219 réponses à ce sujet

[Theb82]

I dont but I'm certain BW does

[Brawne]

Trying to sweep us under the rug wont work.

[Xerkysz]

Neuthung wrote...

First off, being dismissive will win you no friends.

You don't win friends, you make them and earn their respect.

[MissMaster_2]

You are the 2%

[MB957]

saracen16 wrote...

Because it's BioWare's work, not yours.

to me, it is "our' work.  a co creation of the story and characters.  It is different to me than a book or movie, because I actually "choose and create"  my shepard, and so that character holds within it a whole lot of my emotional framework.

a book or movie...I can identify with the character...but with this rpg...I am the character.

to me..it creates a huge psychological and emotional difference.

[donbaloo]

Shallyah, I realize that you feel your numbers are saying something important, and they ARE! But they're not saying what you're trying to make them say. The problem, as others have pointed out, isn't your sample size. It's the selection method. As a result, you have no hard statistical evidence at hand.

What you do have is a list, a big list, of likely DLC consumers that are unhappy. That matters. What you don't have, is any evidence at all about what percentage of ME3 players dislike the ending.

Select your ammunition wisely here and you will prosper.

[Annora]

nikola8 wrote...

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

A thousand times this.

I hate this community, so I have actively avoided this place since before DA2 came out. It's a cesspool that's gone way beyond the WoW forums. But I'm back now because I feel like I, as one of those silent majority, needed to come back to express that I enjoyed the game and have no regrets about how it ended.

I personally know 15 people who feel the same way as me. I know 2 who are on the hate BioWare bandwagon, and didn't give this game a chance from the getgo. Every 5 minutes, one of them would message me with "Oh, the combat sucks." or "This multiplayer is ****." or "The run animations are stupid." or "The new companions suck." or "I'm so glad I pirated this because **** EA and Origin." I haven't talked to either of them in over a week and a half now because I was sick of their whining, and sick of their entitlement. Meanwhile, i bought the game, and I bought the DLC because none of the stores around me had any Collector's Editions, and I enjoyed myself immensely. I continue to enjoy myself.

So to recap: 2 against, 15 for in my own personal circles of friends and family. And one of those 2 wasn't even an actual customer.

Your outrage is NOT universal.

[Tovanus]

I've seen "vocal minorities" before complain about things in games. Most people have. This has the hallmarks of being a majority opinion, the only real question is how much of a majority. The sample size, the pace and tenor of the forums for the past weeks, and the breakdown of the polls is devastating for the ending. Sample bias can make us argue about how much of a majority it really is, but the breakdown is too severe to ignore that the evidence points in one direction - the ending was bad and the audience hated it.

[Lietuvis]

It looks like they do.

[Menalaos1971]

Whether we are a minority or not, what Bioware needs to realize is that we are the most passionate members of their fanbase.  We are the gamers that love Mass Effect for its fantastic story and gameplay, and know that most Bioware games can be counted on for the same.  We are the ones that tell all of our friends about the next great Bioware game coming out, and get them excited about playing them, too.

We're also the ones that could be counted on to buy all of the DLC for their games.  Your casual players will grab the first one, but with most single player games those guys move on to other games, usually trading in games like these once beaten for credit on their next short term gaming fix.  We hang onto these games.  I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't account for ALL of the ME1 and ME2 DLC sales in the last 6 months.  We're the players that went back to make sure all of our save files were ready and complete to start ME3 on day 1.  We're the reason the Collector's Editions sold out.

So, minority or not, it's not in Bioware's interest to simply dismiss us.  Gamers are fickle and once you've burned them, or even make them feel like they've been burned, they'll turn to another gaming company.  There are plenty to choose from.

[Reiella]

Nachtdämmerung wrote...

Just my thoughts on this:

Here in Germany nationwide TV viewership is measured by having about 5600 households (approx. 13000 people) having a box which tracks the things they view, when, how long etc.

The measured qoutes are the used to represent 34 million households with approx. 73 million people and they determine the prices of ads, the sending slot of a show, it's succes cancellation and so on.

So in this case to have 50000 to 60000 votes against 3,5 millions copies of ME3 shipped (not sold) isn't what I would call a 'minority'

One thing to note though, at least Nielsen in the US tries very hard to not have folks who have vested interest involved in their sampling at all [Gamespot employees can't participate because they are employed by CBS for instance].  Also, generally, they are randomly selected from the pool instead of being a box where you can sign up to have your viewership tracked.  Imagine how much undue influence could be levied by fans of a particular series if they could just volunteer to be one of the sample group.  "Ok everyone, all bronies sign up for Nielsen surveying so we can get My Little Pony to beat out Monday Night Football".

The sampling needs to be done properly, or else it's worthless [with TV specifically, worthless to the advertisers :)].

[nikola8]

RavenEyry wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

Sample groups man. When you hear 9 out of 10 dentists recommended a toothpaste, I assume you don't think "Every dentist in the world that wasn't polled would have said no"

Sample groups only work in a random poll.  Every poll so far has been voluntary, and therefore the people who hated the ending are trying to make their voices heard.  Until Gallup or someone official does a poll on this, I won't put to much faith in the current polls.

Modifié par nikola8, 19 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[Falcon509]

Let's be realistic here.

Example:
60,000 want option A
5,000 want option B
935,000 stated no opinion on options

This example doesn't mean that the non-vocal majority doesn't care. It means that they did not take part in a poll on the subject. They could favor option A or option B. They could have no opinion at all. From this, we can conclude that 66% of the options favor change or have no opinion on change at all. So if option A was accepted as the correct path to take, 995,000 people would either accept the option, or not care.

How does that mean that the non-vocal majority wants the ending to stay the same? If anything, the argument could be made that if changes to the ending were made, most people would favor it, or wouldn't care at all.

That is all. Carry on.

[Moondoggie]

Foehamer1 wrote...

Everyone I know says they hate the endings with a passion. Too many incomprehensible things happened to make it a finale for a game series. Not everyone of them cares enough to join a Facebook group or vote on the forums on the other hand. There still is a silent majority of people who hate the endings.

I mean come on! You'd have to play the game only for the action to like it. No person who's been through the entire series for the story would say, "I loved the endings. There was soooo much closure." There is no closure, you can't deny the fact that there isn't any. These aren't endings that any good story writter would end off on.

I've been playing Mass Effect since the first one came out and i enjoyed the endings. Dismissing anyone who liked the endings as "not a true fan" is foolish and really quite immature.

And assuming the few friends you know who agree with you are "the silent majority" is also kinda silly. A few friends is not the entire customer base who bought the game.

But i suppose your argument is "Only true fans hated the ending" >.>

[Sc2mashimaro]

You know, Bioware knows that the "change/fix/address the ending" crowd is not the minority. What they're really trying to figure out is how to appease as many people as possible while alienating as few as possible. For myself, a good-faith effort to fix the ending is what I ask for - something that fits the themes and rhetorics of the story as a whole, rather than the current ending that fights against those themes and rhetorics - even if it isn't perfect. Because it will never be perfect, but I trust Bioware to write something good. If I didn't trust them to write something good to tidy up this mess, I wouldn't be asking them to do anything to the ending at all.

[RavenEyry]

Neuthung wrote...

Self-sampling in this case indicates significant interest/engagement. I.e. a legitimate sampling of the DLC market, IMO.

Pretty much, this is the best financial situation for BW/EA to go for, I think. Not only this DLC, but others that come out... There's a lot of potential here that could be wasted if they don't work with their fans.

Definately. The majority of people who bought the game would be casual fans who just traded it in and forgot about it afterwards, whether they liked it or not. The rabid fans on this board are the ones who pay real money for alternate appearence packs, so we're the ones Bioware needs to worry about.

[Sirsmirkalot]

The statement of "loud minority" is often based on personal opinion rather than facts, since it relies on unknown numbers. However, almost every poll on the internet shows a landslide of people disliking the ending of mass effect. Whole forums are uproar about this, people that I didn't even know played games like mass effect are posting on their facebook page about how soul crushing this ending is as we speak.

Anyone who makes this out to be "a small group", is ridiculing themselves.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 19 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[815Sox]

Yes. Its called perspective. Hell, even on other video game message boards you can see this. The views reflected from this particular forum are a very small sample size. Most people do not care all that much. The ending was not that bad IMO.

ME was a great series, ME 3 was a very good game.

Modifié par 815Sox, 19 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[FarynUEA]

Anastassia wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

A thousand times this.

I hate this community, so I have actively avoided this place since before DA2 came out. It's a cesspool that's gone way beyond the WoW forums. But I'm back now because I feel like I, as one of those silent majority, needed to come back to express that I enjoyed the game and have no regrets about how it ended.

I personally know 15 people who feel the same way as me. I know 2 who are on the hate BioWare bandwagon, and didn't give this game a chance from the getgo. Every 5 minutes, one of them would message me with "Oh, the combat sucks." or "This multiplayer is ****." or "The run animations are stupid." or "The new companions suck." or "I'm so glad I pirated this because **** EA and Origin." I haven't talked to either of them in over a week and a half now because I was sick of their whining, and sick of their entitlement. Meanwhile, i bought the game, and I bought the DLC because none of the stores around me had any Collector's Editions, and I enjoyed myself immensely. I continue to enjoy myself.

So to recap: 2 against, 15 for in my own personal circles of friends and family. And one of those 2 wasn't even an actual customer.

Your outrage is NOT universal.

Funny ... none of the complaints your "friends" list are really an issue? (at least not the us that Hold the Line

And for the record, I know 15 people of which 13 hated the ending ... totally a not made up number!

[Moondoggie]

greengoron89 wrote...

You're going to have to do better than that if you expect people to buy into your "peer pressure" theory - wanting hard evidence for the opposition's claim yet not providing any to support your own doesn't help the situation much.

You're already sort of proving my point lol. Psycological pressure on me to either produce concrete evidence that you are wrong with the expectation i will fail no mater what i produce in which case left no alternative but to agree with you. I did a whole class on this and how salesmen use these techniques to sell things to people on the doorstep

[HaesoME3]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

recentio wrote...

Self-sampling in this case indicates significant interest/engagement. I.e. a legitimate sampling of the DLC market, IMO.

No. Most people who are content with the status quo don't vote. It's simple human behaviour - if you are okay, you don't do anything. Same **** with dictatorships and the like. You can't draw conclusions about the whole when you only have a sample from the naysayers.

You know nothing.

Sampling bias does not account for the massive disparity in these polls - the only conclusion for anyone who genuinely understands statistics is we're the majority. Sure the vocal group is the minority, but it's a near certainity those disappointed are the majority overall.

Sampling bias simply cannot be made a scape goat for these numbers, stop this madness please.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Moondoggie wrote...

I've been playing Mass Effect since the first one came out and i enjoyed the endings. Dismissing anyone who liked the endings as "not a true fan" is foolish and really quite immature.

And assuming the few friends you know who agree with you are "the silent majority" is also kinda silly. A few friends is not the entire customer base who bought the game.

But i suppose your argument is "Only true fans hated the ending" >.>

You're quite right that it is unfair for people to attack those who liked the ending as "not true fans". However, I do think it is fairly obvious that the majority were unhappy with the ending. The reasons why we were unhappy and the reasons why others liked the ending seem to have a lot to do with expectations and they way each group viewed the story in the first place.

[Unit-Alpha]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

...I don't think you understand sample size.

If there is a poll of 1,000 people, and 50% vote for a Democrat, does that mean only 500 people will vote in the final election?

No, obviously not.

Please use your brain a bit more.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 19 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

The minority being recognized in this case is merely those of us extremely vocal about it.  We are the "far left/right wingers" of the ending sucks party.  We are part oft he majority, but most of that majority isn't vocal enough to make it appear as big as it really is.

In terms of general dissatisfaction of varying degrees, its an overwhelming majority.  Extremely overwhelming.  Congressional disapproval overwhelming.   Statistical analysis of polls and word of mouth all across the internet prove this.

People don't get it because the gaming media is against us.  Its that simple. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 19 mars 2012 - 06:11 .