48 réponses à ce sujet

[Narsilsword]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

I'm trying to imagine what the scene would be like without Legion's death, and it seems like it would just be that "rainbows and butterflies" conclusion that everybody thinks we want for the ME3 ending. It wouldn't be a positive thing.

If rainbows and butterflies is a logical progression of events then that should be the conclusion! I don't understand these people who polarize the issue so much.
There is more to it that just rainbows vs. death
This is why hollywood is making gritty reboots, because of the false assumption that a happy ending ruins a game regardless of validity

I am not saying I want a happy ending because I beleive mass effect has no options for one given the source material of the first two games.

It is a mistake to kill a character just to intentionally darken the mood whilst ignoring the plot

Modifié par Narsilsword, 19 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[ajm317]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

I'm trying to imagine what the scene would be like without Legion's death, and it seems like it would just be that "rainbows and butterflies" conclusion that everybody thinks we want for the ME3 ending. It wouldn't be a positive thing.

I don't have a problem with them killing Legion off, but I do agree with the OP that they didn't properly motivate it.  The reason his sacrifice was necessary was very glossed over and barely explained at all.

If they felt it was necessary to have some sort of sacrifice at the conclusion of that story arc then they should have done a better job of justifying its necessity.  I agree that it's a minor complaint in the grand scheme of things and doesn't ruin the game, but it detracted from the scene.  At the time I wasn't thinking "Oh no, not Legion, I loved that guy!" (like I was when I went on youtube and watched Tali stab him in the back) I was thinking "Wait, what?"

[Viquey]

pb1285n wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

I thought Legion didn't so much die as become part of every Geth. Of course space magic destroys all the Geth in the end but still, Legion is only kinda dead at that point in time.

That's what I figured. There's a little bit of Legion in all of them...except that Prime pretty much said "nah he's dead". I miss Legion, I wanted him back on my team. If only to annoy Kaidan a little more and Javik. Yeah he would have loved that.

They didn't say he's dead, wasn't it more like "The one you know as Legion is gone", which is true

As I watched those scenes more times than I'd like to admit whilst trying to figure out why my shep couldn't make peace, I know that in the sided-with-geth ending the prime clearly says Legion's dead.

Shep: And Legion...?
Prime: Dead. I'm sorry, Commander.

The peace ending is probably what you're thinking of, which goes more like...

Shep: Legion?
Prime: No. I'm sorry, Commander. The one you know as Legion sacrificed itself ...

etc.

Anyway. I agree, it doesn't make much sense, but it can be handwaved I think. Regardless, it's heartbreaking.  I may have kinda... cried profusely. >.>

[Corrik Ronis]

While I agree that it isn't the best writing and his death certainly does not hold the same weight as others, the simple fact of the matter is that none of us has enough information about the Geth or the Reapers to properly call this one out. I wasn't bothered too much by this, but it also didn't properly fall in to place for me either.

[Capeo]

He died because the plot required it. That simple.

[count_4]

Narsilsword wrote...
I do not see any explanation for how the Geth can be upgraded to individual intellect purely from a software upgrade. It is like saying a monkey can become a human without an physiological changes to its brain, it only needs to read more books.

AI is just an immensly complex software. So of course they can gain individual intellect through an update if this update reprograms them to have an individual intellect. 

As for his death: I wasn't bothered that much by the logic behind it. I just regard it as him uploading himself into the network and become part of every geth as a kind of patcher that oversees the transition. 
Sure, he already was connected to it and could have done it remotely but it's abstract enough to accept the way the writers did it to not be bothered too much.

[Mr Indivisible]

He should be able to reintegrate his program after the dissemination is complete. It wouldn't be hard to program the individual geth programs to meet at a specific area and reform once the task was completed.

[angelus2402004]

The first time I played that part of the game, I had no idea what was going on.

[Narsilsword]

Mr Indivisible wrote...

He should be able to reintegrate his program after the dissemination is complete. It wouldn't be hard to program the individual geth programs to meet at a specific area and reform once the task was completed.

exactly, what's with all the urgency, Sheperd could have bluffed the quarians while legion planned to upgrade them at a later date. It could have been an excellent use of paragon/renegade choices to convince the quarians

[HYTEAndy]

I found the Legion/Tali/Rannoch scenario to be quite confusing. When my ME2 Shep saved the Collector base, Legion disapproved, believing that a species should discover technologies in their own time. Yet, he was all too willing to upload that Reaper upgrade in ME3. This seemed like a minor inconsistency, but enough of one for me to notice. Am I missing something, or does anyone agree with this sentiment?

Unfortunately, I didn't realize that stopping the upload would cause Legion to go ape-**** on my ass, either. Of all the crazy stuff Shep has faced, I was genuinely concerned for my character's jugular in that moment. An entirely depressing scene, what with the total extinction of a race... And a *super* awkward EDI convo that follows. =\\

[Red Dust]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I shot Legion.

[movieguyabw]

ElementL09 wrote...

I felt that Legion was a link to multiple Geth Platforms, because of this, the upgrade could have had to much strain on his "artificial being". I thought it made sense, he did sacrifice himself for the Geth as a hole.

I miss Legion, he was an interesting character in Mass Effect 2. Kinda wish I could fight along side him again.

This.  By giving geth autonomy there was no longer any use for the mobile platform named "Legion".  He was never a singular character; he was the entire Geth race.

Funny that I came to this thread about to agree that his death was pointless, until I saw this post and realized this. 

[Tehzim]

I use this quote a lot because I really liked the Geth/EDI/AI sentience storyline. Legion turns and asks Shep "does this unit have a soul?" It was one of the top moments for me in the game. Did it make total sense, probably not, but I think it falls under suspension of disbelief. Legion died to help the Geth evolve (which is what you do in the synthesis ending).

[Dendio1]

Does fake legion have to sacrifice himself? I figured only real legion had the special stuff needed

[Billabong2011]

I don't know enough about the Geth / computer science to give a well-informed opinion of whether or not his death made sense, but from a narrative perspective, I felt it could have been fleshed out better, but didn't compromise my suspension of disbelief. I still cried when he died... Legion has and will always be my favorite character.

Now, I always opt for peace between the two races, but I watched the other options on youtube, and I have to say what I DO have a problem with: LEGION GRABBING SHEPARD BY THE THROAT!? WHAT????!!!
That was total character assassination. I just...what?? Not what he says. What he says was completely faithful to the character. "No! We will not allow you to decide our fate."
But...the violence? And then Tali stabbing him in the back? (Lol he gets shot multiple times, reboot, alive, but gets stabbed, dies) And then when he asks Tali "Does..this unit...have..." and she says YES!? AFTER HE JUST TRIED TO KILL COMMANDER SHEPARD!?!?
I ... no. Everything about that scene was just... no.
I can't even.

Though HYTEAndy, good catch about Legion's feelings on self-actualized evolution - I'd have to replay the game to really get a feel for where he was coming from, but it's hard to motivate myself with those endings... that ending.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 30 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Heavymetal.fan]

Sure it kind of didnt make sense but, atleast it didnt make everyone go ape****(exaggerating).

[ticklefist]

Legions death had absolutely no impact on me.

[lucidfox]

Legion doesn't, strictly speaking, die.

Geth are software gestalts, remember? Legion's dissemination was required to distribute the Reaper upgrades to Legion's code through the geth collective. All the information that was in the platform is still there, it's just dispersed now. Which, admittedly, required the dismantling of Legion's unique personality.

[Bfler]

Why does Legion have to sacrifice himself? If Geth are software it should be possible to make a copy of Legion and upload this copy to the Geth.

[darthnick427]

They could have explained it a bit better but it was a powerful scene regardless if you brokered peace and Legion made the ultimate sacrifice to free his people. Legion will be forever know to me as space Jesus

[Billabong2011]

lucidfox wrote...

Legion doesn't, strictly speaking, die.

Geth are software gestalts, remember? Legion's dissemination was required to distribute the Reaper upgrades to Legion's code through the geth collective. All the information that was in the platform is still there, it's just dispersed now. Which, admittedly, required the dismantling of Legion's unique personality.

Therefore, Legion arguably does 'die' if one recognizes his being 'alive' as his possession of self-awareness that distinguishes him from other sentient beings. It was, in fact, the geth's inquiry into having souls that made the quarians take pause and consider that perhaps they'd evolved to 'living' beings.
I'm not trying to argue with or insult you, I agree with you, I'm just expanding. 

[TeaKae421]

It was a dramatic moment and it was done very well, so I wasn't too concerned with the exact details or why Legion had to die. The scene worked for me, I'll live with the unanswered questions.

[Tom Lehrer]

Legion had to merge everything he was as an individual with all geth. His memories and personality combined with all other geth.

The programs that made up Legion are still there but they are no longer Legion. Even if they all uploaded back into his body they would not be Legion. Thus Legion is dead.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Billabong2011 wrote...

And then when he asks Tali "Does..this unit...have..." and she says YES!? AFTER HE JUST TRIED TO KILL COMMANDER SHEPARD!?!?

I thought that was really fitting; even though she had to kill him, she understood why he did what he did and still saw him as a friend regardless. It shows how much her perception of the geth has changed throughout the series.

Besides, talk with Tali later on the Citadel, and you'll see; she's clearly the forgiving type.

Or would you prefer her just saying something along the lines of "Keelah se'lai, bitch" and blowing off Legion's head with her shotgun instead?

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 30 mars 2012 - 05:37 .