192 réponses à ce sujet

[Super.Sid]

Space Magic = ENCHANTMENT ?

Get the reference

[Theodoro]

An ending does not usually decide how good a game is, but an ending irrevocably decides how good a story is. With the conclusion that we've got for this otherwise epic Mass Effect saga, all replay value has been lost, and all of our choices have been made seemingly negligible. So I believe that we have every right to be disappointed in Mass Effect's ending because we want a suitable conclusion to a magnificent story that we didn't quite get.

[Vincent Rosevalliant]

For most games story doesn't matter, therefore the ending doesn't matter either.
(sports-games, strategy games, shooters) But even these types of games have goals. Scoring more points or defeating a map, whatever it is people work towards that goal and it drives them -> it's their motivation. Their reason for playing the game in the first place.

Now with Mass Effect the motivation for most players was to get our hero (Shepard FTW) to stop bad guys and save the helpless from overwhelming odds. But more importantly make decisions that changed the world around us.

We could choose how our hero did this and often had multiple options. The options were only fun if they affected the next part in some way. Seeing the consequences of your actions change the mass effect universe was our goal for playing the ME games. Our motivation.

*MASS EFFECT 1 SPOILERS*
This is why the Virmire mission is the best part of ME1. Everytime we see Kaiden/Ash we are reminded that they are still there because of a decision we made way back when. At the ending of ME1 not everyone suvived but our hero and we as players achieved our goal: We stopped the geth, stopped Saren, saved the Citadel and became heroes in the process.
*END OF SPOILERS*

We did what we set out to do and were rewarded with a world we helped shape. Same for ME2 and we got even more (short term) exposure on what our actions cost us.

So if the motivation for the gamer is to fight for the survival of their species, and it turns out that there is no way to achieve that, people are gonna say: "what's the point". But that is not even the worst part. Not telling the story of how the player influenced the galaxy around him after everything's done is just horrible writing. Also it made no sense.

It's like giving the sports-gamers (who are mostly competitive and like winning) a match that never ends. Have fun never winning! Sure you can play forever but what's the point, right? Also everytime you score nothing happens.

So basically in a story driven game the ending is needed to motivate the player to invest time into the game and yes it is therefore needed to make the rest of the game relevant.

[Alithinos]

It's not because what happens in the ending is IN THE ENDING.
It's because what happens in this ending shouldn't happened at all,beggining,middle,ending.

Have you played mindjack ? A game where some people send you to steal other people's minds and in about the middle of the game the people that ordered you to jack minds tell you that they made a huge discovery,that minds can be jacked ? While they already sent you jack other people's minds about a 1000 times before that ? Well that made that game make no sense,it broke it to pieces.

I use this example because I don't want to spoil the ending,since we are in the "no spoilers" forum.
But I hope you get my point.
My point is that it isn't the fact that these thing happens in the END of Mass Effect 3,but that it just happens,no matter that it's at the END,it could be on the middle or something.

[Siegdrifa]

The ending is the last pieces of a puzzle that could either enhance the whole picture, fit the picture, or ruine it (it's very subjective).

The ending shouldn't be ignored, and focusing on the journey alone is not right as all the parts is important to artisticly achive the oeuvre.

That said, imagine those who hate it (exemple), they get it like the mona lisa was add a red nose of clown... the whole work AMAZING futher they advance and more awsome part are added... and the last pices is a.. red nose of clown ???
No wonder it ruine the whole work done, because it doesn't fit so much in their opinion, they can't look at the rest and think it's that great anymore, part by part yhea, as a whole, not anymore.

To be faire, i think game should be judged by what they did great and what doesn't went well, and tell why.
I didn't "hate" the ending, but being an artist, i know that just a few messed detail can screw the whole work and diminish greatly his potential. So i understand the people who said it ruined the whole game or franchise for them.

Edit : here is a few exemple of personnal stuff not related to my work to prove my "opinion of artist".
http://social.biowar...4711/183513.jpg
http://social.biowar...4711/184812.jpg
http://social.biowar...4711/184814.jpg (work in progress)

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 19 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Razorsedge820]

The ending means allot to me especially when I put so much of myself into the Mass Effect trilogy. Even If you take the bad ending away all Mass Effect 3 is a mediocre 3rd person shooter with horrible AI and some customization options, the story was forgettable and the dialogue was cut down way too much, none of the decisions you make change the game greatly and have no effect on the ending whatsoever.

I don't even want to replay ME3 again with all my other Shepard's because it seems useless to me. I am very disappointed with Bioware.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 19 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[aj2070]

Atakuma wrote...

Not at all, it's completely irrational to judge an entire game based on a bad ending.

Respectfully, I disagree.  When you as a developer are telling anybody who will listen how your choices will frame the end of the game and how this is "your" story, eliminating the key feature of a game in the last 5 minutes does in my opinion affect the game's total quality.

This isn't Battlefield 3 or the Modern Warfare series where the developers were telling a story and we were along for the ride, this was framed from the beginning as a narrative with consequences the player controls; without an "A, B, or C ending".  We got an A, B, or C ending.

[PaulSX]

it depends on player's motivation towards the game. if they already had a premise on how the game would end then their judgement of the game based on the ending is understandable. But to me, mass effect is always just a interactive cinema with branching narrative. Unlike Dragon Age Origins, it never really emphasized on choices and consequences. That's why I think ME3 is successful as a conclusion of the trilogy.

Modifié par suntzuxi, 19 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Farbautisonn]

Atakuma wrote...

Not at all, it's completely irrational to judge an entire game based on a bad ending.

HAHAHHAH..... "completely irrational". Aside from the Peak-end rule and all the littearary doctrin outthere taught by every single university that teaches litterature and studies the works of old... How would you feel if hansel and gretel got eaten by the wolf if the second they got out of the pancake house? 

ME3 isnt great storyelling. ITs crap storytelling. The end.

[Linus108]

Normally I would say no.

But there are two reason's it does for ME3. For starters, Mass Effect is heavily story based. Meaning, a huge chunk of what makes the game is in fact the story. The other issue is, the ending basically retcons a lot of the past plot. Anytime an ending undoes or changes past plot, it ruins what came before it.

So yes, the ending does matter in this case. If the ending was just bad, or people didn't like it would be one thing. But when the ending is THIS awful where it pretty much breaks away from the entire story at the last minute, and redefines the entire plot, yes it does ruin the game.

[wright1978]

Yeah it pretty much does define a game, especially if it is the end of a trilogy ending.

[Pinkflu]

If it's a story-based game? Yes.

[Farbautisonn]

If you want a good "tragic ending" there is one outthere that makes all others pale. Hans Christian Andersen wrote "The Little Match Girl". In less than two pages a tragedy that speaks volumes and ends in the saddest possible way has a "happy end". An ending that defines "bittersweet".

ME3s endings are crap. Dont try to sugarcoat it.

[Linus108]

Farbautisonn wrote...

If you want a good "tragic ending" there is one outthere that makes all others pale. Hans Christian Andersen wrote "The Little Match Girl". In less than two pages a tragedy that speaks volumes and ends in the saddest possible way has a "happy end". An ending that defines "bittersweet".

ME3s endings are crap. Dont try to sugarcoat it.

The whole tragic argument is nonsense.

What someone sacrifices himself for either validates or invalidates the sacrifice. People aren't upset because Shepard sacrificed himself in the end. They are mad at what he/she sacrificed himself for. 

Modifié par Linus108, 19 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[Farbautisonn]

Linus108 wrote...

The whole tragic argument is nonsense.

What someone sacrifices himself for either validates or invalidates the sacrifice. People aren't upset because Shepard sacrificed himself in the end. They are mad at what he/she sacrificed himself for. 

-You might not know it but you made my point. Thanks. 

[Faceless Minion]

As a review put it, having an ending effect the whole is only a matter of taste if you don't have any. This endnig totally corrupts the entire experience. It is like having a lovely relationship, a marriage incoming, only to have them, at the end, run off and elope with your dog.

Of course it impacts things.

[Ryoten]

Some people say its more about the journey than then ending. However the end reflects the journey.

[XiaShou]

ME3 wrote...

Im Tired of seeing people hating on ME3 Because of its ending.

seriously, theres something between ur ears, try and use it.
Maybe ull figure out, why people dislike the ending so much.

[Faceless Minion]

XiaShou wrote...

ME3 wrote...

Im Tired of seeing people hating on ME3 Because of its ending.

seriously, theres something between ur ears, try and use it.
Maybe ull figure out, why people dislike the ending so much.

Insulting people that disagree with our stance is hardly going to suddenly help win them over.

[KroganShields]

Yes. Ending, in any games actually, takes a big part of deciding if the game is good or not. ESPECIALLY when the game is a trilogy and this is the final game in the series.

Even though like alot of people said that 99% of the game was just awesome, that one precent can ruin everything in the game. People have been waiting for six years for the game to come out, plus you have a company promising stuff to you that makes you think that as soon as you'll boot your copy in your consle/computer you will **** all over the place and through the whole game you beg to have a ending that will match the quality of entire the game, instead you get a big b*tch slap to the face.

So yeah, it matters.

Modifié par KroganShields, 19 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Linus108]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

The whole tragic argument is nonsense.

What someone sacrifices himself for either validates or invalidates the sacrifice. People aren't upset because Shepard sacrificed himself in the end. They are mad at what he/she sacrificed himself for. 

-You might not know it but you made my point. Thanks. 

Was actually agreeing with you. Just adding on to what you said. 

I guess I should have made my post more clear. I was just saying that you're right, the tragic ending we got was awful. And people pointing towards it being tragic, therefore good are just missing the point. 

Modifié par Linus108, 19 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[LilyasAvalon]

ME3 is like a cracked diamond. Beautiful and perfect and glorious except for one fatal flaw that ruins the whole thing.

[JunMadine]

When an ending completely negates the whole purpose of the story yes. The ending made everything you did in the entire series meaningless. The galaxy is worse off then if the reapers had won.

[darkshadow136]

Yes it negates the whole ME story lore in one shot.