42 réponses à ce sujet

[Syrus101]

I've never had issues 'hitting' enemies with throw and my cooldown is usually quick enough so IF I do miss for whatever reason I can just throw again and hit.

and besides... more force = more kick to the hit = more hilarious ragdoll and knocking enemies off maps/ladders and other high places

[TheChosen0ne]

TheChosen0ne wrote...

Stasis+throw is still a good combo? Everyone says to use warp+throw

[Cordoroy17]

the + detonation talents stack

so warp + throw gives a bigger detonation than stasis + throw

but stasis has the obvious benefit of CC and the detonation will stasis other nearby guys aswell

[KiraTsukasa]

I've always taken radius ever since I saw what it does to hordes of charging husks.

[Highlord Heian]

Distilled Poison wrote...

@Fight- But you can still prime multiple targets for detonations with 1 throw. Not to mention the utility of multiple targets disabled far exceed that of 1 target slightly more disabled.

I'm going to discount your opinion on the grounds that you can't possibly prime a biotic detonation with throw.

[Cordoroy17]

one point on radius vs force

you have probably noticed that unless its an AOE spell the game has a very binary decision weather the spell is a hit or miss. you should of noticed this when going from normal stasis to bubble stasis, even when it is stasis vs 1 mob, it was way easier to hit with the bubble because even if u miss the bubble still caught the mob.

I think the same applies to throw, Ill warp a guy then launch a throw, the mob will roll evade and the game decides the spell is a miss, BUT i have arced my throw perfectly and the throw still hits the guy in the back as he rolls, since the game registered a miss it doesn't trigger the explosion or do any damage. I would assume the radius upgrade would turn this scenario into a hit and trigger the detonation ? same as throw being blocked by cover ?


I haven't respecced to radius yet but I guess that is how it would work. can someone confirm deny this ?

[KiraTsukasa]

Cordoroy17 wrote...

one point on radius vs force

you have probably noticed that unless its an AOE spell the game has a very binary decision weather the spell is a hit or miss. you should of noticed this when going from normal stasis to bubble stasis, even when it is stasis vs 1 mob, it was way easier to hit with the bubble because even if u miss the bubble still caught the mob.

I think the same applies to throw, Ill warp a guy then launch a throw, the mob will roll evade and the game decides the spell is a miss, BUT i have arced my throw perfectly and the throw still hits the guy in the back as he rolls, since the game registered a miss it doesn't trigger the explosion or do any damage. I would assume the radius upgrade would turn this scenario into a hit and trigger the detonation ? same as throw being blocked by cover ?


I haven't respecced to radius yet but I guess that is how it would work. can someone confirm deny this ?

As long as they didn't dodge and my throw went two miles away, it's always detonated even if it wasn't a direct hit.

[Drummernate]

Here is my build and some tips...:

The force of throw will increase the damage of the biotic detonation considerably. If you have a level 3 throw and have a level 6 warp, then the throw will barely increase the damage, but if you have a throw level 6 spec'd towards force it will increase the damage nearly 55%!

I honestly have never tried radius, but a 30% increase to force is quite a bit when combined with the passive skills.

I have mine like so:

Warp: 4 Biotic Explosions, 5 Expose, 6 Weaken Armor.
Throw: 4 Force, 5 Biotic Explosions, Force/Damage
Stasis: Blah blah blah BUBBLE!
Justicar: All towards power damage, and leave level 6 with nothing.
Fitness to level 3.

[ParanoidDrone]

anidamo wrote...

Question: judging by the replies in the thread, it looks like radius is the winner. I have to ask, though... does increased force also translate to increased damage from detonations, or is the detonation damage the same regardless? Because if more force = stronger detonations, then I may just have to go with force...

Biotic detonations are completely independant from power force and damage.  Only power evolutions that specifically buff detonations boost their damage/force/radius.  Detonations in general get stronger as the setup and detonating powers increase in rank.  A rank 6 setup and rank 6 detonator is strongest, rank 1 + 6 or rank 6 + 1 is equal, etc.

Modifié par ParanoidDrone, 20 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[Drummernate]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

anidamo wrote...

Question: judging by the replies in the thread, it looks like radius is the winner. I have to ask, though... does increased force also translate to increased damage from detonations, or is the detonation damage the same regardless? Because if more force = stronger detonations, then I may just have to go with force...

Biotic detonations are completely independant from power force and damage.  Only power evolutions that specifically buff detonations boost their damage/force/radius.  Detonations in general get stronger as the setup and detonating powers increase in rank.  A rank 6 setup and rank 6 detonator is strongest, rank 1 + 6 or rank 6 + 1 is equal, etc.

Not true.

It combines the damage of the "Setter-upper" with the damage of the detonate skill + the normal damage of those abilities.

So lets say.... (Not real damages, just an example.)

Warp does 350 damage. Explosions do 500. Throw does 250.

If I hit someone with warp, they take 350 damage, then I hit them with throw, causing a detonation and dealing 500 damage PLUS the 250 damage that throw normally does.

Thus, specs towards damage/force DO increase the damage.

In my experience when I changed my throw for recharge instead of the 240 damage boost it did tremendously less damage in detonations, even though warp and throw both had the detonation skill.

[ParanoidDrone]

That's technically true, but I was thinking in terms of the detonation itself, not the power used to trigger it. It seemed kind of...obvious that the detonation was counted separately from the power. (Try it on a low HP enemy and look at the kill feed.)

Unrelated: Are those numbers for real or just pulled out of a hat for example's sake? I've never seen an exact damage value for detonations before.

[Cordoroy17]

that's very wrong drummer

the only factors are the rank of the 2 spells (6+6 being the highest) and evolutions specifically increasing detonation damage.


http://social.biowar...ex/9629730&lf=8

[Drummernate]

They were only for examples.

The real damage is much, much higher. 4-5 detonations will kill a Banshee on Silver.

[Drummernate]

Cordoroy17 wrote...

that's very wrong drummer

the only factors are the rank of the 2 spells (6+6 being the highest) and evolutions specifically increasing detonation damage.


http://social.biowar...ex/9629730&lf=8

Well experience says otherwise.

Try it yourself.

It takes about 2 more explosions to kills stuff when you dont have force upgrades.

Techies saying something about the game they made, if he is a dev, (That contains hundreds game breaking of bugs still) does not 100% convince me of that "fact"

All I know is that I can kill a brute with 2.5 detonations (They die when I hit them with warp the 3rd time) when force is upgraded, and it takes 4-5 when it is not.

Modifié par Drummernate, 20 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Cordoroy17]

your right in that the mob cops the damage of the detonator spell then the damage from the explosion so if you combine both those together then yes its a factor. but detonations are used mostly on guys with shields and armor so the force doesn't factor and I believe the radius would make it easier to trigger the explosions.

[Drummernate]

Force does increase the damage on shields too however....

[Exodus2000]

Depends on what you want.

Wana see a group of enemies fly?Go radius
Wana do more dmg on single target with big biotic boom go force.

[ParanoidDrone]

Drummernate wrote...

Well experience says otherwise.

Try it yourself.

It takes about 2 more explosions to kills stuff when you dont have force upgrades.

Techies saying something about the game they made, if he is a dev, (That contains hundreds game breaking of bugs still) does not 100% convince me of that "fact"

All I know is that I can kill a brute with 2.5 detonations (They die when I hit them with warp the 3rd time) when force is upgraded, and it takes 4-5 when it is not.

That's because, as you said earlier (I think, I may have read it wrong) the game applies the power damage first, which probably includes any physics damage, then the detonation damage.  So if you spec the power for additional damage, then of course you'll do more overall.  But the detonation damage is unaffected by the raw power damage.

Put it this way:
Let X = power damage, Y = detonation damage, and Z = total damage.
X + Y = Z
You're saying that upgrading a power's force and damage increases the damage of a biotic detonation because increasing X increases Z.
I'm saying they don't because upgrading a power's force and damage does not change Y.
We're both right.

Modifié par ParanoidDrone, 20 mars 2012 - 03:35 .