 ? In these areas, no way we can agree.
This is just the beginning XD
Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 mars 2012 - 10:05 .
#2244
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:03
artsangel
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This is kinda crazy, but you know what I'd like? The ability to choose your PC's emotions during cutscenes. I don't mean with a dialog wheel or anything like that, but imagine something Little Big Planet style, where you could use the arrows during an otherwise non-interactive scene to change your character's expression with (sad, happy, angry, worried). There would be a preset expression for the scene otherwise, but you could have the option to pick something that better suited the character you were roleplaying. Imaging being able to choose whether to be angry or sad at your mother's death, or to frown disapprovingly when Isabela invites you back to her room.
#2245
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:04
Darji
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Realmzmaster wrote...
aka.seim wrote...
This is not about The Next Thing but the relationship with all of us. I hate your silent. Really, I hate so hard that I was not bought the next DLC. I would like you to change this. I would like you to answer more questions and if you can't just tell it.
Worse than the silent are some of your sarcastic answer that make feel so stupid for coming here to provide feedback or even bugs. I know I'm not the only one who feels the same.
This feedback is great. I hope this means you have change your mind about the relationship with your fans and buyers.
You have got to be kidding? Are you sure you are reading the same forum as the rest of us? The deveopers of Bioware are all over this fourm. Fron Stanley Woo to John Epler to MIke Laidlaw to David Gaider. I wish more fourms where like the Bioware forum. Go try some of the other developers forums and see if you can find a developer posting. Most of the communication from Bioware developers is outstanding. The developers here have put up with a lot from us.
But they are saying almost nothing.
They are saying wait and see, we look into it, I am sorry that you did not like it but many people and the New York times did like it etc. If you want an example how to communicate with your fans. Go to the Wasteland 2 forums for example. This game has not even begun and already there is alot of talk with Brain fargo his fans/backers and other guys from the team.
#2246
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:04
darth gringo
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Mark Darrah wrote...
Compass idea is interesting.CrustyBot wrote...
Guess my dialog compass idea went unanswered/ignored. Pity, but I guess it won't hurt to keep posting it.
We will be looking at additional options and posibilities in this space.
The compass (at least as you present it here) has some issues on the consoles where screen real estate is at a premium.
That is not to say they have to be the same.
I agree, it is interesting. UI design is tough, you've only got so much room to work with. Compound that with a safe zone, localization (I swear germans don't think of new words, the just lego one to the other), and variable screen resolutions, and you've got one heck of a chore on your hands. That's one thing I like about the radial menu. Because the DA's turn type it time-limited, you can "borrow" space while in a halted state and use that to bring more controls to the player. Man, DA is awesome
#2247
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:06
Darji
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Sylvianus wrote...
I am reading this topic, and I can already see that people don't agree on anything except maybe the wheel and some other stuff. It will be worse when we'll see the first results.Fast Jimmy wrote...
I honestly don't envy the guys at Bioware the job of making DA3. Its going to be an uphill battle all the way through
For example : Do we keep DA2's artsyle ? Do we keep the gameplay combat like DAO or DA2 ? In these areas, no way we can agree.
This is just the beginning XD
Exactly thats why they need to decide on a direction. If MArk and co do not want to admit that DA2 was terrible becasue they are emotional connected to this game becasue they put alot of work in it. Thats fine.
But than please dont tell anyone here that you want to have suggestions and than only choose the suggestions that do not "hurt" the quality of DA2.
Just try to talk like normal people.....
#2248
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:06
CoS Sarah Jinstar
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Mark Darrah wrote...
Compass idea is interesting.CrustyBot wrote...
Guess my dialog compass idea went unanswered/ignored. Pity, but I guess it won't hurt to keep posting it.
We will be looking at additional options and posibilities in this space.
The compass (at least as you present it here) has some issues on the consoles where screen real estate is at a premium.
That is not to say they have to be the same.
Easily addressed by going back to a numbered list with full dialog lines. Please give us this option. Please with sugar and sprinkles. Paraphrasing to put it bluntly outright sucks.
#2249
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:06
Breaker35
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Lol, ok, ( my comment was maybe a bit to weird to be answered ), but I really wish I could've had an answer to my previous comments ). :S
#2250
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 10:07
Arppis
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Darji wrote...
Thatit was bad control design. But DA2 was anything but not tactical at all. Again they need to decide what direction they want. And they needf to tell us very early.Arppis wrote...
Then you should have tried playing the first game on 360. It was pretty annoying, to put it mildly. You know when you can't move your characters away from AOE effects because there is no "move here" button, it's annoying and interupts with the game.
DA2 FIXED THIS.
We finaly had a command to make characters move to the spots we desired, without having to manualy move them there. The game is doable, no doubt with higher difficulties, but it's not FUN to play when controls and your own team mates are fighting against you the whole way in.
Even when you put them to move away from AoE it didn't always work and they took unneccesary damage. So the 360 version atleast was pretty cripled.
It was bad design, no doubt about that.
Every time they fix controls to be fluid and good, I'll rise difficulty a notch. This has been the case with ME1 and ME2 also. ME2 had pretty great controls, so I raised the difficulty up quite a bit.
Sometimes game is more easier when the controls are great. Controls should't be the enemy we fight against, it should be something that's there to convey our decissions precisely as possible.
Controls and the gameplay are actualy the things that are top priority for me in games. They are very important to me. But if game has great story and controls that don't do the job, I'll just switch it to easy and play trough it like that.
