219 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

55,000 + people voted that they want better endings, vs about 3,00 who didn't. Did you not see the poll/Facebook group/twitter?


-Polite

[Penguinlover]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

Yes - it's a minority.

[MonkeyLungs]

Jus ignore people that try to deflect from the observable. Seriously.

[golyoscsapagy]

Killer3000ad wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

No you aren't the minority.

Grasich wrote...

Jamboa42 wrote...



I'm genuinely curious what makes you think you're in the majority?

Polls
usually use very very small sample sizes. The sample sizes we've been
getting are quite large relative to what is necessary for a poll to be
considered noteworthy. Are polls like this going to be slightly biased
towards the angry side? Of course. But 90+% being dissatisfied in the
polls is waaaaay too high to be justified by that reasoning.

sargon1986 wrote...

You only need 1000 voters to make a quite precise poll, we had a lot more then that.

Yeah, that means 98% of the players think the endings suck.

Before trying to appear clever, please take a course on statistics (and pay special attention to the methods of sampling part), so maybe less people will laugh at you.

Your sampling is equivalent of putting a box beside a lake to define its composition. You leave it for a night, and next morning you see that there are a few frogs in it. Congratulations, you just statistically proved that lakes are made out of 95% air and 5% frogs...

Truth is, we don't know. I doubt even BW knows it yet. They will know it sooner or later, we won't. End of story.

Modifié par golyoscsapagy, 19 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Grasich]

Jamboa42 wrote...

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think you're in the majority?

Polls usually use very very small sample sizes. The sample sizes we've been getting are quite large relative to what is necessary for a poll to be considered noteworthy. Are polls like this going to be slightly biased towards the angry side? Of course. But 90+% being dissatisfied in the polls is waaaaay too high to be justified by that reasoning.

[Neuthung]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

55,000 + people voted that they want better endings, vs about 3,00 who didn't. Did you not see the poll/Facebook group/twitter?


-Polite

Oh I've taken part in said polls myself, and am a member of the FB group. But lately there's been a pretty vocal trend on Mass Effect's twitter page telling them to not touch the ending, and I can't fathom why they would want to deny closure, closure that was promised, to what is obviously a massive group of people.

[sargon1986]

You only need 1000 voters to make a quite precise poll, we had a lot more then that.

Yeah, that means 98% of the players think the endings suck.

[vometia]

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

PR types will attempt to claim it's a minority, but it's rather disingenuous to make assumptions about the thoughts of those who haven't voiced an opinion.  That doesn't make them dissatisfied either, but there's obviously a significant problem that needs to be addressed and denying this probably isn't going to do them any favours.

[leeboi2]

Compared to how many people have bought it, it is...

[Masterxalucard]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

ofthat 945,000 only about 10% care enough to use the forums at best. way to compensate for unknowns brah...Oh wait....

Modifié par Masterxalucard, 19 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Neuthung]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

No you aren't the minority.

Before trying to appear clever, please take a course on statistics (and pay special attention to the methods of sampling part), so maybe less people will laugh at you.

Your sampling is equivalent of putting a box beside a lake to define its composition. You leave it for a night, and next morning you see that there are a few frogs in it. Congratulations, you just statistically proved that lakes are made out of 95% air and 5% frogs...

Truth is, we don't know. I doubt even BW knows it yet. They will know it sooner or later, we won't. End of story.

Before you appear to be clever, please be sure to check such things as relevant sampling sizes, and how what has been done kind of blows the usual numbers out of the water.

[Xrissie]

Technically speaking, you guys ARE a minority. 55.000 is not even a quarter of the copies sold to date.

[mango smoothie]

Media is the most powerful weapon in the world, it can make people believe in anything, and right now the big gaming media sites are saying we are a whiney entitled minority. Because of this people who don't research into other people's opinions will follow along with the media.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Moondoggie wrote...

FarynUEA wrote...

Its because people assume that the silent majority automaticly likes the Ending ... which cant be proven ...

But fact is ... we have 42k people ...

42k compared to the overall games sales is a minority of the people who bought the game.

There has been no real proof that any majority dislikes something only internet polls that are not done fairly since there is no control over how many times you can vote and no way to look at demographics of people who dislike something.

I've yet to see any evidence that makes it look like a very noisy minority claiming to represent every single person who played the game. Generally people just pull any statistic that supports their claims while dismissing others claims or paronising them for diagreeing with their view.

Governments only need 1,000 people surveyed to represent a nation.

50,000 is overwhelming. These people are the ones who buy DLC. These people are the people who talk up the games, who sell them through word of mouth. You should never turn your back to your fanbase just because they seem to be a minority in comparison to absolutely everyone. It's business suicide.

[RavenEyry]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

Sample groups man. When you hear 9 out of 10 dentists recommended a toothpaste, I assume you don't think "Every dentist in the world that wasn't polled would have said no"

[Turtlicious]

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

Because we're getting white washed in the media, IGN and many others are calling us entitled brats with a hive mind mentality, and to be honest, on average WHEN POLLED 1:5 people like the ending, (The actual average was 83.66666666%, so I rounded down) These numbers are from the Bioware poll, the G4TV poll, the IGN Poll and I recently added the poll TAO just posted.

so, if 83.666(Adinfinitum) people dislike the ending, then whhy are we etting white washed?

Money, it boils down too that if you make a developer feel like crap, he's not gonna let you in on his next big project, which in turn will make the company less money, and you're out of a job. Developers and Gaming Journalist have a You scratch my back, and I scratch yours system, where press releases are traded for good interviews, this is just the honest to god truth, just like on BSN their are obvious penny posters trolling us, (Which is the only way I can imagine that they get away with being so directly inflammatory and yet not getting banned when I report them.)

Right now it's the majority of the consumers against the Money of EA, and to be quite honest we're winning, but because of this we are going to catch some heat, be called names and treated like crap. This is why we're saying hold the line, this is why we tell you guys to take a break, because it's going to actually be hard to hold onto that will to fight. You're going to feel hopeless, but if you can make it, if you can still be on BSN, like the threads that talk about your opinions, and ignore the threads that don't. Then you'll eventually win.

Hold the Line.

EDIT: Also, this is a sample group of nearly 75,000 (Someone please recheck my numbers though) which means that this is waaaay bigger then your average sample group and a pretty good indicator of the reality of the situation.

Modifié par Turtlicious, 19 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[Neuthung]

RavenEyry wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

Sample groups man. When you hear 9 out of 10 dentists recommended a toothpaste, I assume you don't think "Every dentist in the world that wasn't polled would have said no"

So much this.

[donbaloo]

I'll be frank, in the beginning I felt this probably was a case of the vocal minority being upset. And I mostly still do. And thats absolutely not meant to belittle your position or dismiss the outrage. You're entitled to that and I hope you guys get some satisfaction from BioWare.

We don't really have any real data though, and that's why I feel it's still probably a small (but still significant!) group that is unhappy with the game. What we do have are some polls on various gaming sites that obviously are going to draw folks that have a strong reaction to the game. It doesn't surprise me at all that the "data" is skewed towards the disappointed crowd. I don't know what your actual numbers show but even if you had a 100k people vocally being disappointed, that says nothing about the other...what...90% of people that have played or are playing the game?

So yeah, until a real and unbiased polling firm takes up the issue (which isn't going to happen) I have to believe that you're likely in the minority. But again, a significant minority! What's more important though is that I think your group probably very much represents the likely market of DLC customers. So you will definitely impacts the DLC discussion so don't give up!

[Eyjh]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

50,000 (I believe its 60,000) now is a consdierable sample size. In satistics, it should be enough to reflect the overall view. You cannot expect every poll taken to include abosolutely everyone. Even in post-election voting polls, only 10% of the voters participate, and it gives a good reflection of the overall election.

[Vasparian]

saracen16 wrote...

Because it's BioWare's work, not yours.

Troll says what?

[golyoscsapagy]

Neuthung wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

No you aren't the minority.

Before trying to appear clever, please take a course on statistics (and pay special attention to the methods of sampling part), so maybe less people will laugh at you.

Your sampling is equivalent of putting a box beside a lake to define its composition. You leave it for a night, and next morning you see that there are a few frogs in it. Congratulations, you just statistically proved that lakes are made out of 95% air and 5% frogs...

Truth is, we don't know. I doubt even BW knows it yet. They will know it sooner or later, we won't. End of story.

Before you appear to be clever, please be sure to check such things as relevant sampling sizes, and how what has been done kind of blows the usual numbers out of the water.

I think you should stop before making a bigger fool from yourself. It's not about the size of the box it's about leaving it beside the lake. The sample size can be enough the method of sampling (self-participation without any filtering) is simply wrong.

Try this for starters:
http://www.cbsnews.c...ain;contentBody

Read extra carefully the part about how you properly choose a relevant sample.

Modifié par golyoscsapagy, 19 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[Turtlicious]

Turtlicious wrote...

Because we're getting white washed in the media, IGN and many others are calling us entitled brats with a hive mind mentality, and to be honest, on average WHEN POLLED 1:5 people like the ending, (The actual average was 83.66666666%, so I rounded down) These numbers are from the Bioware poll, the G4TV poll, the IGN Poll and I recently added the poll TAO just posted.

so, if 83.666(Adinfinitum) people dislike the ending, then whhy are we etting white washed?

EDIT: Also, this is a sample group of nearly 75,000 (Someone please recheck my numbers though) which means that this is waaaay bigger then your average sample group and a pretty good indicator of the reality of the situation.

The TL;DR of why we're not the minority.

[Masterxalucard]

RavenEyry wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

Sample groups man. When you hear 9 out of 10 dentists recommended a toothpaste, I assume you don't think "Every dentist in the world that wasn't polled would have said no"

or you know don't troll his poor reasonign skills :/

[Reiella]

Grasich wrote...

Jamboa42 wrote...

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think you're in the majority?

Polls usually use very very small sample sizes. The sample sizes we've been getting are quite large relative to what is necessary for a poll to be considered noteworthy. Are polls like this going to be slightly biased towards the angry side? Of course. But 90+% being dissatisfied in the polls is waaaaay too high to be justified by that reasoning.

While mostly accurate, there is a big statistical failing with these polls.  They are not scientifically proctored.  A lot of statistical theory no longer applies to them.

~500 people is all you need to reasonably represent a population if you have adequate sampling.  These polls will suffer from self-selection bias.

The polls still indicate something very important, that there is dissatisfaction with the ending.  But please, stop trying to apply statistical theory to them, it doesn't work that way .