46 réponses à ce sujet

[hero 2]

I don't mind inventory management, but I don't like having to sacrifice crafting because of caps.

[Saavedra]

IMO, if you implement a weight or item limit (which is fine by me), it's also a must to provide containers that can be used for temporary dumping, and at least some chests for permanent storage. I'm also not okay with having to pay extra for said storage - it absolutely should be in the retail version, and generally was provided in every single RPG I played *except* for Dragon Age.
This opinion only goes for RPGs - of course in horror/survival games it makes sense to strictly limit the inventory space, but all it does here is spoil the fun and create annoyance.

Modifié par Saavedra, 30 novembre 2009 - 04:26 .

[Seifz]

The only limited inventory that I didn't absolutely hate was the inventory system in Resident Evil, where you could carry 6-10 items on your person and store as many as you'd like in your "storage chest". Storage chests were magically linked throughout the world, which totally destroyed the realism, but the system really worked for that game. It helped that you never picked up a suit of armor or something that you wouldn't be able to carry, too. It was all guns, ammo, herbs, and small plot items. Good times.



As soon as it's possible to pick up a suit of armor, you've completely killed any chance of realism anyway. At that point, an unlimited inventory is the only type that makes any sense.

[Korva]

I seriously dislike the inventory in Dragon Age. Since "dumbing down" has been mentioned, may I just add how stupid it is that you cannot drop anything and that there are no actual containers? BG was vastly superior in that aspect.

In general, I'm a slightly paradoxical person because I both am a packrat and seriously hate gear issues. I don't care about equipment at all and would be happiest if I never had to waste a moment's time on what I'm wearing or wielding. It's a huge annoyance when it seems a character's equipment matters more than their innate and learned abilities -- any vapid peasant could be a hero if you give him an Divinium Armor of Immunity To Absolutely Everything and a +12 Hackmaster. The old Ultima games were great partly because gear mattered so little.

WoW exacerbated that dislike because of all the bullcrap with an increasing number of constanty changing and totally incomprehensible stats that take obsessive math-humpers to figure out, who then flaunt their findings as the One True Way To Play The Game And Everyone Who Does It Different Or Can't Understand Our Calculations Is A ****ing Worthless N00b LOL.

Unfortunately, DA has similar tendencies.

But, I digress. in my not so humble opinion, a game should either have a "truly realistic" approach or unlimited inventory. Limited-but-shared inventory plus lack of containers plus inability to drop anything = annoying nonsense. A truly realistic option would involve a weight and volume limit of what you can carry, as well as a WYSIWYG approach to loot (like in Morrowind: you can loot all the armor and weapons the enemy has, and if they have potions or such in their inventory they will use them), and of course proper containers and dropped items persisting in the world (at least for a while, thieves and all), plus the more realistic economy that has been mentioned. I would actually like that approach best. Maybe it'd even break me out of my packrat tendencies (ha!).

But at the very least, I expect to be able to drop things and use containers. I really don't understand why Bioware removed that from their games.

Modifié par Korva, 30 novembre 2009 - 12:04 .

[bjdbwea]

Korva wrote...

But at the very least, I expect to be able to drop things and use containers. I really don't understand why Bioware removed that from their games.

Consoles?

[Gecon]

I loved KotOR for its simple inventory.

I swear I spend HOURS of gameplay time in Baldurs Gate JUST to sort out the &/"(&!!! inventories.

Or worse NWN. You ended up not only with 5 or so inventories, no you ended up with 5 inventories of inventories, i.e. bags. Seriously, try finding ANYTHING this way.

[Solica]

I think there are two aspects here.

1: Realism and immersion. It may seem fine to say about all details like this that "it's just a game", and the detail just have a function in the rule set anyway, and that "the rule set could really be completely arbitrary as long as it provides some kind of gameplay". I don't agree with that at all. The DA inventory annoys me because it is totally unrealistic. I didn't knew how it worked for a long time, and I didn't much care. I guess I was too caught up in playing the game. I assume a set of plate armor is going to be a bigger load than a single little nothing, that you just happen to not have previously. But that is not so. I think DA's type&point system with stacking is disgusting. I truly despise it. And I see no valid reasons for making it that way. Well, I just have to push it away and think that it's no big deal, and make sure it doesn't become that again. But these types of design decisions are steadily pushing the definition of our gameplay back to the "collect blue and pink crystals" stadium of abstraction. All while we enjoy better graphics and voice acting. I don't care for this at all.

2: Tedium and convenience. I like limited inventories. Realistically limited inventories. IF and only if there is any gameplay reason for it. If the game has no intention to provide a gameplay importance to choice of what you carry in the inventory, then there is in my opinion absolutely no reason whatsoever to make the inventory limited. That's just tedium and annoyance for the players. But we still have seen a lot of games that fall exactly into that senseless cathegory. Notably many from Bioware. And DA:O seem to be yet another one.

So do I disagree with Bioware's design on the inventory? - Oh, YES!

[Sidney]

Inventory management is always, other than JE, a PiTA. My problem with it in both ME and DAO is that unlike the fairly clean inventory management of BG (+1 > +2) I'm stuck with a ton of weapons and armor that have grossly marginal gains (gloves 1.01 or 1.25) or effects that are badly unclear. They've black boxed the game enough that I do not know if it is better to add physical resistance or defense. Is it better to do more damage or get armor penetration? There's just not enough information displayed in the game to make rational decisions so I wind up making rather uninformed decisions and they feel pretty meaningless.

[Sibelius1]

thegreateski wrote...

Unlimited.

What do you think the dog is in your group for? Fighting?

Hell no! he's a pack mule/dog.

They wouldn't be able to exploit console owners by only including item storage in DLC though....Oops wrong thread

[Odysseus44]

I'm surprised nobody mentionned The Witcher. It had an almost realistic inventory for you character. Of course, the game put far less emphasis on loot than most so-called RPGs, so such a drastically limited inventory systems worked quite well in the end.



Inventory management IMO is a consequence of design choice concerning in-game economy. In that respect, as has already been stated by other posters, only a totally abstract (i.e. unlimited, shared) inventory, or a totally realistic inventory make sense. Then again, it seems game design doesn't have to make sense to be enjoyable for most people...



I just hope there is still a place for realistic - maybe I should say simulationist - design in games.

[zeejay21]

I actually never like inventory limitations but since not all games offer the same features, I'll get used to it and plan ahead.

[F-C]

if they wanted to make an inventory system realistic they would have to calculate both size and weight of every object you carried.

while you may have the strength to carry 3 sets of plate mail, you surely wouldnt be able to juggle it and play effectively at the same time. in the same regard some objects may be smaller but weigh a ton to where you could only carry a few of them before being burdened down with the weight.

i would guess in general its just a pain in the backside to deal with all that really, because you would need to set parameters for every single item in the entire game, and its just easier to slap up a list and say you can carry X amount of items.

personally i dont mind micro-managing inventory, its just another thing to keep track of and think about, no biggie.

Modifié par F-C, 30 novembre 2009 - 02:17 .

[Korva]

Sidney wrote...

My problem with it in both ME and DAO is that unlike the fairly clean inventory management of BG (+1 > +2) I'm stuck with a ton of weapons and armor that have grossly marginal gains (gloves 1.01 or 1.25) or effects that are badly unclear. They've black boxed the game enough that I do not know if it is better to add physical resistance or defense. Is it better to do more damage or get armor penetration? There's just not enough information displayed in the game to make rational decisions so I wind up making rather uninformed decisions and they feel pretty meaningless.

Amen. That is exactly what I meant by my mini-rant regarding WoW and similar tendencies in DA. This game badly needs more transparency. As much as I dislike (A)D&D, at least it's transparent and relatively simple. JE was even simpler, of course, it fit the setting that it was almost entirely about player and character skill instead of some stupid Monty Haul (transparent or not).

This is only partly related to the inventory question, of course, but having seven "tiers" of gear with sometimes only fractional increases in armor but significent increases in fatigue, and various weird properties that you can't find any explanation for, certainly doesn't help. In the end I just said eff this and sold all weapons and armor that I didn't want to keep for looks or as a trophy.

Modifié par Korva, 30 novembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[zippie151]

I would have said unlimited inventory would ruin the fun of managing your inventory but then I look back on Fallout 1, 2 and 3 and how p**sed off I was everytime I found a decent item and had no space and was in middle of nowhere. Also unlimited never ruined Kotor 1 or 2 for that very reason, just suck up the loot and maximise credits!

[Jolly Teaparty]

zippie151 wrote...

I would have said unlimited inventory would ruin the fun of managing your inventory

So you think it's fun? Anyone else thinks it's fun? I tried to present this thread as neutrally as I could, but I'm sure it's pretty apparent to everyone that I hate hate hate inventory management, and I'm really curious to see if the majority derive enjoyment from it. I'm aware that save space limitation on consoles is a reasonable excuse for having it even if it's no fun, but I've seen game devs describing it as a game feature and saying they want players to manage their inventories.

[fro7k]

It really depends on the game. In some games a limited inventory is a major gameplay element. Not sure about DA:O personally.

[dl5910]

I too dislike the inventory management in the game, It's a forced attempt at creating more strategy but as usual it turns into annoying game play. As mentioned before, the best way (although I hate this too) is the weight requirement standard. What is so strategic about carrying eight pieces of chainmail, five staffs, 3, axes, 2 daggers, potions etc until you get to 80.



Also can someone explain why consoles are effected by inventory management.? Does the game become bigger in size if the inventory item moves from a locked chest to the players inventory?

[Jolly Teaparty]

dl5910 wrote...

Also can someone explain why consoles are effected by inventory management.? Does the game become bigger in size if the inventory item moves from a locked chest to the players inventory?

This is the often toted excuse, but I find it very hard to swallow. Is there a console DA:O is on that doesn't have a harddrive? How much stuff would you have to have in your inventory before it even filled a single megabyte?

[StupidWiz]

There should be a chest or something that you can use to store your unused equipments yet too important to sell in camp IMHO

[Sidney]

Jolly Teaparty wrote...

So you think it's fun? Anyone else thinks it's fun? I tried to present this thread as neutrally as I could, but I'm sure it's pretty apparent to everyone that I hate hate hate inventory management, and I'm really curious to see if the majority derive enjoyment from it. I'm aware that save space limitation on consoles is a reasonable excuse for having it even if it's no fun, but I've seen game devs describing it as a game feature and saying they want players to manage their inventories.

There are a lot of OCD types who thrive on this sort of micromanagment.

I'd be fine with, basically, no droppable goods unless the item is enchanted. I could live with the very reasonable explaination that:
1. Most things are going to be broken or ruined froma  combo of slashes and burn marks after most fight.
2. What isn't broken you can't carry with you anyways.
3. Most bad guys don't die with pocket change - WTF does a Grenlock do with his silvers?

Pay me for finished quests and I can stop playing around with tons of crap in my backpack and I don't have to spend a ton of time looting up all the dead bodies like some sick grave robber.

[wanderon]

I think inventory management systems can be useful for balance in a CRPG and on the other hand I think limitless inventory is just another easy button myself.