197 réponses à ce sujet

[The Razman]

Savber100 wrote...

RPS?

Count me VERY surprised...!

One of the best sites on reviews for PC gaming etc.

They also had an article earlier in the week saying everything that was wrong with the ending (written by a different reviewer). Some of the RPS staff like the ending, some hate it. Very much like the fanbase, really.

[Cobra5]

aberdash wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

There is no lore that establishes that when a mass relay is overloaded by the Crucible it *must* explode the system it is harbored in. That's mere invention on your part, one which is so easily disproven by the way the endings are written that it baffles me people still cling to it. Of course, if one only wants to have rethorical bullets, then I understand, which is the only explanation here.

Go back and look at the explosions in the clip of the chain reaction. You are grasping at straws if you think a system has a snowballs chance in hell of coming out of that unscathed.

Just rewatched it, nothing in the ending indicates the blast is destroying any systems.

In fact, the explosion itself doesn't seem to be any bigger then the relay, only the wave of force, which are shown earlier in the ending (assuming you have enough EMS) doesn't hurt anyone.

[Arkitekt]

aberdash wrote...

@Arkitekt

1) Yes Shepard dies. That short little clip of someone in N7 armor taking a breath just meant that not even bioware could commit to the ending.

What it means is that they do not think Shepard died. However you, a guy that did not write Mass Effect, knows better than they do. Riight.

3)Fearmongerer? ALL of the races military forces were at earth. Earth most likely cant even support humans and even if it could support them 2 of the races there couldn't eat the food.

Race Military force =/= whole race. Earth is down several billion people. That's a lot of less food needed.Clearly, the army is not "billions". Perhaps hundreds of thousands. Millions? Tops. 2 races cannot eat the food you say? Well, technology may yet disprove you. HOWEVER, even if true, this is clearly not the case for everyone, and also every single soldier that jumped into the sol node jumped KNOWINGLY he would probably die.

So if they died, they didn't die in vain. They saved their loved ones back in the systems they were trapped in. Some races get it worse than others? Well, tough luck. I still consider it a "good ending" - better free and independent from reaper tech than nanny-fed by it.

[kbct]

Cobra5 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

Only 2% (of people who felt the need to go onto the BSN forums and post in a poll about it) like the ending as-is.

That is the issue with self-selecting surveys.

I'll try to respond to more posts but the thread is moving quickly for me, sorry. I don't mean to cherry-pick the easy arguments.

Even if the poll is self-selecting, it has predictive power. 60K votes is no small sample. However, 2% is a tiny percentage. Besides, there is corroborating evidence all over the internet.

Any evidence anywhere that the majority liked the ending? No.

[Arkitekt]

aberdash wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

There is no lore that establishes that when a mass relay is overloaded by the Crucible it *must* explode the system it is harbored in. That's mere invention on your part, one which is so easily disproven by the way the endings are written that it baffles me people still cling to it. Of course, if one only wants to have rethorical bullets, then I understand, which is the only explanation here.

Go back and look at the explosions in the clip of the chain reaction. You are grasping at straws if you think a system has a snowballs chance in hell of coming out of that unscathed.

*I'm* grasping at straws? Please. Look at the frakkin mirror.

[Rafficus III]

I enjoyed the article, it was humorous and was truthful. It is incredibly true that all of your choices do have a direct impact and consequence on the finale as it can total up to the ending. So the lack of choice and consequence argument is not valid and thus becomes the argument of whether the ripples of our actions met our expectations. To some it fell flat. ME3 was amazing for me. I enjoyed every bit of the game. Would I have loved to find out if my Shep had spent the rest of his days with Ash? Yes, yes I so desperately wanted to. However, at the same time I can't help but shake the fact this game is marvelous without my demands. I disagree with the poll circulating on this forum as it sets fans up in a position to vote against the ending by calling for their own unique ending. The creator of the poll, to my knowledge, left it vague as to how such a better ending would be produced and the direction Bioware would take. Why wasn't an option implemented that said the ending was "good, but more closure would be desired"? Why was terms like "sucks" thrown in as option one calling for a brighter ending? I want to participate in the poll, but I can't help but shake how biased and misleading it is.

[kbct]

Arkitekt wrote...

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

Try to read what I wrote before jumping the gun. I wasn't talking about the way the endings unfolded for us players. I am talking about the endings as *plot* are not "bad endings", in the sense of doomed endings. Capisce now?

The hallucination theory is another imaginative theory. There will always be ways to imagine an ending that squares the circle.

I don't know if that's what the customers want to do though.

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

Cobra5 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Only a utter unimaginative person would find this ending a "bad one".

Only 2% like the ending as-is:

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If you want to understand why people think the ending is bad, you only have to look at the 1000+ fan reviews on this site, the 1000+ reviews on Amazon, or the 1000+ reviews on Metacritic.

Only 2% (of people who felt the need to go onto the BSN forums and post in a poll about it) like the ending as-is.

That is the issue with self-selecting surveys.

I'll try to respond to more posts but the thread is moving quickly for me, sorry. I don't mean to cherry-pick the easy arguments.

Even if the poll is self-selecting, it has predictive power. 60K votes is no small sample. However, 2% is a tiny percentage. Besides, there is corroborating evidence all over the internet.

Any evidence anywhere that the majority liked the ending? No.

There's other polls which have much higher figures than 2%. Still not a majority, but higher than 2%. There's also a poll which gets passed round here which asks "Were you satisfied with Mass Effect 3?" ... with 26% saying yes.

There's really no reason to be quoting such an informal poll as if it had factual weight.

[aberdash]

Cobra5 wrote...

Just rewatched it, nothing in the ending indicates the blast is destroying any systems.

In fact, the explosion itself doesn't seem to be any bigger then the relay, only the wave of force, which are shown earlier in the ending (assuming you have enough EMS) doesn't hurt anyone.

In space there is no "wave of force". That is energy that would likely mess up anything in its way.

Arkitekt wrote...

no u

okay

Modifié par aberdash, 20 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[Cobra5]

Cucobr wrote...

actually he is correct.

The human race expanded Beyond Solar System.
There are not enough resources for only the human race. Imagine the other billions of aliens on earth?
starving is the best of scenarios. It can happen a war for food.
The quarians would be the first to die because they are fed in a different way.
Even traveling at FTL, they could not get to their planets.
So everybody is condemned to death, either by food or by war.

The human race expanded Beyond Solar System. 
And most of these colonies were shown to be self-sufficient.

There are not enough resources for only the human race.
Source?

starving is the best of scenarios. It can happen a war for food. 
As already said we know nothing about the support industries of the mass effect universe. The Citidel fed its massive population by literally making food out of nothing, and nobody seemed to care then.

A war is real possibility and one of the interesting facets of the ending. The people came together to defeat a threat, will that alliance hold now that the threat is gone? This is an aspect I like, not hate. I think they will. Given wrex's leadership, the geth and quarians peace, and etc... I think we've shown, "there is a better way." I guess it depends on the choices you've made though (Gasp).

The quarians would be the first to die because they are fed in a different way. 
And the turians, don't forget. Again assuming that, you know, all those scientists and engineers- the best that have ever lived, all working together, that just developed and built the crucible together- don't come up with a solution, and assuming their fleet- which they have lived on just fine for 300 years- can't sustain then any more. AND all the other people that are going to help rebuild the infrastructure just decide not to support the turians and the quarians. Then sure.

Even traveling at FTL, they could not get to their planets. 
With their current ships it is physically possible, although too difficult to be done. Now that relays are gone, I'm assuming that after the immediate concern of rebuilding and survival is at least handled, working on either longer-range FTL (which is already exists) or a new drive tech or longer-range ships would be the new focus of all those races that just worked together to defeat technological gods. And going back to their homeworlds is not really a big deal anyway- they are in no better condition then earth, and colonizing the surounding systems seems like a more feasable idea anyway.

So everybody is condemned to death, either by food or by war. 
False.

[Arkitekt]

Jesus Christ aberdash, you are clueless. The endings are clearly wrote with the mass relays not exploding its systems. You chose to believe otherwise, I won't defuse your religious belief. As an atheist, I'm quite fed up of trying to untangle the irrational out of the believers.

[Cobra5]

aberdash wrote...

Cobra5 wrote...

Just rewatched it, nothing in the ending indicates the blast is destroying any systems.

In fact, the explosion itself doesn't seem to be any bigger then the relay, only the wave of force, which are shown earlier in the ending (assuming you have enough EMS) doesn't hurt anyone.

In space there is no "wave of force". That is energy that would likely mess up anything in its way.

So the wave of force that comes out of the crucible? And shuts off the reapers? It wasn't real?

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...

kbct wrote...

Even if the poll is self-selecting, it has predictive power. 60K votes is no small sample. However, 2% is a tiny percentage. Besides, there is corroborating evidence all over the internet.

Any evidence anywhere that the majority liked the ending? No.

There's other polls which have much higher figures than 2%. Still not a majority, but higher than 2%. There's also a poll which gets passed round here which asks "Were you satisfied with Mass Effect 3?" ... with 26% saying yes.

There's really no reason to be quoting such an informal poll as if it had factual weight.

It has statistical significance and predictive power. Multiple statistics experts on this forum agree. You choose not to believe it.

I agree there are other polls, but noooone are that great. Nooone show a majority. And nooone have a 60K+ sample size.

Besides, 80% should like the ending, not 2% and not 20%.

[daguest]

He spend almost 2/3 of the article saying how the rest of the game/me games is cool. He is missing the point on it. We know our consequences matter in ME3 (except the end), and it's not our point.
Also, he compare the ME3 ending with Contact ending. I thought about it myself. The point is, Contact earned, even if the movie ended with and overall average review, bad critics from a lot of people for his "deus ex machina" ending, and also for his science/religion debate. A debate described as "preachy" from the Washington Post. I remember a reccuring joke about the ending, and how the alien appear as human to avoid scaring the human. As you can see, it's not that far from ME3 ending, especially the ghost kid.
As a personal note, I'm always a bit sad when a movie/game/book involve some kind of god in the end to explain something. IRL, even if you believe in god, he never appear out of nowhere to explain something to a hero. That's why it's call "faith".
And finally, he didn't say a word about the plot holes.

It's a respectful article, even if I disaprove what he say. At least he doesn't say we are "entitled brats" and "**** YOU", as another article said.

[aberdash]

Cobra5 wrote...

The human race expanded Beyond Solar System. 
And most of these colonies were shown to be self-sufficient.

There are not enough resources for only the human race.
Source?

starving is the best of scenarios. It can happen a war for food. 
As
already said we know nothing about the support industries of the mass
effect universe. The Citidel fed its massive population by literally
making food out of nothing, and nobody seemed to care then.

A war
is real possibility and one of the interesting facets of the ending.
The people came together to defeat a threat, will that alliance hold now
that the threat is gone? This is an aspect I like, not hate. I think
they will. Given wrex's leadership, the geth and quarians peace, and
etc... I think we've shown, "there is a better way." I guess it depends
on the choices you've made though (Gasp).

The quarians would be the first to die because they are fed in a different way. 
And
the turians, don't forget. Again assuming that, you know, all those
scientists and engineers- the best that have ever lived, all working
together, that just developed and built the crucible together- don't
come up with a solution, and assuming their fleet- which they have lived
on just fine for 300 years- can't sustain then any more. AND all the
other people that are going to help rebuild the infrastructure just
decide not to support the turians and the quarians. Then sure.

Even traveling at FTL, they could not get to their planets. 
With
their current ships it is physically possible, although too difficult
to be done. Now that relays are gone, I'm assuming that after the
immediate concern of rebuilding and survival is at least handled,
working on either longer-range FTL (which is already exists) or a new
drive tech or longer-range ships would be the new focus of all those
races that just worked together to defeat technological gods. And going
back to their homeworlds is not really a big deal anyway- they are in no
better condition then earth, and colonizing the surounding systems
seems like a more feasable idea anyway.

So everybody is condemned to death, either by food or by war. 
False.

Arkitekt wrote...

Jesus Christ aberdash, you are clueless. The endings are clearly wrote with the mass relays not exploding its systems. You chose to believe otherwise, I won't defuse your religious belief. As an atheist, I'm quite fed up of trying to untangle the irrational out of the believers.

I can just see these people rocking back and forth in a corner whispering "its not a terrible ending".

[Gibb_Shepard]

What a poor article.

He misses the point, and harps on about how the whole game is a conclusion, and not the ending. He doesn't address the plot holes and inconsistencies. I'm quite sure this article was just made for site traffic, and that the author really doesn't believe what he wrote.

[aberdash]

Cobra5 wrote...

So the wave of force that comes out of the crucible? And shuts off the reapers? It wasn't real?

Its a wave of charged particles if that is what you mean. But a "wave of force" like what happens on earth when something explodes does not happen in space.

[UltraBoy360]

Whilst I totally support people's right to criticise the ending and am saddened by how upset they clearly made many people - I wasn't one of those people. Like the author of this article, I totally and utterly felt my choices mattered throughout the trilogy - they matter the second I make them as they are a reflection of who my Shepard is and how I chose to role-play him. If I had never encountered the Rachni Queen again, the choice would have still had impact as if reflect the Shepard I have chosen to play.

I pretty much agree every word with the writer - and his point is demonstrated even more to me by the fact that the Quarians were all dead (Tali!) in his game and he chose Synthesis as an ending. His and my games could not be more different. I didn't have a clue until I read the artcile that Tali COULD die, let alone the whole of the Quarian race. This is choice and consequence (for me).

Again for my game Shepard is alive on a devastated Earth - there's to reason he can't lead a project to eventually restore interstellar travel and reunite Wrex with Eve, get Tali home etc. Sure, this is head-cannon stuff, but I have an imagination as do millions of players, as the tens of thousands of fan-fiction writers demonstrate. I don't need post-credit title cards to do this for me. I agree that that would be a little tacky.

That said - WTF with the Normandy on that planet? THAT I could have done without and am stuggling to head canon All the rest - I loved.

[TK EL_]

The endings are so filled with plot holes and contradictions to the established lore that it is an insult to the series not to be bothered by them.

[Texhnolyze101]

I have no idea who this guy is nor do i care.

[Rafficus III]

Arkitekt wrote...

You chose to believe otherwise, I won't defuse your religious belief. As an atheist, I'm quite fed up of trying to untangle the irrational out of the believers.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but why does you being an atheist even matter on a discussion about ME3? And why would it even matter if the other poster believed in a divine being when the thread was not even intended to touch base on spiritual faith? It just seems out of place being in a thread about a video game and all. 

[Cobra5]

aberdash wrote...
I can just see these people rocking back and forth in a corner whispering "its not a terrible ending".

Nice point, you are starting to change my mind!

aberdash wrote...

Cobra5 wrote...

So the wave of force that comes out of the crucible? And shuts off the reapers? It wasn't real?

Its a wave of charged particles if that is what you mean. But a "wave of force" like what happens on earth when something explodes does not happen in space.

Ok. You are arguing semantics.

You can call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that nothing in the ending is implying the wave of force "charged particles" isn't wiping out star systems.

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

The Razman wrote...

kbct wrote...

Even if the poll is self-selecting, it has predictive power. 60K votes is no small sample. However, 2% is a tiny percentage. Besides, there is corroborating evidence all over the internet.

Any evidence anywhere that the majority liked the ending? No.

There's other polls which have much higher figures than 2%. Still not a majority, but higher than 2%. There's also a poll which gets passed round here which asks "Were you satisfied with Mass Effect 3?" ... with 26% saying yes.

There's really no reason to be quoting such an informal poll as if it had factual weight.

It has statistical significance and predictive power. Multiple statistics experts on this forum agree. You choose not to believe it.

I agree there are other polls, but noooone are that great. Nooone show a majority. And nooone have a 60K+ sample size.

Besides, 80% should like the ending, not 2% and not 20%.

True, none are that great. There are quite a few out there though ... and all of them have better figures than 2%.

Which begs the question of why you insist on going round the forums posting the 2% one as if it was fact, despite it being obviously biased and erroneous. I'd prefer you didn't quote "statistics experts" while simultaneously exhibiting observer bias that even the most amateur statisitician would shake their head at.

(That's my rant about people trying to use ridiculously biased polls to belittle anyone who likes the endings. Moving on.)

[kbct]

Cobra5 wrote...

aberdash wrote...
I can just see these people rocking back and forth in a corner whispering "its not a terrible ending".

Nice point, you are starting to change my mind!

Nothing will change your mind. This is a collective monologue. Only a neutral opinion can be swayed.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Arkitekt, I've been trying to tell people the same exact thing for days now.

It's futile here. It just is. If you don't toe the "majority" line, you get attacked and mocked and shunned. Clearly, if you just look at it with an open mind, everything you've said is true. But most of these people already made up their minds even before the leaked script came out, and there's no possible way you can change them

It's like banging your head against a brick wall repeatedly. It really is.