197 réponses à ce sujet

[Stevebo]

I don't get it, I respect that he and others enjoyed the ending and found it fulfilling. I feel the ending (if you call it that) serves a purpose only if they build on it.

The problem I have is everyone saying, "I made this decision and that decision" I.E Freeing the Geth. That's great and all but the way the endings go none of this will matter lol. Great! I helped James decide to join N7!! Oh crap, I chose the destroy ending and all the Mass Effect fields just blew up the galaxy.

It's those reasons I believe the indoctrination theory, but that said if that isn't the case and they don't pickup where they left off (Shepard getting up out of the debris) then what exactly was the point of any choices I made if they were only short term fixes? Perhaps we just need to be patient and it will all make sense in the long run, which I'm trying to be optimistic about, but I don't see how anyone can say "Yeah, that really wrapped up the ending for me!"

[October Sixth]

"I forged cooperation between the Krogan and the Turians. I’ve no idea if that’s a pre-scripted inevitability, or the result of my choices, and crucially I don’t care."

I think it's pretty clear this reviewer's perspective diverges too greatly from most of the frustrated players that they are essentially talking past one another.

[Cobra5]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a planet.

This is totally not the case.

It is extremely clear that (unless you have a low EMS score) the waves of force coming from the relays isn't destroying anything (unless you pick destroy, in which it is destroying the reapers). What happens in arrival is meaningless- we aren't crashing planet-sized asteroids into them.

And the destruction of the network does not doom the entire galaxy to starvation, wherever people got that silly idea. Even assuming the team that built the crucible doesn't make a new drive tech, the races have been surviving just fine without even FTL. We know nothing of support industry in the mass effect universe. For all we know, even depleted Earth can provide for the stranded fleets on its own, including the turians and the quarians (For example, the Citidel literally made food out of nothing- don't think for a second we are working on the same rules modern industry does)

If you want to color the ending as pessimistic, its your perogative to do so, but it isn't the ending telling you "everyone is dead".

Ninja Edit:

October Sixth wrote...

"I forged cooperation between the Krogan and the Turians. I’ve no idea if that’s a pre-scripted inevitability, or the result of my choices, and crucially I don’t care."

I think it's pretty clear this reviewer's perspective diverges too greatly from most of the frustrated players that they are essentially talking past one another.

 
I agree that a lot of people aren't on the same page with that, but the truth is if that's your complaint, its no different then any of the other mass effects, or any bioware game ever.

You could pick up or leave wrex, or kill him... in the end, Virmire played out the same way for every player and gets nuked. Clearly then the descision is meaningless then? Of course not. All choice in video games is an illusion of choice, by necessity. Like he said, unless you are playing minecraft or something, you are being told a story, not telling one, no matter how many illusions are put over you. ME3, and its ending, are no different then any of the other ME's.

Is that a problem for you? I guess I could see it as a valid complaint, but it never bothered me. What someone else felt about their ending has no effect on what I felt about mine, whether it was the same or different.

Modifié par Cobra5, 20 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[Tirigon]

Cobra5 wrote...

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a planet.

This is totally not the case.

It is.

[SpiderFan1217]

That was a good read. Made me think about the Catylist in a different way. I like how he appeared as the child ever more now. Also, I think a lot of people could benifit from reading this again:

"I’m okay with made up sci-fi nonsense in my made up sci-fi nonsense."

[Cobra5]

Tirigon wrote...

Cobra5 wrote...

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a planet.

This is totally not the case.

It is.

Nice come back, can't beat that logic.

[aberdash]

Cobra5 wrote...

Nice come back, can't beat that logic.

Go back and watch the ending.

edit: and if you dont want to I'll just tell you what happens in every ending.


1) Shepard dies
2) Mass relays explode killing everyone in the system
but its a different kind of explosion!
fine
3)All the races are now stranded on earth and will eventually starve or kill each other
4)Joker and your crew gets stranded on a planet.
Yup joker ****** out and flees the battle as does your crew.

Modifié par aberdash, 20 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Cucobr]

is this topic in a right session?

[Stevebo]

Cobra5 wrote...

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The
ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we
made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The
relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a
planet.

This is totally not the case.

It is
extremely clear that (unless you have a low EMS score) the waves of
force coming from the relays isn't destroying anything (unless you pick
destroy, in which it is destroying the reapers). What happens in arrival
is meaningless- we aren't crashing planet-sized asteroids into them.

And
the destruction of the network does not doom the entire galaxy to
starvation, wherever people got that silly idea. Even assuming the team
that built the crucible doesn't make a new drive tech, the races
have been surviving just fine without even FTL. We know nothing of
support industry in the mass effect universe. For all we know, even
depleted Earth can provide for the stranded fleets on its own, including
the turians and the quarians (For example, the Citidel literally made
food out of nothing- don't think for a second we are working on the same
rules modern industry does)

If you want to color the ending as
pessimistic, its your perogative to do so, but it isn't the ending
telling you "everyone is dead".

Ninja Edit:

October Sixth wrote...

"I forged cooperation between the Krogan and the Turians. I’ve no idea if that’s a pre-scripted inevitability, or the result of my choices, and crucially I don’t care."

I
think it's pretty clear this reviewer's perspective diverges too
greatly from most of the frustrated players that they are essentially
talking past one another.

 
I agree that a lot of
people aren't on the same page with that, but the truth is if that's
your complaint, its no different then any of the other mass effects, or
any bioware game ever.

You could pick up or leave wrex, or kill
him... in the end, Virmire played out the same way for every player and
gets nuked. Clearly then the descision is meaningless then? Of course
not. All choice in video games is an illusion of choice, by necessity.
Like he said, unless you are playing minecraft or something, you are
being told a story, not telling one, no matter how many illusions are put over you. ME3, and its ending, are no different then any of the other ME's.

Is
that a problem for you? I guess I could see it as a valid complaint,
but it never bothered me. What someone else felt about their ending has
no effect on what I felt about mine, whether it was the same or
different.

But it doesn't show you what the force  from the Relays was doing. It only shows what the initial blast from the
crucibal did.  Meteor or no meteor their own "lore" was that destroying a Mass Relay would doom civilizations around it.  So you're left to  assume

Just like the fact that the crew of the Normandy including my LI Liara and bff garrus, who I took with me on the final push, are all the sudden escaping the blast (from the Mass Relays mind you)  that causes their ship to crash land on an unknown planet.....

Modifié par Stevebo, 20 mars 2012 - 12:35 .

[Midarenkov]

This reviewer is happy in his ignorance. Why shatter it?

[Cobra5]

Stevebo wrote...


But it doesn't show you what the force
from the Relays was doing. It only shows what the initial blast from the
crucibal did.  Meteor or no meteor their own "lore" was that destroying
a Mass Relay would doom civilizations around it.  So you're left to
assume, just like the fact that the crew of the Normandy including my LI
Liara and bff garrus, who I took with me on the final push, are all the
sudden escaping the blast (from the Mass Relays mind you)  that causes
their ship to crash land on an unknown planet.....

One time at work, I popped a halogen lightbulb a few minutes after I turned it on. Clearly, every time electricity runs through a lightbulb for more then a few minutes, then, it pops.

But of course that's not the case. I did something I wasn't supposed to, and touched the bulb. The hand oil was enough to cause a hotspot on the bulb, causing it to pop.

So yes, with something as powerful as a relay, I would assume it would explode if you do something you're not supposed to (crash a "small planet" into it), but to say it will explode no matter what, is- as you say yourself- an assumption. Which is the point of my post.

Hackett also explains the crucible sends its power through the relay network so yes, we do know it is having the same effect as the initial blast. Its the whole point of the crucible and what made it a powerful weapon.

I agree the normandy was stupid. I have no idea what they were trying to imply with that scene and it made no sense.

[Arkitekt]

So you people are unable to imagine how the universe of Mass Effect evolves from the endings, because you cannot picture how the destruction of the mass relays won't destroy the systems they harbor?

Then I guess that BioWare was wrong by putting so much faith in the mental abilities of their players after all. To me, it is abundantly clear that the systems do *not* get destroyed (if they were, then there would not have been any difference between the ending that destroys the Earth and all the others, now would there?), and all that happens is that the whole galaxy has to fix its problems the hard way. Well tough luck. Why is this such a bad ending? Multiple generations will work harder to rebuild the relay networks, their own way. They will make their own mistakes, eventually there will be another great galactic civilization, built on their own by their own.

All the Reaper artifacts will be relics of a daunted past where monsters nurtured all the new civilizations into their technologies so they could be culled into their "solution".

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

[aberdash]

Arkitekt wrote...

So you people are unable to imagine how the universe of Mass Effect evolves from the endings, because you cannot picture how the destruction of the mass relays won't destroy the systems they harbor?

Then I guess that BioWare was wrong by putting so much faith in the mental abilities of their players after all. To me, it is abundantly clear that the systems do *not* get destroyed (if they were, then there would not have been any difference between the ending that destroys the Earth and all the others, now would there?), and all that happens is that the whole galaxy has to fix its problems the hard way. Well tough luck. Why is this such a bad ending? Multiple generations will work harder to rebuild the relay networks, their own way. They will make their own mistakes, eventually there will be another great galactic civilization, built on their own by their own.

All the Reaper artifacts will be relics of a daunted past where monsters nurtured all the new civilizations into their technologies so they could be culled into their "solution".

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

The explosions span multiple systems and if they don't destroy the system it goes against the already established lore.

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

Yea, I just skimmed and was proven right in my suspicion that he is dead wrong.

I'm baffled by the assumption that you he is wrong when you didn't read what he said.

[Elite Midget]

I suppose someone had to see flowers where the rest saw rot.

[Arkitekt]

aberdash wrote...

Cobra5 wrote...

Nice come back, can't beat that logic.

Go back and watch the ending.

edit: and if you dont want to I'll just tell you what happens in every ending.


1) Shepard dies

Doesn't seem like this happens in every ending!

2) Mass relays explode killing everyone in the system
but its a different kind of explosion!
fine

So you refute your own point 2? OK Fine.

3)All the races are now stranded on earth and will eventually starve or kill each other

Fearmongerer! You cannot possibly know this, and I find it astonishing how this "theory" even survived this long.

4)Joker and your crew gets stranded on a planet.

Yes. We do not know for how long though.

Yup joker ****** out and flees the battle as does your crew.

We do not know what happened there. Massive "Plot Hole", but until we know we cannot say anything. Of course you are entitled to distrust your own companions. If I were Shepard I wouldn't distrust their motives at all.

[kbct]

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

[Arkitekt]

aberdash wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

So you people are unable to imagine how the universe of Mass Effect evolves from the endings, because you cannot picture how the destruction of the mass relays won't destroy the systems they harbor?

Then I guess that BioWare was wrong by putting so much faith in the mental abilities of their players after all. To me, it is abundantly clear that the systems do *not* get destroyed (if they were, then there would not have been any difference between the ending that destroys the Earth and all the others, now would there?), and all that happens is that the whole galaxy has to fix its problems the hard way. Well tough luck. Why is this such a bad ending? Multiple generations will work harder to rebuild the relay networks, their own way. They will make their own mistakes, eventually there will be another great galactic civilization, built on their own by their own.

All the Reaper artifacts will be relics of a daunted past where monsters nurtured all the new civilizations into their technologies so they could be culled into their "solution".

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

The explosions span multiple systems and if they don't destroy the system it goes against the already established lore.

There is no lore that establishes that when a mass relay is overloaded by the Crucible it *must* explode the system it is harbored in. That's mere invention on your part, one which is so easily disproven by the way the endings are written that it baffles me people still cling to it. Of course, if one only wants to have rethorical bullets, then I understand, which is the only explanation here.

[Faust1979]

the game provides enough closure to the trilogy while leaving things open for future instalments it works well

[Arkitekt]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

Try to read what I wrote before jumping the gun. I wasn't talking about the way the endings unfolded for us players. I am talking about the endings as *plot* are not "bad endings", in the sense of doomed endings. Capisce now?

[aberdash]

@Arkitekt

1) Yes Shepard dies. That short little clip of someone in N7 armor taking a breath just meant that not even bioware could commit to the ending.
2)I didn't refute the claim.
3)Fearmongerer? ALL of the races military forces were at earth. Earth most likely cant even support humans and even if it could support them 2 of the races there couldn't eat the food.

Modifié par aberdash, 20 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[aberdash]

Arkitekt wrote...

There is no lore that establishes that when a mass relay is overloaded by the Crucible it *must* explode the system it is harbored in. That's mere invention on your part, one which is so easily disproven by the way the endings are written that it baffles me people still cling to it. Of course, if one only wants to have rethorical bullets, then I understand, which is the only explanation here.

Go back and look at the explosions in the clip of the chain reaction. You are grasping at straws if you think a system has a snowballs chance in hell of coming out of that unscathed.

[Savber100]

RPS?

Count me VERY surprised...!

One of the best sites on reviews for PC gaming etc.

[Cobra5]

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

Only 2% (of people who felt the need to go onto the BSN forums and post in a poll about it) like the ending as-is.

That is the issue with self-selecting surveys.

I'll try to respond to more posts but the thread is moving quickly for me, sorry. I don't mean to cherry-pick the easy arguments.

[Cucobr]

3)All the races are now stranded on earth and will eventually starve or kill each other

Fearmongerer! You cannot possibly know this, and I find it astonishing how this "theory" even survived this long.

actually he is correct.

The human race expanded Beyond Solar System.
There are not enough resources for only the human race. Imagine the other billions of aliens on earth?
starving is the best of scenarios. It can happen a war for food.
The quarians would be the first to die because they are fed in a different way.
Even traveling at FTL, they could not get to their planets.
So everybody is condemned to death, either by food or by war.