259 réponses à ce sujet

[Cosmar]

I haven't seen many people hating on Thane's death. Maybe I don't check in here often enough?

I mean a lot of people were sad that he was killed, but I wouldn't call that being "upset" about it. I mean, it's sad, a poor sick drell who is your friend gets stabbed by an evil assassin and dies. That's sad. I'm not sure what kind of person would go "Whoo that was awesome my BFF drell got stabbed to death!"

I enjoyed it, I thought it was well-done and appropriate, but it was still sad. But sad in a "good" way not in a bad way (such as Shepard shooting Mordin in the back)

[sydzilla]

It is nice to see that some people understand why a lot of fans are upset by the handling of Thane in ME3 if he was romanced in ME2. The reasons we're upset have been explained well several times in this thread.  Just to reiterate, here are some great points from earlier in this discussion.

RShara wrote...

the_red_one1223 wrote...

CGramn wrote...

This would probably be better addressed in the Protest Romanced Thane's treatment in ME3 thread.
Anyway, my wife romanced Thane in ME2, and I've been closely following her dismay at what happened and what is going on with the Thanemancers, and I guess I'll chip in with what seems to be the main problems here:

1) A romanced Thane is 95% the same as a friend or bromance Thane. There is one or two extra dialogue options for him, the rest is exactly the same as if he was not romanced.

2) His death may look cool and have weight in the circumstances, but his death makes no impact on anyone after the fact. When Mordin, Legion, or anyone else dies, everyone has something to say about it. When Thane dies, everyone is talking about how nice it is to have Kaiden/Ashley back on board. Thane is never mentioned or shown again for the rest of the game except when you kill Kai-Leng, which prompts the same response whether romanced or not.

3) Thane is the only character not to get a Codex entry at all.

4) Thane's character when romanced in ME2 is a very different character from a non-romanced Thane. He goes from being prepared for death without regrets, to genuine fear of dying because of the life he has found with Femshep and the life he wants to have with her. In ME3, no matter what you did, Thane is once again reserved to dying and your decisions have made no impact on his character.

EDIT: 5) Your continued romance with Thane does also not trigger the Paramour achievement, which is in itself a huge disservice to the Thanemancers.

There are other reasons as well, but like the Retake Mass Effect movement, I think Thane's "Better Romance" movement along with Jacob's same effort is often being thrown aside as "They just want a happy ending" when that's really not what the core issue is at all. It's again the same neglect and poor writing the ending suffers from, and one of the writers have admitted to the fact that romanced Thane got lost somewhere in the process.

THIS.

I can completely see how an unromanced Thane was well written and well received. From a friendship perspective I would be mostly pleased (the no mention of Thane from Shep or other characters after his death, no codex entry, and only former squadmate with no side mission disappointments would still stand). But I, and many others, did not play my game on a friendship path with Thane. I can understand in some people's game Thane's death and treatment in the story made sense, but I'm kinda baffled that some people can't reverse the situation and see how in a romanced game it makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone is asking for Thane's death and part in the story to be completely retconned, I'm glad that some people enjoyed the way he played out in their story. I 'm upset that I didn't get any different options with a romanced Thane. Even if he dies in the game I can't understand and was really let down that I couldn't get the paramour achievement or any meaningful content regarding his romance. I'm happy MaleShepards got to retain all their romance options, I'm happy Kaidan/Ashley romancers got their romances back, I'm happy Liara romancers were pleased, I'm unhappy that I didn't get the same choices for my romance and that the story arc I created in ME2 by romancing Thane didn't carry over and was kinda ignored. I KNEW he was dying in ME2 but I still got the choice to romance him and it was awesome. Why take that option away in ME3, death or no? Why make my choice to romance him have no impact on the conclusion to my Shepard's story?

Just trying to help some people understand why in my game Thane didn't "go out like a boss". He went out as if I never romanced him at all or as if the romance and the changes it made to Thane's character in ME2 were meaningless and that made it horribly disappointing, disjointed from a continuation perspective, and just all around puzzling and poorly done. We just want choices. Nobody is "fan girl crying that it's not all bunny rabbits and rainbows", we just want our game to make sense again, have our choices matter, and have some options. Thanks to the people on here that can see from another perspective and hopefully others will come to understand why we're all so upset.

[mnomaha]

@GabrielK...you can't look out the window in life support. The shutter is permanently closed.

[daboy042188]

yeah they nailed it on thane
question though, was he teaching the physical therapy class ashley was in or was he taking it?

[BDelacroix]

Can't help you there. Didn't have a problem with it.

[Isichar]

The Angry One wrote...

Also Kai Leng is a schmuck.

You must have missed the part about him having a sword.

[Valo_Soren]

Honestly if there had been an option to save him it would have betrayed Thane as a character, he has accepted his death long ago, and he was ready to die, if he didn't want to be saved and Shepard tried to force it on him it could have dire consequences.

[Thetri]

Thane's death was stupid. It made him look like a idiot. He ran at a guy holding a sword and tried to hit him with a pistol. Why didn't he just shoot him?

[sydzilla]

I agree with you that Thane was ready to accept his death if your relationship with him was friendly or distant, Valo, but in a romanced play through that's just not the case. His character progression went in a whole other direction if he was romanced. He was actually afraid to die and was not at peace at all with resigning to death.

See how it changes the story if you romanced him? It's a totally different scenario with different circumstances. So the options in a romanced play through should reflect that is what we're getting at.

[dices543]

I do have to add that Bioware knows how to kill off people. I was so upset when Mordin said he was going to handle the Genophage knowing that he would die, but the way he died was so cool. Went down singing.

Mordin was my fav ME character next to Shepard

[mnomaha]

@Thetri...I agree. Not to mention Shep and the squad just standing there derping.

[mnomaha]

dices543 wrote...

I do have to add that Bioware knows how to kill off people. I was so upset when Mordin said he was going to handle the Genophage knowing that he would die, but the way he died was so cool. Went down singing.

Mordin was my fav ME character next to Shepard

It was the singing that did me in...

[cogsandcurls]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Honestly if there had been an option to save him it would have betrayed Thane as a character, he has accepted his death long ago, and he was ready to die, if he didn't want to be saved and Shepard tried to force it on him it could have dire consequences.

....Yeah, if you romance him he's not ready to die at all. He's so scared of dying and ashamed of being afraid of it that he cries over it.

[AtreiyaN7]

EDIT: Hmm, did I already post in here...better check. Yep, I did! Well, I continue to believe that it was handled well and was a poignant death.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 avril 2012 - 12:24 .

[Billabong2011]

I agree completely, OP. His story arc would have been utterly compromised had he not died. I just wish we'd had a little more time with him before he met his end.

[Billabong2011]

sydzilla wrote...

I agree with you that Thane was ready to accept his death if your relationship with him was friendly or distant, Valo, but in a romanced play through that's just not the case. His character progression went in a whole other direction if he was romanced. He was actually afraid to die and was not at peace at all with resigning to death.

See how it changes the story if you romanced him? It's a totally different scenario with different circumstances. So the options in a romanced play through should reflect that is what we're getting at.

This makes a lot of sense, kudos. I agree.
EDIT: I am not a Thanemancer, hence my post just above this one. Though I must say, I think even if in a romance with Thane, he should still die, though his arc should have been handled very differently.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 01 avril 2012 - 12:25 .

[SNascimento]

I agree. His story arc was pretty good.

[sydzilla]

Billabong2011 wrote...

I agree completely, OP. His story arc would have been utterly compromised had he not died. I just wish we'd had a little more time with him before he met his end.

True enough in some cases, Billabong. For those that romanced him that's what we're speaking out about. Interactions with him, dialogue choices, and no romance inclusion destroyed and undid his romanced story arc. Not just because he died but all the things that changed about him when he was romanced were reverted and undone. 

And we can completely agree that more time with him in the game would be awesome! What a fantastic character, romanced or not.

[Thetri]

mnomaha wrote...

@Thetri...I agree. Not to mention Shep and the squad just standing there derping.

The squad was mesmorized by the pure awesomeness of the fight. I know I was lol.

[Billabong2011]

sydzilla wrote...

Billabong2011 wrote...

I agree completely, OP. His story arc would have been utterly compromised had he not died. I just wish we'd had a little more time with him before he met his end.

True enough in some cases, Billabong. For those that romanced him that's what we're speaking out about. Interactions with him, dialogue choices, and no romance inclusion destroyed and undid his romanced story arc. Not just because he died but all the things that changed about him when he was romanced were reverted and undone. 

And we can completely agree that more time with him in the game would be awesome! What a fantastic character, romanced or not.

I agree with you -- I amended my post before you replied based on your opinion 

[sydzilla]

Billabong2011 wrote...

sydzilla wrote...

Billabong2011 wrote...

I agree completely, OP. His story arc would have been utterly compromised had he not died. I just wish we'd had a little more time with him before he met his end.

True enough in some cases, Billabong. For those that romanced him that's what we're speaking out about. Interactions with him, dialogue choices, and no romance inclusion destroyed and undid his romanced story arc. Not just because he died but all the things that changed about him when he was romanced were reverted and undone. 

And we can completely agree that more time with him in the game would be awesome! What a fantastic character, romanced or not.

I agree with you -- I amended my post before you replied based on your opinion 

I didn't see that. Thank you very much, I appreciate the support. We all wanted certain, special things in ME3. I'm glad when some players got exactly what they wanted or thought at least the twists and the turns in certain story arcs were fantastic. I'm happy to support other players who want valid resolutions for some of their grievances as well. So it's really awesome when people concede that what you want isn't being an unreasonable delusional fan girl, lol. 

I don't want anyone's perfect game or choices to be taken away from them to make mine better, that's no way to be. I just wished for some certain options that weren't available to me for reasons I don't really understand and am voicing my opinion. So, yeah, thanks again for a supportive rather than dismissive voice.     

[Billabong2011]

sydzilla wrote...

Billabong2011 wrote...

sydzilla wrote...

Billabong2011 wrote...

I agree completely, OP. His story arc would have been utterly compromised had he not died. I just wish we'd had a little more time with him before he met his end.

True enough in some cases, Billabong. For those that romanced him that's what we're speaking out about. Interactions with him, dialogue choices, and no romance inclusion destroyed and undid his romanced story arc. Not just because he died but all the things that changed about him when he was romanced were reverted and undone. 

And we can completely agree that more time with him in the game would be awesome! What a fantastic character, romanced or not.

I agree with you -- I amended my post before you replied based on your opinion 

I didn't see that. Thank you very much, I appreciate the support. We all wanted certain, special things in ME3. I'm glad when some players got exactly what they wanted or thought at least the twists and the turns in certain story arcs were fantastic. I'm happy to support other players who want valid resolutions for some of their grievances as well. So it's really awesome when people concede that what you want isn't being an unreasonable delusional fan girl, lol. 

I don't want anyone's perfect game or choices to be taken away from them to make mine better, that's no way to be. I just wished for some certain options that weren't available to me for reasons I don't really understand and am voicing my opinion. So, yeah, thanks again for a supportive rather than dismissive voice.     

It's my pleasure! You made a very valid point that, upon reflecting on Thane's arc myself, made me realize that, yes, if the player engaged in a romance with him, that arc should have taken a very different turn, and, quite frankly, I think there should have been more development in the already-established gameplay now.

[sunnie7699]

Julia_xo wrote...

CGramn wrote...

This would probably be better addressed in the Protest Romanced Thane's treatment in ME3 thread.
Anyway, my wife romanced Thane in ME2, and I've been closely following her dismay at what happened and what is going on with the Thanemancers, and I guess I'll chip in with what seems to be the main problems here:

1) A romanced Thane is 95% the same as a friend or bromance Thane. There is one or two extra dialogue options for him, the rest is exactly the same as if he was not romanced.

2) His death may look cool and have weight in the circumstances, but his death makes no impact on anyone after the fact. When Mordin, Legion, or anyone else dies, everyone has something to say about it. When Thane dies, everyone is talking about how nice it is to have Kaiden/Ashley back on board. Thane is never mentioned or shown again for the rest of the game except when you kill Kai-Leng, which prompts the same response whether romanced or not.

3) Thane is the only character not to get a Codex entry at all.

4) Thane's character when romanced in ME2 is a very different character from a non-romanced Thane. He goes from being prepared for death without regrets, to genuine fear of dying because of the life he has found with Femshep and the life he wants to have with her. In ME3, no matter what you did, Thane is once again reserved to dying and your decisions have made no impact on his character.

EDIT: 5) Your continued romance with Thane does also not trigger the Paramour achievement, which is in itself a huge disservice to the Thanemancers.

There are other reasons as well, but like the Retake Mass Effect movement, I think Thane's "Better Romance" movement along with Jacob's same effort is often being thrown aside as "They just want a happy ending" when that's really not what the core issue is at all. It's again the same neglect and poor writing the ending suffers from, and one of the writers have admitted to the fact that romanced Thane got lost somewhere in the process.

KBomb wrote...
As a Shepard that was Thane's comrade and trusted friend, it was a perfect character death. I was one of the ones not wanting to see him die and was hoping for a miracle cure. However, I thought his death was well done.

As Thane's LI, it was the most ****** poor relationship ending ever. It's the exact same death scene. I was hardly expecting Shepard to lay prostrate at his death bed, but ffs,give some inspiring words of remembrance. Something, anything. There was nothing but the semi-conscience moniker “Siha” that felt tacked on
as an after thought. Shepard treated him coldly before going after Leng and she told Thane's son she was there only because Thane “helped” her kill a lot of bad guys, or some such unforgettable line that held no
affection at all. Poor and lazy handling of him, imo.

THANK YOU!!!  You've both hit the nail right on the head as to why Thane's death was a disappointment for those who romanced him. Which I did.

I am still bitter over the dismissive treatment Thane received from the Devs. He was a beloved character and a love interest. They completely trashed his romance arc. THAT is why people are upset.

It's not just that he dies, it's that Shepard acts like she doesn't care (even if she romanced him!)

All of this!

For all the people posting that Thane's death was epic and he deserved to die the way he did, here is a 'blow-by-blow' account of the fight scene by RShara. Shows that it was not so epic after all...

https://picasaweb.go...eVsCerealKiller

[sunnie7699]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Honestly if there had been an option to save him it would have betrayed Thane as a character, he has accepted his death long ago, and he was ready to die, if he didn't want to be saved and Shepard tried to force it on him it could have dire consequences.

This is the problem though, if he was romanced then he no longer accepted his death and he was afriad to die. His whole romance scene was depicting this at the end of ME2, so it didn't make sense that there WASN'T an option to save him if romanced at least, because it didn't fit in with the romanced-Thane story arc.

[PsyrenY]

Isichar wrote...

You must have missed the part about him having a sword.

Funny, so did Thane!

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.