163 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

When a lot of these reviews are coming up, talking about just how badly written and conceived the ending is, I can't help but wonder what Hudson/Walters and Co. think.  Do they honestly still think they came up with a great ending?  Are they that arrogant?

I don't think so, if you mean them personally.

I don't even believe, that this ending was REALLLY that, what they intended.

But then, they're working for a company and thus obliged to speak out only the statements which were approved by their employer.

[Clarian]

pipsfootyeye wrote...

for what it's worth, I think they've got the games the wrong way round.... this is how i'd have done it.

1. Mass effect 1. Leave as is.
2. Mass Effect 2. Take out all the rubbish and insert the ME3 storyline (but with collectors/collector base instead of citadel) - but leave us on a cliffhanger. Is shep alive or dead after the explosion.
3. Mass Effect 3. The real bad guys. Reapers - but use the structure of ME2 to structure ME3 until the final catastrophic battle when your actual choices in ME 1 & 2 will actually decide who dies in this final standoff with harbie the reaper hanging around in the citadel reaper making factory instead of arnold.
4.  An ending that actually makes some sense and offers a degree of closure - even if shep dies.

just a thought.

Whoa.  I really like that idea.

Yeah, having Shep die at the START of 2 and immediately come back isn't very cliff-hanger-y.  Doing it at the end would be cooler.  And having 2 supposedly be a suicide mission even though you know there's going to be a 3...yeah, better the other way around.

A bit late now, of course...

[Overule]

So, maybe I'm generalizing here: but did anyone else take away from this that game devs can't be trusted? Like moreso than before you finished ME3?

Honestly I may never buy a game on launch day ever again... game devs seem to take it as an invitation to take advantage of you >.>

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

"....it must be stated: for 98% of its runtime Mass Effect 3 is arguably the best game in the series. "

Absolutely agree. Which, I think, is what makes the crap ending that much crappier.

"The gestalt of Mass Effect 3 is an end unjustified by its means, unworthy of defense. During its final moments it commits storytelling suicide, and the taste of decay it leaves in the mouth cripples the otherwise impeccable quality of what came before, poisoning even nostalgia against it. At best and being fair to the game’s other traits, the quality comes out a wash – simply mediocre."

My God, it's like he looked into my very soul when he wrote that review. Thanks for posting this, perfectly sums up my feelings for the game. If Bioware isn't willing / able to 'fix' the ending it will be interesting to see where things go from here. I for one have zero interest in buying additional DLC which leads to the same crappy conclusion.

[naledgeborn is back]

Best analogy off the top of my head is probably a bad break up. And I'm not really feeling all the angst because I genuinely like the Indoctrination Theory.

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

Overule wrote...

So, maybe I'm generalizing here: but did anyone else take away from this that game devs can't be trusted? Like moreso than before you finished ME3?

Honestly I may never buy a game on launch day ever again... game devs seem to take it as an invitation to take advantage of you >.>

I feel the same way. After finishing the game the only two possible conclusions I could draw were either:

1. The ending was simply rushed and sloppy due to pressure to release the game on time, lack of resources due to the tacked on mp element, whatever. Final analysis - gigantic dissapointment and a poor ending to an otherwise fantastic game franchise.

2. The ending was simply rushed and sloppy because the plan all along was to bilk their fans for additional DLC to 'fix' the crappy ending, making this possibly the biggest scam in video game history. Final analysis - the corporate overlords have won.

And likewise, this is the last game I buy until I have read some unbiased user reviews.

[Deepo78]

 It's almost like the ending was handled by a completely different team who had the game story dictated to them off the back of a cereal box.

Modifié par Deepo78, 20 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Fleenots]

Well, when I saw in the Demo that Thermal clips that looked liked thermal clips, and worked like thermal clips where now called ammo. And when there was a dreadnought exploding in the skies of a generic city (later on excused as a script error and easily corrected) that something very wrong would come out. But, hey guys it is only a game and as customers we have the ultimate power of buying it or not. Even if I am a big fan of the ME franchise, I think there is a bit of overreacting going on. But that is just my opinion.

Modifié par Fleenots, 20 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

As soon as I read about the (relatively) last minute decision to tack on a multiplayer element I had concerns about how the game would turn out. My suspicion was that they would have to cut some corners in the single player experience, which looks to have been the case.

And to be honest this is the first time I have ever experienced any degree of angst over a game ending, which is a testament to how much I enjoyed the series - I haven't felt 'invested' in a game franchise like this since Baldur's Gate.

[string3r]

Bioware secretly hired Deitz to write the ending.

[string3r]

Also I did have a hard time getting to sleep last night after finishing ME3.

It's hard to get over just how bad it is.

Modifié par string3r, 20 mars 2012 - 09:13 .

[Getorex]

string3r wrote...

Also I did have a hard time getting to sleep last night after finishing ME3.

It's hard to get over just how bad it is.

Two ibuprofen PMs washed down with beer.  That will do the trick.

[200mW LASER]

Indeed,I wanted ponies and butterflies with pink asari babies and geth moonwalking....

[Getorex]

Thought experiment for you folks who think the current ending (with stargazer et al) is all hopey.

How many people crew the Normandy? Let's say 30. How many men, how many women? Let's make it easy and say it's 50:50. OK, so the crashland on goofy planet and later they have apparently created a civilization that produced startgazer and the little kid he tells stories to. How did they do this?

Let's make this simple. Let's say we have 8 people, 4 men, 4 women. This gives us 4 couples (we ignore the fun and kinky partner swap because this doesn't help matters one bit). These 4 couples have 2 kids each (doesn't matter how many they have, 2, 3, 8, 10, the results will be the same) - one boy, one girl. This is the F1 generation. OK, how many possible mate groups can each boy or girl select from for their own mate to avoid incest? Three. Each boy and each girl have 3 groups of siblings from which to choose a mate. They make babies. Doesn't matter how many. How many groups are available for mate choice for THIS generation to avoid incest? Two. Do you see the problem? Do you see what's happening? Even if you start with 15 couples, you still end in the same place just a few generations later. In no time at all, you cannot mate anymore because EVERYONE will be a half-sibling to someone else. Everyone.

See? The Normandy crew are royally f*cked. They survived but it would be horribly unethical, even immoral, for any of them to have kids. There can never be a stargazer and a kid to tell stories to. They cannot happen. The crash of the Normandy is full of hopelessness, not hope, especially since the relays are gone. Game over, so to speak. So even those who LIKE the ending...you are full of beans...or you find hope in brother-sister sex.

[Fleenots]

Well I don't know about the immoral part. In matters of survival of the species i don't think moral counts that much, but you are right in one thing. The genetic pool for procreation and survival of the species would be too small for it to work and they would be condemned to failure.

[Ieldra]

I think they wanted to go for this "Garden Eden" symbolism. As far as I'm concerned, that didn't just backfire in an epic way because of the inconsistencies and the concrete implications, it also goes against everything I believe in.

That image isn't hopeful. It destroys hope. A scene on Earth, where people crawl out of the rubble and start rebuilding, that would've been hopeful.

[o Ventus]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

When a lot of these reviews are coming up, talking about just how badly written and conceived the ending is, I can't help but wonder what Hudson/Walters and Co. think.  Do they honestly still think they came up with a great ending?  Are they that arrogant?

I don't think so, if you mean them personally.

I don't even believe, that this ending was REALLLY that, what they intended.

But then, they're working for a company and thus obliged to speak out only the statements which were approved by their employer.

It forces the question.

ME3 had, what? 8 writers? Did NONE of them think these endings were a bad idea?

[hudakj]

The symbolism clearly points to Shepard being the human question mark and the catalyst AI's argument is proven without a shadow of a doubt using geometric logic.

That or the ending is utter nonsense, all but devoid of creativity or satisfying conclusions.

[AlanC9]

This is really getting spoilerrific, but since the OP itself was pretty bad I'll leave that to the mods.

Getorex wrote...

Thought experiment for you folks who think the current ending (with stargazer et al) is all hopey.

How many people crew the Normandy? Let's say 30. How many men, how many women? Let's make it easy and say it's 50:50. OK, so the crashland on goofy planet and later they have apparently created a civilization that produced startgazer and the little kid he tells stories to. How did they do this?

Let's make this simple. Let's say we have 8 people, 4 men, 4 women. This gives us 4 couples (we ignore the fun and kinky partner swap because this doesn't help matters one bit). These 4 couples have 2 kids each (doesn't matter how many they have, 2, 3, 8, 10, the results will be the same) - one boy, one girl. This is the F1 generation. OK, how many possible mate groups can each boy or girl select from for their own mate to avoid incest? Three. Each boy and each girl have 3 groups of siblings from which to choose a mate. They make babies. Doesn't matter how many. How many groups are available for mate choice for THIS generation to avoid incest? Two. Do you see the problem? Do you see what's happening? Even if you start with 15 couples, you still end in the same place just a few generations later. In no time at all, you cannot mate anymore because EVERYONE will be a half-sibling to someone else. Everyone.

See? The Normandy crew are royally f*cked. They survived but it would be horribly unethical, even immoral, for any of them to have kids. There can never be a stargazer and a kid to tell stories to. They cannot happen. The crash of the Normandy is full of hopelessness, not hope, especially since the relays are gone. Game over, so to speak. So even those who LIKE the ending...you are full of beans...or you find hope in brother-sister sex.

But this all assumes that the Normandy somehow happened to crash on a garden world with no other inhabitants whatsoever and that no other starships survived. Neither one of these is plausible.

There's a stupid reading of that scene that isn't workable, but it isn't a problem for the Normandy crew,

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Ieldra]

naledgeborn is back wrote...
Best analogy off the top of my head is probably a bad break up. And I'm not really feeling all the angst because I genuinely like the Indoctrination Theory.

I've been thinking exactly that, like a really bad break-up. No clean cut, it's festering.

As for indoctrination, you know it's bad if a significant part of the fanbase just wants to disbelieve the whole thing.

[AlanC9]

Going back to the review in the first post, I don't quite see how the "green" ending involves any kind of genocide.

[Ieldra]

AlanC9 wrote...
There's a stupid reading of that scene that isn't workable.

The problem is that the scene suggests exactly that: a pristine garden world with no civiization, where you can start again from tech level zero. That doesn't evoke hope. It evokes despair. 

[Ieldra]

AlanC9 wrote...
Going back to the review in the first post, I don't quite see how the "green" ending involves any kind of genocide.

Yeah, that was an exaggeration for emphasis, unless you count the Arrival parallel (being vague to avoid concrete spoilers). But what the green ending does sounds almost as bad, unless you know the underlying transhumanist theme they've mangled so utterly with the retarded, logic-defying description and the added eschatological symbolism.

[AlanC9]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
There's a stupid reading of that scene that isn't workable.

The problem is that the scene suggests exactly that: a pristine garden world with no civiization, where you can start again from tech level zero. That doesn't evoke hope. It evokes despair. 

Sure, it looked that way. But that's not plausible. If a world that good is that close to Earth it's been colonized by somebody unless there's something really wrong with it. So what we're looking at is a empty part of a planet with some population centers somewhere.

And even if we think that some kind of Wacky Space Magic tossed the Normandy into some completely new sector of space where there are such uncolonized worlds, there's no reason other ships couldn't be tossed there too, if you think this is supposed to be a new planet and a new start.

Which doesn't mean ther'es no despair with that ending. I'm just  saying that genetics doesn't mean that this scenario is unworkable.

[Ieldra]

(slight spoilers greyed out)
You misunderstand. It's not the genetic implications that evoke despair, that's a side-issue. It's the Garden Eden scene as such, the suggestion that nothing is left but to start over at tech level zero. Even if there are other plausible interpretations, the suggestion is there.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 mars 2012 - 09:03 .