65 réponses à ce sujet

[Shabob]

Now the time I've spent playing and beating the game was really incredible.  Now as a MMO player I admit I'm spoiled when it comes to replay value, and this game is better than 95% of other single player games when it comes to amount of content.

The reason is that I only have the choice between rogue, warrior, and mage.  Now, normally that would be three play throughs.  The problem with this game is that everyone in your party is allready one of those three classes.  I get to play a warrior every time I use Allister.  I get to play a rogue any time I use Liliana, I get to play a mage any time I use Morrigan.  By the time the game is done I've had my fill of all three classes.

Sure I can play again and take a couple different origins, choices, approvals, etc, but the basic play through is never going to change no matter what I play. 

Edited in the near future for correct name spellings.

[Deathstyk85]

if your an mmo player, then this should seem like the norm to you. i mean if you "run a dungeon" or raid its the same thing over and over and over.

this, while still the same basic outline, has a very different story you can play several times.

also playing the party members, is much different then playing your pc as a rogue/warrior/mage

[thegreateski]

I don't know OP. . . .



I consider there to be a large difference between playing a "goodygoodytwoshoes" and a serial killer.

[Massieve_Slang]

Hm well you can also choose different specializations and choose different spells. There are still a bunch of spells and abbilities I haven't tried out yet after finishing the game. Especially mage one's. Also picking other team members keep it fresh I think as it changes some of the random conversations they have.

[Few87]

Its all about the choices that change the story. This game is more like a book, but there are many different chapters you can follow. hmm that sounded a little gandalf.

[kelsjet]

Spoken like a true MMO junkie OP.

But no, your analysis is faulty. Unlike MMOs, this game is not about just one character, but instead it is about the group.

True, you played as Leliana when she is in your group, but what was that group? 1 tank, 1 CC mage, 1 Leliana ranged spec, 1 healer? What about another playthrough with 4 physical DPS classes? What about another with an all magic group? What about group synergies? What about the fact that even though there are 3 'archetypes', there is a vast variation within these archetypes as far as class and purpose is concerned.

Now true, the game doesn't lay out these variations as blatantly as say, World of Warcraft, but then again, DA:O isn't meant to be as mindless as WoW as far as class design is concerned. In most MMOs, you pick a class and that's it, any specializations within the class only truly change simple aesthetic effects of your class, e.g. the WoW mage has 3 different 'trees' which all do the same thing, you just pick which color bolt comes out your hands.

This is not the case with DA:O. For example, the DA:O mage's specializations are vastly different. Mage's can be spirit casters, elementalists, melee mages (Arcane Warriors), DoT specialists, CC specialists and pretty much every single other combination you can think of.

Now take this deep class variations and combine that with group synergy effects. Playing the game with 3 mages in your group is vastly different then playing it with 3 warriors. And I really do mean vastly different. Your entire approach to combat changes. Fights that you would try very hard to avoid with 3 mages you would welcome with 3 warriors for example. Now imagine how this option space explodes when you take into account all the different class variations. Entire group dynamics will change depending on which variation you take.

This is where the replay value will come in with DA:O. Leliana will be a melee rogue in one playthrough, a ranged specialist in another, a buff-bot extraordinaire bard in the third. She will work with 1 mage and 2 warriors one time, 3 mages another time, 1 melee rogue 1 mage and 1 tank a third time, and we can go on for a while, then multiply that with all the other characters.


But yes, I do agree that if you limit your view of DA:O and totally ignore the vastness of the class and combat system by looking at DA:O with the same brainless glasses you are forced to wear when playing an MMO, then you could think that there is no replay value. Too bad that doesn't change the fact that you would still be wrong.


So yea, go enjoy grinding your MMO. The rest of us will be here, exploring the huge class and combat system, class synergies, and tactics of DA:O.

Enjoy!

[Jensonagain]

I have to admit that the game forces you to be more chaotic than pious.

[Phaedra Sanguine]

kelsjet wrote...


Spoken like a true MMO junkie OP.

But no, your analysis is faulty. Unlike MMOs, this game is not about just one character, but instead it is about the group.

True, you played as Leliana when she is in your group, but what was that group? 1 tank, 1 CC mage, 1 Leliana ranged spec, 1 healer? What about another playthrough with 4 physical DPS classes? What about another with an all magic group? What about group synergies? What about the fact that even though there are 3 'archetypes', there is a vast variation within these archetypes as far as class and purpose is concerned.

Now true, the game doesn't lay out these variations as blatantly as say, World of Warcraft, but then again, DA:O isn't meant to be as mindless as WoW as far as class design is concerned. In most MMOs, you pick a class and that's it, any specializations within the class only truly change simple aesthetic effects of your class, e.g. the WoW mage has 3 different 'trees' which all do the same thing, you just pick which color bolt comes out your hands.

This is not the case with DA:O. For example, the DA:O mage's specializations are vastly different. Mage's can be spirit casters, elementalists, melee mages (Arcane Warriors), DoT specialists, CC specialists and pretty much every single other combination you can think of.

Now take this deep class variations and combine that with group synergy effects. Playing the game with 3 mages in your group is vastly different then playing it with 3 warriors. And I really do mean vastly different. Your entire approach to combat changes. Fights that you would try very hard to avoid with 3 mages you would welcome with 3 warriors for example. Now imagine how this option space explodes when you take into account all the different class variations. Entire group dynamics will change depending on which variation you take.

This is where the replay value will come in with DA:O. Leliana will be a melee rogue in one playthrough, a ranged specialist in another, a buff-bot extraordinaire bard in the third. She will work with 1 mage and 2 warriors one time, 3 mages another time, 1 melee rogue 1 mage and 1 tank a third time, and we can go on for a while, then multiply that with all the other characters.


But yes, I do agree that if you limit your view of DA:O and totally ignore the vastness of the class and combat system by looking at DA:O with the same brainless glasses you are forced to wear when playing an MMO, then you could think that there is no replay value. Too bad that doesn't change the fact that you would still be wrong.


So yea, go enjoy grinding your MMO. The rest of us will be here, exploring the huge class and combat system, class synergies, and tactics of DA:O.

Enjoy!

Oh snap! 

[Serenity84]

Rogues are pretty versatile. Dual wielding assassin? Daggers or longswords? Archer? Both? Utility rogue to open chests and steal?



You can only get about 20-25 spells per character. Wynne and Morrigan are already somewhat locked in their choices. Especially Wynne. The only way to really build your spell selection from the ground up is to play one yourself.

[Walina]

Shabob wrote...

Now the time I've spent playing and beating the game was really incredible.  Now as a MMO player I admit I'm spoiled when it comes to replay value, and this game is better than 95% of other single player games when it comes to amount of content.

The reason is that I only have the choice between rogue, warrior, and mage.  Now, normally that would be three play throughs.  The problem with this game is that everyone in your party is allready one of those three classes.  I get to play a warrior every time I use Allister.  I get to play a rogue any time I use Liliana, I get to play a mage any time I use Morrigan.  By the time the game is done I've had my fill of all three classes.

Sure I can play again and take a couple different origins, choices, approvals, etc, but the basic play through is never going to change no matter what I play. 

Edited in the near future for correct name spellings.

Yes, you're right about DAO being less good than a mmorpgs in replay value because of the class.
Replaying game to try a diferent origin is not really imporant because it won't change the game, only dialogs.

I am replaying the game to make a perfect party, to find the best loots in the game and do most of the side quests so I will be pepared for new DLC otherwise if you already made a "prefert" party, they aren't to much to discover by eplying the whole game just the introductions of origins are enough in my opinion.

Modifié par Walina, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[Tonya777]

So? Its not like you actually sit there and play as the rest of your party do you? I set them on tactics and practically never use them myself , just Lelianna to open chests

[aberdash]

kelsjet wrote a very long post

Thats a very idealistic view of the game unfortunately it is not true. The combat has no depth nor do the classes. Whether you have a 3 mage party or a 3 warrior party each class is still doing the same as it would in any other party composition.

[kelsjet]

aberdash wrote...

kelsjet wrote a very long post

Thats a very idealistic view of the game unfortunately it is not true. The combat has no depth nor do the classes. Whether you have a 3 mage party or a 3 warrior party each class is still doing the same as it would in any other party composition.

Yes, we bow to your solid argument. All the data, evidence (both empirical and measured), inference and analysis you have provided makes your position water tight and impossible to debate against.

... oh wait.

/rollseyes

On a side note, I love it when people feel that "No! You are wrong because you are wrong because I said so, nyaaaah!" makes a solid argument.

NB. As a simple silver bullet for your 'argument' (more like a whine). If there was no depth or variation to the combat system, what is everyone doing in the gameplay forums then? Thats right, they are discussing, arguing, analyzing, iterating and traversing the vast space that is the DA:O combat system. Q.E.D

[karragh]

kelsjet wrote...

 e.g. the WoW mage has 3 different 'trees' which all do the same thing, you just pick which color bolt comes out your hand

I was a frost mage for pvp and an Arcane mage for pve (this was back in Burning crusade days), and there is a huge difference between the way the 2 spec's played, larger than differences in dragon age infact.


That said Dragon age is a way better game than World of Warcraft which got boring and I don't play anymore, I'm not disagreeing when you're saying DAO is better than WoW.

[bayolau]

as a fellow MMO player with extensive endgame experience, i can tell you that 90% of the MMO replayability comes from the fact that you need to group up with the right people. 99% of your re-tries is ruined by incompetent players, drama queens, and flat-out asses.



I have been getting "server firsts" in a particular game for the last 3 years, and I can tell you manage to avoid all the idiots, you can finish the content within a week or two as oppose to months.



Bioware could have programmed those bajillion of idiot bots to ruin your attempts so that you can replay the same quest over and over again, but i think they knew better than that.

[Pseron Wyrd]

I'm a roleplayer. What I get out of this game or any game is limited only by my imagination.



I suppose if all I cared about were the meta-game mechanics then one time through would probably be all I could get out of most any game.



So, my advise is to forget about classes and stats and loot and roleplay your second time through.

[MR-9]

The elitism in this thread is power overwhelming.

[aberdash]

kelsjet wrote...

NB. As a simple silver bullet for your 'argument' (more like a whine). If there was no depth or variation to the combat system, what is everyone doing in the gameplay forums then? Thats right, they are discussing, arguing, analyzing, iterating and traversing the vast space that is the DA:O combat system. Q.E.D

I love when people make statements and claim them to be irrefutable proof when merely a cursory glance proves it wrong. No more than half the threads in that very inactive section have anything to do with combat.

[Walina]

@ bayolau : +10! I would've loved WoW as a rpg pc *_*

[Aesir Rising]

WoW has more quests, character classes, skills, levels, options, a larger land-mass to explore, etc. WoW has more content. But I think the WoW thing got picked up as a straw man to somehow negate the original post's statement about DA (lack of) replayability, so maybe it's time to get back to that point:



"The problem with this game is that everyone in your party is already one of those three classes."



Not sure what WoW has to do with that at all, but DA's story marshals your character along and there are only so many variations of classes... replayability is a concern. You'll be playing the same story, with the same character(s) every time.



How many times did anyone here play through the NWN official campaign? The only reason that game held my interest for so many years was the DM-driven persistent servers where new content was getting introduced minute by minute for years. DA doesn't have this in any shape or form unfortunately. DA replayability is a concern.

[aberdash]

Walina wrote...

@ bayolau : +10! I would've loved WoW as a rpg pc *_*

Without the "FUUUUUUUUUUUUU you ******!!!" or "epic lawl" moments? What fun would that be?

[daem3an]

I have to say, there's a ton of variety and potential different ways to play the 3 classes. I'm not sure I'll ever get to try all the ones I want to (2H rogue anyone?), considering how long my first play through is taking. At the very least I'll eventually play all the origins. I've also stuck with the same 4 companions for the whole game so that leaves a lot of content yet to explore.

[bayolau]

aberdash wrote...

Walina wrote...

@ bayolau : +10! I would've loved WoW as a rpg pc *_*

Without the "FUUUUUUUUUUUUU you ******!!!" or "epic lawl" moments? What fun would that be?

how about wynee needs to be away for an hour to make dinner for her kids. when she comes back morrigan decided that she can't play for the next few days becuase her period has started. then the dog needs to brb because his cat sneaked outside and needs to chase her back. oh snap might as well try it again next week.

while your waiting alistair quitted the game along with your best set of armor so you need to redo the last dungeon to get that back. sound familiar eh lol

[Ghandorian]

it is really going to hinge on the role you play. But the game may not support as many different choices as many of us thought.

[eloquentrave]

This entire thread is amazing.

Not in the usually, implicitly good way, but rather in a stupifying, pushing the bounds of credulity kind of way.

Why so much swing of the proverbial e-peen hammer?

WoW is WoW.

DA:O is DA:O.

...any perceived need of comparisons being so non sequitur that it beggars the mind how anyone who would posit such has the mental faculties necessary to access an internet forum, let alone rant such drivel upon it.

This is an RPG forum. Trolls should be set to the torch on sight.

Modifié par eloquentrave, 30 novembre 2009 - 01:22 .