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[usmack5]

RShara wrote...

the_red_one1223 wrote...

CGramn wrote...

This would probably be better addressed in the Protest Romanced Thane's treatment in ME3 thread.
Anyway, my wife romanced Thane in ME2, and I've been closely following her dismay at what happened and what is going on with the Thanemancers, and I guess I'll chip in with what seems to be the main problems here:

1) A romanced Thane is 95% the same as a friend or bromance Thane. There is one or two extra dialogue options for him, the rest is exactly the same as if he was not romanced.

2) His death may look cool and have weight in the circumstances, but his death makes no impact on anyone after the fact. When Mordin, Legion, or anyone else dies, everyone has something to say about it. When Thane dies, everyone is talking about how nice it is to have Kaiden/Ashley back on board. Thane is never mentioned or shown again for the rest of the game except when you kill Kai-Leng, which prompts the same response whether romanced or not.

3) Thane is the only character not to get a Codex entry at all.

4) Thane's character when romanced in ME2 is a very different character from a non-romanced Thane. He goes from being prepared for death without regrets, to genuine fear of dying because of the life he has found with Femshep and the life he wants to have with her. In ME3, no matter what you did, Thane is once again reserved to dying and your decisions have made no impact on his character.

EDIT: 5) Your continued romance with Thane does also not trigger the Paramour achievement, which is in itself a huge disservice to the Thanemancers.

There are other reasons as well, but like the Retake Mass Effect movement, I think Thane's "Better Romance" movement along with Jacob's same effort is often being thrown aside as "They just want a happy ending" when that's really not what the core issue is at all. It's again the same neglect and poor writing the ending suffers from, and one of the writers have admitted to the fact that romanced Thane got lost somewhere in the process.

THIS.

Pretty well said - I never looked at his cameo in that respect, particularly because I never romanced Thane. I totally understand why his character having such a small role that lacks dynamics would upset people. This is not a good sign. If Bioware has made so many misfires with the LIs in ME3, how can we expect an amended ending to provide closure? When the aspects that make up the ending, particularly the relationships and how they are resolved, are flawed, is seems it would be difficult to make the endings as fantastic and satisfying as we as loyal fans expect it to be...

[Wrathra]

I liked how they handled Thane in ME3, but i can understand why those who romanced him are upset.

[Julia_xo]

CGramn wrote...

This would probably be better addressed in the Protest Romanced Thane's treatment in ME3 thread.
Anyway, my wife romanced Thane in ME2, and I've been closely following her dismay at what happened and what is going on with the Thanemancers, and I guess I'll chip in with what seems to be the main problems here:

1) A romanced Thane is 95% the same as a friend or bromance Thane. There is one or two extra dialogue options for him, the rest is exactly the same as if he was not romanced.

2) His death may look cool and have weight in the circumstances, but his death makes no impact on anyone after the fact. When Mordin, Legion, or anyone else dies, everyone has something to say about it. When Thane dies, everyone is talking about how nice it is to have Kaiden/Ashley back on board. Thane is never mentioned or shown again for the rest of the game except when you kill Kai-Leng, which prompts the same response whether romanced or not.

3) Thane is the only character not to get a Codex entry at all.

4) Thane's character when romanced in ME2 is a very different character from a non-romanced Thane. He goes from being prepared for death without regrets, to genuine fear of dying because of the life he has found with Femshep and the life he wants to have with her. In ME3, no matter what you did, Thane is once again reserved to dying and your decisions have made no impact on his character.

EDIT: 5) Your continued romance with Thane does also not trigger the Paramour achievement, which is in itself a huge disservice to the Thanemancers.

There are other reasons as well, but like the Retake Mass Effect movement, I think Thane's "Better Romance" movement along with Jacob's same effort is often being thrown aside as "They just want a happy ending" when that's really not what the core issue is at all. It's again the same neglect and poor writing the ending suffers from, and one of the writers have admitted to the fact that romanced Thane got lost somewhere in the process.

KBomb wrote...
As a Shepard that was Thane's comrade and trusted friend, it was a perfect character death. I was one of the ones not wanting to see him die and was hoping for a miracle cure. However, I thought his death was well done.

As Thane's LI, it was the most ****** poor relationship ending ever. It's the exact same death scene. I was hardly expecting Shepard to lay prostrate at his death bed, but ffs,give some inspiring words of remembrance. Something, anything. There was nothing but the semi-conscience moniker “Siha” that felt tacked on
as an after thought. Shepard treated him coldly before going after Leng and she told Thane's son she was there only because Thane “helped” her kill a lot of bad guys, or some such unforgettable line that held no
affection at all. Poor and lazy handling of him, imo.

THANK YOU!!!  You've both hit the nail right on the head as to why Thane's death was a disappointment for those who romanced him. Which I did.

I am still bitter over the dismissive treatment Thane received from the Devs. He was a beloved character and a love interest. They completely trashed his romance arc. THAT is why people are upset.

It's not just that he dies, it's that Shepard acts like she doesn't care (even if she romanced him!)

Modifié par Julia_xo, 20 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[EvilChani]

CGramn wrote...

This would probably be better addressed in the Protest Romanced Thane's treatment in ME3 thread.
Anyway, my wife romanced Thane in ME2, and I've been closely following her dismay at what happened and what is going on with the Thanemancers, and I guess I'll chip in with what seems to be the main problems here:

1) A romanced Thane is 95% the same as a friend or bromance Thane. There is one or two extra dialogue options for him, the rest is exactly the same as if he was not romanced.

2) His death may look cool and have weight in the circumstances, but his death makes no impact on anyone after the fact. When Mordin, Legion, or anyone else dies, everyone has something to say about it. When Thane dies, everyone is talking about how nice it is to have Kaiden/Ashley back on board. Thane is never mentioned or shown again for the rest of the game except when you kill Kai-Leng, which prompts the same response whether romanced or not.

3) Thane is the only character not to get a Codex entry at all.

4) Thane's character when romanced in ME2 is a very different character from a non-romanced Thane. He goes from being prepared for death without regrets, to genuine fear of dying because of the life he has found with Femshep and the life he wants to have with her. In ME3, no matter what you did, Thane is once again reserved to dying and your decisions have made no impact on his character.

EDIT: 5) Your continued romance with Thane does also not trigger the Paramour achievement, which is in itself a huge disservice to the Thanemancers.

There are other reasons as well, but like the Retake Mass Effect movement, I think Thane's "Better Romance" movement along with Jacob's same effort is often being thrown aside as "They just want a happy ending" when that's really not what the core issue is at all. It's again the same neglect and poor writing the ending suffers from, and one of the writers have admitted to the fact that romanced Thane got lost somewhere in the process.

All of the above are true. Add on:

6.  We were teased more than once with a possible cure for Kepral's or, at the very least, a way to keep Thane alive and well longer, possibly until the cure was found. We knew the Hanar were working on it, got information from the Shadow Broker DLC that Thane was an excellent candidate for transplants, and, finally, word of medigel for the lungs. Were any of these pursued or were we given a choice to pursue them? Hell no. At the very least, a romanced Thane would've gone for the transplants since his entire attitude changed (as indicated in number 4). And that's just plain horse ****. 

7. If you romanced Kaidan *spits*, then he has the utter gall to "forgive" you for "cheating" with Thane. Does our Shepard get a chance to tell him off for this the way the male Shep tells off Ash? Nope. We can't tell him that Thane is ten times the man he will ever be and that it wasn't cheating because he wished our Shepard was freaking dead. Thane, again, is reduced in him importance, which just sucks. 

Basically, BioWare pissed all over the character, teased his fans with a possible future, then pissed on us for good measure. The Thane stuff was fine for those who didn't romance him or for the Shepards who didn't really care for him. For those that did, Thane's part was seriously lacking.

[Impulse and Compulse]

My playthrough of ME2 for ME3 involved some of the mistakes I'd made my first playthrough. I had let him die activating the doors for us, but didn't feel bad considering how I thought he might not even appear in the next game.

Then I saw Kirrahe bite Kai Leng's bullet, and read how Thane got killed....damn, I messed up.

[C Trayne]

thane is possibly my favorite squadmate from ME2... I loved his story, who he was, and in general just his character. That being said I didn't mind his death and honestly feel that ehy did him justice in his scene. The only thing I wish they had addressed directly is that if thane was healthy he would have won that fight only because that is what I like to believe... Thane is way to Bad **** to be beaten by mister cyber ninja

[billyzero]

"That was for Thane you son of a b...."

One of the BEST LINES EVER in one of the best renegade interrupts EVER!

To bad it was all rendered moot by a story ending that made every sacrifice meaningless.

[LilyasAvalon]

As a Thane fan myself, I actually did like the way he went down fighting. It just sucked I had, quite literally, 4 conversations with him before he kicked the bucket all of which had little differene whether you were friending or romancing him.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 20 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Sainta117 wrote...

First off, I have no intention of hating on Thane, or his many fans. Thane is a great character, but part of what makes him great is the pathos of his rapidly approaching death. He reminds me of John Wayne in the Shootist, or Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, a dying tough guy who wants to go out with his boots on in a good cause.

Thane's death is epic, and far better than wasting away over months and months as he coughs his life out. The man saves a councillor and holds off a cyborg assassin bare-handed while dying of a degenerative respiratory condition. I mean, how much better an end could he have? It seems to me that Thane's end is a fantastic one - why are people upset? Were his fans pulling for a miracle cure?

I am a Thane fan and romanced him in ME2, but I share your opinion. I think Thane had a good and meaningful death - that prayer with Kolyat was especially moving for me (and I was, for the umpteenth time in the game, crying because of it). I think a lot of people get very...invested in their LIs, so much so that they want miracles to happen in some cases and can't accept the reality that sometimes people you love can die. 

Although I was in the whole Cure for Thane Krios group, etc., I was always prepared for the possibility of his death. Would I have wanted him to survive if possible? Yes, but I also think it would have cheapened him as a character if BW had whipped up some sort of miraculous cure to Kepral's in such a short time.

[RunAway ItzJack]

his death was extremely well done! I shed manly tears when I realized he was praying for Shepard's soul.

[ryuasiu]

Sainta117 wrote...

First off, I have no intention of hating on Thane, or his many fans. Thane is a great character, but part of what makes him great is the pathos of his rapidly approaching death. He reminds me of John Wayne in the Shootist, or Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, a dying tough guy who wants to go out with his boots on in a good cause.

Thane's death is epic, and far better than wasting away over months and months as he coughs his life out. The man saves a councillor and holds off a cyborg assassin bare-handed while dying of a degenerative respiratory condition. I mean, how much better an end could he have? It seems to me that Thane's end is a fantastic one - why are people upset? Were his fans pulling for a miracle cure?

I guess for me I was hoping he would come back to earth with me and might go out saving lives on earth. He still went out a hero and proud that he did, I just wish he could have fought and gave his life for the bigger fight.

[blood-dodo]

It's known that he was eligible for a transplant some time ago, but opted out of it, because he didn't wish to continue on living anyway. However, if you romanced him, he expresses a newfound desire to live and fight. Adding on to that, in the Lair of the SB dlc we find that there is some kind of cutting edge procedure that could possibly fix his condition.
That made people (or me, at least) hopeful.

But then we see him in ME3, he has accepted his fate once more, there is no talk of a cure, there is no talk of hope (present in the previous game), and that was disappointing.

Sure he went out like a boss, but I know of a particular playthrough FemShep that would have given everything and anything to let him live.

[LancerGirl]

If Thane had lived, maybe he could've saved us from the endings...

[archanesoldier]

Because Thane was really well written and played tragic hero, and no matter how he would have died it was going to be sad.

[KBomb]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...


I am a Thane fan and romanced him in ME2, but I share your opinion. I think Thane had a good and meaningful death - that prayer with Kolyat was especially moving for me (and I was, for the umpteenth time in the game, crying because of it). I think a lot of people get very...invested in their LIs, so much so that they want miracles to happen in some cases and can't accept the reality that sometimes people you love can die. 

Although I was in the whole Cure for Thane Krios group, etc., I was always prepared for the possibility of his death. Would I have wanted him to survive if possible? Yes, but I also think it would have cheapened him as a character if BW had whipped up some sort of miraculous cure to Kepral's in such a short time.

 
Yeah, well I had no issues with his death. It was the aftermath that left me thinking they gave up on his character. The death scene for the friendship was the same for the romance. Completely ridiculous and lazy. It's as if they built this great death scene for him, went to lunch, came back and began focus on another character leaving Thane to fall into the Outbox.

Modifié par KBomb, 20 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[billyzero]

RunAway ItzJack wrote...

his death was extremely well done! I shed manly tears when I realized he was praying for Shepard's soul.

Have to admit that it gave me a lump in my throat.

How could the same people write that masterpiece and also write the ending??  My mind boogles.

Modifié par billyzero, 20 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[Julia_xo]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Sainta117 wrote...

First off, I have no intention of hating on Thane, or his many fans. Thane is a great character, but part of what makes him great is the pathos of his rapidly approaching death. He reminds me of John Wayne in the Shootist, or Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, a dying tough guy who wants to go out with his boots on in a good cause.

Thane's death is epic, and far better than wasting away over months and months as he coughs his life out. The man saves a councillor and holds off a cyborg assassin bare-handed while dying of a degenerative respiratory condition. I mean, how much better an end could he have? It seems to me that Thane's end is a fantastic one - why are people upset? Were his fans pulling for a miracle cure?

I am a Thane fan and romanced him in ME2, but I share your opinion. I think Thane had a good and meaningful death - that prayer with Kolyat was especially moving for me (and I was, for the umpteenth time in the game, crying because of it). I think a lot of people get very...invested in their LIs, so much so that they want miracles to happen in some cases and can't accept the reality that sometimes people you love can die. 

Although I was in the whole Cure for Thane Krios group, etc., I was always prepared for the possibility of his death. Would I have wanted him to survive if possible? Yes, but I also think it would have cheapened him as a character if BW had whipped up some sort of miraculous cure to Kepral's in such a short time.

Really?  The death scene for romanced Thane is exactly the same whether you romanced him or not. They put zero effort into making it different or special.

What did you think of romanced!Miranda's death scene? If you haven't seen it click here:

They actually acknowledged the romance during Miranda's death, which is optional. WHY couldn't they do something similar for Thane (whose death is a scripted event, not optional like Miranda's)!?

I just feel so cheated. WTF.

One of the Devs has even admitted they dropped the ball for not having anyone on the ship comment on Thane's death. It's shades of neglect all over the place. They really mishandled Thane, in my opinion. Also, you completely disregard the lung transplant which was a perfectly viable option to extend his life. No ~magical~ cure necessary. Not that it'd be any less believeable than some of the other stuff that happens in this game, but I digress.

Modifié par Julia_xo, 20 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[Xeyska]

The whole thing with Thane is just horrible writing, and handled poorly. Bad enough we only get one conversation with him before he dies, Thane's death is virtually the same compared to the romance version. Here is the friendship path. Even if he didn't have a cure, compared to Miranda's death scene [Romanced] to Thane's [Romanced] just pisses me off.

FemShep doesn't get to say "I love you," to Thane either. <.<


Edit: Ninja'd.

Modifié par Xeyska, 20 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[K_Tabris]

It was more of the fact that his romance was largely not recongnized, done terribly, and that Shepard acted the emotional robot at his death scene.

Other than that, his cameo was by far the best out of all the ME2 squadmates, with the exception of Miranda.

[TwelfthCrusader]

Thane was my favourite character from Mass Effect 2 so I was sad to see him go but they couldn't have done it any other way. If they had a put a cure in, it would have just been a cop out and even if it was sad at least he went out with a bang.

[Hudathan]

Who was asking for Thane to survive? The guy was a walking set-up-for-an-epic-death-scene character since the moment you met him.

[Julia_xo]

Hudathan wrote...

Who was asking for Thane to survive? The guy was a walking set-up-for-an-epic-death-scene character since the moment you met him.

Lots of people, actually. Fans created a "Cure Thane Campaign" banner and sent it to BioWare HQ. They hung it up in their office and drew attention to it on Facebook.

Add the fact that Thane's medical report in LotSB said he was eligible for a lung transplant (something that was never followed up on) and people are understandably upset.

[CheeseEnchilada]

When Shepard shows more emotion over the VS being injured than a romanced, dying Thane, there may be a problem. As has been stated, Thane's death as a friend is pretty awesome and a tearjerker. Thane's death if he was your LI is frustrating. Very little change in dialog, one talk before his death scene, and no Paramour achievement, complete with Garrus standing at the memorial that Thane's name was just added to and talking about whoever died on Virmire. No one acknowledges his death, and Shepard is hit on by Samantha, Diana, and possibly Kaidan directly afterwards, which gives a further impression that his romance didn't 'count' and you should try for these characters instead.

I personally wasn't looking for a 'miracle cure'. I was hoping for a treatment, and expecting him to die. While I'm happy from a friend perspective, they really dropped the ball with his romance, hence why people are upset.

[WarGriffin]

My only real problem is... Thane's Death pretty much overshadows Kai's intro... and any attempt to Make Kai look good or make him a threat is thrown out to Make thane look good in his last hurrah... and Kai never really gets a chance to recover from it... but then again I have a whole topic devoted to that XD


Thane's death was good... I think Mordin's was better but... yeah having the option to save Thane would kinda ruin it.

[Red Dust]

Thane went out like a pro. He couldn't have died better if I had killed him myself.