459 réponses à ce sujet

[Denethar]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Denethar wrote...

I swear half of these people that like the ending must be bough by EA or something, there is no way that there is so many of them that actually spend so much time defending it. A post here and there I get, not whole threads.

It's funny that you'll spend time speculating on this and not any time wanting to speculate on the subject at hand.

You win, obviously.

It's kind of hard to bring up the will to argue a subject that is already proven in about 2 000 other threads.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Linus108 wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

No you haven't. You don't read what anyone really says. You just know you disagree with them, and then find a generic way to say that there COULD be an explanation.

And yet, you still have not found a way to explain why there is a room at the top of somehwere, that can magically fuse organic and robot DNA. A generator that if you shoot it, somehow destroys all synthetics.

You can't defend space magic, because it's space magic. 

Actually, yes I have.  And I do read what everyone else says.  But there are explanations.  

And about "space magic"- Husks, Marauders, Banshee's etc., as well as the Cerberus commandos all have organics and synthetics mixed.  Why is it so hard to believe that the Crucible's radiation blast couldn't do similar things?

About the actual ending choices- they are obviously symbolic.  They easily could have had you push buttons 1, 2, or 3, but the fact that you destroy something for destroy, hold on to something for control, and jump into the middle of something for assimilate are simply literary devices that capture the symbolism of what you're actually doing.

So symbolism trumps logic?

Sometimes it does. Ever read Paradise Lost. Not sci-fi I know but jsut an exxample of literary symbolism trumping logic.

[CaptainZaysh]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Introducing a "plot twist" at the last minute that forces Shepard to commit the very Galaxy-wide genocide that he/she sacrificed so much to try and prevent throughout 2.95 games....makes it objectively bad.

No, it just means you don't like it.  I would respect that if that's what you were saying, but it's not.

xxskyshadowxx wrote...
Also space magic is objectively bad.

cough cough mass effect fields.

[sadako]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

sadako wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

sadako wrote...

I agree with OP, it's brilliant how they saved money by changing the colours of the explosions and labelling it multiple endings. Simply brilliant! You guys underestimate the financial acumen and intelligence that is bioware.

So...you're basically angry there wasn't more CGI?

Nope, I'm angry because they promised something else (see the promises signature below) and gave us something else entirely, and it was so obvious they were trying to save money.

I never complained about their previous products, but this takes the cake. It's like them advertising/promising a ferrari and then selling you an econobox for the same price as a ferrari.

Do I think the problem will get fixed? Doubtful, hence you don't see the retake logo in my sig. But I do want the company to know that you do not troll the customers and not expect to get burned. I just do not want to take drastic measures like taking them to court just to prove my point. I am doubtful I can win the case, but I'm sure it will make them very cautious about promising things they cannot deliver just to increase preorder sales.

The fact that you ignored their pre release promises just means that you're either a casual fan trolling for attention, or a corporate sockpuppet.

And thus the captain disappears back into the fold or the corporate skirt.

Just to be clear were these statements about the ending made before or after fans asked them to change it the first time?

If so, why are some people defending their right to maintain the endings as being rightful now?
I'm not so naive to believe that their PR releases aren't pre-planned to a certain extent, but look at the recycled footage in the ending, and I just can't put it in my head that they did that thinking about fans and not the the budget saved. Considering the ME3 marketing effort, the ending isn't sucky for lack of budget, that's for sure.

[jumpingkaede]

nikola8 wrote...

About the Normandy- why is the "only possible" explanation that Joker was fleeing?  What is to say that he didn't simply get hit from the blast of the Crucible while flying over Earth in the final battle while fighting the Reapers?  That makes much more sense given Joker's character.

So your possible explanation is that the Normandy was trying to outrun the Crucible blast?  

Or that he got hit by the Crucible blast while flying over Earth?

You are CORRECT; either would make more sense.  Well, not the trying to outrun the Crucible shot part because the Crucible fires in a straight line but...

You may want to rewatch the ending.  And if you want to tell me that starting at 1:47 it looks like Joker getting hit by the Crucible blast on Earth... even though you clearly see the blast following him at 1:53 and the Normandy either in FTL or in a relay jump... well.

I don't know what to say to you.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 19 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[ergonomalous]

nikola8 wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

No you haven't. You don't read what anyone really says. You just know you disagree with them, and then find a generic way to say that there COULD be an explanation.

And yet, you still have not found a way to explain why there is a room at the top of somehwere, that can magically fuse organic and robot DNA. A generator that if you shoot it, somehow destroys all synthetics.

You can't defend space magic, because it's space magic. 

Actually, yes I have.  And I do read what everyone else says.  But there are explanations.  

And about "space magic"- Husks, Marauders, Banshee's etc., as well as the Cerberus commandos all have organics and synthetics mixed.  Why is it so hard to believe that the Crucible's radiation blast couldn't do similar things?

About the actual ending choices- they are obviously symbolic.  They easily could have had you push buttons 1, 2, or 3, but the fact that you destroy something for destroy, hold on to something for control, and jump into the middle of something for assimilate are simply literary devices that capture the symbolism of what you're actually doing.

This design was obviously built into the citadel. Since the citadel is part of the catalyst then why didn't he make the choice a long time ago? They never explain why he can't make that choice. Or if the crucible can manipualte the AI to create new solutions then why don't they tweak it for the best possible solution? like no destruction.

At the end of the day literary devices shouldn't affect the logic of your work.

[Nevaeh15]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Nevaeh15 wrote...

Can someone explain why Joker picked up the team and fled? Symbolic or not that's completely the opposite of what the crew was.... Proof of lack of thought put into the ending...
I can take a crap on a canvass and call it art... From what I can tell in this forum quite a few would love it... still stupid though...

To me it seemed like he was trying to outrun the energy pulse.  He may well have intended to return immediately afterwards.  I agree it wasn't explicitly shown what he was doing and BW could have been clearer on the exact events, but to me it's not really a big deal.

So.... Joker went down to earth... through the war happening... picked up the crew who were supposed to be holding down the line in the FOB... then flew to the Mass Relay all in the time it took for the first pulse to fire?   

Come on... just admit it's stupid.

[DentedHalo]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Denethar wrote...

I swear half of these people that like the ending must be bough by EA or something, there is no way that there is so many of them that actually spend so much time defending it. A post here and there I get, not whole threads.

It's funny that you'll spend time speculating on this and not any time wanting to speculate on the subject at hand.

You win, obviously.

in all fairness its very diifcult to argue with someone who just casually says that the galactic community will just need to get to work on building their own relays... you know... as if that was an even remote possibility this side of a century... especially without relays to allow colaboration between star systems!  how can you argue with such logic... seriously...

[Agamo45]

I bet you enjoy being raped up the ass too.

[Linus108]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

No you haven't. You don't read what anyone really says. You just know you disagree with them, and then find a generic way to say that there COULD be an explanation.

And yet, you still have not found a way to explain why there is a room at the top of somehwere, that can magically fuse organic and robot DNA. A generator that if you shoot it, somehow destroys all synthetics.

You can't defend space magic, because it's space magic. 

Actually, yes I have.  And I do read what everyone else says.  But there are explanations.  

And about "space magic"- Husks, Marauders, Banshee's etc., as well as the Cerberus commandos all have organics and synthetics mixed.  Why is it so hard to believe that the Crucible's radiation blast couldn't do similar things?

About the actual ending choices- they are obviously symbolic.  They easily could have had you push buttons 1, 2, or 3, but the fact that you destroy something for destroy, hold on to something for control, and jump into the middle of something for assimilate are simply literary devices that capture the symbolism of what you're actually doing.

So symbolism trumps logic?

Sometimes it does. Ever read Paradise Lost. Not sci-fi I know but jsut an exxample of literary symbolism trumping logic.

At any point where symbolism sacrifices coherent plot, the writing is bad. I'm sorry, but it is. I'm more than okay with Symbolism.

But if you curve your writing and story (to the point it doesn't make sense) just to fit some higher symbolic meaning, you haev failed as a writer. 

Modifié par Linus108, 19 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Luc0s wrote...

It doesn't matter how the mass-relays blow up. blowing up is blowing up. There is no way Earth or any other planet near a relay could survive that.

You're just making that up.  You pull statements of fact like that out of your ass, then demand to know why they weren't addressed.

[Brahlis]

Whenever I see someone talking about how they liked the ending, I just think of this.

[Yttrian]

Welcome to the 2.5%

The rest of us are not so pleased.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Denethar wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Denethar wrote...

I swear half of these people that like the ending must be bough by EA or something, there is no way that there is so many of them that actually spend so much time defending it. A post here and there I get, not whole threads.

It's funny that you'll spend time speculating on this and not any time wanting to speculate on the subject at hand.

You win, obviously.

It's kind of hard to bring up the will to argue a subject that is already proven in about 2 000 other threads.

Proven? I've read every complaint about it and I didn't realise that opinions are made true because of majority.

I guess we should have just ignored the black community back in the 60's, because the differing opinion was 'proven'.

It's opinion. I've stated numerous times that the ending is not perfect; but it's definately not nearly to the level taht people get so aggitated about it.

Now let's see what is proven; accidental release of ending script enraged fans; so they begged Bioware to change it. Now many of those same fans want them to change it again because they didn't like what they got.

And people talk about circular logic?

[garf]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

garf wrote...

However FTL travel has limitations. What would be day trips with the Mass Relays now are year and decade long journeys.

Also there's a limit to fuel bunkerage and heat disapation. FTL has a firm range limit  based primarly on how far ships can travel before they cook their crews (this is all in the codices)

Citadel space is like loose beads representing the tiny bubbles of FTL accessable space around a given Mass Relay tied in a net by the long strings of the jumps relays provide.

Sure, you're absolutely correct.  But without the relays, we are going to have to start developing new solutions to these challenges.  Whereas before there was little incentive to do so, it's now the key to linking up with our brothers and sisters out there in the stars.  We have to figure out a way to make it happen - just like we do today on Earth.  I think there is a future, and I'm fascinated and excited with the prospect of imagining what it would look like after the Reaper War changed everything.

Which was my point that you left out... Changed EVERYTHING. This isn't an 'exciting new chapter' this is Bioware one upping Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and throwing a whole society a richily detailed universe and one HECK of an untapped playground over the Reichenbach falls.

[Vhalkyrie]

Luc0s wrote...

Also, the mass-relays are a huge trademark of the Mass Effect francise (just like the light sabers in Star Wars).

With the relays gone, Mass Effect lost one of it's iconic trade-marks. Not a smart move from BioWare I'd say.

Good point.

[sadako]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

An asteroid that was a converted mining faciltiy would increase the size and yield of the blast signifigantly; and it was only suggested by someone who wasn't certain that any relay explosion would destroy an entire system. Please note that the relay destructions were self-destruct; not a considerable mass increase because of a large asteroid.

Considering that an atomic blast. Most of the damage is due to the shock wave, while the maximum damage at ground zero is substantial, the shock wave is perhaps the most damaging.

Considering the shockwave of the explosion could be seen at the galactic level and enough to push away those huge relay rings (in the FMV)

I'm sure there's minimal damage. SERIOUS.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I think the ending would have been thousands of times better if Anderson's last words were "Were it so easy"

[CaptainZaysh]

DentedHalo wrote...

in all fairness its very diifcult to argue with someone who just casually says that the galactic community will just need to get to work on building their own relays... you know... as if that was an even remote possibility this side of a century... especially without relays to allow colaboration between star systems!  how can you argue with such logic... seriously...

Seriously, this is simply you wanting a happier ending.  I honestly think the majority of the fan rage here is rooted in this.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

I can see why lots of people wouldn't like them, but the idea that they are objectively bad is nonsense.

I've actually explained extensively multiple times why it was an objectively bad ending but the california literary review take on it is perhaps the best summary:

Sloppy execution that reuses art assets reveals that it’s a hurried inclusion. The under thought and over pretentious dialogue does nothing but create bizarre, confusing plot holes. It even commits the same sin The Devil Inside did earlier this year, and has the gall to add an advertisement by the producers at the end of the credits, which is frankly insulting.

Far more importantly though, it betrays key themes and values well established by the series thus far. Past player choice impacting the shape of events is negated in favor of an arbitrary and poorly explained “pick your favorite color” moment. Science fiction justification in an otherwise material world is abandoned for magical deism, since quite literally, a god in a machine appears. Unification through altruism and sacrifice is thrown out for pure nihilism: each of the choices you’re forced to make results in Shepard committing some level of genocide or another, with the benefits removed from any relatable emotional touchstone to the intangible space of far flung statistics. It even manages to make The Reapers, one of the more imposing forces of antagonism in recent memory, come across as foolish pawns.

Source: http://calitreview.com/24673

So forgive me if I'm not going to be as happy about it as you apparently are. I can't just overlook these kinds of issues.

Thank you so very much for this link I beleive I have found my favorite quote in regards to the endings

"A few nights ago, I finished Mass Effect 3. As the credits scrolled I again sat silent in the dark, dumbstruck by what I had beheld. Not out of the bittersweet satisfaction that comes with the conclusion to any story, but in the confusion and anger that occurs when you’ve witnessed a crime you could do nothing to stop. "

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 19 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[jumpingkaede]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

It doesn't matter how the mass-relays blow up. blowing up is blowing up. There is no way Earth or any other planet near a relay could survive that.

You're just making that up.  You pull statements of fact like that out of your ass, then demand to know why they weren't addressed.

Is it pulled out of his ass if it was established in Arrival?

I may hae to play it again, but I'm pretty sure Arrival established that a Mass Relay going BOOM = star system wiped out.  Otherwise, why the big rush to warn the Batarians?  

Because you're told that it if it explodes it's going to wipe out the star system.

I therefore assumed, though it wasn't confirmed, that it happened before i.e., a Mass Relay had exploded before.

CaptainZayash:  

I await your list of reasons that Joker and the Normandy would've been fleeing Earth prior to the Crucible firing.  Or, if that is too argumentative, your list of the reasons that Joker and  the Normandy would've been retreating.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 19 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

sadako wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

An asteroid that was a converted mining faciltiy would increase the size and yield of the blast signifigantly; and it was only suggested by someone who wasn't certain that any relay explosion would destroy an entire system. Please note that the relay destructions were self-destruct; not a considerable mass increase because of a large asteroid.

Considering that an atomic blast. Most of the damage is due to the shock wave, while the maximum damage at ground zero is substantial, the shock wave is perhaps the most damaging.

Considering the shockwave of the explosion could be seen at the galactic level and enough to push away those huge relay rings (in the FMV)

I'm sure there's minimal damage. SERIOUS.

The galaxy map view was pure artisitc license to show the effect galaxy wide.
http://en.wikipedia....rtistic_license

[Cloaking_Thane]

garf wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I would just like one answer from OP.

Why would the ME Relays being destroyed be a good thing or something you loved?

Not the OP but I thought it opened the door for the series to go in a wildly different direction from that point on. The galaxy now needs to think for themselves; and if people are as all about choice as they say they are then that is 1000 times better than just using the tech that the Reapers built.

The galaxy is freed of the Reapers in every respect; and while losing the relays looks bad in the short-term; they are certainly not the be-all, end-all of space travel theory and the next story (Mass Effect 4 hopefully) can reflect that freedom.

I'll disagree because MER's were FTL travel, it was only that that allowed the Alliance to get out of the Sol system if I'm understanding the lore correctly.

The story of "ME4" and rebuilding or 50K years into the future....I dont know... I just disagree that it was a good thing.

I could explain more once I gather my thoughts....just recently finished

Actually you misunderstand the lore. FTL travel is available to all races. Any ship with an 'Eezo core' can effectively play games with it's mass and defy the twin equations of Energy Equals Mass times Velocity Squared and Energy Equals Mass times the speed of light squared.

However FTL travel has limitations. What would be day trips with the Mass Relays now are year and decade long journeys.

Also there's a limit to fuel bunkerage and heat disapation. FTL has a firm range limit  based primarly on how far ships can travel before they cook their crews (this is all in the codices)

Citadel space is like loose beads representing the tiny bubbles of FTL accessable space around a given Mass Relay tied in a net by the long strings of the jumps relays provide.

Loss of the relays doesn't necessarily 'destroy' the universe. It does However inflict a phase chagne or paradigm shift in the galaxy so fundamental that any future work would be effectively a new IP co opting the Mass Effect Name.

This is why I say in my tag-line that the ending offers

No Future.

Thank you for the explanation, I agree the future is bleak and the ending sewed the seeds for a new IP in essence if not name.

[sadako]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

DentedHalo wrote...

in all fairness its very diifcult to argue with someone who just casually says that the galactic community will just need to get to work on building their own relays... you know... as if that was an even remote possibility this side of a century... especially without relays to allow colaboration between star systems!  how can you argue with such logic... seriously...

Seriously, this is simply you wanting a happier ending.  I honestly think the majority of the fan rage here is rooted in this.

You're right, I want ice cream reapers!. They were building up on it, Taking back earth! It must be done!

Then you realise it's about "The Legend Of Shepard" told by grandpa bioware.

I too didn't think about the destruction of the relays until I realized I just destroyed earth in the process.