96 réponses à ce sujet

[Super.Sid]

Tirigon wrote...

coles4971 wrote...

Well they rushed out the ending because some idiots leaked the story before release.

No way can Bioware take all the blame for this.

Eh, even if this would be the case they could take the blame. They would have to take it twice, even: Once for rushing because of a leak  - there is no reason to do that - and a second time for being unablt to keep their sh!t secret.

But eh, what's to expect. Mass Effect 2 was available to pirates 2 weeks before release. They have a history of leaking things, or as it were entire, finished, games.....

Oh cmon, you want to say that a corporation cannot secure its assets against hackers ?

[Bobrzy]

They already had ideas for different endings (you can find them in Art Book from CE, also in game files themselves, where you can find dialogues and moments that never occured in the game), but Casey Hudson and Mac Walters had a discussion between themselves, and came out with the endings we have now. It was a delibarate CHOICE, they had ideas, time and resources, but they CHOSE to scratch them and give us this.

My post may seem vague, but i can't say more ("no spoilers allowed here" rule).

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

terralax wrote...

http://www.inenterta...t-3-conclusion/

Says it all really. Effectively they ran out of time to finish a proper ending and went with the easy speculative ending. As a professional writer, I know  this is a trick to cut corners and save time. When a number of devs question whether or not the ending can be completed in time you have to worrry as Bioware staff do know what they are doing and this was back in march 2011. The ending as it currrently stands wasn't implemented to very late in 2011, by all indications December. They had to cut a good deal from what they wanted to do, and as it has been stated during the DLC controversy the game was sent for certification in Jan 2012.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the staff who worked on ME3 and their hard work. Spinning the game by stating that you are not going to do something with the ending and then doing exactly that is an affront to anyone who buys it.  It would have been much better to end the game as it currently does with the additional "secret" scene and a to be continued...and used the end pop-up message to state the coming of a free DLC to wrap it all up Rather than use the development time after the game was sent to be certifed to make the from the Ashes DLC. A quick PR statement to this end, saying that BW/EA appreciates it customers and that they made the creative decision that ensuring the game had the best ending was in the interests of all.

[Getorex]

Random citizen wrote...

Its a reasonable assumption.
I will give them time to recover their honour.

One must first HAVE honour to recover that honour.  I've seen no evidence of the former. 

They have a chance here to gain honour.  I am helping them by deleting ME3 from my PC and downloading my Origin/EA Games-offered exchange. 

Yesterday I initiated a complaint to EA Games about ME3 seeking a refund.  After a series of back and forths, they offered to replace my Mass Effect 3 game with another game of my choice of the same price.  My replacement is NOT a Bioware title.

When/if Bioware pulls its head out and fixes the ending so that 1) it doesn't murder the entire franchise; 2) invites replay; and 3) invites replay via multiple different Shepards I will be happy to buy ME3 again.  They do the right thing, they get rewarded.  The way it is supposed to work.

Here's a nice synopsis of a review of Mass Effect 3 by the California Literature Review:

http://calitreview.com/24673

The
abstract says "Mass Effect 3" commits storytelling suicide" and calls
the ending "a thing that ruins dreams", all the while acknowledging that
excepting the end, ME3 is the best game in the series. The ending is
bad enough to reduce the overall rating to 2.5/5.

The most important sentence I think is this:

Unification
through altruism and sacrifice is thrown out for pure nihilism: each of
the choices you’re forced to make results in Shepard committing some
level of genocide or another, with the benefits removed from any
relatable emotional touchstone to the intangible space of far flung
statistics.

Modifié par Getorex, 19 mars 2012 - 05:36 .

[aries1001]

And why would a ending to a game? make you think an otherwise very good, if not great game? is suddenly bad?

As for the showdown with the Illusive Man. Please, yes. This would, imo, have been much better than the actual endings we have now. Then people would have had a sense of accomplishment....that they, and their Shepard, actually helped achive something. On it being to video-gamey, yes it is, but ME3 is a game first and foremost, it is not an interactive novel, short story or play. And in game, an end boss there must be.

As for the From Ashes DLC, get used to it. It may sound harsh, but such is the nature of game development. On the not knowing how the game is going to end in detaial, this to me seems like a big flaw from Bioware. The most important part of any story is the actual ending - in detail. Imagine if Joker had learned to fly the Normandy, but not learned how to land?

[Getorex]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

Once the ball starts rolling they're very stubborn about delaying due to the stuff I mentioned (and quarderly sales figures... damn publicly traded companies...).  Broken contractual obligations = devs/publisher have to pay them money for not meeting deadlines.  Of course if everyone in the room agrees to a delay then it's just a contract renegotiation.  But again, Blizzard is practically the only one that can get away with that these days.

Getorex wrote...

Amazon.com is giving refunds for returned
Mass Effect 3. Origin/EA Games is offering to exchange ME3 for another
game of your choice of equal value. You are NOT stuck with this
loser...and you can always buy it again later if/when Bioware pulls its
head out of its ass and fixes the ending.

A fixed ending is one that makes it worthwhile and rewarding to do multiple replays.

Hmm,
but if I return now and then rebuy later, their PR will just count that
2nd purchase as another sale to add to their total instead of first
subtracting 1 from my return and then re-addeding 1 from the 2nd re-purchase.. "PR spin to win!" aka more lies.

Yes, but the trick is to not buy until and unless the ending is properly fixed.  No fixy, no buy-y.  Double win.  You get your money back OR a different game and Bioware cannot count a sale as a win until AFTER they fix it.  

[Torrible]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Well naturally gay sex and cgi cinematics were more important than giving the ending all of the time and money it deserved. I'm glad to see that Bioware have their priorities straight.

Don't forget

1) design and lore of homeworlds and other planets
2) completely new enemy types (both design and A.I)
3) creating new squadmates instead of recycling ME2 ones
4) improved combat and weapon mod system
5) multiplayer

I think that if the ending was indeed rushed, it was due to other aspects of the game taking up too many resources rather than a blatant lack of respect for the fans.

Modifié par Torrible, 19 mars 2012 - 05:40 .

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Tirigon wrote...

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

That really only works for Blizzard.  Once the juggernaut's gears start turning, things "need" to ship on time regardless of quality.  The developer, BioWare, signs contracts with the publisher, EA, that says it'll be ready by date X or there will be financial penalties such as not getting paid.  The publisher has contracts signed with all major retailers like Best Buy that says the product will be on their shelf by date Y.  The retailers base their marketing and make promises to consumers based on date Y.  A delay that causes a miss of date Y results in financial penalties for the publisher and then the developer because it makes the retailer look bad to the consumer for 'lying' about when they can come in and buy it.  So there is a huge pressure on the publisher and in turn on the developer to ship on time and quality be damned.  Why do you think so many games get rushed?

Maybe companies should start publishing their games themselves instead of letting them be bound by stupid contracts, then?

Wouldn't that be nice?

[Super.Sid]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

That really only works for Blizzard.  Once the juggernaut's gears start turning, things "need" to ship on time regardless of quality.  The developer, BioWare, signs contracts with the publisher, EA, that says it'll be ready by date X or there will be financial penalties such as not getting paid.  The publisher has contracts signed with all major retailers like Best Buy that says the product will be on their shelf by date Y.  The retailers base their marketing and make promises to consumers based on date Y.  A delay that causes a miss of date Y results in financial penalties for the publisher and then the developer because it makes the retailer look bad to the consumer for 'lying' about when they can come in and buy it.  So there is a huge pressure on the publisher and in turn on the developer to ship on time and quality be damned.  Why do you think so many games get rushed?

Maybe companies should start publishing their games themselves instead of letting them be bound by stupid contracts, then?

Wouldn't that be nice?

Publishers fund the project

[Tirigon]

Super.Sid wrote...

Publishers fund the project

BioWare made better games before they were with EA.

And so did every company that has ever been with EA.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Super.Sid wrote...

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

That really only works for Blizzard.  Once the juggernaut's gears start turning, things "need" to ship on time regardless of quality.  The developer, BioWare, signs contracts with the publisher, EA, that says it'll be ready by date X or there will be financial penalties such as not getting paid.  The publisher has contracts signed with all major retailers like Best Buy that says the product will be on their shelf by date Y.  The retailers base their marketing and make promises to consumers based on date Y.  A delay that causes a miss of date Y results in financial penalties for the publisher and then the developer because it makes the retailer look bad to the consumer for 'lying' about when they can come in and buy it.  So there is a huge pressure on the publisher and in turn on the developer to ship on time and quality be damned.  Why do you think so many games get rushed?

Maybe companies should start publishing their games themselves instead of letting them be bound by stupid contracts, then?

Wouldn't that be nice?

Publishers fund the project

Shush.   In fantasyland where they can self-publish they can also afford everything in the first place.

[Rafe34]

Tirigon wrote...

Super.Sid wrote...

Publishers fund the project

BioWare made better games before they were with EA.

And so did every company that has ever been with EA.

That would be interesting.

To go to all companies that EA took over and see if a single one of them actually put out better games after they were taken over.

[MICHELLE7]

I'm kinda leaning toward the thought that they had enough time...they did say the game was playable long before it was released and then they delayed it. If it wasn't a creative decision it might have been due to finances. Things may have had to be cut to keep from going over budget...I hope that isn't true...hate to see the story sacrificed for multiplayer and kinect.

[Tovanus]

coles4971 wrote...

Well they rushed out the ending because some idiots leaked the story before release.

No way can Bioware take all the blame for this.

I don't believe that for one second. No good storyteller is going to ruin their story because people have the ability to spoil it for themselves.

The other funny thing about the leak (and I didn't learn this till recently, because I had never heard of the leak till long after I had beat the game) - the reaction to it was that the ending was terrible and full of plotholes. And it was. It's really too bad they didn't listen to the critical opinion of the people who did read the leak back then. If they rushed anything, it was maybe a smaller cutscene or a few less ornaments here and there. But the lazy writing and plotholes - that was ALL Bioware.

[Farbautisonn]

Rafe34 wrote...

That would be interesting.

To go to all companies that EA took over and see if a single one of them actually put out better games after they were taken over.

-Ive been gaming since befoire the commondore 64. I have yet to see a gaming studio get better from EA. Bullfrog, Origins, Westwood.... Remember Ultima? Wingcommander? Syndicate? Populous? 

I do. And now Origines is "steam" v 0,35. Bullfrog is "syndacate"... a pathetic pew pew... etc.... EA taints and ruins what it touches. Bioware... Well bioware is ME3... A game where a single issue has overshadowed all the other bugs that were there. So Im asking you again... what do EA do to studios? 

[aj2070]

Getorex wrote...

Amazon.com is giving refunds for returned Mass Effect 3. Origin/EA Games is offering to exchange ME3 for another game of your choice of equal value. You are NOT stuck with this loser...and you can always buy it again later if/when Bioware pulls its head out of its ass and fixes the ending.

A fixed ending is one that makes it worthwhile and rewarding to do multiple replays.

The fact that EA is giving any kind of an exchange for a game simply because of the fan's reaction to the game speaks volumes.

[Darth_Ultima]

Doesn't matter if they rushed it or if they planned to do this all along. The game was fantastic right up until the last ten minutes and then it went all wrong. I congratulate the team who made 98% of a fantastic game. To whoever thought that ending was a good idea shame on you.

[XiaShou]

aj2070 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Amazon.com is giving refunds for returned Mass Effect 3. Origin/EA Games is offering to exchange ME3 for another game of your choice of equal value. You are NOT stuck with this loser...and you can always buy it again later if/when Bioware pulls its head out of its ass and fixes the ending.

A fixed ending is one that makes it worthwhile and rewarding to do multiple replays.

The fact that EA is giving any kind of an exchange for a game simply because of the fan's reaction to the game speaks volumes.

sure cause they keep the money in the bag, and dont have to bother with the uproar, this is by noo means good for the fans. a full refund would be good, otherwise this is just clever usage of "shifting money insider the company"

[Getorex]

XiaShou wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Amazon.com is giving refunds for returned Mass Effect 3. Origin/EA Games is offering to exchange ME3 for another game of your choice of equal value. You are NOT stuck with this loser...and you can always buy it again later if/when Bioware pulls its head out of its ass and fixes the ending.

A fixed ending is one that makes it worthwhile and rewarding to do multiple replays.

The fact that EA is giving any kind of an exchange for a game simply because of the fan's reaction to the game speaks volumes.

sure cause they keep the money in the bag, and dont have to bother with the uproar, this is by noo means good for the fans. a full refund would be good, otherwise this is just clever usage of "shifting money insider the company"

It isn't all for one and one for all there.  If Bioware is screwing the pooch, they aren't going to get money that EA gets via one of the other developers.  They don't take revenues from Medal of Honor and shift it over to Bioware all even-Steven.  Bioware takes a hit when the money is shuffled around inside EA away from Bioware.  An exchange or refund counts as a huge tick against Bioware.  That is what matters and it speaks MUCH louder than complaints in a Bioware forum.

[Northernian]

There is a rule that every storyteller knows: Finale. This is probably the most important part of your story and you cannot screw with this. All the things you've built so far is so that you can finally catalyze them in the climax.

Look at stories such as the original Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and even Harry Potter. They all have endings that do justice to the whole story. Explored in depth, the villains' own backgrounds are even more awe-inspiring and terrifying, and stage by stage their defeat were progressed with hard labour and imbuing your blood and sweat with it.  

Mass Effect could have been like them. It is just...could have been... we never expected to have a happy ending. Hell, I am not very prone to that. And indeed, there should have been at least '1' good ending for those who want. At least 1. Not even that is given. But worse, the endings we got are purely insults the gamer who invested years into the whole story.

Now how could I go back to play it again, since I know that everything I have done is for naught? ... Even in real life, you reap what you sow. No matter what happens. So where is this whole "realism" we have been told of?

If you are producing an art and marketing it, you become responsible to your fans, customers, or whatever...this is just bad business.

The endings are so bad, so horrendously bad that I want to lose control and flame the hell of their butts. Damn you Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, and all the EA puppets systematically ruined the best game I have ever played ... or so I imagined. You should really be sacked for destroying your own baby in such a horrendous way.

Rushed out ending?... What a boondoggle!

Modifié par Northernian, 19 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Abirn]

If you want to call video games art then it has to be treated like art, You don't rush art out to get it set at a release date. You release it when its finished. Look at the great videogame companies. Valve, blizzard, they constantly take the approach that they will release it when its ready. Generally the are considered the top two video game developers of all time. There is a reason for that.

I forgot who said it but "A game is late once, but it will suck forever".

[Darth_Ultima]

aries1001 wrote...

And why would a ending to a game? make you think an otherwise very good, if not great game? is suddenly bad?

As for the showdown with the Illusive Man. Please, yes. This would, imo, have been much better than the actual endings we have now. Then people would have had a sense of accomplishment....that they, and their Shepard, actually helped achive something. On it being to video-gamey, yes it is, but ME3 is a game first and foremost, it is not an interactive novel, short story or play. And in game, an end boss there must be.

Many people find it ironic that ten minutes can ruin all three games but that is what happened to a great many people.  For most people the thrill was not beating some end boss.  This was supposed to be it for a great many people who wanted to see how there decisions would affect this world they became so familiar with and it just failed to deliver.  Instead of having our questions answered all we have are more questions the chief being why?  I finished the game before many of my friends and some of them where even more disappointed then I was.  One even said, "Well that was the biggest **** you to the fans I have ever seen."   Mind you this was a friend I had introduced to the first and second Mass Effect who had never even heard of them.  He doesn't care if they fixed the end or if this was the end they intended to give he has been completely alienated.  In fact many of my friends would have never played these games without me recommending them.  All of them want nothing more to do with Mass Effect.  You might not understand it but this is a huge deal to a great many people.

[daguest]

coles4971 wrote...

Well they rushed out the ending because some idiots leaked the story before release.

No way can Bioware take all the blame for this.

I'm not responsible for the leak. I didn't even read about what was leaked.
But I still pay the price for it ? That's not fair.

It seems obvious the end was rushed. You don't use a deus ex mahina, and "lots of speculation" end when you have time to makes something good. I disagree on the "we need a end boss" this news say. Shepard is a warrior, but he is a diplomat. Ending the game in a conversation fight is good, and TIM power, as mentioned in the artbook, lie in the words and money, not in weapons.
Frankly, the end is good, even with some plot hole, but it doesn't really matter, until the elevator come. Then it's full of garbage. It seems it was planned to end here, but maybe BW though they needed more speculations, and added the starchild stuff.

[darkshadow136]

I'm not sure on the rushing thing, considering for me at least the rest of the game seemed pretty solid and polished, they ending just seemed like it was written by a different team altogether and a bad story writing team.

I really don't see the logic in why they wrote the ending they did, but I haven't seen the logic in much Bioware has done in the last few years.

[Tirigon]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

Doesn't matter if they rushed it or if they planned to do this all along. The game was fantastic right up until the last ten minutes and then it went all wrong. I congratulate the team who made 98% of a fantastic game. To whoever thought that ending was a good idea shame on you.

I quote that, for truer words have rarely been spoken.


Well or actually they have because about 80% of the ME3 players say that, but I quote it anyways. Truth doesnt get worse by repetition:lol: