459 réponses à ce sujet

[PleaOfInsanity]

Troubleshooter11 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

SlyTF1 wrote...

I don't see how you can like something that contradicts itself in the same second. The "Star Child" created synthetics to kill organics so that other synthetics wouldn't kill them.

They're not just killing them, though.  They convert them into Reapers, into gods.  Then they reset the galaxy so new forms of organic life can rise.  Without them, many people believe a technological singularity is inevitable.

Their genepool lives on, but their free will, their consiousness, it's gone, dead, turned to grey paste and stuffed into a Reaper shell.

Reapers kill trillions and use their combined genepool to build a synthetic/organic AI in the form of a space ship. Nothing remains of those individuals and their lives, for all intents and purposes they are dead, their civilization is dead, their art and legacy gone. And the Reapers just use them as building blocks for their own numbers.

And Reapers arent gods, or even godlike, not when 3-4 dreadnaughts can shove pieces of metal through your shipform and kill you.

Unless you consider your DNA to be the only thing you really are. I'd like to think we are more than just genetics, as Shepard pointed out to Miranda in ME2.

I really wouldn't consider the genepool living on, but more like being held in statis for all eternity. The progession of each species is halted and an image of their overall genetic material is gathered and stored as "part" of the reapers.

[ericjdev]

Not just any handgun, but a magic one with infinite ammo, very thoughtful.

[Vasparian]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

SlyTF1 wrote...

I don't see how you can like something that contradicts itself in the same second. The "Star Child" created synthetics to kill organics so that other synthetics wouldn't kill them.

They're not just killing them, though.  They convert them into Reapers, into gods.  Then they reset the galaxy so new forms of organic life can rise.  Without them, many people believe a technological singularity is inevitable.

SlyTF1 wrote...
The mass relays exploded, and if they explode, they destroy the entire system. Yet there was still a random planet the Normany crashed on.

My take was that crashing an asteroid into it is different from what the Crucible did.

Nope sorry. They are killing them. They do not convert them into reapers. They do not do it so new forms of organic life can rise. Sorry but did you even pay attention? They do it so synthetics won't take over. Learn to listen to game.

[slimshedim]

Joolazoo wrote...

....you are just plain wrong...it is objectively bad...please notice all the plotholes.

Some people obviously either lack the intelligence required to notice plotholes, completely ignore them or fill them with their own imagination. I hope the OP is one of the latter.

[CaptainZaysh]

PleaOfInsanity wrote...

Excuse me they converted them into gods? I do not see how the Protheans became gods they were made into empty husk. From my point of view the evidence throughout the series shows that the Reapers "absorbing" other races is turning them into a synthetic husk of their formerself.

Did you see that bit of cut text from ME2?  ("It was lonely.  It called to us.")  One of Legion's comments adds weight to it, too, the idea that people can somehow survive the Reaperification process and have some kind of existence within the machine.


http://social.biowar...index/8188367/5

[rvgifford]

Disagree. Glad you enjoyed. Wish I did. Too many broken promises.

http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

[Tyrf]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
I guess what impressed and surprised me the most is how thought-provoking the ending was.  I'm left wondering what galactic society will look like when we make it back out to the stars again.

It SURPRISED you that the ending was thought-provoking?
I'll be honest, it surprised me how... un...thought-provoking it was...

There were no deep philosphical questions. All of the questions were more logistical.

Compare this to the decision to save the Geth or the Quarians (or both!)
Compare to the decision to cure the Genophage (and the ethics of the Genophage itself...)
Compare to the history of the Geth uprising

They aren't even in the same galaxy in terms of scope.

Modifié par Tyrf, 19 mars 2012 - 05:40 .

[AttaBoyTroy]

FRancium wrote...

don't attack people that liked the ending, people.
They are entitled to their opinion, just as we are to ours.

In the end I would argue more people still hated it, and Bioware changing the ending in some way won't affect OP at all.

I like you, this is pretty reasonable.

[Genera1Nemesis]

slimshedim wrote...

Joolazoo wrote...

....you are just plain wrong...it is objectively bad...please notice all the plotholes.

Some people obviously either lack the intelligence required to notice plotholes, completely ignore them or fill them with their own imagination. I hope the OP is one of the latter.

Obviously, because you know, he didn't question the Normandy thing in his  original post at all.

[CaptainZaysh]

slimshedim wrote...

Some people obviously either lack the intelligence required to notice plotholes, completely ignore them or fill them with their own imagination. I hope the OP is one of the latter.

Well, statistically speaking my IQ is likely to be higher than yours, random stranger.  If you ever want to have some kind of spelling contest or something to settle it once and for all just let me know.  

[Myrmedus]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

PleaOfInsanity wrote...

Excuse me they converted them into gods? I do not see how the Protheans became gods they were made into empty husk. From my point of view the evidence throughout the series shows that the Reapers "absorbing" other races is turning them into a synthetic husk of their formerself.

Did you see that bit of cut text from ME2?  ("It was lonely.  It called to us.")  One of Legion's comments adds weight to it, too, the idea that people can somehow survive the Reaperification process and have some kind of existence within the machine.


http://social.biowar...index/8188367/5

Who cares? We shouldn't even need to be here arguing over this.

This whole set of arguments is borne from the fact one abstract ending was shoved down all of our throats. Of course some people are going to enjoy it, just as some people enjoy getting burnt by molten wax or whipped, but the point is that ME has a varied fanbase so the endings should've been...VARIED!

Modifié par Myrmedus, 19 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Sereaph502]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
I guess what impressed and surprised me the most is how thought-provoking the ending was.  I'm left wondering what galactic society will look like when we make it back out to the stars again.

You do realize there's a difference between a good thought provoking ending and a bad thought provoking ending, right?  A game can provide closure and still provoke thought, or a game can not provide closure and the thought process then tries to make sense of what just happened.

A game with an ending that provides closure and still provokes thought is a good ending.  An ending like this where the only thoughts are "what the heck?" or "What happens now?" is not a good ending.

Something being different doesn't make it better, which makes me upset when I see all these people saying "Oh it's different than all those happy endings therefore it's good!" NO it is not "good" simply because it's not like everything else.

[pygmius influenza]

I'm with you man, I loved the ending...i dont get why people dont like it.

[Foxcat]

[quote]Sloppy execution that reuses art assets reveals that it’s a hurried inclusion. The under thought and over pretentious dialogue does nothing but create bizarre, confusing plot holes. It even commits the same sin The Devil Inside did earlier this year, and has the gall to add an advertisement by the producers at the end of the credits, which is frankly insulting.

Far more importantly though, it betrays key themes and values well established by the series thus far. Past player choice impacting the shape of events is negated in favor of an arbitrary and poorly explained “pick your favorite color” moment. Science fiction justification in an otherwise material world is abandoned for magical deism, since quite literally, a god in a machine appears. Unification through altruism and sacrifice is thrown out for pure nihilism: each of the choices you’re forced to make results in Shepard committing some level of genocide or another, with the benefits removed from any relatable emotional touchstone to the intangible space of far flung statistics. It even manages to make The Reapers, one of the more imposing forces of antagonism in recent memory, come across as foolish pawns.[/quote]

Source: http://calitreview.com/24673

.[/quote]

The OP is entitled to like it.  That doesn't change the fact that whether liked or disliked by certain people the ending is from a story-telling perspective simply "bad."

Modifié par Foxcat, 19 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Rune-Chan]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Notice how all these pro-ending posts use the same language? "Thought-provoking", "memorable", "endless possibility."

Almost as if they had no originality of their own, or were working off a template...

Let's not get petty.

Both sides can be like that, it is the nature of humanity and especially the internet.

[Big Push]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Big Push wrote...

If you like the ending as is, that's great! You are welcome to your opinion, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong to enjoy it.

That doesn't mean, though, that from a technical, artistic standpoint that ME3 didn't fail as a story: it did.

I've made this comparison before, and I'll make it again: it's like people who enjoyed Battlefield Earth. Serious film critics completely panned the movie, most audiences hated, and it got this kind of reaction because of a series of technical and artistic failures that made it a failure as a film. That doesn't mean that its fans are "wrong" or have bad taste. But it would be ridiculous for those few fans to seriously argue that the movie is any kind of a triumph of film making or whatever else.

But ME3 wasn't panned by the critics.

Film critics don't support themselves with advertising revenue paid for by the film studios.

Game "critics" are industry shills. Critics outside the game industry have been speaking up about the ending. For example, here's this review.

[Tyrf]

pygmius influenza wrote...

I'm with you man, I loved the ending...i dont get why people dont like it.

I can understand people liking the ending.

I can't understand how people can objectively think that everyone would like the ending.

[ek5000]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

And there is a 100% possibilty that at the end of ME2 we quit Cerberus and decided to go back to the alliance....

I could accept that as a counter-argument, if ME2 had ended the series.

Besides, it fits into the continuation of the story, it makes sense.

[Myrmedus]

I have to admit I do find many of the arguments for the ending very selfish.

It's like they're saying "We liked it so that's all that matters."

Multiple endings guys...it was advertised, no reason the rest of us should be screwed over. You can have your existing endings and we our new ones, there's no reason we shouldn't all have been happy.

[Shaun72]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

The other stuff, its okay, think what you want but this... Well it's objective to me, given the personality of Shepard and the fact that a human cant breathe/survive in outer space. Other than that, glad you liked the endings, I can only believe in a theory that gives them some sense (The indoctrination theory), and can only wait for a continuation DLC. If the theory isn't true, then the ending makes no sense to me (none of the current ones).

When was Shep exposed to vacuum?  I thought the ending was all in the Citadel interior?

This the only issue I have with the majority of people that defend the endings. There is a trend amongst them where they seem to miss major details like this. "Hmm....I didn't notice the giant space battle exposed over my head or the fact that we seem to be on the roof"!  Or...."Well, I didn't notice this or that because I didn't get that paticular ending, etc. (Meaning they didn't even look at the end from all perspectives).

At least most of the people that don't see the logic in the endings seem to have actually watched them from every angle and actually noticed the plot holes before they made their opinions known.

If you want to defend the ending, that's great. To each their own......However, if you want anyone to take you seriously, at least take the time to view all of the plot points that people are talking about so you don't come across as completely oblivious to facts.

[Genera1Nemesis]

ek5000 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

And there is a 100% possibilty that at the end of ME2 we quit Cerberus and decided to go back to the alliance....

I could accept that as a counter-argument, if ME2 had ended the series.

Besides, it fits into the continuation of the story, it makes sense.

Exactly. And they always said this was the end of Shep's story, not the end of Mass Effect. I can assume this means Mass Effect 4 is coming...unless the idea is dead to them now what with all the hate.

[deathscythe517]

You know what? I completely respect your opinion over liking the ending but you have to admit you are in a minority. On top of that making a topic completely devoted to saying 'I love you Bioware' instead of having any real substance for discussion is, at its core, baiting, you know people aren't going to like this topic, you know you're going to get long paragraphs explaining why the ending is bad and at best you should just admit it as a guilty pleasure.

Oh but hey, you're using the same buzzwords that large film studios love to plaster all over their DVD cases...even when the quote is taken out of context. :/ But I'm sure you can enlighten us on why an ending ripped from another game and completely missing the point of not only the game it's ripping off but of Mass Effect's themes itself.

But you go right on keeping on.

[Nataladass]

it's nice that you liked the ending(s). i didn't.
Mass Effect was the best series i've ever played. Mass Effect 2 was the best game i've ever played. For me, ME3 ending(s) destroyed everything the series stood for and, even more serious, it destroyed my faith in BioWare.
To see the statement on facebook today made me cry. they don't have a "secret" DLC and they probably won't make one. liara was right... this is it, isn't it?
I'm so angry with EA, profit is all that matters. more action, more players, less story, cut RPG elements, forced multiplayer... but yes... the saddest thing is, it works. look at the sales, it works and it will work in the future.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Shaun72 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

The other stuff, its okay, think what you want but this... Well it's objective to me, given the personality of Shepard and the fact that a human cant breathe/survive in outer space. Other than that, glad you liked the endings, I can only believe in a theory that gives them some sense (The indoctrination theory), and can only wait for a continuation DLC. If the theory isn't true, then the ending makes no sense to me (none of the current ones).

When was Shep exposed to vacuum?  I thought the ending was all in the Citadel interior?

This the only issue I have with the majority of people that defend the endings. There is a trend amongst them where they seem to miss major details like this. "Hmm....I didn't notice the giant space battle exposed over my head or the fact that we seem to be on the roof"!  Or...."Well, I didn't notice this or that because I didn't get that paticular ending, etc. (Meaning they didn't even look at the end from all perspectives).

At least most of the people that don't see the logic in the endings seem to have actually watched them from every angle and actually noticed the plot holes before they made their opinions known.

If you want to defend the ending, that's great. To each their own......However, if you want anyone to take you seriously, at least take the time to view all of the plot points that people are talking about so you don't come across as completely oblivious to facts.

The Citadel was capable of generating a mass effect field around itself; much like a biotic shield as it were. This is explained in the cannon throughout; and is even evidenced by the gaping hole in the Normandy at the end of ME2 that noone wasn getting sucked out of.

[Richard 060]

As a writer/critic m'self, I agree with the 'objectively bad writing' appraisal of the ending(s?) - from a narrative standpoint, particularly regarding the 'dos and don'ts' of sci-fi pseudo-science, plus things like thematic development (the hoary old 'Chekhov's gun' rule again), ME3 really stumbles badly - and not just at the endings. Don't get me wrong, some of the writing and storytelling is fantastic in specific areas. But in terms of the overall narrative arc, especially when put in context of the entire saga, it's a massive step down in quality from ME1/2.

I'm tempted to add my voice to the choir proper if/when I have the time/inclination, but for the sake of brevity, I'll say this: Between rendering most of the major variables from ME2 moot to the way that 'War Assets' are reduced from being active elements of the final battle to a 'score multiplier' that alters the effect of the Crucible shockwave (seriously - depending on the size of your fleets or which journalists you've been nice to or not, the blast changes from destroying Reapers to annihilating everything. Which makes total sense...), I really get the impression that the plot and endings in particular were 'streamlined' as a cheap way of avoiding dealing with all myriad elements in play over the course of the trilogy. Which is puzzling, since it doesn't take a genius to think of several alternative ways of writing the story to incorporate everything fully (think a cross between the 'either/or' snap-decisions from ME1's final battle, and the 'stacked variables' approach of the ME2 suicide mission) which wouldn't have been any more difficult to implement than what we see in the final released game.

In short? ME3 smacks of wasted potential and cut corners. It's a disappointment, and not just from a storytelling POV, either. Shame, considering the high standard set by the previous chapters - and no DLC endings can really do more than damage control at this point.