459 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

Thanks for more questions then answers? Really?

[Genera1Nemesis]

FOX216BC wrote...

 You love the ending, i don't have a problem with that.
My problem is Bioware didn't deliver what promised.

http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/


http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

I want to ask, in all seriousness; were these comments made before or after they changed the ending already? I am really curious, because if it was after then there is an issue; if it was before than they may not have had dev time to do what they intended.

BTW I've written two unpublished novels; and I found that the vision you start with is usually vastly different than the one you end up with. Not defending their promises (you should never make promises on work in progress) but just saying I understand that aspect of what may have happened in the time that these comments were made.

[Cmawty]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Uzumaki15 wrote...

Op if you're so well informed enlighten me on how the entire force in the Sol system isn't doomed by the destruction of the mass relays? Supplies don't last forever, Earth's resources are pretty much gone, not to mention most of the planet's been leveled.

That's an excellent question.  I wonder how we/they'd cope?  Especially the dextros!  I read about the technology required to clone meat as a possible solution, so the ending has at least encouraged me to learn a bit more about bioscience.  I just find the whole setup fascinating, and I will enjoy speculating about it with the other fans in the future.

Uzumaki15 wrote...
And it'd be impossible for the ships to reach another system, as Kenson points out at FTL speeds it would take months, years, or decades to reach another system, not to mention that the fuel of any one ship wouldn't last long enough for such a travel. Then you have the heat build up from a FTL/MEC which would need to be vented regularly. So how does that not condemn the entire fleet you brought, to starvation/war/extinction?

Again, interesting question, looking forward to discussing it on the forums soon.

I respect OP's opinion that the ending was satisfying of course, and I'm beginning to find his post-playthrough fascinations, well....fascinating.

Cloned meat and bioscience now...interesting branches this tree doth sprout! 

[Uzumaki15]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Uzumaki15 wrote...

Op if you're so well informed enlighten me on how the entire force in the Sol system isn't doomed by the destruction of the mass relays? Supplies don't last forever, Earth's resources are pretty much gone, not to mention most of the planet's been leveled.

And it'd be impossible for the ships to reach another system, as Kenson points out at FTL speeds it would take months, years, or decades to reach another system, not to mention that the fuel of any one ship wouldn't last long enough for such a travel. Then you have the heat build up from a FTL/MEC which would need to be vented regularly. So how does that not condemn the entire fleet you brought, to starvation/war/extinction?

So let me get this straight; for most ending haters there should be no room for speculation....but a lot of them are speculating that its nothing but 'doom and gloom' and that nothing good came of getting rid of reapers and their tech? .In fact the galaxy is now free to develop how they were meant to develop; without the convenience of technology that was meant to be used against them the entire time.

I guess they'd rather the Reapers won? or prefer that we just keep being pigeon-holed into using technology we never fully understood just so that they can 'quickly' go buy ice-cream at the Citadel?

Transition is tough; I would estimate that millions would die until a solution was found. I still find that better than the infinite number of lives the Reapers would have taken had they been allowed to continue their relentless cycle.

As a wise man once said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Again this is just my opinion, and that means hog-wash to most people on here right now, lol.

That's why we want a definitive ending, one that BW repeatedly said was going to occur on that closed the book on the trilogy, not to leave us speculating on the plot holes they left.

Such as the one I mentioned, they don't explain what happened to your squad, why Joker's leaving the battle, why we are just accepting the Catalyst's logic, why they damned the entire fleet you brought to save the galaxy, how (in synthesis, and control) the reapers return to darkspace with the citidel relay(the one linking to dark space) destroyed, and all other relays are gone, meaning they have to travel for decades/centuries to actually leave the galaxy.

And to your point about developing natrually how? It's assumed the tech is still there, fragments of the old society still remains we can assume the Turian's, Asari, and everyother race aside from human would simply rebuild the old society.

[shamE12]

For the love of god someone lock this thread

[winniethepuh]

http://www.computera...vitable/?page=1

Sums it up really well.

[CaptainZaysh]

Cmawty wrote...

I respect OP's opinion that the ending was satisfying of course, and I'm beginning to find his post-playthrough fascinations, well....fascinating.

Cloned meat and bioscience now...interesting branches this tree doth sprout! 

Exactly.  If the quarian fleet had liveships with it, they and the turians stuck on Earth might have a chance!

[Genera1Nemesis]

Uzumaki15 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Uzumaki15 wrote...

Op if you're so well informed enlighten me on how the entire force in the Sol system isn't doomed by the destruction of the mass relays? Supplies don't last forever, Earth's resources are pretty much gone, not to mention most of the planet's been leveled.

And it'd be impossible for the ships to reach another system, as Kenson points out at FTL speeds it would take months, years, or decades to reach another system, not to mention that the fuel of any one ship wouldn't last long enough for such a travel. Then you have the heat build up from a FTL/MEC which would need to be vented regularly. So how does that not condemn the entire fleet you brought, to starvation/war/extinction?

So let me get this straight; for most ending haters there should be no room for speculation....but a lot of them are speculating that its nothing but 'doom and gloom' and that nothing good came of getting rid of reapers and their tech? .In fact the galaxy is now free to develop how they were meant to develop; without the convenience of technology that was meant to be used against them the entire time.

I guess they'd rather the Reapers won? or prefer that we just keep being pigeon-holed into using technology we never fully understood just so that they can 'quickly' go buy ice-cream at the Citadel?

Transition is tough; I would estimate that millions would die until a solution was found. I still find that better than the infinite number of lives the Reapers would have taken had they been allowed to continue their relentless cycle.

As a wise man once said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Again this is just my opinion, and that means hog-wash to most people on here right now, lol.

That's why we want a definitive ending, one that BW repeatedly said was going to occur on that closed the book on the trilogy, not to leave us speculating on the plot holes they left.

Such as the one I mentioned, they don't explain what happened to your squad, why Joker's leaving the battle, why we are just accepting the Catalyst's logic, why they damned the entire fleet you brought to save the galaxy, how (in synthesis, and control) the reapers return to darkspace with the citidel relay(the one linking to dark space) destroyed, and all other relays are gone, meaning they have to travel for decades/centuries to actually leave the galaxy.

And to your point about developing natrually how? It's assumed the tech is still there, fragments of the old society still remains we can assume the Turian's, Asari, and everyother race aside from human would simply rebuild the old society.

What I mean by naturally is develop away from the Reaper tech that was used as a weapon against them; should they so choose.

That is to say that I have no idea if this will be a signifigant aspect of the future games (Mass Effect 4 and on) and they may just rebuild the relays and such. That is why I think they ended it how they did; so we wouldn't know for sure. That way they can take it in any direction they want and still give us plenty of surprises along the way, while still keeping the decisions we made as Shep intact (future of Krogan sans Genophage or maybe they are extinct because you tricked them)

[Shared]

nikola8 wrote...

The OP is right- the complaints against the ending are as subjective as the reasons to like it. This ISN"T a cut and dry debate, as much as those on either side believe that there is only one right answer.

And I personally agree with the OP, the ending was very good and was the perfect culmination to the series.

No matter your opinion or anyones opinion really, there is 3 gaping objectivly horrific things about the ending (besides texture reusage). Shepard survives reentry. Party members teleport to the normandy and you walking upside down (the whole ****ing room is upside down with reveresd gravity) when you teleport to the citadel.

[Velesfray]

If the end result is the SAME (which it was for colorblind people lol) choices do not matter.

The ending was awesome up until the point you figure out that apart from all random events and terrible conclusion [story] (objectively) the whole thing was filled with so much cliches it might as well have been a parody.

The character dies in the greatest sacrifice (popular trend in fiction, very predictable). A hope for the future with an Adam and Eve scene, which has sadly been used over and over again for 2000 years (It's gotten old). Oh and lets no forget the conclusive summary at the end (the child model looked like a badly re-sized adult model gg)

While I didn't HATE the ending personally, it was in no way a worthy ending.

Oh and the most cliche thing in the whole ending was that the whole thing was about Humans. Because the game wasn't about unifying the galaxy...but about making humans look bad-ass. Hmmm where have we seen this before.

[Kyrick]

winniethepuh wrote...

http://www.computera...vitable/?page=1

Sums it up really well.

Yup.  Sums up precisely everything that the movement to remake the endings is not about.  Another clueless reviewer being contrary just for the purpose of being contrary.  I state again: if you actually feel that then ending to Mass Effect was mechanically well constructed in any way, shape, or form, then you have zero understanding of how to tell a good story.  This is not about it being an unhappy ending.

There are plenty of well told stories that end on a depressing note.  That's not the issue to determining if they're well constructed endings or not.  When you introduce more plot holes and do not answer the main questions you've invoked in the series (amonst numerous other flaws), that is a poorly constructed ending.  Have Shepard die.  Who cares.  If it fits in the story then it's absolutely effective and fitting.  Having Shepard ending his story (dying or living) by being presented with a deus ex machina (in the form of an actual god out of the machine no less!) and utterly negating his entire personality and story to that point is not 'well done' or 'a good ending'.  It is lazy, phoned in rubbish that was hastily constructed and should be roundly scorned.

I'm happy if some people can take joy out of that ending.  I can't.  I know far too much about the elements that a story is supposed to contain to be satisfied with the ending as it is now.  Anybody who understands literature and narrative at all can easily spot numerous issues with the ending as it is now.  Even people with little 'training' (for lack of a better word) in formal literature theory and writing realize that something is amiss when they watch the endings to this game.  If somebody can't, that's not my problem.  Wander off into the sunset whistling about how glorious the ending was and how it tied things up.  It didn't, but nobody is going to convince you or anybody who believes this of anything.  The ignorant rarely understand that they are so and thus refuse to alter their non-thought (if this weren't so, presumably there would be far fewer ignorant people around for every subject conceivable).

Those of us who actually understand the thing will continue to point out the numerous problems with it and hopefully manage to get it altered for the benefit of everybody.  If you don't want to see it changed, then don't buy it if it actually happens. 

[PleaOfInsanity]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

PleaOfInsanity wrote...

Now from material not cut from ME2 in the collectors base their is a nice long conversation about how the Protheans aren't even a shell of their former selves. Indivisual thought erased, they had become cybernetic drones of a "beehive" its queen being Harbringer...

Yeah, but they specifically weren't ascended to Reaperhood.

There is no evidence what so ever that confirms any species ever has ascended to reaperhood. All we ever see is species descended into being a husk or the species equal.

[CaptainZaysh]

Kyrick wrote...

Yup.  Sums up precisely everything that the movement to remake the endings is not about.  Another clueless reviewer being contrary just for the purpose of being contrary.  I state again: if you actually feel that then ending to Mass Effect was mechanically well constructed in any way, shape, or form, then you have zero understanding of how to tell a good story.  This is not about it being an unhappy ending.

Well, I've never had anything seriously published, so I'm certainly not an expert.  I would like you to support that statement, though, because as of right now I think you are talking rubbish.

[Wowlock]

''I guess what impressed and surprised me the most is how thought-provoking the ending was''

I stopped there...

You have your opinion and I respect that...but people wanted Closure for the LAST GAME of the trilogy....not some crappy cliffhanger type ending.

And as a basic response to this '' If I would've Imagine the damn endings, I wouldn't buy the damn game '' ...

Simple logic.

[CaptainZaysh]

PleaOfInsanity wrote...

There is no evidence what so ever that confirms any species ever has ascended to reaperhood. All we ever see is species descended into being a husk or the species equal.

Human Reaper.

[CaptainZaysh]

Wowlock wrote...

''I guess what impressed and surprised me the most is how thought-provoking the ending was''

I stopped there...

You have your opinion and I respect that...

I stopped there.  Thanks!

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 19 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[TekFanX]

I respect it if anyone is happy with the endings.
And I'm happy for you too.

But for me they are terrible:
#Plot-Holes:
-Joker suddenly flees from combat without any reason given, as that it would fit to the character.
-Whole Sword-fleet vanishes, not even enough debris around earth to say the reapers killed them.
#Galaxy united as allies, but:
-Some of the people onboard the stranded Normandy are going to starve, basing on what dna is present in the eco-system of the planet.
-Biggest fleet ever(if not destroyed) stranded in sol with a devastated earth that can't provide enough food for them in time(not to mention the poor dextro-aminos).
-Mass Relays suddenly explode and no one except humans will see their homeplanet again(unlikely that they can store enough resources on a military vessel to survive the long flight with normal ftl)(I wouldn't mind the Mass Relays to be destroyed, but they could just decay in months, so some preparations could be made before the races are isolated).
#Star-child:
-Suddenly the starchild appears and Shepard goes "Oh well, creator of the reapers, I've never seen before. If you promise this and that will happen, I'm gonna believe you and sacrifice my life."
#Harbinger-dump:
-This reaper made me shiver in ME2...now it's reduced to a big defense-turret for the conduit.
#No feeling of closure(for me):
-Yes, Shepard can unite so many races in the galaxy and some of them are given some kind of closure, but this happens before the final fight with the reapers that's going to end Shepards trilogy.
The turning-point of the galaxy's fate is this battle and there is no info on what happens to them during or directly after that fight.

Honestly, I'm happy for everyone who likes the endings, but I don't share your point of view.

Modifié par TekFanX, 19 mars 2012 - 08:57 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Personally i hate the endings thanks BW.

[VonVerrikan]

Thankfully your opinion is in the minority. It's fine if Enigmas like you exist, of course. I'm just glad there aren't more of you. 

Of course you could also be Astroturfing, which does make sense given your OP and how cliche you make it sound.

[Gruzmog]

I think that if you only have one character and take the ending at face value it can be ok. You would have to not be bothered by the plotholes, (catalyst is the citadel? why did he not open the citadel relay ib ME1 then, teleporting crewmembers, organics versus synthetics being the main issue etc.)

But most of us have a wide variety of characters, all with different ideals, worldviews, personalities and backgrounds. We were told our choises would matter and that the endings would differ more then ABC. It did not. period. So for anyone who expected to enjoy the game with that depth in mind, the game ending is objectivly bad.

It's ok that you like it, and it can be fun to speculate about a universe without relays. But they could have done that in a proper way aswell whereby they did not ****** off a wild variety of people. Its actually quite an accomplishment that they managed to ****** off so many people for such a variety of reasons. People who:

- Wanted the ending to fit the lore.
- Wanted closure for their character and crew
- Wanted their choises reflected for their Shepard
- Who expected that a different shepard (background, choises, views) would result in a different ending
- Who expected a happy ending
- Who cant live with plotholes
- Who wanted and ending in line with the theme of the series
- Who did not want a deux ex machina (or diablo ex machina)

Great that you don't fit in any of these groups. And the ending could have provided food for thought, but it was so badly executed it failed to make that possible for most people.

I wish I was you though

[slimshedim]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

No, I'm the only one NOT making anything up. It's you who's going the giant leaps of fate to justify these crazy plotholes in this ending.

The ME2 Arrival DLC pretty much confirmed that a mass-relay blowing up = star system wiped out.

No, it didn't.  It confirmed that ramming a mass relay with a planetoid will cause a very large explosion.  It confirmed nothing about destroying them via an energy pulse sent out from the control unit of the network.

That's sounds just like smashing a nuclear power plant by throwing a giant asteroid on it might cause a very large explosion, but blowing it up with some sort of red/blue/green beam of space magic might leave it unharmed. Geez, thats....genius! How comes noone else came up with that before?

10 bucks it's Shepard's essence of pure paragonism that keeps the mass relays from unleashing destruction on a supernova scale, since Humans always try to save everyone and his dog. I mean, it's not comfirmed what happens if people merge with blue or green colored space magic laz0rs. But wait, what happens if you don't pick synthesis or control. Shepard doesn't jump right in the beam, then. Well, then maybe it's because of Garrus. i mean he was calibrating 24/7, maybe he secretly calibrated the mass relays via space magic Bluetooth, so they won't blow up in case some naughty child decides to play with one of those things, some day.

Garrus, calibratin' savior of the galaxy. They certainly will make a Turian statue right next to the Krogan one on the Citadel, now.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

PleaOfInsanity wrote...

There
is no evidence what so ever that confirms any species ever has ascended
to reaperhood. All we ever see is species descended into being a husk
or the species equal.

Human Reaper.

Oh yeah. That's genius again. Humanity is the predominant species in the galaxy, as it always is in games/movies/novels created by humans. So, how comes the galactical newcomers are turned into a reaper, while all the other, more advanced species don't get processed into a reaper?

I'll give you a hint: You can only explain this, if you stick to the Dark Energy theme, that got scrapped in order to bless YOU, yes solely YOU, with this marvellous ending so you can bless us with this thread and complete disregard of logic and common sense.

Modifié par slimshedim, 19 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Gruzmog wrote...

I think that if you only have one character and take the ending at face value it can be ok. You would have to not be bothered by the plotholes, (catalyst is the citadel? why did he not open the citadel relay ib ME1 then,

Because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel.

Gruzmog wrote...
teleporting crewmembers,

Yeah, covered in my OP.

Gruzmog wrote...
organics versus synthetics being the main issue etc.)

It's the main issue for the Reapers, but you can't be annoyed that they're invading for reasons you dislike, right?

Gruzmog wrote...
But most of us have a wide variety of characters, all with different ideals, worldviews, personalities and backgrounds. We were told our choises would matter and that the endings would differ more then ABC.

I agree that the very final cutscene lacks variety.  But surely your Paragon Shep and Renegade Shep will have wildly different ways of getting to the last one minute of the game?

[CaptainZaysh]

VonVerrikan wrote...

Of course you could also be Astroturfing, which does make sense given your OP and how cliche you make it sound.

I was being genuine.  Thanks for sneeringly dismissing my thoughts.

[CaptainZaysh]

Luc0s wrote...

I don't know about you, but in my playthrough the quarians and geth resolved their issues and now worked together as one to defeat the reapers. That's just... beautiful... isn't it? But the damn child doesn't wanna see it! Stupid Star Child. <_<

Stupid Shepard, more like.  Just because they're friendly now doesn't mean they will always be friendly.