292 réponses à ce sujet

[anexanhume]

http://www.theverge....-ken-levine-sad

Game makers, not game players, should retain control over the games
they make and how they end, a panel of developers said during a weekend
talk at the Smithsonian to celebrate the new exhibit, "The Art of Video
Games."
"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," said
Paul Barnett, senior creative director at BioWare-Mythic. "Just as J.K.
Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I
don't think she should be forced to make another one.
The comment came at the end of a nearly hour-long discussion about the future of video games which took place in front of a live audience at the Smithsonian American Art Museum last week.
Following the discussion, audience members were given the opportunity to ask questions. A man named Sam asked:
"What do you think of the whole idea where community has influence on
making game story like for Paul with BioWare ...," he asked, referring
to the "current fiasco going on right now with the Mass Effect ending."
Some gamers are upset over what they believe was an unsatisfying
ending to the Mass Effect trilogy, a series that promised gamers an
ending that was in part shaped by the choices they made over the course
of playing the three titles.
Barnett's response was met with loud applause that overwhelmed Sam's response.
When the applause died down Ken Levine, founder of Irrational Games,
added that he wanted to address the question as well because, Levine
said, "I think this is an important moment."
"I think if those people got what they wanted and (BioWare) wrote
their ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling
they got because ... they didn't really create it," he said. "I think
this whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don't think
anyone would get what they wanted if that happened."

So what does everyone think? Will the ending not be 'true' if it is engineered by the fans? If so, how is that different than the feedback loop Bioware used to write subsequent games, such as including Tali and Garrus as romance options?

[StarcloudSWG]

Translation: "I'm ignoring the fact that if games are art, the players are both the patrons, who have a right to ask for changes, and cooperating artists who help the work evolve. I'm also ignoring the fact that even passive viewers of art can and should express dissatisfaction with the art produced if it is crap or otherwise unfinished. I'm ignoring all that, because I just want to make money and not be criticized if I put out crap."

[anexanhume]

But does Ken Levine have a vested interest in Mass Effect 3's success? If games can be amended to appease fans, is that not just another opportunity to make money?

[Nu-Nu]

JK Rowling wanted to kill off Harry Potter but she didn't because people begged her not to. That reference fail. Fans can influence an author's decision.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 19 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[agathokakological]

The moment that art becomes commissioned art is when the artists lose supreme artistic license over the product.

[Heretic19]

I don't see a problem with it as long as they themselves want to change it. If they do not want to, then it is their right not to. It's honestly not the worst ending of all time, but people love this game so much that they don't want it to end on such a sloppy note.

[Aganerral]

Creators have the right to end their works as they see fit.

We have a right to voice our disappointment. I'm sure that JK Rowling got plenty of positive and negative feedback about the end of Harry Potter. George Lucas has gotten lots of feedback on his changes and additions to Star Wars.

Bioware has the right as creators to tell us tough luck, this is how we want it to end and we're not changing it. They also have the right to add any content they choose, either more that builds on what they did or changes based on fan feedback.

We have the right never to buy their products again.

[Reptilian Rob]

agathokakological wrote...

The moment that art becomes commissioned art is when the artists lose supreme artistic license over the product.

Truth. 

[Coolfaec]

It's called "Irrational Games" it does not require a reason.

[timmy166]

but ken levine does not reference the true value of our medium: Patches.

[ticklefist]

I'm not going to sit here and try to pick the "artistic license" argument apart. I don't imagine my kids would like it if I told them the paper sack chicken puppets they made in school were bad. And yes, insulting as it is, that IS the analogy I'm going with.

This isn't a matter of art. It's a matter of effort. They just didn't try very hard. It's less like art and more like manufactured good that came without the features you were told it would. It's like a car without window holes cut out that feels like it's about to fall apart because all the bolts are loose.

Why are we arguing ART?

Modifié par ticklefist, 19 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[billyzero]

Many movies have had their endings rewritten after testing poorly with audiences.

Art can be changed to account for viewer preferences without being compromised. In fact, that might be the most noteworthy art.

[Jaze55]

anexanhume wrote...

http://www.theverge....-ken-levine-sad

Game makers, not game players, should retain control over the games
they make and how they end, a panel of developers said during a weekend
talk at the Smithsonian to celebrate the new exhibit, "The Art of Video
Games."
"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," said
Paul Barnett, senior creative director at BioWare-Mythic. "Just as J.K.
Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I
don't think she should be forced to make another one.
The comment came at the end of a nearly hour-long discussion about the future of video games which took place in front of a live audience at the Smithsonian American Art Museum last week.
Following the discussion, audience members were given the opportunity to ask questions. A man named Sam asked:
"What do you think of the whole idea where community has influence on
making game story like for Paul with BioWare ...," he asked, referring
to the "current fiasco going on right now with the Mass Effect ending."
Some gamers are upset over what they believe was an unsatisfying
ending to the Mass Effect trilogy, a series that promised gamers an
ending that was in part shaped by the choices they made over the course
of playing the three titles.
Barnett's response was met with loud applause that overwhelmed Sam's response.
When the applause died down Ken Levine, founder of Irrational Games,
added that he wanted to address the question as well because, Levine
said, "I think this is an important moment."
"I think if those people got what they wanted and (BioWare) wrote
their ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling
they got because ... they didn't really create it," he said. "I think
this whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don't think
anyone would get what they wanted if that happened."

So what does everyone think? Will the ending not be 'true' if it is engineered by the fans? If so, how is that different than the feedback loop Bioware used to write subsequent games, such as including Tali and Garrus as romance options?

This is what's confusing me. Are WE trying to make a new ending or are we trying to allow Bioware to fix their ending?

I really don't want to be involved if WE are trying to make the ending. 

[detroitmechworks]

So a shooter/plot dictating guy feels that an RPG should follow his archetype.

What a shock.

[Total Biscuit]

Nu-Nu wrote...

JK Rowling wanted to kill off Harry Potter but she didn't because people begged her not to. That reference fail. Fans can influence an author's decision.

She was also going to kill Ron off too, but realised that it would be pointlessly miserable, everyone would hate it, and that she was just doing it to shock, and pretend to be clever, rather than because it was actually a good idea, so chucked the idea out entirely. 

[atheimetal]

This does not change the fact that we were promised things that were not delivered on. If the endings would have been varied and based on our decisions, we would not be here. There would be no movement. People would be mostly pleased.

[anexanhume]

MassEffected555 wrote...

anexanhume wrote...

http://www.theverge....-ken-levine-sad

Game makers, not game players, should retain control over the games
they make and how they end, a panel of developers said during a weekend
talk at the Smithsonian to celebrate the new exhibit, "The Art of Video
Games."
"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," said
Paul Barnett, senior creative director at BioWare-Mythic. "Just as J.K.
Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I
don't think she should be forced to make another one.
The comment came at the end of a nearly hour-long discussion about the future of video games which took place in front of a live audience at the Smithsonian American Art Museum last week.
Following the discussion, audience members were given the opportunity to ask questions. A man named Sam asked:
"What do you think of the whole idea where community has influence on
making game story like for Paul with BioWare ...," he asked, referring
to the "current fiasco going on right now with the Mass Effect ending."
Some gamers are upset over what they believe was an unsatisfying
ending to the Mass Effect trilogy, a series that promised gamers an
ending that was in part shaped by the choices they made over the course
of playing the three titles.
Barnett's response was met with loud applause that overwhelmed Sam's response.
When the applause died down Ken Levine, founder of Irrational Games,
added that he wanted to address the question as well because, Levine
said, "I think this is an important moment."
"I think if those people got what they wanted and (BioWare) wrote
their ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling
they got because ... they didn't really create it," he said. "I think
this whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don't think
anyone would get what they wanted if that happened."

So what does everyone think? Will the ending not be 'true' if it is engineered by the fans? If so, how is that different than the feedback loop Bioware used to write subsequent games, such as including Tali and Garrus as romance options?

This is what's confusing me. Are WE trying to make a new ending or are we trying to allow Bioware to fix their ending?

I really don't want to be involved if WE are trying to make the ending. 

I think some people are going into excruciating detail about exactly what they want to happen, so some people believe that is our end.

agathokakological wrote...

The moment that art becomes commissioned art is when the artists lose supreme artistic license over the product.

Surely video games exist somewhere in between. You cannot justify this type of expense without guaranteeing an audience.

Modifié par anexanhume, 19 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[DarkSpider88]

J.K. has toyed with the idea of an 8th book in the series.

[Croakamancer]

Irrational Games? Are they still around?

And yeah, again, it's another guy going 'they're just ranting cause it's a sad ending', rather than looking up the actional reasoning behind the complaints People who like the endings, take note. Misunderstanding what we're saying is. not. helping.

If this guy was one of the ones who worked on Freedom Force, one of my fav IPs... shame on him

[Nykara]

Given that Mass Effect is a game - and games are supposed to be FUN. I honestly have no problems with a lot of player input going in to it. That's how most games go. MMO's do it all the time. It makes the community even MORE a part of something if they have a hand in shaping it.

[Mr Indivisible]

I agree with one point. If they change the ending, there is a huge risk of it feeling slapped together and unsatisfying.

More then anything, I wish that Mack and Casey could admit they shat the bed. The ending is almost universally reviled, (80%) and that future creators take note.

[The Angry One]

Irrational Games? The makers of Bio"Let's ripoff Fallout thematically and add in lots of misogyny"Shock?

Because I care what anybody from that outfit says.

[Luigitornado]

100% agree with him.

[Dark_Caduceus]

I pretty much agree. Which is why I'm less interested in changing the endings and more on holding the writers and developers to account for the terrible endings. Give me your reasons for the endings, give me your justifications, your feelings, your though process. "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE" doesn't cut it.