2816 réponses à ce sujet

[hunterxx1xx]

Indoctrination wrote...

hunterxx1xx wrote...

Origins had multiple races and plenty of customization. DA2 had one race and cut back on customization. Strange

I can't think of a nice way to say you're objectively wrong, so I'm just going to be blunt. You are objectively wrong. Origins had a painfully obvious lack of customization when it came to armour. Rogues in particular were stuck with that one, awful leather skirt model for like 90% of their armour with the only diference between them being colour. DA2 actually had more customization when it came to armour aesthetics.

No comment.

[Pasquale1234]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Because they're damn good. That's how. And: $$$$. they're not paying a staff to do it.

Anyway, Mark Derrah's comment is very telling. It illustrates that Bioware's mindset hasn't changed one Iota since DA2. They're gonna do it again, despite all the feedback. DA3 will be Da2 with a bit more polish.

Not what I'm looking for, but oh well. Good thing they're not the only company pumping out RPGs....

DA3 will remake or break the franchise methinks. If it succeeds, then great. More DA. If it doesn't, they should probably pull the plug on the entire franchise, because they'll be putting a lot of time and work into games that don't give much of a return in profits once they hit store shelves.

EDIT: remake would probably be more appropriate then make, given how DAO already made the franchise.

Crazy thought here, I know...

What if they would have just used DAO's engine to develop DA2?

They already had beaucoup assets for it, and could have added more to build Kirkwall, the new companions and characters, etc.  Even if they hadn't designed any new armor sets, they still could have used all of the armor sets, weapon models, etc. they already had.  We could have fully customized our companions without them needing to build a lot more armor.  And it would have been easier/cheaper to build more maps for the Kirkwall area due to the assets they already had on hand.

They also could have used the original Lothering and existing areas in Ferelden to introduce us to the Hawke family before they fled at minimal extra cost.

And the darkspawn, cameos, etc. would have looked the same as they did in DAO.

Modders would have already had a toolkit for it, and a world of goodies that people could have used to extend their enjoyment of DA2.

Seems to me like it would have saved an awful lot of zots and allowed Thedas to keep its identity.

I guess they made some changes to provide improved graphics, but these other gameplay mechanics and world consistency are so much more important to me.

*Shrug*

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 21 mars 2012 - 02:05 .

[Teddie Sage]

VKmasa wrote...

Best news i've read in ages, the end of DA2!
The most horrendous excuse of a game.

You don't have to be so rude.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 21 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[hunterxx1xx]

Teddie Sage wrote...

VKmasa wrote...

Best news i've read in ages, the end of DA2!
The most horrendous excuse of a game.

You don't have to be so rude.

To some it was a slap in the face after spending 60 dollars on it expecting it to be a true sequel to Origins. 

[Dejajeva]

Maybe for people who can't figure out (on console) tactics to save their lives, automatically updating them when you level up your companions would be nice. I wouldn't touch tactics if I didn't have to. lol. Not on console anyway.

[Ekemeister]

Dragon Age 2? It was more like Dragon Effect. I enjoyed it nonetheless, however.

[Realmzmaster]

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Meris wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You are kidding about DAO's gameplay not being simplified? DAO is the game that started the simplifiction of the RPG elements in Bioware's games as compared to their ealier titles.

To be fair, the most complicated portions of older, dnd based, games was the issue of you not knowing how things work - which would normally happen because many things weren't well presented. The tooltips assumed you knew how DnD 2nd ed works and I've seen it's vets having trouble explain its more counter intuitive mechanics, like THAC0.

Never had any problems in that area. The manuals that came with BG1 and 2 even NWN were comprehensive. I did have an advantage in having played most if not all the major p n p systems out there. But DAO did borrow simplifications from the MMO's.

Yes it was simplified to a certain degree but RPG plaer could totally live with it. However they wont live again witha DA2 combat style. This does not work. It was even more simplified and made more actionary instead of atleast a bit tactical.

Again If you do the combat from orgins and make it a little bit faster. Something between DA2 and Orgins and also give us a tactical view. Most RPG players will be fine with that.

DA2 combat style work just fine for me. I had no problem setting the AI scripts in the Tactics screen for my companions like I did in BG1 BG2 and DAO. The only time I had to step in is when one of them go into trouble. I simply pause took control of that character issued the command went back to the party member I was controlling before.  The combat in DA2 is not that fast. It is more realistic than the combat in DAO. As i said before BG1, BG2, and NWN had faster combat than DAO.

What DA2 combat is more realtic? What the hell?...

And Yes I agree that BG and NWN2 combat was a bit faster than the one in origins. If they just do that it is totally fine. Overall the combat in DA2 was bad becasue there was no tactic invlolved at all. Fights were trigered, every encounter was a lucky guessing game becasue of  totally invisible wave spawns also it was almost impossible due to the lack of tactical camera.

And at most it was not even needed.  you just could mash your way through this game. Rogue were totally overpowered, and overall there was no balance at all.

There was no guessing game. It was a pattern. A three wave pattern that I pick up  in the first battle. The tactics were there. You simply did not get to use the tactics that you did in DAO. You simply could not tuck you mage in a safe spot and let them hurl magic with abandon. You actually had to watch them and your other characters.

I could tell if a party member was in trouble even if I could not see them at the time by their life bar. I simply switch to that character paused and selected what the character should do.  The waves keep you on your toes because they were not set battles which I thought DAO had to many of.  I did not need the tactical camera. I played mostly rogue and they are not over powered. DA2 had better balance between the classes than DAO.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 21 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[killnoob]

Hey mark:

Now that the mages all over Thedas are rebelling I want to see a world at war, not another Kirkwell please. I also wanna see another archedemon spawned. I mean, Dragon Age origin has its flows, but overall it felt great at the time when you first played it. Dragon Age 2 has its merit, but it felt crap when you realized the maps are being reused and all the choices are of no real consequence.

Take the combat in DA 2, mash it with DA:O, throw in Claudia Black, Jennifer Hales, a few branching choice and alternative endings and bang you have a winner.

[Ekemeister]

killnoob wrote...
[...]
Take the combat in DA 2, mash it with DA:O, throw in Claudia Black,
Jennifer Hales, a few branching choice and alternative endings and bang
you have a winner.

Your brilliance just made my day! 

[...] I did not need the tactical camera. I played mostly rogue
and they are not over powered. DA2 had better balance between the
classes than DAO.

I main rogue/infiltrator/assassin. Don't care if it's rift, wow, SWTOR, or DA:O. DA2's rogue is quite op when considering the team configurations. Shadow has Infinite crit/conceal & blink tank, and you obviously haven't seen some the of Rogue Duelist Nightmare solos. Ofc, Arcane Mage was as OP in DA:O as "Battlemage Jesus" is in Skyrim/Oblivion. So yes, the classes need to be reworked a bit.

I actually like DA:O because the ability/skill compositions were similar to tabletop design and allowed a greater freedom in playstyle. Dragon Age 2 reverted back to class stereotypes that make me want to stop buying rpgs at large: "i.e. rogue must wear tissue papers, use daggers, and execute one attack that is available from one mode or he can't win the fight without craftily and unstrategically exploiting bugs/mechanics (i.e. spamming the strafe keys and jumping over an enemy). I know that example doesn't technically apply to DA2, but my audience knows what I'm talking about.

Oh well, I won't buy Dragon Age 3 until after I read a couple of reviews and see what my friends think of it. Truth be told, we'll probably still be replaying DA:O and enjoying Guild Wars 2 by then.

Modifié par Ekemeister, 21 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[seraphymon]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Meris wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You are kidding about DAO's gameplay not being simplified? DAO is the game that started the simplifiction of the RPG elements in Bioware's games as compared to their ealier titles.

To be fair, the most complicated portions of older, dnd based, games was the issue of you not knowing how things work - which would normally happen because many things weren't well presented. The tooltips assumed you knew how DnD 2nd ed works and I've seen it's vets having trouble explain its more counter intuitive mechanics, like THAC0.

Never had any problems in that area. The manuals that came with BG1 and 2 even NWN were comprehensive. I did have an advantage in having played most if not all the major p n p systems out there. But DAO did borrow simplifications from the MMO's.

Yes it was simplified to a certain degree but RPG plaer could totally live with it. However they wont live again witha DA2 combat style. This does not work. It was even more simplified and made more actionary instead of atleast a bit tactical.

Again If you do the combat from orgins and make it a little bit faster. Something between DA2 and Orgins and also give us a tactical view. Most RPG players will be fine with that.

DA2 combat style work just fine for me. I had no problem setting the AI scripts in the Tactics screen for my companions like I did in BG1 BG2 and DAO. The only time I had to step in is when one of them go into trouble. I simply pause took control of that character issued the command went back to the party member I was controlling before.  The combat in DA2 is not that fast. It is more realistic than the combat in DAO. As i said before BG1, BG2, and NWN had faster combat than DAO.

What DA2 combat is more realtic? What the hell?...

And Yes I agree that BG and NWN2 combat was a bit faster than the one in origins. If they just do that it is totally fine. Overall the combat in DA2 was bad becasue there was no tactic invlolved at all. Fights were trigered, every encounter was a lucky guessing game becasue of  totally invisible wave spawns also it was almost impossible due to the lack of tactical camera.

And at most it was not even needed.  you just could mash your way through this game. Rogue were totally overpowered, and overall there was no balance at all.

There was no guessing game. It was a pattern. A three wave pattern that I pick up the in the first battle. The tactics were there. You simply did not get to use the tactics that you did in DAO. You simply could not tuck you mage in a safe spot and let them hurl magic with abandon. You actually had to watch them and your other characters.

I could tell if a party member was in trouble even if I could not see them at the time by their life bar. I simply switch to that character paused and selected what the character should do.  The waves keep you on your toes because they were not set battles which I thought DAO had to many of.  I did not need the tactical camera. I played mostly rogue and they are not over powered. DA2 had better balance between the classes than DAO.

You claim it was a pattern then go by that the waves keep you on your toes. DA2 Combat IMo was less realistic to DAO, in animation of moves, tactics, and wave pattern. With the latter of course being somewhat improved by DLC. Since all the battles of DA2 were the same, they are far more set than DAO, when you learn to expect waves after a while, you know what to do everytime almost.

I dont think rogues were OP in a sense, to me i blame the weapons because daggers, which are supposed to to be the weakest in dmg, turn out the highest, as well as fastest and therefore much higher dps.

[Night Dreams]

To be honest, I don't have much to add to the constructive criticism, as most of it is what has already been mentioned a thousand times (which, don't get me wrong, its a great way for the community as a whole to get its message across) but I do want to say one thing. Please do not make a Dragon Age/Skyrim hybrid.

Yes, Skyrim is a very successful RPG with some terrific elements. But the reason I play Dragon Age is because its Dragon Age. I still think Bioware needs to focus on the elements that make their games so addictive and good. One of these things is companions.

The companions were what made me continue loving DA2, even with all the things they changed when maybe they shouldn't have. This is just one example of what Bioware can do like no one else, and I don't want them taking away these aspects of 'The Next thing' only to replace it with what another game has already done very well.

[Rorschachinstein]

A large world is going to be a definite. But what we actually want is no more recycled dungeons.

[Teddie Sage]

Slap in the face or not, there is NO reason to be rude to the game developers.

[Realmzmaster]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Because they're damn good. That's how. And: $$$$. they're not paying a staff to do it.

Anyway, Mark Derrah's comment is very telling. It illustrates that Bioware's mindset hasn't changed one Iota since DA2. They're gonna do it again, despite all the feedback. DA3 will be Da2 with a bit more polish.

Not what I'm looking for, but oh well. Good thing they're not the only company pumping out RPGs....

DA3 will remake or break the franchise methinks. If it succeeds, then great. More DA. If it doesn't, they should probably pull the plug on the entire franchise, because they'll be putting a lot of time and work into games that don't give much of a return in profits once they hit store shelves.

EDIT: remake would probably be more appropriate then make, given how DAO already made the franchise.

Crazy thought here, I know...

What if they would have just used DAO's engine to develop DA2?

They already had beaucoup assets for it, and could have added more to build Kirkwall, the new companions and characters, etc.  Even if they hadn't designed any new armor sets, they still could have used all of the armor sets, weapon models, etc. they already had.  We could have fully customized our companions without them needing to build a lot more armor.  And it would have been easier/cheaper to build more maps for the Kirkwall area due to the assets they already had on hand.

They also could have used the original Lothering and existing areas in Ferelden to introduce us to the Hawke family before they fled at minimal extra cost.

And the darkspawn, cameos, etc. would have looked the same as they did in DAO.

Modders would have already had a toolkit for it, and a world of goodies that people could have used to extend their enjoyment of DA2.

Seems to me like it would have saved an awful lot of zots and allowed Thedas to keep its identity.

I guess they made some changes to provide improved graphics, but these other gameplay mechanics and world consistency are so much more important to me.

*Shrug*

They did use DAO engine to make DA2. DA2 just used a revision of the Eclipse engine called Lycium. So it was not a totally new engine. What happen is that Bioware made more use of third party software as plug ins to their engine. You cannot release a toolkit with third party software unless you pay for it and the third parties agree. 

[Melca36]

Combat in DA:2 is too fast and over the top like it came out of a Kill Bill flick.

I'm NOT saying making it slow like Origins just less over the top. The Rogue was ridiculous in DA:2.

[Rorschachinstein]

seraphymon wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darji wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Meris wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You are kidding about DAO's gameplay not being simplified? DAO is the game that started the simplifiction of the RPG elements in Bioware's games as compared to their ealier titles.

To be fair, the most complicated portions of older, dnd based, games was the issue of you not knowing how things work - which would normally happen because many things weren't well presented. The tooltips assumed you knew how DnD 2nd ed works and I've seen it's vets having trouble explain its more counter intuitive mechanics, like THAC0.

Never had any problems in that area. The manuals that came with BG1 and 2 even NWN were comprehensive. I did have an advantage in having played most if not all the major p n p systems out there. But DAO did borrow simplifications from the MMO's.

Yes it was simplified to a certain degree but RPG plaer could totally live with it. However they wont live again witha DA2 combat style. This does not work. It was even more simplified and made more actionary instead of atleast a bit tactical.

Again If you do the combat from orgins and make it a little bit faster. Something between DA2 and Orgins and also give us a tactical view. Most RPG players will be fine with that.

DA2 combat style work just fine for me. I had no problem setting the AI scripts in the Tactics screen for my companions like I did in BG1 BG2 and DAO. The only time I had to step in is when one of them go into trouble. I simply pause took control of that character issued the command went back to the party member I was controlling before.  The combat in DA2 is not that fast. It is more realistic than the combat in DAO. As i said before BG1, BG2, and NWN had faster combat than DAO.

What DA2 combat is more realtic? What the hell?...

And Yes I agree that BG and NWN2 combat was a bit faster than the one in origins. If they just do that it is totally fine. Overall the combat in DA2 was bad becasue there was no tactic invlolved at all. Fights were trigered, every encounter was a lucky guessing game becasue of  totally invisible wave spawns also it was almost impossible due to the lack of tactical camera.

And at most it was not even needed.  you just could mash your way through this game. Rogue were totally overpowered, and overall there was no balance at all.

There was no guessing game. It was a pattern. A three wave pattern that I pick up the in the first battle. The tactics were there. You simply did not get to use the tactics that you did in DAO. You simply could not tuck you mage in a safe spot and let them hurl magic with abandon. You actually had to watch them and your other characters.

I could tell if a party member was in trouble even if I could not see them at the time by their life bar. I simply switch to that character paused and selected what the character should do.  The waves keep you on your toes because they were not set battles which I thought DAO had to many of.  I did not need the tactical camera. I played mostly rogue and they are not over powered. DA2 had better balance between the classes than DAO.

You claim it was a pattern then go by that the waves keep you on your toes. DA2 Combat IMo was less realistic to DAO, in animation of moves, tactics, and wave pattern. With the latter of course being somewhat improved by DLC. Since all the battles of DA2 were the same, they are far more set than DAO, when you learn to expect waves after a while, you know what to do everytime almost.

I dont think rogues were OP in a sense, to me i blame the weapons because daggers, which are supposed to to be the weakest in dmg, turn out the highest, as well as fastest and therefore much higher dps.

Play an RTS once in a while you'll learn how to actually make it work. There is a difference between Real Time Tactics and Real Time Strategy. Supporting your flanks was just as important as figuring out what spell worked better on what enemy.

[LPPrince]

Hey guys, might want to simmer down on the quote pyramids.

[Teddie Sage]

I agree with LPPrince on this one. There's no need to make those huge quote pyramids. They're kinda hard on the eyes too.

[katiebour]

 Now that I'm home from work, a few other things I'd love to see:
TOOLSET.  Seriously, give us more story and a toolset, and we'll make our own armor!  Nexus has great stuff even without one, but actual utilities would help.
Companions with customizeable gear:

http://bit.ly/GEIDaI (Customized Anders)
http://bit.ly/GCGUnl (Customized Isabela)
http://bit.ly/GCollz (Customized Merrill and Aveline)
http://bit.ly/GEYUmw (Customized J!Anders)
http://bit.ly/GCH12a (Customized Carver)
http://bit.ly/GFUZop (Modded and customized Nathaniel Howe, as a companion)

Iconic appearance or no, the characters look great in other outfits, and this mod was easily my favorite among the many I have going.  It also made the reams of armor drops and DLC items useful, since I could share them with the party.

Also, if we'd had a toolset, I wouldn't have to swap Nate in for Fenris and mod extensively to give him an appropriate skill tree- we could simply have made him a companion in his own right, fan-made if nothing else, a la the fully-voiced fan-made Roland that works with DA:O and DA:A.

(If you give us a romanceable Howe in DA3, I personally know of about 30 people including myself who would be beyond ecstatic.  Add to that his tens of thousands of additional fans worldwide...  Just sayin'.)

Give us a toolset and the ability to equip as we see fit, please.  It's been said before that custom content is what keeps a franchise going between games, and in that respect DAII is sorely lacking.  We could have made our own dungeons, killing another oft-heralded complaint.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I still think it's kind of amusing how many people are praising Origins for being a great wonderful shining perfect example of an RPG when the same people were bashing it for not being BG2 when it released. Funny how things change.

Aside from the rushed elements (dungeon recycling, mainly) my real gripe was with the writing in particular points. While I understand there is a vocal contingent on the forums advocating same sex romances, no more of the shenanigans where you're actively punished (ie, rivalry points) by not wanting to have a guy jump in your pants in the very first conversation. Try and tone back on this, and keep characters -in character- next time if they've already had a preference established in a previous game.

The characters outshine the plot in most games like this, and while DA2 had some that were very enjoyable (Varric, for starters) some were just grating to deal with, especially in light of how they were before (Anders). I'm not saying you have to tone the romances back to BG2 level of "slow", but some time passing (and active interest from the player) would help a lot.

Gameplay-wise, I think a combination of DAO and DA2 is the solution, much like ME3 was. Handle it like that and I'm sure it will solve a lot of complaints.

[Realmzmaster]

[quote]seraphymon wrote...

snip
I did the same with DAO. Once I learned the layout of the battle the rest was easy. A lot easier than DA2. Set battles are easy to defeat and hinders replayability because you know where the enemy is going to be.  I have a seven party team. Three rangers, three pets and a tank. The party simply steamrolled everything in its path. I specifically created parties with no mages to get a challenge out of DAO. If you took a three mage party and a tank into DAO it really was a cakewalk. 

Edited to remove pyramid

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 21 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[hitorihanzo]

LPPrince wrote...

Hey guys, might want to simmer down on the quote pyramids.

This. 

Whoops... 

[Pasquale1234]

Realmzmaster wrote...

They did use DAO engine to make DA2. DA2 just used a revision of the Eclipse engine called Lycium. So it was not a totally new engine. What happen is that Bioware made more use of third party software as plug ins to their engine. You cannot release a toolkit with third party software unless you pay for it and the third parties agree. 

Perhaps I misspoke, but the point I was trying to make was missed.

If they had not made those graphics changes, they could have used many of the existing assets from DAO - including the armors that fit on all of the body models.

IMHO, losing that ability to customize your character - and for the modders to lose their modding pleasure - was a pretty heavy price to pay for some supposedly improved graphics (I say supposedly improved because it is a matter of opinion).

[John Epler]

Alright, let's kill those quote pyramids, please. They're making the thread very difficult to read.

And as to a second point - please feel free to state your opinion, but do so respectfully. Belittling a group of people because they have different preferences than yourself is unnecessary and rude.

[Fenrir81]

I'm playing on Ps3, i would like if mod was not only available for pc, can you do something about it, like make them available for console?