459 réponses à ce sujet

[DashRunner92]

Read the google document that points out all the plot holes and your mind will change very quickly

[Genera1Nemesis]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

And you're obviously a top bloke with a winning personality.

Childish insults won't get you very far in life.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Like what plot holes?

Are you serious that you didn't notice the many many many plotholes yourself when you watched the horrible ending of ME3 unravel?

To list a few plot-holes (there are only a few examples of a much longer list):

1. The Star Child's logic: Using synthetics to spread despair and commit genocide on organics so we organics won't be killed by our own synthetics.

2. The Normandy: What the f*ck whas Joker doing? Wasn't he supposed to be leading the fleets against the reapers? Is Joker a coward?

3. Shepard's Squad: Your entire crew was on earth fighting the good fight. Then in the end they all seem to be teleported to the Normandy. How is this possible? Did Joker pick them up in the middle of the battle?

4. Shepard's Squad 2: Your entire crew was aboard the fleeing Normandy. Do you honestly believe your crew would ever abandon Shepard? 

5. Love Interrest: Same as above. Do you honestly think he/she would ever abandon Shepard?

6. Zombie Squad Members: The 2 squad members you take with you on the final run towards the beacon get shot by Harbinger. They're either horribly wounded or you see them die (depending on your EMS). Yet the same 2 squad members appear to be on the Normandy in the epilogue. They're alive and completely unharmed! Are they Jesus 2.0 and Jesus 3.0?

7. Shepard is Alive... in London?: It's possible to get a Shepard alive scene in the ending. But how can Shepard possible survive the exploding Citadel? At one point Shepard is on the Citadel, then the Citadel explodes and in the next scene Shepard is alive.. in London!? How is that possible?

8. Exploding relays: If you have played the Arrival DLC, you should know what an exploding relay does to a solar system. How come planet Earth is unharmed in the ending of ME3 (if our EMS is high enough). And again, how can Shepard survive this?

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think there was a variety in the endings.  Sure the very last scenes were similar, but Luke was always going to destroy the Death Star.  The way I got there was very different from yours, and the final choice I made - the one with enormous social repercussions - was likely different from yours.

This is not about the journey, this is about the end.

Yes, the journey was great, but the ending sucked. We all got railroaded into the same endings. The choices you make in the end (red, blue, green) are trivial and we don't even get to see the outcome and consequences of our decisions and ending (except for Joker looking like a cyborg in the green synthesis ending).

The endings would be less horrible if we actually get to see how the galaxy is doing after our ending. But we're completely left in the dark. We can only speculate how thinks worked out after the huge Deus Ex Machina ending (Deus Ex Machina endings are per definition bad). Lots of speculation for everyone!  Yeah... wooptie-doo... what a joy... <_<

CaptainZaysh wrote...

You mean subjectively.  You're allowed not to like them.  Calling somebody ignorant because they don't like them is pretty unpleasant behaviour.

No, I mean OBJECTIVELY. An ending with so many plot-holes is objectively bad.

And yes, you're ignorant. You're not ignorant for not liking the endings. You're completely ignorant about the many plot-holes that made this ending objectively a horrible mess.

1. Reapers are organic hiveminds in synthetic out shells. That's an oversimplified argument right there.


http://en.wikipedia....cal_singularity - what catalyst is trying to defend against.

2. There is a very short clip when the crucible is building up it's power that shows nearly ships being pulled towards it like a black-hole as it were. This does not explain the crew being there; and it was poorly cut/ edited; but Joker may have ran to avoid this fate. (I agree this is hazy at best but it's the only explanation from the actual scenes themselves I can come up with)

3. See number 2. This is the only big plot-hole I agree with.

4. See number 2

5. See number 2

6. see number 2

7. Watch the scene when Shep destroys the 'tubing' or whatever. Note how it explodes around him. Now pay attention to the colour pallette of the structure around that tubing. look familiar?

8. An asteroid that was a converted mining faciltiy would increase the size and yield of the blast signifigantly; and it was only suggested by someone who wasn't certain that any relay explosion would destroy an entire system. Please note that the relay destructions were self-destruct; not a considerable mass increase because of a large asteroid.

The representation on the galaxy map is artistic license to simply show us that this was happening galaxy wide, and not indicative of 'destroying' every solar system.

"****** poor" I know but I'll put it up just in case someone can at least see the points without outright dismissal.

[Russalka]

Why are people who happen to like the endings met with such ire? Hostility does not help anyone.

[ergonomalous]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

ergonomalous wrote...

This ending is based on speculation. My speculations can be as negetive as i want. i may disgree with your optimism but i cant say for sure you are wrong without proof.

are you intentionally trying to be abrasive?

You might be right in your pessimism: but that would be if you just ignore the old man and kid scene at the end...otherwise how would they still be alive in this 'bleak' future?

it looks like the planet the normandy crashed on. It's the fate of one planet as opposed to the whole galaxy.

[Vigil_N7]

The ending itself is okay if taken by its own, however, it is NOT a Mass Effect ending, nor is it anyway to end a TRILOGY.

The game deserved a better ending, however it betrayed the overall theme of conquering all odds, which is central to the Mass Effect plot. All they needed was a paragon/renegade interrupt with shepard telling spacechild to effectively ****** off,

[Genera1Nemesis]

ergonomalous wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

ergonomalous wrote...

This ending is based on speculation. My speculations can be as negetive as i want. i may disgree with your optimism but i cant say for sure you are wrong without proof.

are you intentionally trying to be abrasive?

You might be right in your pessimism: but that would be if you just ignore the old man and kid scene at the end...otherwise how would they still be alive in this 'bleak' future?

it looks like the planet the normandy crashed on. It's the fate of one planet as opposed to the whole galaxy.

I agree that it is, the two planets in the background are pretty much the same; difference being day and night.

I am just using this as an example of hopeful future; not the complete eradication of it as some have suggested.

[AzaZeLgaming]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

AzaZeLgaming wrote...
Again, there is no mention about HOW, but WHEN. Based on THE ONLY EVIDENCE we have

Right there is the problem.  Not enough evidence.  It's been done once, by throwing a pla...asteroid into it.  Just like nukes can "fizzle" if they detonate in the wrong way, maybe relays can be destroyed in a non-catastrophic way by sending an energy pulse from the central point of the network.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy released from the Relay is destroying everything near it.
There is no evidence that the network destruction caused no energy release.
There is the only evidence we've got - a massive shockwaves after explosions we see in the galactic map.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is dead.

The energy released from an exploding relay core is destructive. Period. It is destructive in Arrival, it is also destructive in ME3.

Modifié par AzaZeLgaming, 19 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Keletian2]

I'm just gonna go ahead and disagree. Though I'm interested in hearing what you found though provoking.
For me it was the obvious repercussions of stranding hundreds of planets without adequate resources; especially ones ravaged by the reapers..IE earth...and the massive fleet that you cant feed on a planet that's on fire.
Or..the Quariens being another obvious example
And the Turians that have a specialized diet.

[CaptainZaysh]

ergonomalous wrote...

it looks like the planet the normandy crashed on. It's the fate of one planet as opposed to the whole galaxy.

I'm not sure it did!  I only saw it once, but the Normandy seemed to have crashed in a jungle.  The old man and the kid seemed to be in a deciduous zone.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Keletian2 wrote...

I'm just gonna go ahead and disagree. Though I'm interested in hearing what you found though provoking.
For me it was the obvious repercussions of stranding hundreds of planets without adequate resources; especially ones ravaged by the reapers..IE earth...and the massive fleet that you cant feed on a planet that's on fire.
Or..the Quariens being another obvious example
And the Turians that have a specialized diet.

To be honest it's hard to say what we thought was thought provoking without being insulted or labeled by the masses who disagree with it no matter what is said.

[CaptainZaysh]

Luc0s wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

So nyah nyah nyah to you.

God you're so childish. Why am I even arguing with you?

Pfffft, higher IQ my ass.

Well, Lucos, I guess I couldn't think of a better rejoinder than your airy dismissal of his point by point address to your list as "****** poor".

[Uzumaki15]

Op if you're so well informed enlighten me on how the entire force in the Sol system isn't doomed by the destruction of the mass relays? Supplies don't last forever, Earth's resources are pretty much gone, not to mention most of the planet's been leveled.

And it'd be impossible for the ships to reach another system, as Kenson points out at FTL speeds it would take months, years, or decades to reach another system, not to mention that the fuel of any one ship wouldn't last long enough for such a travel. Then you have the heat build up from a FTL/MEC which would need to be vented regularly. So how does that not condemn the entire fleet you brought, to starvation/war/extinction?

[CaptainZaysh]

AzaZeLgaming wrote...

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion 

You're just repeating your argument, and it still has the same problem.

[crimsontotem]

Dude we can't change a person, one must change within oneself, why so many bickering? Also haven't you guys realized? "one and only Shepard". A casual player.

[Gravbh]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Read the google document that points out all the plot holes and your mind will change very quickly

That document had just as many holes in it's logic as it claims the game had.

[CaptainZaysh]

Luc0s wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

ergonomalous wrote...

it looks like the planet the normandy crashed on. It's the fate of one planet as opposed to the whole galaxy.

I'm not sure it did!  I only saw it once, but the Normandy seemed to have crashed in a jungle.  The old man and the kid seemed to be in a deciduous zone.

Heaven forbid planets having multiple climates.

It's pretty obvious that the Stargazer scene is on the same planet as the Normandy crashed on. But again, this is all based on mere speculation. We don't get clear answers. The entire ending is 1 big f*cking mystery. We don't get answers, we are only left with tons and tons of questions, most of those questions cannot be answered because the questions sprung from massive plot-holes.

****** poor.

[Shaigunjoe]

I absoulutly loved the ending as well, though for different reasons. After watching it I felt like the ending was udder crap at face value, and I started to think why did everything go to hell plot wise after you are hit by harbinger's beam. Then it hit me, the stargazer, he is telling the story, and nobody who lived was with shepard in the citadel, therefore, nobody knows what happens (I think this is why it was important to show certain squad members survived to carry pass down Shep's story, or it was recorded in Li'ara's box).

So I think thats brilliant, sneaking in a little unreliable narration into the end, though I dont' think they will keep it that way, thats why 'the truth' is the next dlc. Bioware has used the unreliable narrator before, in the beginning of DA2 for example.  Though the dwarf's reasons for being unreliable are probably different than the SG.

Now replay the game again, but for each major choice you make, rather than its immediate rammifications, consider how that would be interpreted in far future generations as religous doctrine. It provides a whole new prospective to the trilogy.

So Keletian2, that is what I found thought provoking.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 19 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Luc0s wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

ergonomalous wrote...

it looks like the planet the normandy crashed on. It's the fate of one planet as opposed to the whole galaxy.

I'm not sure it did!  I only saw it once, but the Normandy seemed to have crashed in a jungle.  The old man and the kid seemed to be in a deciduous zone.

Heaven forbid planets having multiple climates.

It's pretty obvious that the Stargazer scene is on the same planet as the Normandy crashed on. But again, this is all based on mere speculation. We don't get clear answers. The entire ending is 1 big f*cking mystery. We don't get answers, we are only left with tons and tons of questions, most of those questions cannot be answered because the questions sprung from massive plot-holes.

****** poor.

Childish.

You started it.

[Andur4]

Well your entitled to your opinion, I can respect that. And I respectfully disagree. That is all.

[Oryonn]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I absoulutly loved the ending as well, though for different reasons. After watching it I felt like the ending was udder crap at face value, and I started to think why did everything go to hell plot wise after you are hit by harbinger's beam. Then it hit me, the stargazer, he is telling the story, and nobody who lived was with shepard in the citadel, therefore, nobody knows what happens (I think this is why it was important to show certain squad members survived to carry pass down Shep's story, or it was recorded in Li'ara's box).

So I think thats brilliant, sneaking in a little unreliable narration into the end, though I dont' think they will keep it that way, thats why 'the truth' is the next dlc. Bioware has used the unreliable narrator before, in the beginning of DA2 for example.  Though the dwarf's reasons for being unreliable are probably different than the SG.

Now replay the game again, but for each major choice you make, rather than its immediate rammifications, consider how that would be interpreted in far future generations as religous doctrine. It provides a whole new prospective to the trilogy.

So Keletian2, that is what I found thought provoking.

You have gone to the dark side.

You will now start to over-analyze everything and find deeper meaning even in the poop that didn't flush all the way.