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A logical analysis of why the Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.


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#201
greywardencommander

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http://social.biowar...0970/1#10351770 
The only way it would work in terms of the out of game if Indoctrination Theory is true is for the DLC to have always been intended to be free.

Also like it or not technically DLC is part of 'ME3' so when they say ME3 will give an ACTUAL ending, they COULD be including the DLC in that. I think they could very well have intended it to 'be obvious' what they were doing, breaking the 4th wall and carrying it on with DLC, but it was poorly executed. MAYBE.

I think you could still have the Indoctrination Theory work regardless of choice (if they decided regardless of whether they intended to or not) by having ending dlc where control and synthesis have you submit to indoctrination (destroy breaking out of it) so you wake up alive and indoctrinated but then at the last minute in a Saren way you are able to temporarily resist it and end the fight and win.

At the end of the day it has never been stated how indoctrination, in terms of what happens between starting and finishing indoctrination works. The codex even says that it includes dreams and hallucinations so even with minor flaws (if the ending is the ending there are plot holes, if indoctrination theory is the intent their are minor flaws) it is still possible both in terms of the tone of the previous games and the lore.

I also think regardless of choice (i.e. people say choosing anything other than destroy means ending dlc based on indoctrination is useless) it can work. Wishful thinking maybe but that way the ending DLC could still be fundamentally the same regardless of final choice at current ending, and showing all your squad mates and forces you have in the epic battle, with cutscenes or seeing them fight (like in the DA:O battle) or even having ME2 style tactics that ultimately you can screw up and lose. The exception can be that in the other two you can throw off the indoctrination right at the end near Harbinger (maybe the Reapers were intending you to get somewhere and then you resist) like Saren and blow up Harbinger or fight him or something.

THEN you can have the cutscenes of all that you've saved, showing how your decisions have impacted, the Quarians, the Geth, the Krogan etc.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 01:11 .


#202
PsydonZero

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What is the meaning of the dreams? (They have to have a meaning. Bioware wouldn't have made them otherwise.)

Why is no one but Shepard able to perceive The Kid?

Why does the Catalyst appear as The Kid?

Why does the Catalyst have three voices (child, MaleShep, FemShep)?

Why does Harbinger take a special interest in Shepard? ("PRESERVE SHEPARD'S BODY IF POSSIBLE")

Why are there trees (same trees in the dreams) near the beam when everything else is rubble?

Why does the Carnifex Shepard picks up have infinite ammo? It's not like Shepard has anything else to shoot and they could always just have Shepard walk into thermal clips at key points in the conversation.

Why is it that when you reload the Carnifex the thermal clip falls in slow motion?

Why does the beam, which the Reapers set up, lead to the very last place the Reapers would want anyone to be?

Why didn't the Reapers defend the beam with all their strength given how crucial it is? Why was it only Harbinger that just flew in at the last second?

Why is that room on the Citadel filled with corpses? Also note that that room is particularly out of place compared to everything else Shepard sees on the Citadel post-beam.

Why do the two subsequent rooms incorporate design elements from the Citadel, the Normandy and the Shadow Broker's ship?

Where did Anderson come from? Why was he teleported to a different location and how did he reach the control panel when there was only one path to it? How did he reach the beam before Shepard when he was at that base directing everything? If he was on the ground with Shepard (he wasn't), why is his uniform spotless?

How did Hackett know Shepard had made it to the Citadel?

Why did Joker retreat? How was he able to rescue the squadmates? Why didn't the Normandy or the squadmates try to contact Shepard?

Why is it that destroying the mass relays via the Crucible (a massive surge of energy that tears the relay apart) doesn't trigger a gigantic explosion that can wipe out a solar system? Going by what was established in Arrival, pretty much the whole galaxy should be dead regardless of what Shepard chooses.

Why is Shepard unable to kill the keepers in the Citadel?

What was that growl Shepard heard during the first scene with The Kid? What was that noise Shepard heard whenever the oily shadows appeared.

Why, after killing Shepard and Anderson, does TIM completely ignore the Crucible control panel?

Why didn't Harbinger ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL over Ravager Shields?

Questions on top of questions on top of questions and I could bring up more. Not a bit of it makes any sense.

#203
GBGriffin

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The only logical analysis people need to concern themselves with is this:

You cannot prove the indoctrination theory is fact. You cannot disprove it either. It is entirely, 100% fan-made speculation, and it's being used to counter speculation from other fans that they simply rushed the ending.

All these threads do are argue speculation vs speculation, and the "evidence" supports both (indoctrination and rushed product) equally. You literally cannot prove the other is wrong without an official word from BioWare.

It's so silly and pointless to even discuss, but it's just people keeping busy, I guess ;_;

#204
SilentWolfie

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I like how stubborn the indoctrination fans are. It's like saying "You killed my pet dog because you walked past my house, but I don't really have proof of you doing the deed. I'll sue you anyway to make a point."

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 21 mars 2012 - 05:55 .


#205
KingKhan03

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Tsantilas wrote...

-Zorph- wrote...

OP a few questions, if you will (in no particular order):

1) Why is the boy from the nightmares coincidentally the Star Child, are you trying to tell me he isn't related?
2) Read the Indoc entry in the Codex, it summarizes the final scene almost perfectly.
3) Listen to the Rachni Queen's description of how indoctrination felt in ME1 and ME3, it relates to many things in the final scene.
4) Why can Femshep/A Child/and Manshep all be heard as the one voice of the Star Child, why does he have 3 voices; specifically Female/Male Shepard?
5) How come TIM says "See what they can do" before Shepard shoots Anderson. How would 'they' make him do that, without at least partially controlling his mind, or attempting to.
6) How come TIM appears out of nowhere, there's nowhere to hide near that console. Speaking of which, how did Anderson teleport ahead of you?
7) Why did Anderson mention moving walls and it resembling the Collector ship? First of all, he wasn't even there. Second of all, it's not moving to Shepard.
8) Why are these huge chasms and platforms with weird HUMAN/ALLIANCE NUMBERS UNLIKE ANYTHING THE CITADEL WOULD HAVE in the so-called 'Citadel'. How would the Engineers of the place not seen these huge chasms? Maybe the beam brought them inside Sovereign instead.
9) Going off of 8, why did Sovereign conveniently fly away the second Shepard starts getting up?
10) Why are the trees from your nightmare there when you get up after getting hit by the beam?
11) How did your squadmates survive the beam and then get beamed up to the Normandy? This isn't Star Trek, despite the cameo to Scotty.
12) Why does James and Kaidan mention a hum, when the Indoc codex entry and the Rachni queen mention noises, not to mention the derelict Reaper scientists mentioning the same thing.

Just some food for thought. I respect your opinion, I just feel like there's too many signs the contrary of the OP.


I could have made a massive post picking appart every single tiny detail that people claim supports the Indoctrination theory, but I decided to focus on the major aspects that pretty much hold the entire theory up.  There are many details like the ones you've mentioned that can be written off as inconsistencies, plot devices/space magic, and flavor details that have no significant meaning in relation to the plot.  I can't give you an explanation for most of them, but I feel that they don't really matter if the main points regarding Indoctrination, don't themselves have any relevance to the established Canon.

How did Kai Leng survive being shot in the face 20 times with a Widow in my playthrough?

How did Joker survive the Normandy crash without so much as a sprained finger?  He's practically made of glass yet he walks out without a single scratch.

How did some ancient civilization design the crucible without knowing what it does, how it works, or how it interracts with the catalyst?  How did each cycle since the initial design keep adding to the it, without knowing any of that either? 

Why did Shepard find it more reasonable to spend every single resource on a mystical space magic powered superweapon of questionable origin and purpose, rather than outfitting every ship in the galaxy with Thanix Cannons?

Compared to questions like that I find it humorous that people are using issues such as a gun having infinite ammo, or trees as evidence to support the theory. 

Shepard goes into the crucible (in the hallucination or whatever) not having any idea how exactly it works, other than it is supposed to defeat the reapers.  The Starchild/Harbinger kid could have easily told him that there is only 1 function, and that is Synthesis and Shepard wouldn't have been the any the wiser.



So you are basically saying the game is broken? the Indoc Theory is a hell of a lot better then the garbage BioWare actually gave us for the ending.

#206
The Real Bowser

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Vigil_N7 wrote...

The issue with the indoctrination theory is that even if it is correct, what can possibly be gained from it? Even if you break the indoctrination, the game still ends in a similar way, and the reaper threat has not been stopped.

So really, if the indoctrination ending was correct, all we've got instead was an unfinished ending, brilliant...

The idea is that the rest of the ending is yet to come in a (free) upcoming DLC pack.

#207
CavScout

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SilentWolfie wrote...

I like how stubborn the indoctrination fans are. It's like saying "You killed my pet dog because you walked past my house, but I don't really have proof of you doing the deed. I'll sue you anyway to make a point."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

This explains what the Indoc supporters are trying to do.

#208
magor1988x

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Great points by the OP & the anti-Indoc crowd.

Stand against the ME3 ending & stand against the Indoc/hallucination desperation. The ending is terrible & attempting to fix it by claiming Indoc/hallucination only make it worse, not better.

#209
greywardencommander

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magor1988x wrote...

Great points by the OP & the anti-Indoc crowd.

Stand against the ME3 ending & stand against the Indoc/hallucination desperation. The ending is terrible & attempting to fix it by claiming Indoc/hallucination only make it worse, not better.


which is why we're saying Bioware, regardless of intent, should just run with it to fix the endings by releasing DLC that just has you wake up after being knocked out by Harbinger's beam

http://social.biowar.../index/10350970 

at least we make an attempt to even give an idea for the new ending, everyone flaming IDT just says - bad writing, broken game - give me an ending without any actual reasons why making the DLC based on 'we've won the indoctrination battle or we've lost depending on our final choice, let's carry on the game' isn't a good idea to 'fix the endings without actually changing anything about the current ones (which would take longer)

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 08:35 .


#210
huntsman2310

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PsydonZero wrote...

What is the meaning of the dreams? (They have to have a meaning. Bioware wouldn't have made them otherwise.)

Why is no one but Shepard able to perceive The Kid?

Why does the Catalyst appear as The Kid?

Why does the Catalyst have three voices (child, MaleShep, FemShep)?

Why does Harbinger take a special interest in Shepard? ("PRESERVE SHEPARD'S BODY IF POSSIBLE")

Why are there trees (same trees in the dreams) near the beam when everything else is rubble?

Why does the Carnifex Shepard picks up have infinite ammo? It's not like Shepard has anything else to shoot and they could always just have Shepard walk into thermal clips at key points in the conversation.

Why is it that when you reload the Carnifex the thermal clip falls in slow motion?

Why does the beam, which the Reapers set up, lead to the very last place the Reapers would want anyone to be?

Why didn't the Reapers defend the beam with all their strength given how crucial it is? Why was it only Harbinger that just flew in at the last second?

Why is that room on the Citadel filled with corpses? Also note that that room is particularly out of place compared to everything else Shepard sees on the Citadel post-beam.

Why do the two subsequent rooms incorporate design elements from the Citadel, the Normandy and the Shadow Broker's ship?

Where did Anderson come from? Why was he teleported to a different location and how did he reach the control panel when there was only one path to it? How did he reach the beam before Shepard when he was at that base directing everything? If he was on the ground with Shepard (he wasn't), why is his uniform spotless?

How did Hackett know Shepard had made it to the Citadel?

Why did Joker retreat? How was he able to rescue the squadmates? Why didn't the Normandy or the squadmates try to contact Shepard?

Why is it that destroying the mass relays via the Crucible (a massive surge of energy that tears the relay apart) doesn't trigger a gigantic explosion that can wipe out a solar system? Going by what was established in Arrival, pretty much the whole galaxy should be dead regardless of what Shepard chooses.

Why is Shepard unable to kill the keepers in the Citadel?

What was that growl Shepard heard during the first scene with The Kid? What was that noise Shepard heard whenever the oily shadows appeared.

Why, after killing Shepard and Anderson, does TIM completely ignore the Crucible control panel?

Why didn't Harbinger ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL over Ravager Shields?

Questions on top of questions on top of questions and I could bring up more. Not a bit of it makes any sense.


Right time for a list of straight forward answers I believe.

1. Anderson was at the damaged door while Shepard checked the vent since he heard a noise, Anderson didn't bother since he was busy getting aformentioned door open.

2. Catalyst appears as kid specifically to guilt trip Shepard.

3. Because the Catalyst picked a approximation of a human voice to throw him off.

4. Harbinger is interested in Shepard because he is the only known human to be successfully implanted with reaper derived tech (apart from Kai Leng, but he isn't very publicly known).

5. Damn tough trees.

6. Be really unfortunate if you ran out of ammo just as Marauder Shields took your barriers down, U mad bro?

7. Adrenaline rush due to Shepard's grievous wounds.

8. possibly because the beam only links to crucially important areas on the Citadel. Plot demands it.

9. The Reapers were focused on defeating the combined might of the galaxy's fleets, and on the ground were being distracted by ground forces.

10. Maybe bodies from Harbinger's attack tumble into the beam, somehow collecting into a mound of flesh?

11. Generally ship or station architecture is very similarly designed. The Shadow Broker's ship was more a station then a moving vessel.

12. Anderson may have gotten to the beam after Shepard did, and by a stroke of deus ex machina, was teleported to a area in front of Shepard. Still it is....implausible.

13. Hacket has very good timing.

14. Joker may have retreated because of damage to the Normandy, and had to get to a repair depot. The squadmates may have been picked up after the assault had failed, and taken to safety.

15. The relays put all of their available energy into firing the beam, and probably fell apart afterwards due to the stress on their superstructure. This also explains why there was no massive explosion.

16. Why would he? The Keepers perform vital functions for the station.

17. That would have been the sound heard whenever near or in contact with a Reaper or fully indoctrinated being.

18. Monologuing dear boy!

19. Maybe because at that point Harbinger had flown off, or maybe because he was sure that Shepard was dead.

#211
PsydonZero

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huntsman2310 wrote...

1. Anderson was at the damaged door while Shepard checked the vent since he heard a noise, Anderson didn't bother since he was busy getting aformentioned door open.

2. Catalyst appears as kid specifically to guilt trip Shepard.

3. Because the Catalyst picked a approximation of a human voice to throw him off.

4. Harbinger is interested in Shepard because he is the only known human to be successfully implanted with reaper derived tech (apart from Kai Leng, but he isn't very publicly known).

5. Damn tough trees.

6. Be really unfortunate if you ran out of ammo just as Marauder Shields took your barriers down, U mad bro?

7. Adrenaline rush due to Shepard's grievous wounds.

8. possibly because the beam only links to crucially important areas on the Citadel. Plot demands it.

9. The Reapers were focused on defeating the combined might of the galaxy's fleets, and on the ground were being distracted by ground forces.

10. Maybe bodies from Harbinger's attack tumble into the beam, somehow collecting into a mound of flesh?

11. Generally ship or station architecture is very similarly designed. The Shadow Broker's ship was more a station then a moving vessel.

12. Anderson may have gotten to the beam after Shepard did, and by a stroke of deus ex machina, was teleported to a area in front of Shepard. Still it is....implausible.

13. Hacket has very good timing.

14. Joker may have retreated because of damage to the Normandy, and had to get to a repair depot. The squadmates may have been picked up after the assault had failed, and taken to safety.

15. The relays put all of their available energy into firing the beam, and probably fell apart afterwards due to the stress on their superstructure. This also explains why there was no massive explosion.

16. Why would he? The Keepers perform vital functions for the station.

17. That would have been the sound heard whenever near or in contact with a Reaper or fully indoctrinated being.

18. Monologuing dear boy!

19. Maybe because at that point Harbinger had flown off, or maybe because he was sure that Shepard was dead.


You missed the first question, so...

1. (Remains unchallenged)

2. The Kid's voice and crawling would have echoed in the vent. Anderson was well within earshot of Shepard. There's no reason he wouldn't assist Shepard in coaxing a child out of a vent (with a high voltage danger sign nearby) so that they can bring him to safety.

3/4. Why? Why would he want to confuse Shepard when supposedly any option Shepard picks will end the Reapers and his function (that is to say, his reason for existence)?

5. What? Shepard wasn't implanted with Reaper tech...and if she was, I'd say that's even more evidence for the indoctrination theory, no?

6. Yeah. In other words, BS. It's an illusion.

7. Do you know how much ammo the Carnifex holds? It's more than enough to do everything Shepard does in the ending twice over. Let's even say it's a special model that holds 1000 bullets in a single clip and 9999 in reserve? The player isn't going to run out of ammo then. But they chose specifically to make it an infinite ammo gun, which makes no sense.

8. Adrenaline Rush doesn't last forever.

9. Despite evidence to the contrary (the Reapers aren't that stupid). They didn't have to resort to something contrived like that with the first Conduit.

10. But they're going to win anyway. They're Reapers, for goodness' sake. Everyone knows that the Reapers can't be defeated in a straight fight--including the Reapers. They know that the Citadel is the organics' lynchpin, so they should put their best defenses there.

11. You call that a straight answer?

EDIT: I missed your "station design" answer. That doesn't make any sense. Citadel, Omega, Reapers, Lazarus Station, Chronos Station, Shadowbroker, Collector Base, Grissom Academy. Shepard has been on plenty of space stations and they all look unique. Why would they have standard designs when they all come from various species? Yet suddenly this part of the Citadel incorporates inconsistent design elements from other stations.

12. I'm glad we agree it's completely implausible. It's a deus ex machina on top of a deus ex machina. Bioware's writers, or at least the Mass Effect writers, aren't perfect, but they're better than that. It's not as if they wrote themselves into a corner, either. Anderson didn't have to be there.

13. Hardy har har. I win.

14. Okay, so...

A. Shepard and the squadmates run to the beam.
B. Shepard is blasted by the beam but the squadmates are not.
C. The Normandy's XO (I guess it would be Joker?) doesn't even bother trying to contact Shepard but instead tells Cortez to fly the shuttle (which, if I'm not mistaken, was damaged during the battle for Earth. In fact, I don't think the shuttle ever returned to the Normandy, but I could be wrong) to ground zero and gather the squadmates (but not Shepard), at which point the Normandy leaves (without telling Shepard) for repairs that are entirely speculation on your part, and doesn't contact Anderson or Hackett or that British Major guy or anyone else to try to get in touch with Shepard.

That makes sense to you?

15. That's not how mass relays work. Mass relays create corridors of mass-free space that allow for near-instantaneous movement of anything that has mass through those corridors. "Putting all their energy" into something implies effort, which isn't what they do. It's the ships that do all the work; they just make everything faster. Also, I'm no scientist but I'm pretty sure energy doesn't have mass. Only matter has mass. I could be wrong, but nevertheless that's still not how relays work. The energy would just travel from one relay to the next really fast. In fact, there's no reason the relays should be destroyed at all--but if they are, their huge E0 cores (massive amounts of constantly active dark energy) would be released.

To quote Amanda Kenson: "Mass relays are the most powerful mass effect engines in the known galaxy. The energy released from a relay's destruction would probably resemble a supernova."

We clearly see the relay being torn apart by a series of explosions and then a bigger explosion inside the space magic wave.

Now, the weird thing is that the E0 in the relay seems to disappear when the space magic wave hits it, so where did the E0 go? If the E0 was transferred to another relay along with the space magic wave, what purpose does that serve? All E0 does is create mass effect fields. In fact, if the space magic wave is using the relay's function to transfer itself at extremely high speeds (that's the only way it could spread across the galaxy so fast), getting rid of the E0 and the relay would instantly deactivate the mass-free corridor (you can see the relay begin to blow up before the beam is launched), slowing down the wave.

16. Because that really matters at this point, but it's besides the point. Shepard is in their presence, and has a gun, but cannot kill them.

17. Then why did Shepard hear it during the conversation with The Kid in the first mission?

18. But his monologue ended with the shot that killed Shepard. He makes no move towards the control panel; he doesn't even look at it. He just stands there.

19. Harbinger could have done it anyway. He was able to do it all the way from dark space in ME2. Why not just possess a husk or two anyway to make a sweep of the area and make sure no more organics are trying to reach the beam?

Which actually brings up another question. Why didn't the Reapers just turn the beam off? They weren't using it for anything at the time.

It is entirely, 100% fan-made speculation, and it's being used
to counter speculation from other fans that they simply rushed the
ending.


But it's more than that. When you really look at the ending in-depth, you realize
that absolutely nothing that happens, nothing that is said and nothing
that is done makes any kind of sense. The ending is more than just inconclusive, unaffected by player choice and all the rest: it's bad writing. Really,
really, REALLY bad writing, to the point where it just doesn't make any
sense that the same people who wrote the rest of the game could have
written something like this.

Let's say for the sake of argument
that the indoctrination theory is wrong: they really rushed the ending
and this was the result. Then why all the weird stuff? Why the heaps and heaps of inconsistencies, errors and logical problems? Even Dragon Age 2 had a better ending. There are 8-bit games with better endings. Fans, myself included, have written better endings that don't even take indoctrination into account and we didn't have months/years to plan it out. At least if all of ME3's writing was just as bad we could write off the ending as being the icing on the cake, so to speak, but ME3's writing is great and the ending is such a stark contrast in quality to everything else in the game it demands explanation.

Modifié par PsydonZero, 21 mars 2012 - 01:55 .


#212
Prudii Aden

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Just thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, and the mission to Thessia - has anyone taken Javik/Prothy along with them on that mission? There's a chunk of extra dialogue that (I think) blows a hole in the theory. The VI talks to Javik, who tells the VI that Shepard is sufficiently worthy to at least be granted the chance to try, at which point the VI starts talking to Shepard until it does the Indoctrination alert, which preceeds Kai Leng's arrival.

#213
Fieros121

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There's one thing I can't stand about the indoctrination theory, and that is if all of that is a dream while you are being indoctrinated and there's nothing else after that point in the game; it means the "epic" ending to the trilogy is Shepard sleeping in some dirt. I hate the hobbit for the same reason, and wouldn't pay for a game (especially 85$) where my character just takes a nap at the end during the final battle and then its over.

#214
ichik

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Tsantilas wrote...

There is no mention of dream sequences, or vivid full blown hallucinations.  


Bam! Some1 didn't play ME2, or skipped the video parts on IFF and audio logs in Arrival?

Tsantilas wrote...

In addition, Indoctrination isn't a process that can fail. 

 

Bam! Some1 didn't read the 3rd book in ME series?

Stopped reading after these two phrases actually, returning to your analysis, but actually it's invalid already.

#215
Exolyps

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Just... someone. Tell me why there is grass just like in the dreams after he is hit by the beam? Please, explain that one.

#216
Nefelius

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It's pointless to argue with mindless zealots driven by their own despair (

#217
DS_Abe

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"The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time."


Saren somehow managed to break the influence. Shepard was a special man/woman, especially for our race, how do you know he wouldn't be able to completely break the indoctrination?

Face it - the ending has so many plotholes, Indoctrination Hypothesis (I hate calling it a theory because I know the meaning of "theory") makes more sense than the real ending.

#218
Paragon Auducan

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Rachni TELL you they can get you in Dreams and you see OILY SHADOWS.

At this point I'm willing to bet actual money on this theory being true.

#219
EpicTacoProject

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The increasing amount of auto-dialogue indicates that the indoctrination has become progressively stronger throughout the series.

#220
erikage

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Didn't read the entire thread but what's the analysis against the scene where Shepard takes a breath after the Normandy crash scene? Even after it goes against the Catalyst saying Shepard will die. This scene after all, is one of the main reasons for the hallucination, indoctrination, nightmare ideas. Would you then suggest that scene is simply a reward for players doing the best they could and is not story driven, in a story driven game?

#221
Thornquist

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InfiniteDemise wrote...

The only argument necessary to disprove the cultist theory is the real-world financial one, which is blindly ignored.

There are some pretty scary similarities between real cultists and the people here that are so desperately trying to make sense of the load of crap dumped at the end of this game. People are inventing new realities to deal with the total disconnect between their emotional investment in Shepard and the ME universe and the bizarre space magic garbage that was actually foisted on us.

It's not healthy to be this obsessed people, let it go.



Exactly. In a work of fiction, the first and most obvious choice for getting answer, is in real-world.

Is there any logic behind Bioware making a fake ending and glue the real one in a DLC?

Well, you could go with the typical "EA EVIL! WANTS ALL OUR MONEY!". But thats a long shot (very, very, very long).

The response thats most fitting to this whole "indoc-theory-debacle", is simply this:


People believe what they want to believe.

#222
Thornquist

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erikage wrote...

Didn't read the entire thread but what's the analysis against the scene where Shepard takes a breath after the Normandy crash scene? Even after it goes against the Catalyst saying Shepard will die. This scene after all, is one of the main reasons for the hallucination, indoctrination, nightmare ideas. Would you then suggest that scene is simply a reward for players doing the best they could and is not story driven, in a story driven game?


Yes.

#223
erikage

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Thornquist wrote...

erikage wrote...

Didn't read the entire thread but what's the analysis against the scene where Shepard takes a breath after the Normandy crash scene? Even after it goes against the Catalyst saying Shepard will die. This scene after all, is one of the main reasons for the hallucination, indoctrination, nightmare ideas. Would you then suggest that scene is simply a reward for players doing the best they could and is not story driven, in a story driven game?


Yes.

And why is that?

#224
Tsantilas

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I've already covered the breathing scene and explained how the starchild never specifically says Shepard will die, only that his synthetic parts (read: implants) will stop working. Whether he lives or not depends on your EMS (read: whether your scientists didn't **** up building the crucible).

#225
erikage

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Tsantilas wrote...

I've already covered the breathing scene and explained how the starchild never specifically says Shepard will die, only that his synthetic parts (read: implants) will stop working. Whether he lives or not depends on your EMS (read: whether your scientists didn't **** up building the crucible).


If I remember correctly, only Shepards brain/head was intact. The rest of himself are implants because his body was, well, not intact. If implants stop working, he would still die. Edit: Yep just did some quick searching. It is referenced in the game about how he was when recovered. He wouldn't breath without synthetics.

Modifié par erikage, 21 mars 2012 - 03:49 .