219 réponses à ce sujet

[Shallyah]

Shall I list the people and their relationships to me, then?

Mother - Enjoyed the ending
Sister - Enjoyed the ending
Brother in law - Enjoyed the ending
Husband - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend's little sister - Enjoyed the ending
Cousin - Enjoyed the ending
Ex-boyfriend - Enjoyed the ending
Old guildmaster - Enjoyed the ending
Husband's childhood friend - Enjoyed the ending
Co-worker - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Old 2s partner - Enjoyed the ending
Nephew - Enjoyed the ending

Guildmate - Disliked the ending
Old friend - Hated everything about the game

The combat was much improved from 2, I didn't even notice the run animations so they didn't bother me, I greatly enjoyed both Vega and Javik, and I've had Origin installed on my computer since it was the EA Download Manager and find the complaints against Origin utterly asinine.

Here, tell them to vote in the poll or their opinion doesn't count - http://www.facebook....50639359051633/

Because I know twelve thousand and twenty seven friends and family that disliked the ending, I'll list them in a few.

Modifié par Shallyah, 19 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[knightnblu]

nikola8 wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

It is a minority- ~50,000 favor an ending change, ~5,000 are adamantly against it.  The game has sold over a million copies.  So, the majority (945,000) aren't losing sleep over this and don't care that much.  That is the majority.

You can't make that assertion. You are claiming to know the minds of 945,000 people. The truth is that nobody can state anything with any degree of certainty regarding that population. All that you can do is to extrapolate a reaction based on what we currently know and using your ow numbers, there is likely a large segment of that population that see it the way the majority of fans do on these boards.

[Moondoggie]

The Real Bowser wrote...

]Oh, they don't have to change a thing.  And we don't have to purchase another Bioware product ever again, too.

They could have made Mass Effect 3 about a dog taking a dump and put a 200 dollar price tag on it.  This doesn't mean that anyone will purchase the game.

Corporations like Bioware live and die, profit and fail based off of whether we buy their games.  I don't think this will kill Bioware, but it is certainly going to wound them.  And there's really no reason not to fix it, especially when they can potentially profit from it in a number of ways.

Either way, I just wanted to say how sick I am of seeing this ignorant comment.  Yeah, it is Bioware's work.  Video games aren't art for you to appreciate.  They are products we purchase for our entertainment.  If we don't enjoy it, we won't buy their products.  Not rocket science.

Technically it won't wound much. EA could easily just cut their losses and pull the plug and relocate the decent developers of Bioware to other projects. Bioware isn't the be all and end all for EA so i doubt they are panicing just yet especially since the game already sold well.

But you do make the point that i am sure they realise this is an excellent chance to A) create extra revenue in some way either through DLC or an expansion pack and in doing so achieve A much closer trust with the gamer who really thinks it;s cool to hate on EA and think it's the devil so by engaging the gaming fanbase they have a chance to change their relationship with them.

In theory it would be good but you always have to worry as a company about creating expectation. What's to stop in future with DLC people being like "This DLC is too expensive we want it cheaper! Hold the line!" and then the solution to the issue was worthless because it just created a bigger issue.

[The Night Mammoth]

wryterra wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

Beware of echo-chamber mentality. Everyone you talk to agrees but that doesn't mean everyone agrees. Hundreds of thousands of copies have been sold, only tens of thousands of people are complaining. That means the movement is the minority. 

No, it doesn't. 

You don't need the oh-so-special class on statistics to understand that's completely wrong.

The conclusion, depending on estimated sales, that "90% of Mass Effect 3 players don't care enough to vote" is equally valid as "Poll suggests majority of fans disappointed." 

You don't need what you seem to think is a special class on statistics to understand that. 

Not really. That's an assumption without any statistical backing. The poll, whilst not entirely valid as I keep saying, does. 

By the 'oh-so-special' remark I was half poking fun at the insistence that you need to have taken a 'class on statistics' to understand something I was taught when I was 14 idoing basic maths.

[wryterra]

Let's make this clear with an easy example:

A maths teacher with a class of 30 students leaves a sheet of paper pinned on the note board. He tells the class 'as an example of statistics, I'd like anyone who feels particularly happy to mark this paper under where i wrote 'happy' and if you feel particularly sad, please note that under the 'sad' heading.'

The next lesson he has the results. 4 students put their mark under sad, one put his or her mark under sad.

The teacher says to the students 'This means that 80% of the school must be depressed! Because 80% of the respondents were sad. What you don't see in the results, of course, is that 25 of you didn't vote at all. So whilst 80% of the respondents were sad, that means only 7.5% of the class are sad.'

The majority result of the poll was a clear minority of the class. Extrapolation of the result without context was wildly inaccurate.

[wryterra]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

wryterra wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

 Just had someone reply to me on Twitter saying that it's wrong to change the game over a minority... How can anyone honestly believe this is some small thing unless they haven't kept up to date on what's actually happening?

Beware of echo-chamber mentality. Everyone you talk to agrees but that doesn't mean everyone agrees. Hundreds of thousands of copies have been sold, only tens of thousands of people are complaining. That means the movement is the minority. 

No, it doesn't. 

You don't need the oh-so-special class on statistics to understand that's completely wrong.

The conclusion, depending on estimated sales, that "90% of Mass Effect 3 players don't care enough to vote" is equally valid as "Poll suggests majority of fans disappointed." 

You don't need what you seem to think is a special class on statistics to understand that. 

Not really. That's an assumption without any statistical backing. The poll, whilst not entirely valid as I keep saying, does. 

By the 'oh-so-special' remark I was half poking fun at the insistence that you need to have taken a 'class on statistics' to understand something I was taught when I was 14 idoing basic maths.

Then poke fun at whoever said it. Why poke it at me? It makes your response to me unnescessarily hostile. 

[Shallyah]

wryterra wrote...

Let's make this clear with an easy example:

A maths teacher with a class of 30 students leaves a sheet of paper pinned on the note board. He tells the class 'as an example of statistics, I'd like anyone who feels particularly happy to mark this paper under where i wrote 'happy' and if you feel particularly sad, please note that under the 'sad' heading.'

The next lesson he has the results. 4 students put their mark under sad, one put his or her mark under sad.

The teacher says to the students 'This means that 80% of the school must be depressed! Because 80% of the respondents were sad. What you don't see in the results, of course, is that 25 of you didn't vote at all. So whilst 80% of the respondents were sad, that means only 7.5% of the class are sad.'

The majority result of the poll was a clear minority of the class. Extrapolation of the result without context was wildly inaccurate.

Again, I know dozens of people who aren't happy and aren't voting just because they don't care enough (counting both real life and other game sites). Next time they will likely just buy another company's game, or have serious doubts about where to invest their money.

Modifié par Shallyah, 19 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Anastassia wrote...

Shall I list the people and their relationships to me, then?

Mother - Enjoyed the ending
Sister - Enjoyed the ending
Brother in law - Enjoyed the ending
Husband - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend's little sister - Enjoyed the ending
Cousin - Enjoyed the ending
Ex-boyfriend - Enjoyed the ending
Old guildmaster - Enjoyed the ending
Husband's childhood friend - Enjoyed the ending
Co-worker - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Old 2s partner - Enjoyed the ending
Nephew - Enjoyed the ending

Guildmate - Disliked the ending
Old friend - Hated everything about the game

The combat was much improved from 2, I didn't even notice the run animations so they didn't bother me, I greatly enjoyed both Vega and Javik, and I've had Origin installed on my computer since it was the EA Download Manager and find the complaints against Origin utterly asinine.

I can make up lists of people that hate the ending. 

Of course, that's absolutely meaningless, so why would I? Do you have *variable* 70,000 others to balance the scales? 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 19 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

wryterra wrote...

Then poke fun at whoever said it. Why poke it at me? It makes your response to me unnescessarily hostile. 

I didn't mean to poke fun at, specifically, you, for that I apologize. There is a kind of common theme in a lot of these threads though, that there's some special statistics course which allows you to understand the basics I know I was taught at around 14-15 years old. 

And of course, you can work it out using reason.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 19 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[golyoscsapagy]

Moondoggie wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

]Oh, they don't have to change a thing.  And we don't have to purchase another Bioware product ever again, too.

They could have made Mass Effect 3 about a dog taking a dump and put a 200 dollar price tag on it.  This doesn't mean that anyone will purchase the game.

Corporations like Bioware live and die, profit and fail based off of whether we buy their games.  I don't think this will kill Bioware, but it is certainly going to wound them.  And there's really no reason not to fix it, especially when they can potentially profit from it in a number of ways.

Either way, I just wanted to say how sick I am of seeing this ignorant comment.  Yeah, it is Bioware's work.  Video games aren't art for you to appreciate.  They are products we purchase for our entertainment.  If we don't enjoy it, we won't buy their products.  Not rocket science.

Technically it won't wound much. EA could easily just cut their losses and pull the plug and relocate the decent developers of Bioware to other projects. Bioware isn't the be all and end all for EA so i doubt they are panicing just yet especially since the game already sold well.

But you do make the point that i am sure they realise this is an excellent chance to A) create extra revenue in some way either through DLC or an expansion pack and in doing so achieve A much closer trust with the gamer who really thinks it;s cool to hate on EA and think it's the devil so by engaging the gaming fanbase they have a chance to change their relationship with them.

In theory it would be good but you always have to worry as a company about creating expectation. What's to stop in future with DLC people being like "This DLC is too expensive we want it cheaper! Hold the line!" and then the solution to the issue was worthless because it just created a bigger issue.

And that's why I would put my money on they won't do anything about it.

'we are watching the fan feedback closely' is cheap. It doesn't need you to do anything. And most of the experts here will find another thing to be entitled about and spread their cleverness somewhere else in two weeks' time. Nerdrage is lagrely exaggerated and blows out fast.

[FarynUEA]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Anastassia wrote...

Shall I list the people and their relationships to me, then?

Mother - Enjoyed the ending
Sister - Enjoyed the ending
Brother in law - Enjoyed the ending
Husband - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend - Enjoyed the ending
Best friend's little sister - Enjoyed the ending
Cousin - Enjoyed the ending
Ex-boyfriend - Enjoyed the ending
Old guildmaster - Enjoyed the ending
Husband's childhood friend - Enjoyed the ending
Co-worker - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Guildmate - Enjoyed the ending
Old 2s partner - Enjoyed the ending
Nephew - Enjoyed the ending

Guildmate - Disliked the ending
Old friend - Hated everything about the game

The combat was much improved from 2, I didn't even notice the run animations so they didn't bother me, I greatly enjoyed both Vega and Javik, and I've had Origin installed on my computer since it was the EA Download Manager and find the complaints against Origin utterly asinine.

I can make up lists of people that hate the ending. 

Of course, that's absolutely meaningless, so why would I? Do you have *variable* 70,000 others to balance the scales? 

Thanks ... I couldnt post, I was to busy laughing

[Sc2mashimaro]

Moondoggie wrote...

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

You're quite right that it is unfair for people to attack those who liked the ending as "not true fans". However, I do think it is fairly obvious that the majority were unhappy with the ending. The reasons why we were unhappy and the reasons why others liked the ending seem to have a lot to do with expectations and they way each group viewed the story in the first place.

Technically you are still agreeing with those views though you just worded it in a different way. Those who liked the ending could not possibly view the story and the game in the way you do therefore are not "true fans"

No, you're assuming that because I am saying that different people view the story in different ways that one group is better than the other. I said nothing of the sort. I only said that the difference between liking and disliking the ending seems to have to do with how the player viewed the story as a whole. Nothing I said implied that one view was superior, only that I happen to view the story in a way that leaves me unsatisfied with the ending.

[ShawdowRaptor]

Not only are we considered a minority, but a "Vocal minority"

[The Night Mammoth]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

]Oh, they don't have to change a thing.  And we don't have to purchase another Bioware product ever again, too.

They could have made Mass Effect 3 about a dog taking a dump and put a 200 dollar price tag on it.  This doesn't mean that anyone will purchase the game.

Corporations like Bioware live and die, profit and fail based off of whether we buy their games.  I don't think this will kill Bioware, but it is certainly going to wound them.  And there's really no reason not to fix it, especially when they can potentially profit from it in a number of ways.

Either way, I just wanted to say how sick I am of seeing this ignorant comment.  Yeah, it is Bioware's work.  Video games aren't art for you to appreciate.  They are products we purchase for our entertainment.  If we don't enjoy it, we won't buy their products.  Not rocket science.

Technically it won't wound much. EA could easily just cut their losses and pull the plug and relocate the decent developers of Bioware to other projects. Bioware isn't the be all and end all for EA so i doubt they are panicing just yet especially since the game already sold well.

But you do make the point that i am sure they realise this is an excellent chance to A) create extra revenue in some way either through DLC or an expansion pack and in doing so achieve A much closer trust with the gamer who really thinks it;s cool to hate on EA and think it's the devil so by engaging the gaming fanbase they have a chance to change their relationship with them.

In theory it would be good but you always have to worry as a company about creating expectation. What's to stop in future with DLC people being like "This DLC is too expensive we want it cheaper! Hold the line!" and then the solution to the issue was worthless because it just created a bigger issue.

And that's why I would put my money on they won't do anything about it.

'we are watching the fan feedback closely' is cheap. It doesn't need you to do anything. And most of the experts here will find another thing to be entitled about and spread their cleverness somewhere else in two weeks' time. Nerdrage is lagrely exaggerated and blows out fast.

That's...... Pretty disingenuous. 

[Avl521]

Well assuming we're about 50.000, and considering the game will like sell in the millions, Yes. We are a minority.

Even then, we're fighting for what's right, we're holding the line.
Majorities are not always right and sometimes majorities completely forget about the most basic and important things.

[cachx]

Backpedaling into "we're the real fans so we're the only ones who matter" is not really helping the cause.

And it's getting old.

[Shalewind]

 You know what, it is correct that we don't have a random sample and that self selection bias is present thus invalidating a good deal of your data without a huge margin of error. This is true. You know what else is true?

You have over 55,000 vocal gamers on your own site bashing your final product. That's serious. Period.

Every poll on any site is coming in at 70-80%+ in favor of a change. That's serious. Period.

You have amazon and Metacritic ratings plummeting into failure zones because of the endings. That's serious. Period.

If this isn't a majority speaking... Well it's damn frightening to think what a "real majority" would do to you. 

[wryterra]

Shalewind wrote...

 You know what, it is correct that we don't have a random sample and that self selection bias is present thus invalidating a good deal of your data without a huge margin of error. This is true. You know what else is true?

You have over 55,000 vocal gamers on your own site bashing your final product. That's serious. Period.

Every poll on any site is coming in at 70-80%+ in favor of a change. That's serious. Period.

You have amazon and Metacritic ratings plummeting into failure zones because of the endings. That's serious. Period.

If this isn't a majority speaking... Well it's damn frightening to think what a "real majority" would do to you. 

I'm not saying it isn't serious I'm saying the people saying they're a majority because they want to extrapolate a self-selecting poll in a niche publication 1:1 to the entire Mass Effect 3 playerbase do themselves more harm than good by making wild and ridiculous assertions rather than reasoned statements. 

[HaesoME3]

Reiella wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

It's... not an assumption...

Have you ever taken a class on statistics? Do you use statistics in your every day life and/or work? I have and I do. Sampling bias cannot account for the poll numbers. If you knew anything about statistics you'd understand this.

Yes it's true sampling bias means it's probably not the vaunted 98% some people use - but it's still logically the overall majority.

It's very disheartening to see people who've no understanding of statistics try and dismiss them.

...  I hate when statisticans skip scopes and methods.

http://xkcd.com/552/

Doesn't quite fit, obviously, but amusing all the same given the situation.

And I hate it when they skip common sense. I don't need to know everything to be able to draw a logical conclusion. I wouldn't submit a 'logical conclusion' in a term paper or try to get it published, but quite often I have to draw conclusions with incomplete data with no way of acquiring more accurate/reliable data.

Have you never needed to make a decision with incomplete information? I actually use statistics, I don't read and write about them in a vaccum - making decisions with incomplete information is an important skill, one I often find missing in so many who claim to understand. People like you would sooner say it's impossible to know rather than give an answer with the stipulation that it's not a certainty.

Would you be willing to bet that sampling bias of 50k vs 5k out of a little over a million really puts the dissatisfied as the minority? I'll concede you can't be certain without more data, that's true fair enough - but would you honestly if forced to make the decision with the information at hand try and suggest it's the minority?

[wryterra]

HaesoME3 wrote...

Reiella wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

It's... not an assumption...

Have you ever taken a class on statistics? Do you use statistics in your every day life and/or work? I have and I do. Sampling bias cannot account for the poll numbers. If you knew anything about statistics you'd understand this.

Yes it's true sampling bias means it's probably not the vaunted 98% some people use - but it's still logically the overall majority.

It's very disheartening to see people who've no understanding of statistics try and dismiss them.

...  I hate when statisticans skip scopes and methods.

http://xkcd.com/552/

Doesn't quite fit, obviously, but amusing all the same given the situation.

And I hate it when they skip common sense. I don't need to know everything to be able to draw a logical conclusion. I wouldn't submit a 'logical conclusion' in a term paper or try to get it published, but quite often I have to draw conclusions with incomplete data with no way of acquiring more accurate/reliable data.

Have you never needed to make a decision with incomplete information? I actually use statistics, I don't read and write about them in a vaccum - making decisions with incomplete information is an important skill, one I often find missing in so many who claim to understand. People like you would sooner say it's impossible to know rather than give an answer with the stipulation that it's not a certainty.

Would you be willing to bet that sampling bias of 50k vs 5k out of a little over a million really puts the dissatisfied as the minority? I'll concede you can't be certain without more data, that's true fair enough - but would you honestly if forced to make the decision with the information at hand try and suggest it's the minority?

I'd argue the result was

50k against
5k for
approximately 1,000,000 choose not to choose

[Talogrungi]

The silent majority can never be relied upon to give any meaningful statistics. The %'s we're seeing from those who -did- vote is pretty overwhelming.

But regardless, let's ignore the %s and the minority/majority situation and look at the raw numbers.

Let's be conservative and say that Bioware is planning about $25's worth of DLC for ME3. (ME2's came to about $45 or something? .. not entirely sure).

Now let's look at those ~50,000 people. Let's be pessimistic and guestimate that only half of them are willing to stand by their principles and not purchase any DLC not relating to the ending.

$625,000 in lost DLC sales incentive enough to take this movement seriously?
Lost revenue from the MP equipment packs?
Add on the potential lost sales from future releases?
And the potential lost ME3 sales due to the bad press/fan reaction?

Now ask yourself; is that something that you as a business would ignore?

[wryterra]

Talogrungi wrote...

The silent majority can never be relied upon to give any meaningful statistics. The %'s we're seeing from those who -did- vote is pretty overwhelming.

But regardless, let's ignore the %s and the minority/majority situation and look at the raw numbers.

Let's be conservative and say that Bioware is planning about $25's worth of DLC for ME3. (ME2's came to about $45 or something? .. not entirely sure).

Now let's look at those ~50,000 people. Let's be pessimistic and guestimate that only half of them are willing to stand by their principles and not purchase any DLC not relating to the ending.

$625,000 in lost DLC sales incentive enough to take this movement seriously?
Lost revenue from the MP equipment packs?
Add on the potential lost sales from future releases?
And the potential lost ME3 sales due to the bad press/fan reaction?

Now ask yourself; is that something that you as a business would ignore?

Put this in context. BioWare have a fanbase with a history of screaming "Pre-order cancelled! I will never buy-BioWare again!" and then buying whatever they make anyway. That's happened time and time again. 

I'd say that changes things.

[chcknwng]

Sigh.

I'm sure you guys have heard of the term "the loud minorities". Those who have the most extreme opinions are usually the loudest.

To provide some insight to the credibility of online polling, just think of this reality: even with all the convenience of online polling, new agencies still give the predictions of elections by entry/exit polling instead by asking people who they voted for on their websites.

As a lot of people have pointed out, the true proportion of people who are dissatisfied are probably somewhere in between 90% and 4%, but we have no means of knowing that, unless someone conduct a carefully designed survey (which is not going to happen because of the cost). EA/BW are measuring the reception of the game by how many people have logged in while playing the game and by sales, which are much more credible and have less uncertainly in there. The polls really didn't count that much except that the hardcore loyal fans are really upset. Whether they care about that is another topic.

Since the 95% who have not voiced their opinions probably do not hate the ending that much (that's would the view of the professionals), we ARE the minority. If you don not hate the story that much, maybe you'll continue buying BW/EA's product. End of story. Any argument that 90% of the polls are against the ending is futile.

The only way to get them to pay attention to the polls, is that if we can get 50% (or even 30%) to vote. If by then still 90% of people are upset, then we can safely say that at least 45% of people hated what you did, and are considering further actions. Then we are talking about millions of dollars and EA will listen.

[golyoscsapagy]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

]Oh, they don't have to change a thing.  And we don't have to purchase another Bioware product ever again, too.

They could have made Mass Effect 3 about a dog taking a dump and put a 200 dollar price tag on it.  This doesn't mean that anyone will purchase the game.

Corporations like Bioware live and die, profit and fail based off of whether we buy their games.  I don't think this will kill Bioware, but it is certainly going to wound them.  And there's really no reason not to fix it, especially when they can potentially profit from it in a number of ways.

Either way, I just wanted to say how sick I am of seeing this ignorant comment.  Yeah, it is Bioware's work.  Video games aren't art for you to appreciate.  They are products we purchase for our entertainment.  If we don't enjoy it, we won't buy their products.  Not rocket science.

Technically it won't wound much. EA could easily just cut their losses and pull the plug and relocate the decent developers of Bioware to other projects. Bioware isn't the be all and end all for EA so i doubt they are panicing just yet especially since the game already sold well.

But you do make the point that i am sure they realise this is an excellent chance to A) create extra revenue in some way either through DLC or an expansion pack and in doing so achieve A much closer trust with the gamer who really thinks it;s cool to hate on EA and think it's the devil so by engaging the gaming fanbase they have a chance to change their relationship with them.

In theory it would be good but you always have to worry as a company about creating expectation. What's to stop in future with DLC people being like "This DLC is too expensive we want it cheaper! Hold the line!" and then the solution to the issue was worthless because it just created a bigger issue.

And that's why I would put my money on they won't do anything about it.

'we are watching the fan feedback closely' is cheap. It doesn't need you to do anything. And most of the experts here will find another thing to be entitled about and spread their cleverness somewhere else in two weeks' time. Nerdrage is lagrely exaggerated and blows out fast.

That's...... Pretty disingenuous. 

Or realistic.
I'm not saying that's their original intention. Or not yet. Maybe they will make plans about an ending dlc. Maybe they will even start to develop it. But you can bet on it they will not confirm it until it is finished. And that's several months in the future if they start to develop it now (and I guess they can't I don't think developers in BW just lay back for half a year or so, they surely have other projects to work on).
Do you think anyone will remember here the hold the line movement in half a year? Don't make me laugh.
First the sheep will fall out - all those who just joined to be important. Saying the same thing again and again is boring afterall.
Then there will be some other worldbreaking thing - and the entitled ones leave to appear great there.
Then people start to get bored and the occasional change the ending thread will result in a flamewar as the gap between normal fans and naysayers is too huge. BW will rightfully close those.

Then it just dies away.

That said the damage is already done. If the ending dlc is unfeasible (and I would say with 50k people it is) it makes more sense to pay less on marketing and do a facelifting. My bet is that they will do this - continue with the planned dlc, events and whatnot, focus a bit of backpadding to the naysayers marketingwise and all is well. Not saying they will not learn from this mistake, I think they will never make the same one. But correcting it would cost too much.

Why? What happened to DA2? Is there a map pack now I'm unaware of?