New to NWN2, I'm thinking trying some not NWN1 classes.
Warlock seems interesting, only one of the main character in the OC is already one.
So, maybe Eldritch Knight...
Just how does it go, does the armor penalty matter here in NWN2?
If yes, that would mean the robe, weapon finesse, dexterity road, starting as a sorcerer, or a bard (fewer high spells but no "arcane spell failure" penalty with light armor?
I would have loved going for scimitar, 'kind of BG2 feelings...
Would that make more sense going heavy armored, two-handed weapons, but wasting much xps on metamagic feats?
Or Warpriest...
Is there any NWN2 class which is considered as the most surprising, after NWN1?
Thoughts? Don't bother with numbers.
Thanks.
Eldritch Knight build
Débuté par
jmlzemaggo
, mars 19 2012 04:58
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 05:22
The Fred
-
- Members
- 2 516 messages
There is an NPC for most of the classes. You don't get the Warlock guy until quite late. However, as someone who played a Warlock in NWN2 for the very reason that it was a new class, I have to say it gets a bit boring after a while. You are just spamming the same invocations over and over, and unlike with a fighter-type, it doesn't happen automatically.
Armour will cause your spells to fail a certain % of the time. Yes you can use Still Spell but that's really not worth it. Better just not to wear any armour - you can buff up pretty well with spells if you need to.
For Eldritch Knight, I personally prefer Wizard - partly because I just prefer Wizard, but also because you get the spells you need to qualify far sooner. With SoZ a Wiz 5/Swashbuckler 3 has great synergy, but in stock NWN2 you probably just want Wiz 5/Fighter 1 or suchlike.
Regardless, finesse fighting is tougher at lower levels, but because you can craft enchanted weapons pretty easily in NWN2, it's a very viable option. Your base damage will be lower, but when you have a couple of elemental damage bonuses on your weapon it's less of a deal than hitting. Also, at lower levels you will probably want to play as a plain Wizard anyway, more or less.
Armour will cause your spells to fail a certain % of the time. Yes you can use Still Spell but that's really not worth it. Better just not to wear any armour - you can buff up pretty well with spells if you need to.
For Eldritch Knight, I personally prefer Wizard - partly because I just prefer Wizard, but also because you get the spells you need to qualify far sooner. With SoZ a Wiz 5/Swashbuckler 3 has great synergy, but in stock NWN2 you probably just want Wiz 5/Fighter 1 or suchlike.
Regardless, finesse fighting is tougher at lower levels, but because you can craft enchanted weapons pretty easily in NWN2, it's a very viable option. Your base damage will be lower, but when you have a couple of elemental damage bonuses on your weapon it's less of a deal than hitting. Also, at lower levels you will probably want to play as a plain Wizard anyway, more or less.
#3
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 05:37
Artemis Absinthe
-
- Members
- 59 messages
I usually play with a wizard/eldritch knight, but with light armor or no armor at all. Yes, there is the arcane spell failure, only bards and warlocks can ignore it (maximum medium armor by taking the Armored Caster feat).
Anyway, nwn2 uses the 3.5 ed. rules, so, the damage reduction is quite different. For instance, stoneskin gives 10/adamantium, means that the only way to bypass the reduction is by attacking with an adamantium weapon, and not just by using a +4 weapon. The enhancement bonus doesn't count anymore.
If you're going to do an arcane spellcaster, I suggest the wizard, and not the sorcerer, because of the spell level progression. You'll lose a level when you'll take the first eldritch knight, and you're going to get a new spell level every even level, like a sorceror, so, level 4 spells at level 8, level 5 spells at level 10, etc. If you play a sorceror/ek you're going to take a new spell level every odd level, but level 4 spells at 9, level 5 spells at level 11 etc.
Instead of taking a fighter level I prefer to take the weapon proficiency at level 3 and focus on the spellcasting progression.
Anyway, nwn2 uses the 3.5 ed. rules, so, the damage reduction is quite different. For instance, stoneskin gives 10/adamantium, means that the only way to bypass the reduction is by attacking with an adamantium weapon, and not just by using a +4 weapon. The enhancement bonus doesn't count anymore.
If you're going to do an arcane spellcaster, I suggest the wizard, and not the sorcerer, because of the spell level progression. You'll lose a level when you'll take the first eldritch knight, and you're going to get a new spell level every even level, like a sorceror, so, level 4 spells at level 8, level 5 spells at level 10, etc. If you play a sorceror/ek you're going to take a new spell level every odd level, but level 4 spells at 9, level 5 spells at level 11 etc.
Instead of taking a fighter level I prefer to take the weapon proficiency at level 3 and focus on the spellcasting progression.
Modifié par Artemis Absinthe, 19 mars 2012 - 05:41 .
#4
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:02
Arkalezth
-
- Members
- 3 187 messages
A classic EK would look like this.
Bards and warlocks can cast in armor, but only their class spells. So a bard/wizard will still have ASF when casting a wizard spell, but not a bard one. Wizards can take Still Spell, but stilled spells will use a higher spell level, unless you have Automatic Still Spell, but that's in epic (as in NWN1 IIRC). If you only want buffs for your spells, you can always remove the armor/shield to cast them and then put it on again. Or use a light armor with a low ASF and take the risk.
Warpriest is generally considered as a pretty crappy class for clerics, as it halves spellcasting progression.
As for surprising classes in relation to NWN1, I don't know... warlock? There's a bunch of new classes so there are many options you may like.
Bards and warlocks can cast in armor, but only their class spells. So a bard/wizard will still have ASF when casting a wizard spell, but not a bard one. Wizards can take Still Spell, but stilled spells will use a higher spell level, unless you have Automatic Still Spell, but that's in epic (as in NWN1 IIRC). If you only want buffs for your spells, you can always remove the armor/shield to cast them and then put it on again. Or use a light armor with a low ASF and take the risk.
Warpriest is generally considered as a pretty crappy class for clerics, as it halves spellcasting progression.
As for surprising classes in relation to NWN1, I don't know... warlock? There's a bunch of new classes so there are many options you may like.
Modifié par Arkalezth, 19 mars 2012 - 06:09 .
#5
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 09:47
Dann-J
-
- Members
- 3 161 messages
There are two options for armoured EK wizards, both being strategies I've used with different characters:
- Wear a mithral chain shirt (10% spell failure) and offset it with a zalantar light shield (-5% spell failure). You have to learn to live with 5% spell failure though. In Storm of Zehir there is a drider silk jerkin which only has 5% spell failure, making it perfect for use with a zalantar light shield.
- Go fully armoured (plate, tower shield) and use the Still Spell feat. The huge AC is more than worth sacrificing one level of spells. What's more, some spells can be cast in full armour without Still Spell (those that don't have a 'somatic' component). Having at least one level of fighter gives you all the heavy armour feats you need all at once.
There is a third option for those with deep pockets - buy the eldritch knight chain shirt from Deakin in Neverwinter. It has no spell failure at all.
Which strategy you use depends on what sort of armoured eldritch knight you want to be. The first option above would suit a spell-caster with some melee abilities, who would concentrate of spell progression above combat prowess. A melee fighter who occasionally resorts to using magic (like the fireburst spells) would put AC and melee prowess above spell progression, and thus might prefer the second option.
If you prefer to go unarmoured (robe, braces, etc) then you might as well play as a pure wizard or sorcerer.
- Wear a mithral chain shirt (10% spell failure) and offset it with a zalantar light shield (-5% spell failure). You have to learn to live with 5% spell failure though. In Storm of Zehir there is a drider silk jerkin which only has 5% spell failure, making it perfect for use with a zalantar light shield.
- Go fully armoured (plate, tower shield) and use the Still Spell feat. The huge AC is more than worth sacrificing one level of spells. What's more, some spells can be cast in full armour without Still Spell (those that don't have a 'somatic' component). Having at least one level of fighter gives you all the heavy armour feats you need all at once.
There is a third option for those with deep pockets - buy the eldritch knight chain shirt from Deakin in Neverwinter. It has no spell failure at all.
Which strategy you use depends on what sort of armoured eldritch knight you want to be. The first option above would suit a spell-caster with some melee abilities, who would concentrate of spell progression above combat prowess. A melee fighter who occasionally resorts to using magic (like the fireburst spells) would put AC and melee prowess above spell progression, and thus might prefer the second option.
If you prefer to go unarmoured (robe, braces, etc) then you might as well play as a pure wizard or sorcerer.
#6
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 09:57
painofdungeoneternal
-
- Members
- 1 799 messages
Another option is to figure out the few spells that don't have somantic components, which don't need to be stilled to begin with and use those in combat, and use long term spells for buffs which you cast prior to donning your armor. Then you just need a few choice spells to be one spell level higher.
http://nwn2.wikia.co...bal_only_spells
http://nwn2.wikia.co...bal_only_spells
#7
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 10:11
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
First, thanks a lot for everything.
I had that weird feeling most of these prestige class could get quickly boring after doing the same over and over.
I never really played them in NWN1 either.
So, all of this to end up playing a plain wizard as always, what was the point making an NWN2 then.
(I'm really surprised here with the huge difference between wizards & sorcerers, regarding the lower spell levels. I'm playing a sorcerer, and that wizard Harborgirl is already 1 spell level above mine, with 3 or 4 more spells. I don't remember there was such a gap in NWN1.)
But I have to say I'm really enthusiastic with the beauty of that game, and the natural and intuitive feeling of the controls.
Now, I'll need a good night sleep on your advices, and I'm sure I'll make something out of them... in the morrow, like Kana says.
Thanks again.
I had that weird feeling most of these prestige class could get quickly boring after doing the same over and over.
I never really played them in NWN1 either.
So, all of this to end up playing a plain wizard as always, what was the point making an NWN2 then.
(I'm really surprised here with the huge difference between wizards & sorcerers, regarding the lower spell levels. I'm playing a sorcerer, and that wizard Harborgirl is already 1 spell level above mine, with 3 or 4 more spells. I don't remember there was such a gap in NWN1.)
But I have to say I'm really enthusiastic with the beauty of that game, and the natural and intuitive feeling of the controls.
Now, I'll need a good night sleep on your advices, and I'm sure I'll make something out of them... in the morrow, like Kana says.
Thanks again.
Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 19 mars 2012 - 10:16 .
#8
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:42
nicethugbert
-
- Members
- 5 209 messages
nwn2db.com has lots of good builds. I think it'll be easier to advise with particulars in mind.
#9
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 08:48
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
I see, most of these builds go by wizard... where I first had the feeling NWN2 could be a sorcerer's place, for diplomacy, roleplaying and all...nicethugbert wrote...
nwn2db.com has lots of good builds. I think it'll be easier to advise with particulars in mind.
I was also guessing an EK would level up by balancing betwen INT & STR, but most of the builds I read on your 'builds' site go for INT only.
A lot to think about... 'seems like an elegant character, so I might try something around the DEX/Finesse way, another way to reach a decent AC with no armor.
Maybe the way I'm beginning to see an Eldritch Knight...
A light coton shirt, a rapier and some spells...
& thanks for the 'build' link.
#10
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 09:37
Dann-J
-
- Members
- 3 161 messages
Sorcerers make good eldritch knight / red dragon disciples, focusing more on the combat side of things than spell casting. RDD provides the much needed boost to combat-related ability scores. You'll have very few spells to work with though (RDD doesn't grant spell progression) - although lower-end spells like mirror image or blur can be very useful in melee. Equal amounts of EK and RDD can help boost your spell repertoire, but it'll take you longer to get the best RDD ability bonuses.
There are no spell failure issues with bard / eldritch knight / red dragon disciple (mithral full plate counts as medium armour), although you'll have even fewer spells at your disposal. Their innate inspiration abilities can be useful though. I once played through the OC and MotB with a bard / barbarian / red dragon disciple (adding eldritch knight at epic levels).
Wizards progress faster through spell levels than any other arcane spell caster in NWN2, and have access to a greater variety of spells, which is why they tend to be used for prestige classes that require level 3 spell casting (you can get there one level earlier than a sorcerer, and many levels earlier than a bard).
However the most important thing to remember is that the OC is a cake-walk, so you can go into it with almost no build in mind at all (making things up as you go) and still not have any trouble. Some of my best character builds happened by accident.
There are no spell failure issues with bard / eldritch knight / red dragon disciple (mithral full plate counts as medium armour), although you'll have even fewer spells at your disposal. Their innate inspiration abilities can be useful though. I once played through the OC and MotB with a bard / barbarian / red dragon disciple (adding eldritch knight at epic levels).
Wizards progress faster through spell levels than any other arcane spell caster in NWN2, and have access to a greater variety of spells, which is why they tend to be used for prestige classes that require level 3 spell casting (you can get there one level earlier than a sorcerer, and many levels earlier than a bard).
However the most important thing to remember is that the OC is a cake-walk, so you can go into it with almost no build in mind at all (making things up as you go) and still not have any trouble. Some of my best character builds happened by accident.
#11
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 11:00
Arkalezth
-
- Members
- 3 187 messages
I actually advice against RDD, specially the full 10 levels. You want classes that progress spellcasting, and you'll already be delaying it a level with EK and probably another with fighter or something.
Wizard or sorcerer: just choose based on what you like more: memorized, or spontaneous spellcasting. Both work.
STR is usually better than DEX, but if you have SoZ, a swashbuckler/wizard/EK with high DEX and INT is pretty good (wizard is clearly better than sorcerer in this case for the INT synergy). Just be warned that you'll lose the INT damage against crit immunes, and there are plenty of those in the OC, if that's what you're playing.
Bard is also some sort of fighter/arcane caster, so it's another option. But if you play a bard, don't bother with EK, just go heavy on bard levels.
You may want to check out nwn2db.freeforums.org, it's a site specifically designed for this kind of discussions. If you want a simple and effective EK build, I again refer to the one I linked above.
Wizard or sorcerer: just choose based on what you like more: memorized, or spontaneous spellcasting. Both work.
STR is usually better than DEX, but if you have SoZ, a swashbuckler/wizard/EK with high DEX and INT is pretty good (wizard is clearly better than sorcerer in this case for the INT synergy). Just be warned that you'll lose the INT damage against crit immunes, and there are plenty of those in the OC, if that's what you're playing.
Bard is also some sort of fighter/arcane caster, so it's another option. But if you play a bard, don't bother with EK, just go heavy on bard levels.
You may want to check out nwn2db.freeforums.org, it's a site specifically designed for this kind of discussions. If you want a simple and effective EK build, I again refer to the one I linked above.
#12
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 11:18
Dann-J
-
- Members
- 3 161 messages
Indeed - RDD isn't for those interested in spell progression. In fact you'll often only want to take one level of sorcerer or bard just to qualify for RDD (and spells be damned). The ability bonuses in RDD are best for melee fighters - being able to use wands or scrolls is just icing on the cake.
Taking the full 10 levels does grant your some impressive immunities and ability bonuses though. It's almost worth it just so you never have to fear fire-based attacks ever again.
That said, most of my (non-wizard) EK builds have included at least a couple of levels of RDD to improve their strength for melee. Four levels of RDD grants you +4 STR, +2 AC and one use per day of the breath weapon (quite handy for those unexpected troll encounters!). Most of my EK builds have emphasised combat over spell casting though.
Taking the full 10 levels does grant your some impressive immunities and ability bonuses though. It's almost worth it just so you never have to fear fire-based attacks ever again.
That said, most of my (non-wizard) EK builds have included at least a couple of levels of RDD to improve their strength for melee. Four levels of RDD grants you +4 STR, +2 AC and one use per day of the breath weapon (quite handy for those unexpected troll encounters!). Most of my EK builds have emphasised combat over spell casting though.
Modifié par DannJ, 20 mars 2012 - 11:19 .
#13
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 07:30
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
One question: what is this "INT damage against crit immunes" idea you're saying, Arkalezth.
I wanna go with a "light" character, otherwise why not using just a plain fighter or a pure wizard destroyer. I wanna see the juice hiding within that EK that NWN2 cooked for us... some wild girl, dark magics enlighted Knight Captain, Lord defender of the last remaining Keep, the more I think of it.
So maybe I buy SoZ and MoB to be able to see what this swashbuckler is also about.
(I think I'm even ready to install the cheaper PC version on my Mac, thanks to Ranger Solo & Kaldor Silverwand here)
Again, my thanks.
I wanna go with a "light" character, otherwise why not using just a plain fighter or a pure wizard destroyer. I wanna see the juice hiding within that EK that NWN2 cooked for us... some wild girl, dark magics enlighted Knight Captain, Lord defender of the last remaining Keep, the more I think of it.
So maybe I buy SoZ and MoB to be able to see what this swashbuckler is also about.
(I think I'm even ready to install the cheaper PC version on my Mac, thanks to Ranger Solo & Kaldor Silverwand here)
Again, my thanks.
Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 21 mars 2012 - 07:34 .
#14
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 08:05
Artemis Absinthe
-
- Members
- 59 messages
swashbucklers and duelists gain bonuses relatet to the INT modifier (AC, AB, Damage, etc), but only as long as they don't wear any armor. It makes a great choice for a wizard/ek multiclass
#15
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:19
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
Great. I feel something interesting here. I'd go wiki a bit more now...
Thanks!
(Would I be able to keep the same PC through SoZ and then MoB?)
Thanks!
(Would I be able to keep the same PC through SoZ and then MoB?)
Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 21 mars 2012 - 09:22 .
#16
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:24
Arkalezth
-
- Members
- 3 187 messages
That's kinda wrong. At level 3, swashbucklers gain Insightful Strike, which lets them add Intelligence damage (stacks with Strength damage) to their attacks when using light weapons, light or no armor, and are not encumbered. However, this damage is lost against enemies immune to critical hits (such as undead), just like rogues' sneak attacks.Artemis Absinthe wrote...
swashbucklers and duelists gain bonuses relatet to the INT modifier (AC, AB, Damage, etc), but only as long as they don't wear any armor. It makes a great choice for a wizard/ek multiclass
The epic feat Combat Insight uses Intelligence instead of Strength for damage (not stacking). Combat Insight and Insightful Strike stack with each other, though, so at epic levels you can effectively do double INT damage. Sorry if this sounds confusing at first, but that's how it works.
Duelists and Invisible Blades can add their Intelligence modifier to AC when using no armor. I'm not a fan of those classes for EKs, though, at least until high levels.
I suggested swashbuckler because otherwise, if you go DEX based, your damage will be crappy. STR based is a safer bet because it works against everything, and what I'd recommend if you're not familiar with the game. You can craft uber weapons in the OC, though, so if at some moment you feel like you're lacking damage, you may give crafting a try.
MotB continues the story of the OC character, so yes. SoZ, on the other hand, is designed as a standalone adventure for a party of player-created characters of level 4. It's less about story and more about exploration.jmlzemaggo wrote...
(Would I be able to keep the same PC through SoZ and then MoB?)
Modifié par Arkalezth, 21 mars 2012 - 10:27 .
#17
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:36
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
I didn't succeed well with crafting so far, but one can't never try enough, right?
Merci again!
(Not to be confused with 'mercy' here...)
Merci again!
(Not to be confused with 'mercy' here...)
#18
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 11:45
Artemis Absinthe
-
- Members
- 59 messages
Arkalezth wrote...
That's kinda wrong.
more "generic" than "wrong", imho, but, whatever, I don't like the class anyway
#19
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:44
Arkalezth
-
- Members
- 3 187 messages
That's why I said "kinda" and not "completely", the post was confusing and some explanations were in order.
No way to use INT for AB, that part is just plain wrong. And Insightful Strike works with armor, your post seems to imply otherwise.
No way to use INT for AB, that part is just plain wrong. And Insightful Strike works with armor, your post seems to imply otherwise.
#20
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 05:21
painofdungeoneternal
-
- Members
- 1 799 messages
I think there is also the maxed charisma route that uses divine feats.
You take at least 4 levels of paladin, and sorceror 6 until you can get EK and get good melee progression, and the goal is to get the divine feats which boost AC, Damage ( divine might for example ) equal to your charisma bonus, and really good saving throws. It does fit into the entire mystra thing in a cheesy way, even though i kind of think a wizard is more their speed. You do lose some caster levels of course compared to a pure caster, but you also only lose a little bit of ab from those 6 levels of sorceror, and have a lot of options for buffs.
You take at least 4 levels of paladin, and sorceror 6 until you can get EK and get good melee progression, and the goal is to get the divine feats which boost AC, Damage ( divine might for example ) equal to your charisma bonus, and really good saving throws. It does fit into the entire mystra thing in a cheesy way, even though i kind of think a wizard is more their speed. You do lose some caster levels of course compared to a pure caster, but you also only lose a little bit of ab from those 6 levels of sorceror, and have a lot of options for buffs.
#21
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 08:56
Haplose
-
- Members
- 1 262 messages
Swashbuckler/Wizard/EK characters are really awesome to play.... probably my favourite builds... except for the OC and MotB settings sadly. As both of these campaigns have hordes of critically immune opponents who will totally ignore your Insightfull Strike. I'd say for these campaigns a Str based 1 Fighter/5 Wizard/EK is much better off.
Or a charisma-based build, like Pain suggested. They are very strong too. I personally like the charisma builds, but hate the short durations of the divine feats before Epic Divine Might. So I usually only play them in epic settings.
All in all, if it's for the OC, a (mostly) pure Bard build could be your best bet. It's a really nice blend of swords and spells and pretty much a complete class on it's own.
Or a charisma-based build, like Pain suggested. They are very strong too. I personally like the charisma builds, but hate the short durations of the divine feats before Epic Divine Might. So I usually only play them in epic settings.
All in all, if it's for the OC, a (mostly) pure Bard build could be your best bet. It's a really nice blend of swords and spells and pretty much a complete class on it's own.
#22
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 10:13
jmlzemaggo
-
- Members
- 1 138 messages
Bard seems different in NWN2. A bit complicated at first sight, but maybe...
And thanks for the idea.
And thanks for the idea.
