197 réponses à ce sujet

[Saintthanksgiving]

I agree with this article in a way.

99 percent of Mass Effect 3 might have been the greatest game I've played in a long while.

I have plenty of comments about things I'd do differently, characters I would have given more attention to, nitpicks about story decisions... but up until the last ten minutes of ME3 I was definitely satisfied with this conclusion to the series.

There were times that this game made me feel like a kid watching star wars for the first time, and thats something Bioware should be proud of.

but sweet Jesus that ending was weak.

The conversation with the Illusive man was anticlimactic, but I thought it was a forgivable hiccup in an otherwise great story. I was all set to sit with Anderson and watch a series of cutscenes showing how the war ended up... It really wouldn't take much to satisfy me from that point on.

I'm just glad Anderson didnt live to see what happened next.

The author of the article is right to point out the major accomplishments of the ME Franchise, and the fantastic game that ME3 is (short of the ending). I think he goes to far to excuse the ending completely though.

Those last ten minutes were the last ten minutes of Commander Shepard's life, and he deserved better.

[He4vyMet4l]

The explosion from the mass relays crashed the Normandy. No matter how you look at it, Joker barely managed to outrun the shockwave and the Normandy went down because the shockwave hit the tail.

What happened to all the ships that were stationed around earth? They were immune?

The author has nothing against bad endings in general, and neither do most of us. But all of the endings are bad for everyone.

[voteDC]

That article is a good read but to be honest it doesn't read as if he actually agree with the points but is just playing devils advocate.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Interesting read. Though I don't fully agree with the author.

*spoiler warning*

I don't think the fact that the endings left a lot to be desired is the end of the world, but what does bug me is that Shepard is seeing the catalyst as an image clearly lifted from his mind, while being in the midst of reapers who have shown, time and again, to have successfully influenced and deceived the minds of anyone they came in contact with.

So why on EARTH should my shepard have believed anything he heard the "catalyst" say?

[M2S SOLID JOSH]

thats the problem though. in a a game thats full of choices, u then make them irelevant and not only that but have several plotholes. if the mass relays r destroted u basically doomed everyone who helped u on earth in a way that made no sense. dont see y we couldnt get something along the lines of dragon age origins endings >_>....my honest opinion

[Banelash]

This link says what's right about ME3. The choices we made along the way were so gripping, I just couldn't put it down, but here lies the reason for so much hate of the ending. The buildup, the important war assets, the sacrifices along the way to the end, all my difficult choices will make a difference in the fight to the finish line, I thought to myself as the buildup climaxes to the ending. What we got was the same irregardless of whether you went to get as many troops as you can, whether you had sacrificed the geth or quarian, whether you saved miranda or the rachni queen. All these decisions you made that invoked emotions out of you, meant nothing in the end. If you had replayed like me, you will realise this even more so.

"An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."

ME lore helps the reader understand the tech behind everything from how normandy stays stealth to how the mass relay works. Yet all the lore didn't make any sense in the end. I do not want a happy ending like so many has said, what I want is a visual of what happened to everyone, not just shepard. What happened to the krogan since I cured their genophage? What happened when all the mass relay exploded?

Don't tell me that I have to speculate all these things? Speculation at the end is good, but too much speculation means the story was not conveyed well. Sure you want people to think what happened after the credits roll, but not closing some doors you opened along the journey. Even the matrix ending, where neo sacrificed himself so that the machines can reboot, had more closure than this game.

For a game that pride itself on "your decisions matters", it sure didn't at the end.

[Sal86]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing. I don't agree but it was interesting still.

A lot of his argument was based around the fact that the game influenced his final choice. Our choices influencing the game is kind of the USP of Bioware RPG's so that doesn't work for me.

Modifié par Sal86, 20 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Kronner]

The article is well written and I agree with most of it. However, that Normandy crash scene can not possibly be explained properly..it is so out of character for Joker/crew and makes no sense whatsoever that it effectively ruined the conclusion to ME3 for me.

[tomcplotts]

As someone who's written for years, albeit non fiction, my sense is that the problem lies primarily with the nature of the Reapers themselves. You have an uber-enemy tht *no* cycle has defeated before although each has come close enough to contribute to a solution with each loss. But for the Reapers to be a credible foe, they have to be capable of making your day completely suck. To get a "happy" ending would have greatly diminished the real nature of their threat. In short, your experience gets invalidated either way. If the Reapers are so beatable, then what was the sense of dread and urgency you've built up? If they are unbeatable, then what was the point of trying? As a writer, you're tring to find the trickiest of balances between these two logics, and that's what I saw when I look at the narrative of the game. It also explains the ending at least metaphysically. Just enough of a taste of both to try to walk the finest of lines. It was a difficult task, even for a good writer, much less an industrial writer like Walters.

Because there are tastes of both real victory and real defeat, the player is invariably going to see what he or she wants to see, which is precisely the point of the exercise. I don't like that, btw, but I understand it. ME 3 is going to provide a lesson for a lot of franchise writers and esigners out there for several years to come. Other games will benefit from this experience, as will we.

There will be more stories to love, and more characters to discover. That's the neat thing about fiction....

[Ghost Warrior]

Awesome article,of course I agree. I wish there were more people around here like John Walker.

[Kidd]

Choice and consequence in ME3's ending, dramatised by Jamie and his mother.

- Do you want a sofa in your room, Jamie?
- Yeah! I can use that sofa to lay down while I read my homework!
- What colour would you like your walls to be, Jamie?
- Dark blue, like the deep sea. Calming, yet adventurous!
- Would you like me to get you anything else?
- A table sounds nice. And some chairs. Of course, don't forget a bed. I have to sleep somewhere!
- Splendid, Jamie. I will arrange all those things for you. Are you happy you get choice in forming your room?
- Of course, mother!
- Great! I'll move all these things in tomorrow. The day after that, I'll make you choose between moving forever to your aunt's, your uncle's or your friend's while I sell our house. See how all the choice you had today change the day after tomorrow?
fin


Bottom line, yes, ME3 is an amazing game of choice and consequence in an extremely emotionally satisfying narrative with good game play, up until the last 5 minutes. I fail to see the article author's point - the house was sold any way.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 20 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Corbinus]

- Great! I'll move all these things in tomorrow. The day after that, I'll make you choose between moving forever to your aunt's, your uncle's or your friend's while I sell our house. See how all the choice you had today change the day after tomorrow?
fin
 I fail to see the article author's point - the house was sold any way.

Nailed it.

[Ghost Warrior]

Corbinus wrote...

- Great! I'll move all these things in tomorrow. The day after that, I'll make you choose between moving forever to your aunt's, your uncle's or your friend's while I sell our house. See how all the choice you had today change the day after tomorrow?
fin
 I fail to see the article author's point - the house was sold any way.

Nailed it.

No,it's a bad analogy. After the end of ME3 the fate of Rannoch,Tuchanka,the Citadel,state of many characters,and actually the fate of entire galaxy (might be turned to hybrids) rests on your decisions throughout the games.

The kid was decorating for himself in your analogy,and then the house got sold. Shepard was fighting for the entire galaxy.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 20 mars 2012 - 11:23 .

[Hsien]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Choice and consequence in ME3's ending, dramatised by Jamie and his mother.

- Do you want a sofa in your room, Jamie?
- Yeah! I can use that sofa to lay down while I read my homework!
- What colour would you like your walls to be, Jamie?
- Dark blue, like the deep sea. Calming, yet adventurous!
- Would you like me to get you anything else?
- A table sounds nice. And some chairs. Of course, don't forget a bed. I have to sleep somewhere!
- Splendid, Jamie. I will arrange all those things for you. Are you happy you get choice in forming your room?
- Of course, mother!
- Great! I'll move all these things in tomorrow. The day after that, I'll make you choose between moving forever to your aunt's, your uncle's or your friend's while I sell our house. See how all the choice you had today change the day after tomorrow?
fin


Bottom line, yes, ME3 is an amazing game of choice and consequence in an extremely emotionally satisfying narrative with good game play, up until the last 5 minutes. I fail to see the article author's point - the house was sold any way.

Excellent analogy

[Chaoswind]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a planet.

That is how life after ME3 continued, A new beginning, with nothing to show for it. Everything we did was meaningless with the ending we got.

Let me put it this way: Lets say you are having a chess match with someone you don't know. You two are having a blast, with brilliant moves from both of you. Eventually you lose.

You may try again, saying to yourself that was fun and one hell of a match.

Would you try again if you knew that person was the best chess player in the world, and you have no way in heaven to win?

Edit:

I must say I believe mose of us loved everything prior to the end. I myself think ME3 is the best gaming experience I ever had (probably alot more than gaming alone). So that article is missing the point imo.

Wrong analogy.

Is more like having a chess match with the undisputed champion of the world, you are losing, but you are making him work for it, you are having fun and to you victory is no longer important because everything till that point was awesome, then suddenly and out of no where. You see"God" appear and gives your opponent a heart attack, is so anticlimatic, winning was no longer your goal, but you did want to fight to the bitter end.


Oh and yeah "God" kills you afterwards... good times.

[vware]

Excellent article.

[Kidd]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

No,it's a bad analogy. After the end of ME3 the fate of Rannoch,Tuchanka,the Citadel,state of many characters,and actually the fate of entire galaxy (might be turned to hybrids) rests on your decisions throughout the games.

All those things you stated are part of the kid's old room. Just like the kid, we never get to see how that room ends up, all we see (and get closure about) is the fact we get to choose where the kid will live - which is a choice completely irrelevant of everything else up to that point.

We can surmise that some other person may or may not live in Jamie's room. Perhaps it's now the home of a business. Or perhaps Jamie's room is no longer around. We don't know. Jamie moved to one of three places and that's the only consequence and closure we know.

[fwc577]

The Razman wrote...

It seems people scramble whenever a new damning review or YouTube vid is posted about Mass Effect 3. So I feel somewhat obligated to post a brilliantly worded piece to the contrary.

John Walker's "What's Right With Mass Effect 3's Ending", on Rock Paper Shotgun.

Not looking for a flame-war as a result of posting this, I should point out. It's just a lovely worded piece.

Straight up, this guy is a ******.

First off, people aren't hating on the game itself, they are hating entirely on the ending.  The fact that you make all these choices and get to a sequence where those choices really didn't mean **** in the grand scheme of things.

People love the series, they love the games, they love the choices and ways you influence the game but as the ending stands this series offers 0 replay value other than the hope that your choices may somehow matter and the ending isn't so terribly crafted and you just made a mistake somewhere along the lines during your first playthrough.

He particularly mentions quarians/geth and krogan.  I don't think there are many people who would disagree it was great to see a conclusion to those story lines.  The problem lies in the fact that the galaxy isn't just about 3 races.  How do the humans fare?  What happens to the Salarians, Asari, and Turian?  The problem is the ending leaves you with so many unknowns and wanting so much more that you finish the game PISSED and no matter how many playthroughs you do, how many different choices you try to make, you will never get those answers.

Second, another reason people hate it is because of the idiotic circular logic and commander shepards willingness to just accept what is going on.  You can find details on this plenty of places so I won't go into detail on this other than provide a link: https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true#

If the ending we did get made sense and concluded the game, even in a grim matter, I don't think there would be the uproar that is currently going on regarding the endings.  Even if Shepard and everyone of our friends we have encountered and recruited in the game ended up dieing in various ways and they showed it to us, I would be fine with that.  The ending would be bittersweet and I would love it and accept it but that doesn't happen.

Third, look at the last line of this writers post, "thank goodness it didn’t fade to black and leave everything ambiguous, with just enough room for 900 more sequels"

Yeah, it ended with a CGI that made no sense and then left just enough room for 900 more DLCs and Sequels which in my opinion is worse.

This guy comes off as some idiot who probably doesn't think for himself.

[Ghost Warrior]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

All those things you stated are part of the kid's old room. Just like the kid, we never get to see how that room ends up, all we see (and get closure about) is the fact we get to choose where the kid will live - which is a choice completely irrelevant of everything else up to that point.

We can surmise that some other person may or may not live in Jamie's room. Perhaps it's now the home of a business. Or perhaps Jamie's room is no longer around. We don't know. Jamie moved to one of three places and that's the only consequence and closure we know.

Once again,Jamie was doing it for himself. If he doesn't get to see that room,it was all pointless,agreed.

But Shepard was doing it for entire galaxy. We might not see what exactly happens to every race,we don't get a 5-minute cutscene showing us everything. But based on everything that happened,we do know are actions had big consequences on their future.

[fwc577]

Habs25 wrote...

That article is dead on. It's fine to criticize, but so many people are taking it too far, spewing irrational comments about some alleged lies or mistreatment... that's the real tragedy, that some feel entitled enough to demand things from a company that gave them 100s of hours of fun.

We paid them for this product.

Without our support they wouldn't have had the opportunity to create a piece of art that provides millions of people with 100s of hours of fun, they could be stuck somewhere, jobless, like Joker at the end of this game.

Entitlements are a bull**** argument drummed up by the sheeples on the planet who are too stupid to realize the argument is almost always double edged sword.

[Ieldra]

I agree with that article to a point. But the main problem is this:

It's not that your choices don't have consequences. Until the end of the encounter with TIM, I was quite satisfied and wouldn't have needed more closure to any of the stories so far experienced. I knew where everyone was, who was dead and alive, who had a propect of a good future or which species would prosper or become extinct. I was very, very satisfied up to that point.

But the destruction of the relays retroactively destroys that closure. Now everything's open again, AND a few massive problems are added as well.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[fwc577]

Cobra5 wrote...

Stevebo wrote...


But it doesn't show you what the force
from the Relays was doing. It only shows what the initial blast from the
crucibal did.  Meteor or no meteor their own "lore" was that destroying
a Mass Relay would doom civilizations around it.  So you're left to
assume, just like the fact that the crew of the Normandy including my LI
Liara and bff garrus, who I took with me on the final push, are all the
sudden escaping the blast (from the Mass Relays mind you)  that causes
their ship to crash land on an unknown planet.....

One time at work, I popped a halogen lightbulb a few minutes after I turned it on. Clearly, every time electricity runs through a lightbulb for more then a few minutes, then, it pops.

But of course that's not the case. I did something I wasn't supposed to, and touched the bulb. The hand oil was enough to cause a hotspot on the bulb, causing it to pop.

So yes, with something as powerful as a relay, I would assume it would explode if you do something you're not supposed to (crash a "small planet" into it), but to say it will explode no matter what, is- as you say yourself- an assumption. Which is the point of my post.

Hackett also explains the crucible sends its power through the relay network so yes, we do know it is having the same effect as the initial blast. Its the whole point of the crucible and what made it a powerful weapon.

I agree the normandy was stupid. I have no idea what they were trying to imply with that scene and it made no sense.

You sir are a massive idiot and should simply cease posting.

You are ragging on someone for an assumption yet not 3 posts above it you automatically assume that because bioware didn't inform us about the infrastracture of things like earth that everyone could live peacefully on earth and they could survive in harmony and that someone would eventually develop an FTL drive that requires us to not need Mass Relays.

There is just one problem.  Our assumptions are grounded on DATA THEY ACTUALLY GIVE US IN GAME.  Your assumptions are grounded in space magic.  You come off as a hippy.

[Ghost Warrior]

fwc577 wrote...

Without our support they wouldn't have had the opportunity to create a piece of art that provides millions of people with 100s of hours of fun, they could be stuck somewhere, jobless, like Joker at the end of this game.

Yeah you did it for them,not because you enjoyed the games.

[Subject One]

He4vyMet4l wrote...

That is hardly the point.

The ME universe gets destroyed. It really doesn't matter what choices we made during the previous games, if no-one is left to enjoy them. The relays explode, and only a handful of individuals are left stranded on a planet.

That is how life after ME3 continued, A new beginning, with nothing to show for it. Everything we did was meaningless with the ending we got.

Let me put it this way: Lets say you are having a chess match with someone you don't know. You two are having a blast, with brilliant moves from both of you. Eventually you lose.

You may try again, saying to yourself that was fun and one hell of a match.

Would you try again if you knew that person was the best chess player in the world, and you have no way in heaven to win?

Edit:

I must say I believe mose of us loved everything prior to the end. I myself think ME3 is the best gaming experience I ever had (probably alot more than gaming alone). So that article is missing the point imo.

I understand that people complaints because the endings are short and a lot of things isn't explained. But I don't undestand why all has to be SO negative.

OK, let me explain MY ending following a Control ending where Sheppard (barely) survives and has Liara as LI:

- Reapers are gone and also Mass Relays.
- As an asari matriarch said in ME2 (the one that works at the bar) Asari can try to make their own Mass Relays. Maybe it will take a lot of years but it can be done (and is it stated at the epilogue that it will eventually happen 'some day').
- All the species can still have holo-communication to work together and create new Relays at the same time.
- In the meantime all the ships can travel at FTL speed. So they can travel on stasis mode (like Alien film) to return to their homes.
- Sheppard is alive, if he can communicate with the Normandy he can take a 'prothean' stasis style capsule and go to the 'jungle' planet.
- Even if it takes hundreds of years to do the travel, Liara can live 1000 years, so there is room for a happy ending and blue babies .

And that's Destroy ending. With the other two endings the Reapers are not destroyed, and Sheppard/ the new hybrids can have access to their technology to rebuild the mass relays. So here you have my endings.

There also other questions like 'the Sheppard that remains in control of reapers is indoctrinated?' or 'the reapers were right and Destroy will lead to organic extinction?'. But it can be answared in another trilogy :happy:

Yeah, it's all speculation done with the endings we have but I think that is as valid as the 'all is doomed' interpretations.

[fwc577]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Without our support they wouldn't have had the opportunity to create a piece of art that provides millions of people with 100s of hours of fun, they could be stuck somewhere, jobless, like Joker at the end of this game.

Yeah you did it for them,not because you enjoyed the games.

Way to pick and choose a small segment of what I actually said to support the retarded argument of entitlements and miss the point of what I said entirely.

The whole debacle with this game reinforces why I will never buy a digital game again.  I don't have the time to play tons of games and so I have to be picky because there are hundreds of different games that I could play.

I have only had 1 other video game that I hated the ending as bad as I hated ME3s ending that I immediatly went and returned the game and if I hadn't bought a digital copy of this game I would have returned this game like I did that one.  That game was the last Uncharted game which also had an ending that was rushed and filled with numerous plotholes and badly used cheap plot devices.

Now if you want to argue about entitlements. quote my whole post and make a real argument instead of sounded like your cognitive functions are below a normal level.