219 réponses à ce sujet

[Kulthar Drax]

You know, assuming these polls do represent "50,000" dissatisfied individuals, then it is still a considerable problem, especially in light of trying to sell any future DLC. These dissatisfied individuals will be spreading their dissatisfaction by word of mouth, which is often more damaging than anything else. Additionally, if all those 50,000 refused to buy any DLC (let's say there are two DLC at £10 each), then Bioware/EA are potentially losing out on a million pounds of profit which is still a lot overall. Whereas simply fixing the ending with DLC (and even charging for it) will not only win back fans with more positive word of mouth and publicity, but will also increase their profit margins regardless.

[Moondoggie]

blmlozz wrote...

I believe the poll is up to 60K right now, however I would agree that's an enormous sampling size. The major TV news networks blast polling data from a few as 1,000 samplers as factual evidence all the time. That poll is 60 times larger than that. No one polls that large, except maybe the US census.

The problem is proper sample groups are tested with proper conditions and research done on the results. An internet poll is anonymous and has no controls. It's inaccurate because the results are not based on anything nor can they be researched and understood.

[donbaloo]

First, and again, I mean this with all due respect because I want those that are unhappy to get some satisfaction with this thing we all love....but if you're not the majority then you're the minority. Just how it is.

And I spent a lot of time with statistics in my college years as I'm sure many others here have. I would highly recommend that you abandon the statistical arguments. You have no hard statistical relevance due to sampling selection. It's not worthless data though and should bolster your resolve. But please don't give it validity that isn't there.

And again, what I think you can most take heart in is that your numbers DO very likely make up a significant portion of the DLC consumers for ME so absolutely don't give up. You will make massive headway in that department. I can assure you, EA will produce whatever is financially rewarding to them. Let them know what that thing is.

[recentio]

GoblinSapper wrote...

Masterxalucard wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

No you aren't the minority.

Before trying to appear clever, please take a course on statistics (and pay special attention to the methods of sampling part), so maybe less people will laugh at you.

Your sampling is equivalent of putting a box beside a lake to define its composition. You leave it for a night, and next morning you see that there are a few frogs in it. Congratulations, you just statistically proved that lakes are made out of 95% air and 5% frogs...

Truth is, we don't know. I doubt even BW knows it yet. They will know it sooner or later, we won't. End of story.

Before you appear to be clever, please be sure to check such things as relevant sampling sizes, and how what has been done kind of blows the usual numbers out of the water.

I think you should stop before making a bigger fool from yourself. It's not about the size of the box it's about leaving it beside the lake. The sample size can be enough the method of sampling (self-participation without any filtering) is simply wrong.

befor you make yourself look like more of a fool you should realize that recording peoples opinions, and figuring out the biological composition of a lake are not even remotely similar. People have  opinons, where as frogs just want some place warm to sleep.

Before I make you both look like even bigger fools I think you should realize lakes are cold and Marauder Shield died for your sins

Self-sampling in this case indicates significant interest/engagement. I.e. a legitimate sampling of the DLC market, IMO.

Modifié par recentio, 19 mars 2012 - 05:55 .

[golyoscsapagy]

Masterxalucard wrote...
lots of quotes

Statistics doesn't depend on the thing you measure. You really think there's a difference between exit polls or for example trying to find the composition of a forest? There are none.

I always found hilarious when people continue to repeat their stupidity instead of simply googling it and remaining silent.

[Mr Indivisible]

People do, because we are disorganized as a market segment, so getting hard numbers is difficult. Its easier to paint those that are vocal as the minority so corporate entities can ignore them (including journals).

[Qutayba]

It's not something that can be accurately measured, anyway. We happen to know about the polls because we're passionate and on the forums, so we're a self-selecting group instead of a random sample. Joe Shmo gamer who just plays games, but doesn't need to talk about them on the official forum, might like or dislike the game. We just don't know.

Who is the majority/minority is irrelevant. I think our justifications for not liking the ending stand on their own two feet. They may or may not persuade BioWare. Our raw numbers help emphasize that we're not isolated gripers, and that may be enough.

[Neuthung]

Self-sampling in this case indicates significant interest/engagement. I.e. a legitimate sampling of the DLC market, IMO.

Pretty much, this is the best financial situation for BW/EA to go for, I think. Not only this DLC, but others that come out... There's a lot of potential here that could be wasted if they don't work with their fans.

[Masterxalucard]

GoblinSapper wrote...

Masterxalucard wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/
http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

No you aren't the minority.

Before trying to appear clever, please take a course on statistics (and pay special attention to the methods of sampling part), so maybe less people will laugh at you.

Your sampling is equivalent of putting a box beside a lake to define its composition. You leave it for a night, and next morning you see that there are a few frogs in it. Congratulations, you just statistically proved that lakes are made out of 95% air and 5% frogs...

Truth is, we don't know. I doubt even BW knows it yet. They will know it sooner or later, we won't. End of story.

Before you appear to be clever, please be sure to check such things as relevant sampling sizes, and how what has been done kind of blows the usual numbers out of the water.

I think you should stop before making a bigger fool from yourself. It's not about the size of the box it's about leaving it beside the lake. The sample size can be enough the method of sampling (self-participation without any filtering) is simply wrong.

befor you make yourself look like more of a fool you should realize that recording peoples opinions, and figuring out the biological composition of a lake are not even remotely similar. People have  opinons, where as frogs just want some place warm to sleep.

Before I make you both look like even bigger fools I think you should realize lakes are cold and Marauder Shield died for your sins

Poor Marauder Shields.... He will forever be immortalized for choosing to fire  600tiem slower then normal to give woudned shep a fighting chance...

[Shallyah]

Some people here either don't understand statistical polling or are just trolling. Do you know that when you do statistical polling in a whole nation you only take a 0.1% sample of the population, and the results only have an estimated margin of error of 3% at most?

That's it, in a country of 50 million people, only 50,000 are polled and the results are extremelly accurate. And before someone says these polls aren't being objective, go see the IGN poll, which tried to bias their readers in favor of the endings and is currently at 90% of the people who finished the game voting the ending is FUBAR.

[The Night Mammoth]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

I think you should stop before making a bigger fool from yourself. It's not about the size of the box it's about leaving it beside the lake. The sample size can be enough the method of sampling (self-participation without any filtering) is simply wrong.

Try this for starters:
http://www.cbsnews.c...ain;contentBody

Read extra carefully the part about how you properly choose a relevant sample.

It's called Sampling Bias, in simple terms for those of you who want a catch all term for it. That's the only massive flaw with the poll, but its validity is assured by the numbers, overuling consenus, and just how open the poll is.

Of course, there are other methods of gathering data, such as the ChipIn fund.  

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 19 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[Tyrf]

Put it this way...
If everyone loved the ending, they would be swarming the website to say they LOVED it, trying to find other people to discuss the ending with, et cetera.

[Masterxalucard]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Masterxalucard wrote...
lots of quotes

Statistics doesn't depend on the thing you measure. You really think there's a difference between exit polls or for example trying to find the composition of a forest? There are none.

I always found hilarious when people continue to repeat their stupidity instead of simply googling it and remaining silent.

your box is on the side of the lake and considerign i never typed ltos of quotes way to edit my post.

[Turtlicious]

https://docs.google....X1E&output=html

Please tell me if I'm wrong.

[tjmax]

saracen16 wrote...

Because it's BioWare's work, not yours.

not all of it is

www.google.com/search

[Moondoggie]

greengoron89 wrote...


So you're against the assumption that the majority of players dislike the ending and support a change, but are comfortable enough assuming a significant number of the anti-ending group are only in it because of peer pressure?

Neither of those sound like reasonable assumptions, to me.

The thing is there is plenty of evidence on peer pressure on the internet and in the cases of cases like this and evidence that there is an amount of peer pressure to side with one opinion.

The evidence that a majority of people want change to the endings boils down to indissmissable anonymous polling with no rules to it.

I made no assertion of numbers of people who join for peer pressure reasons but there are numbers of people who are involved for reasons other than being passionate about the idea of better endings for a game they love. These people are those who love to cause drama on the internet and those who are easily pressured into following these people because it makes them feel important.

[Grasich]

I think what we can all take away from this is that random polls don't help us reach consensus. We must re-integrate.

[CrazyRah]

Most people call it a minority movement because they don't want to acknowledge it and want to make it look smaller than it really is

[Versus Omnibus]

We aren't the minority, data has proven this and shows we are slowly growing.

[Turtlicious]

Neuthung wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

Because we're getting white washed in the media, IGN and many others are calling us entitled brats with a hive mind mentality, and to be honest, on average WHEN POLLED 1:5 people like the ending, (The actual average was 83.66666666%, so I rounded down) These numbers are from the Bioware poll, the G4TV poll, the IGN Poll and I recently added the poll TAO just posted.

so, if 83.666(Adinfinitum) people dislike the ending, then whhy are we etting white washed?

Money, it boils down too that if you make a developer feel like crap, he's not gonna let you in on his next big project, which in turn will make the company less money, and you're out of a job. Developers and Gaming Journalist have a You scratch my back, and I scratch yours system, where press releases are traded for good interviews, this is just the honest to god truth, just like on BSN their are obvious penny posters trolling us, (Which is the only way I can imagine that they get away with being so directly inflammatory and yet not getting banned when I report them.)

Right now it's the majority of the consumers against the Money of EA, and to be quite honest we're winning, but because of this we are going to catch some heat, be called names and treated like crap. This is why we're saying hold the line, this is why we tell you guys to take a break, because it's going to actually be hard to hold onto that will to fight. You're going to feel hopeless, but if you can make it, if you can still be on BSN, like the threads that talk about your opinions, and ignore the threads that don't. Then you'll eventually win.

Hold the Line.

EDIT: Also, this is a sample group of nearly 75,000 (Someone please recheck my numbers though) which means that this is waaaay bigger then your average sample group and a pretty good indicator of the reality of the situation.

I hate you people when you ignore me, this took me like 15 minutes to write <_<

Sorry bud, I actually really did like your post because it shows how massive the polling has been, especially in comparison to other polls of "importance."

I'm gonna make a new thread, especially since I made my spread sheet 8D

[golyoscsapagy]

recentio wrote...

Self-sampling in this case indicates significant interest/engagement. I.e. a legitimate sampling of the DLC market, IMO.

No. Most people who are content with the status quo don't vote. It's simple human behaviour - if you are okay, you don't do anything. Same **** with dictatorships and the like. You can't draw conclusions about the whole when you only have a sample from the naysayers.

[Moondoggie]

Tyrf wrote...

Put it this way...
If everyone loved the ending, they would be swarming the website to say they LOVED it, trying to find other people to discuss the ending with, et cetera.

But there have been threads on this forum of people that say they enjoyed the endings. Funnily enough there is also a thread from anti-ending people complaning about threads where people said they enjoyed the ending and dismissed them as either stupid or not true fans. Because i guess in there world anyone who diagrees with their opinions is not allowed to post.

[Foehamer1]

Everyone I know says they hate the endings with a passion. Too many incomprehensible things happened to make it a finale for a game series. Not everyone of them cares enough to join a Facebook group or vote on the forums on the other hand. There still is a silent majority of people who hate the endings.

I mean come on! You'd have to play the game only for the action to like it. No person who's been through the entire series for the story would say, "I loved the endings. There was soooo much closure." There is no closure, you can't deny the fact that there isn't any. These aren't endings that any good story writter would end off on.

Modifié par Foehamer1, 19 mars 2012 - 06:03 .