71 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowvalker]

Fit the ending of the game - you have to imagine what happens.. LOL

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Agreed OP ME3 isn't an RPG, it is a shooter and like all shooters its linear.

[hiraeth]

I can see where you're coming from, OP. One related aspect that I personally hated was that every mission seemed time-sensitive/critical/of utmost importance, so you never really knew which one to prioritize. For example, I personally thought curing the genophage was more important than helping Grissom Academy, so my plan was to hit Grissom right after curing the genophage. I was pretty irritated to learn that the Grissom Academy mission disappears after the genophage storyline is closed. I had no in-game hints or warnings that this would happen (other than Traynor saying that they need help, but...so does everyone else in the game at that point).

[Mastone]

I think the lacking of ME3 lies mostly in a looming deadline, but also the fact that Bioware had stretched it resources ( personel) to thin.
I know a lot of people disagree with me but I find that ME ends up to be a huge marketing bubble and got flakey at its end and for me all that they did right was was what they have created in ME1, playing ME2 and 3 I hoped they might get back to it, but it was just to mellow/soap opera for me.

I just finished Bioshock: Infinite, now that is a whopping story and a great game, it had its faults but the experience was gripping and engaging which makes you forgive mistakes...ME never managed to do this for me and that mostly lies in the fact that it fell short on all aspects:

-Story( arch) was ridiculous/flat, no twists and turns you are being pushed in a certain direction in a very dull and linear way aka no WOW moments (storywise)except at the ending but that is not the WOW I would aim for.

-leveldesign is linear and boring, the only exception was the underground city of tuchanka.

-gameplay was repetitive as well, no explorations or storydriving litlle tidbits where you find a new companion or revealing information, instead you had to eavesdrop on the citadel.

-Character choice, I miss these defining moments where you had to make a real choice like on Virmire or even the little cutscenes interupts of ME2, also the cheesy dialogue lines and lack of dialogue options ruined it for me.

-NPC's: The best characters in the game in my opinion where the ones from ME1 and some from ME2, and even though I never liked the number of companions of ME2, at least there was time to get to know them and they were different, in ME3 you just get lumbered with a bunch of them.

- Moneygrabbing/DLC; I know/understand and appreciate the fact that they are a company and need to make money from their games, but all the DLC they have released up until now should have been in the main game ( although they could leave out Citadel).
I know a lot of people defend Bioware with this but I find that if I pay +EUR 60 they should do their utmost to finish a game properly and make sure people get the full experience.
If you had the cheapest ride, you would never have Javik, don't know what a leviathan is etc etc.
My problem with it also lies more with the fact that it destroyed the cohession a finished and complete game normally emits and breaks it.

-lack of growth, sure the graphics got better with each installment but the game never evolved, never dared to do anything -new-.
ME1 was great ( it had some-major-flaws of course) and established some new things, but instead of developing these the devs basically stopped the ME1 story and flow in ME2 by doing a ridiculous suicide mission and also never developed characters or gameplay.
it basically was more of the same without the edges ME1 had ( Virmire, saving council etc) by the time I finished ME3 realisation caught up and I realised that the franchise has gone stale and that Bioware is not the Bioware of ICO or KOTOR anymore but they are merely building and consolidating business and losing sight on their main goal which is and should always be..making a great game

EDIT on behalf of Dinosteve

Modifié par Mastone, 06 avril 2013 - 05:04 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Mastone wrote...

*snip*

Dude format that better or no one will read it.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 06 avril 2013 - 05:00 .

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

I actually liked ME3's linearity. Unlike the previous installments, there was a decent pacing. It's organized, structured. Besides, don't most of us develop a certain order of doing things and then stick to that order for all subsequent playthroughs?

Secondly, ME3 needed that degree of linearity for the plot to properly progress. If we were presented with the option to do everything at the very beginning, a la ME but on a much larger and more urgent scale, we'd be overwhelmed out of the gate. "Who do I save first? Which species takes priority? Do I deal with Cerberus?" People already complain about the grimdark nature of the story; how do you think they'd feel when they had to choose one race over another?

Also, I see we have a necromancer among us.

[Mastone]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

I actually liked ME3's linearity...
..I see we have a necromancer among us.

I agree with you that if you have a set story, linearity is required to properly tell this story, but then leave out the choice bits as well since the game is set on a certain course choices will never matter.
ME was originally designed as a choicebased RPG not a linear shootergame with a story, at a certain point they stuck in the middle never providing enough of the one or the other.

If you choose a different order which means some characters can't exist aka necromancy then I would say someone from QA fouled up

EDIT:

Just to ad to this I personally would enjoy the game more if I have to make these grimdark choices you mention instead of the flat game I experienced

Modifié par Mastone, 06 avril 2013 - 06:13 .

[Bendigoe]

The series got Increasingly linear as time went on, whether this was Intentional or not I can't tell.

For example In the first game I always got that sense that I could go and explore anywhere and do It at my own pace (sort of). I could then argue that this Is why 3 was so linear, because we were In a rush and In the middle of a war...but Saren and Sovreign were working towards the same goal so the linearity doesn't make much sense.

[ThinkSharp]

More linear, yes, but I think they did what they could to break that up a bit with the side missions.

As others said, the urgency of war necessitated the linearity. Also, the way the story builds on itself in each priority mission, the plot requires it anyway.

The other two games aren't entirely non-linear themselves. Yes, you can do quests in various orders, but the story plays out along the same line.

ME3 lacks the "go where you will and explore on the side" missions of the other two games.

[ioannisdenton]

FACT: me3 has the MOST main story out of the 3. Me1 is great but the story is 15 hours long, me2 is similar, in Me3 the whole game is the central story. In me3 you do not get disjointed at any point.
Has anyone ever thought of that?

[Fixers0]

ioannisdenton wrote...

FACT: me3 has the MOST main story out of the 3. Me1 is great but the story is 15 hours long, me2 is similar, in Me3 the whole game is the central story. In me3 you do not get disjointed at any point.
Has anyone ever thought of that?

Two objections: 1. the plot of a story is not measurable in time.
                          2. the Tuchanka and Rannoch arc aren't part of the plot.

Modifié par Fixers0, 06 avril 2013 - 07:39 .

[ThinkSharp]

Fixers0 wrote...

Two objections: 1. the plot of a story is not measurable in time.
                          2. the Tuchanka and Rannoch arc aren't part of the plot.

Of course Tuchanka and Rannoch are part of the plot. 

By your argument none of the recruitment/loyalty missions in ME2 are part of that game's plot either.

Shepard is acquiring a fighting force against the Reapers. It's a species-wide version of recruitment & loyalty. Tuchanka and Rannoch--recruiting Turians, Krogans, Quarians, and Geth--are very much the center of that plot.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 07:42 .

[Fixers0]

ThinkSharp wrote...
Of course Tuchanka and Rannoch are part of the plot.

No, they aren't.

ThinkSharp wrote...
By your argument none of the recruitment/loyalty missions in ME2 are part of that game's plot either.

Which they aren't either anyway.

ThinkSharp wrote...
Shepard is acquiring a fighting force against the Reapers. It's a species-wide version of recruitment & loyalty. Tuchanka and Rannoch--recruiting Turians, Krogans, Quarians, and Geth--are very much the center of that plot.

That does have nothing to do with stopping the Reapers, as the game keeps hammering that conventional victory is impossible.

[ThinkSharp]

In the context of the game, two things, two main plot arcs, are required to stop the Reapers:

(1) Alien aid for Earth.
(2) The Catalyst

Uniting the galaxy--Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch--are part of (1).
Mars, Cereberus, Thessia, Chronos are part of (2).

Both are required. The plots intertwine.

Just because conventional victory is not possible has nothing to do with narrative structure.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 08:03 .

[Nole]

You are in a race against time to save Earth and you want to explore the whole galaxy (a.k.a. optional missions)? Are you kidding?

[Fixers0]

ThinkSharp wrote...

In the context of the game, two things, two main plot arcs, are required to stop the Reapers:

(1) Alien aid for Earth.
(2) The Catalyst

Uniting the galaxy--Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch--are part of (1).
Mars, Cereberus, Thessia, Chronos are part of (2).

Both are required. The plots intertwine.

Just because conventional victory is not possible has nothing to do with narrative structure.

Please explain to me what alien aid for earth has to do with the plot.

[mtmercydave09]

I agree the story did get very linear in ME3, but I think that's just because you were on the home stretch to the ending. This started becoming apparent after the Coup attempt when there's less side missions and mostly only priority missions.

As far as characters go, things really went downhill in my opinion from ME1. You can get to know your characters a lot better in ME1 than you can in ME3, but this is also possibly due in part that in ME1 the story was still maturing and Bioware wanted you to get to know the characters. The characters in some ways just seemed a little more distant to me in ME3, at least certain ones do anyways.

Dialogue choices also went downhill from ME1 to ME3.

The only things that really got better from ME1 to ME3 were graphics and combat in my opinion. While those are two very important things, it effectively in my mind turned the game from an RPG into a shooter first with story mixed in.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 06 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[ThinkSharp]

Fixers0 wrote...

ThinkSharp wrote...

In the context of the game, two things, two main plot arcs, are required to stop the Reapers:

(1) Alien aid for Earth.
(2) The Catalyst

Uniting the galaxy--Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch--are part of (1).
Mars, Cereberus, Thessia, Chronos are part of (2).

Both are required. The plots intertwine.

Just because conventional victory is not possible has nothing to do with narrative structure.

Please explain to me what alien aid for earth has to do with the plot.

OK. You're just yanking my chain, right?

Anderson to Shepard: Go the Citadel. Speak to the Council. Get help for the fight. We can't do this alone.

The Catalyst is all about defeating the Reapers, once and for all. But there is a war going on while the Catalyst is being researched and built. In order to hold back the Reaper forces, ally support is required. That's where the alien help comes in.

You could say that the catalyst is all about the ultimate victory of the war. (In intent, perhaps not how it played out.) While obtaining alien help is all about victory in the individual battles. Even if the Reapers are destroyed by the catalyst and not individual troops, the races need to be able defend their worlds as best as able so that there's something of their planets and their people left at the end of it all.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 08:43 .

[mtmercydave09]

ThinkSharp wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ThinkSharp wrote...

In the context of the game, two things, two main plot arcs, are required to stop the Reapers:

(1) Alien aid for Earth.
(2) The Catalyst

Uniting the galaxy--Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch--are part of (1).
Mars, Cereberus, Thessia, Chronos are part of (2).

Both are required. The plots intertwine.

Just because conventional victory is not possible has nothing to do with narrative structure.

Please explain to me what alien aid for earth has to do with the plot.

OK. You're just yanking my chain, right?

Anderson to Shepard: Go the Citadel. Speak to the Council. Get help for the fight. We can't do this alone.

The Catalyst is all about defeating the Reapers, once and for all. But there is a war going on while the Catalyst is being researched and built. In order to hold back the Reaper forces, ally support is required. That's where the alien help comes in.

You could say that the catalyst is all about the ultimate victory of the war. (In intent, perhaps not how it played out.) While obtaining alien help is all about victory in the individual battles. Even if the Reapers are destroyed by the catalyst and not individual troops, the races need to be able defend their worlds as best as able so that there's something of their planets and their people left at the end of it all.

Exactly, it's proven even more so that alien aid was needed when you talk to Javik, and he says that they were defeated because everyone was fighting their own wars and refused to help.

[Fixers0]

ThinkSharp wrote...
OK. You're just yanking my chain, right?

Anderson to Shepard: Go the Citadel. Speak to the Council. Get help for the fight. We can't do this alone.

That wouldn't be the first time someone with a military rank in Mass Effect said something dumb, what fight is he talking about anyway?

ThinkSharp wrote...
The Catalyst is all about defeating the Reapers, once and for all. But there is a war going on while the Catalyst is being researched and built. In order to hold back the Reaper forces, ally support is required. That's where the alien help comes in.

You could say that the catalyst is all about the ultimate victory of the war. (In intent, perhaps not how it played out.) While obtaining alien help is all about victory in the individual battles. Even if the Reapers are destroyed by the catalyst and not individual troops, the races need to be able defend their worlds as best as able so that there's something of their planets and their people left at the end of it all.

Yet I don't see how curing the genophage or helping the quarians/geth is relevant in that regard, nothing in the plot to build the crucible requires the presence of any of forces obtained from the two sub arcs.

[ThinkSharp]

Fixers0 wrote...

Yet I don't see how curing the genophage or helping the quarians/geth is relevant in that regard, nothing in the plot to build the crucible requires the presence of any of forces obtained from the two sub arcs.

Right. They aren't obtained to build the Crucible, they're obtained to help with the final assault in defense of Earth. Without a big fleet, the crucible never could have made it to Earth & Citadel to be installed or fired.

Curing the Genophage:

Shepard: We need Turian help.
Victus: We will help if the Krogan help us.
Krogan CL: We will help Turians/Humans if the Genophage is cured.

Shepard, to obtain aid, must cure or "cure" the Genophage.

The Quarian-Geth Conflict:

Hackett: Meet with Migrant Fleet, biggest fleet in galaxy. Try to enlist their aid.
Quarians: We can't help, we're about to wage war against the Geth.

Shepard, by ending the conflict, frees either or both side to aid the fight.

You're right in that they aren't directly about stopping the Reapers, but they're about "tying loose ends" so that these species can then go and help stop the Reapers.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 09:00 .

[Fixers0]

ThinkSharp wrote...
Right. They aren't obtained to build the Crucible, they're obtained to help with the final assault in defense of Earth. Without a big fleet, the crucible never could have made it to Earth to be installed or fired.

That's an argument after the fact, there is no reason to assume a big space or ground battle was even needed prior to Cronos station

ThinkSharp wrote...
Curing the Genophage:

Shepard: We need Turian help.
Victus: We will help if the Krogan help us.
Krogan CL: We will help Turians/Humans if the Genophage is cured.

Shepard, to obtain aid, my cure the Genophage.

All hail autodialogue, retcons and moronic characters.

ThinkSharp wrote...
The Quarian-Geth Conflict:

Hackett: Meet with Migrant Fleet, biggest fleet in galaxy. Try to enlist their aid.
Quarians: We can't help, we're about to wage war against the Geth.

Shepard, by ending the conflict, frees either or both side to aid the fight.

More Retcons and stupidness.

Modifié par Fixers0, 06 avril 2013 - 09:00 .

[hadrain77]

Have to agree that game was very linear, in ME1 and 2 missions were open and you could do them in any order with the exception of missions before and after Horizon but that is more due to disk space. I think it's due to requireing you to complete certain missions before new ones open up, for instance you always had to do Palaven, Surkesh, Tuchank, etc.. What irked me the most was since it was so linear why all the disk changes.

[ThinkSharp]

Fixers0:

Gotcha. You're talking about relevance to the plot. I'm talking about plot structure.

[Fixers0]

ThinkSharp wrote...

Fixers0:

Gotcha. You're talking about relevance to the plot. I'm talking about plot structure.

The very same structure that is based upon a dozen writing failures.