209 réponses à ce sujet

[Hudathan]

LolaLei wrote...

The endings undo all the closure we worked so hard to achieve through the whole game.

The only goal in the game is to stop the Reapers and prevent total annhilation of the advanced races. At the end of the game you stop the Reapers and prevent total annhilation of the advanced races. Lots of people got screwed along the way but you ended a cycle that organics have unable to fight back against for millions of years. Again, what else was the game about other than the ultimate goal of firing off the Crucible and hope we don't all die?

[Johcande XX]

Also, as a side note, I don't think the Krogans will get out any easier than any other species. They're a tribal species, with a 'death in battle is the only honorable death' mentality. I figure that most of the male Krogan are with your galactic fleet; however, they're females are held as they're lifelines which would be far far away from the battle on Earth. Once stranded, how many male Krogan can get back to Tuchanka and start the repopulating?

[Thumb Fu]

Oh i agree, the entire game wraps up a lot of plot elements expertly, some sweet, some bitter sweet. All of them amazing well executed.

Then some child appears i don't know wtf, Liara is stuck on a planet with the Normandy crew... yeah i get the "new beginning" Idea its trying to portray, i just don't think that particular part was done very well at all.

[Remus A]

Tylea002 wrote...

The biggest 'no closure' error is we have no idea why the normandy was running and where they were. Whilst we know where they end up, not knowing why they did something so stupidly out of character is a form of not having closure.

Also a litany of other issues.

^

[kidbd15]

I love to link this video... enjoy!

[Wolven_Soul]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

I've been seeing multiple comments from these "Retake Mass Effect 3" folks saying that Mass Effect 3 had no closure at all yet they only focused on the last 15 minutes of the game,

Need I remind these people that the entire second half of the game was closure. Let me give you guys that reminder

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)
  
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)
  
• Destroying Cerberus
  
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.
  
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)
  
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial
  
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence
  
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.
  
• Samara many possible endings with her daughters

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

[*]Because that is only a partial closure.  We get nothing about what happens to the galaxy after the reapers are gone.  Do the Krogan truly make peace with the Turians and Salarians.  We don't know if the Rachni go on after this.  We just know that they fought in the end.  We don't know what happens after all the relays are destroyed, or how all those races who can't eat earth food are going to surviive.  We don't know what happens to Cerberus after TIM is gone.  If they find a new leader or if they go defunct, or any one of a dozen other things.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

KustomDeluxe wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

I've been seeing multiple comments from these "Retake Mass Effect 3" folks saying that Mass Effect 3 had no closure at all yet they only focused on the last 15 minutes of the game,

Need I remind these people that the entire second half of the game was closure. Let me give you guys that reminder

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)(1)
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)(2)
• Destroying Cerberus(3)
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.(4)
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)(5)
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial(6)
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence(7)
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.(8)
  Samara many possible endings with her daughters(9)

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

My responses are in the below numbered list answering each of your "reminders".

• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed and there's no chance for those people to get back home?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed and there's no chance for those people to get back home?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed and humanity is doomed to isolated pockets with no chance for those people to get back home?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed and there's no chance for the Rachni "threat" to be a problem?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed?
• Does this matter if the relays are destroyed and he might just starve to death?
• Does this matter if the relays?

Seeing a pattern?

[*]
Yes it does actually, keep in mind for the first 2 that not all of the Quarians and Krogans were on Earth, in particular the ones who can't fight. not to mention most of them were wiped out in the main battle, if you noticed the final scene there are no Quarian ships in orbit.
3. Yeah it does ... they die out
4. Makes no difference Jack still has the kids
5. Did you even read this one?
6. Without Mass Relays ... yes no chance of a new Racini threat
7. HE'S DEAD
8. Jacob's pretty resourceful he can make it work, hell the survivors on the Normandy crash did
9. Doesn't matter

[DrowNoble]

Fjordgnu wrote...

... all of which is invalidated by the obliteration of the galaxy in the last two minutes of the game.

Yep pretty much sums it up nicely.

Remember people:  HOLD THE LINE

[RegularX]

Setz wrote...

How did the galaxy get obliterated? Don't remember seeing that. If you can point me to it that'd be great.

Well in Arrival it is made pretty clear that an exploding Mass Effect Relay = supernova.

And the size of the explosions seen in the ending?  They're big.  Like really, really big.  Check the galaxy map view of it.

Not to mention that the Citadel is a relay, and was hovering in low orbit over Earth.  Go check out "low altitude nuclear explosions" for more.

Now, there's plenty of potential explanations here that maybe couch of all that.  But BioWare doesn't actually offer any of them, so ... really saying "the entire galaxy is decimated" is just as valid as saying "the whole ending was a hallucincation".

And so, I don't see how anyone can say this ending provides "closure" when it can barely provide an "explanation".

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Fjordgnu wrote...

... all of which is invalidated by the obliteration of the galaxy in the last two minutes of the game.

[Mafia_Steve]

The story is fantastic, until the very end, where it seemingly makes all those story arcs all for naught. It feels as if the ME3 writers got indoctrinated by a reaper called, Nietzsche.

[Taleroth]

Hudathan wrote...

Again, what else was the game about other than the ultimate goal of firing off the Crucible and hope we don't all die?

Unifying the galaxy. The Reapers have practically just been an excuse plot for that greater plot of bringing everyone together.

The first two games had a grand total of 1 1/2 Reapers show up. And we still were going around, bringing together people of disparate and sometimes hostile races, seeing their problems, and trying to fix them.

Modifié par Taleroth, 20 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Fjordgnu]

Setz wrote...

How did the galaxy get obliterated? Don't remember seeing that. If you can point me to it that'd be great.

Well, even if we assume the destruction of the relays doesn't cause the destruction established in Arrival, here's a small sample. All of this information is collected in other threads, so I won't write an essay here, but a few points:

1. Everyone on Earth is dead. If the Citadel's destruction in earth's orbit doesn't kill them all off, the environmental effects, starvation, lack of medical care and so on will.

2. Everyone in Sol is dead. The Turians and the Quarians are in an especially bad position, because Earth's ecology can't even sustain them. In the long run, though, everyone's trapped. The relays are gone. FTL travel to a "nearby" system might be possible, but given how often the Normandy needs to refuel just going between neighboring stars, and how long it would take, there's no way most of them could make the trip. There's not enough fuel to go around and not enough food to last the trip.

3. Everyone else is similarily isolated. With the relay network gone, many colonies will wither without outside help. The term "anarchy" comes to mind, and not in the good, utopian, marxist sense.

4. The Normandy's crew is stranded on a strange planet that may have food edible by some, but definitely not all of the crew. Garrus and Tali are probably dead.

The list goes on.

[agathokakological]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

[*]There was closure.

And then the universe blew up. Edit: See Arrival.

Modifié par agathokakological, 20 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[EsterCloat]

The ending makes practically everything done before it, both good and bad, rather pointless. It's like pushing someone out of the way of traffic to save their life only to have them and the rest of the city obliterated by a meteor. Nice the guy got to live an hour longer but pushing him out of the way in the first place doesn't really seem to have much point in hindsight.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 20 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[rockman0]

Setz wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

... all of which is invalidated by the obliteration of the galaxy in the last two minutes of the game.

This guy!

DISCLAIMER: But you're totally entitled to have your own opinion. 

How did the galaxy get obliterated? Don't remember seeing that. If you can point me to it that'd be great.

In Arrival, it was stated that destroying a Mass Relay destroys the entire star system. The destruction of the Mass Relays in the ending was large enough to be seen from an overview of the galaxy.It's safe to say that every star systems with a mass relay was destroyed.

Even if they're not, you've got just about the entire galaxy's military force stranded near Earth. Some of them can't eat the same food. And the ones that can will end up starving anyway because the war-torn Earth definitely won't be able to substain them.

So, you've got most of the galaxy's military force starving to death. The rest will end up killing each other over what little food remains. But this is just the beginning.

All of those civilizations in other parts of the galaxy are cut off from the rest of the galaxy. This means that worlds that depend on imports/exports will quickly collapse. So, the economy is basically moot. Eventually chaos will take hold and you'll see lots of power struggles, betrayals,etc. This is like a galaxy-wide stock market crash. Plus, the military force is gone by now, so it's going to be virtually impossible to rebuild and get back on track.

The galaxy had become so dependent on the mass relays that the relays were basically the backbone of the entire Milky Way. With the relays gone, the galaxy will implode. 

The sad part is...there are no Vulcans to get and get the galaxy out of this rut. 

[Bronze65]

Don't argue with idiots, guys. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Fliprot]

The OP makes great points about closure in the events he mentioned. But what does it matter after the ending? You cured the genopahge? For what? The mass realy in the Krogan DMZ probaly killed the Krogan. You killed cerberus? who cares? cerberus has noone to bother now anyways. Jack made peace with herself? who cares? shes probably dead now and so are her students.So is Miranda AND her sister,along with Jacobs family Thane's and Mordin are probably glad they died when they did too... It goes on and on with nearly every storyline.. Even if im wrong about all these things... we just dont know, and we want to know. Its the end right? well we want to know what happens in the long run. Some people would even settle for the current ending if at least the told us what happens in the long run.

[Setz]

KustomDeluxe wrote...

Setz wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

... all of which is invalidated by the obliteration of the galaxy in the last two minutes of the game.

This guy!

DISCLAIMER: But you're totally entitled to have your own opinion. 

How did the galaxy get obliterated? Don't remember seeing that. If you can point me to it that'd be great.

Mass relays exploded. When that happens you supposedly get a supernova.

Though the point is in contention because one can assume the kept the relays from doing that. But it bugs people.

Not space magic. You can see in every ending, the energy is sent off into the next relay, not outward in an supernove as it happens here.

[iorveth1271]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)
• Destroying Cerberus
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.
• Samara many possible endings with her daughters

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

Let's see... well first off, all these points are completely invalidated by the fact that no matter what you do, the Mass Relay system gets completely destroyed. After what we learned in Arrival, the destruction of a Mass Relay results in a supernova and the logical conclusion of that (if there is any logic to the ending) is that almost every slar system and certainly all organic and non-organic life in the galaxy effectively gets completely annihilated.

We have not destroyed Cerberus until TIM is dead. The fact that the entire plot on the Citadel as a whole didn't feel right with me and many others out there makes me say that we have not yet fully destroyed Cerberus and even if so, as TIM himself said: Cerberus is an ideal, not an organization. You can't destroy an idea.

The Rachni Queen... aside from the fact that we were promised that the Rachni would play a major role even in the final battle for Earth and instead had to save her race from annihilation AGAIN invalidates your argument.

All the sacrifices (Mordin, Legion, Thane) have been made absolutely worthless by the entire theme of the end because in the end, all life is effectively annihilated no matter what and we don't really know what happened to Earth after all.

Jacob finding peace and a family is absolutely retarded as well because it happens even if you romanced him in ME2. This invalidates everything those players worked so hard for in ME2 and feels like a stab in the back by Bioware.

Similar things go for Tali's romance. Most people have romanced her for her unmasked face. All we got was a photoshopped stock photo. Bioware really disappointed and got lazy there. The story of the Geth/Quarian war is not fully done yet as we do not know how it all turns out in the end for both races. All we know is Tali ASSUMES that it'll end well in the long run. This has yet to be seen though. In a character-driven game like the ME-series this is a very important matter.

As for the other characters... their personal stories are resolved, but we do not know what happens to them after talking to them over comm on Earth and therefore, just as above with Tali, their story is ANYTHING but resolved and closed.

And as for Shepard... why he HAD to die in a game that is focusing around the players choices and decisions is beyond me. Ever heard the term living legend? Ever listened to the cut dialogue between Shepard and Anderson on the Citadel? How they planned to settle down after all this is over? THAT would be an acceptable ending.

And last but not least the Reaper story... Where do they come from? Who built them? Why do they harvest advanced civilizations? Drew Karpyshyn's original script gave a clear answer to that. Bioware pulled that and slapped Mac Walters' GodChild on it. It's logic is that in order to prevent organics from building synthetics that eventually turn on them and annihilate them the Reapers (Synthetics) were made to harvest (and thereby annihilate, no matter how he puts it) all organic civilization. So to prevent synthetics from killing organics synthetics kill organics? Sorry, but I fail to see any logic in that. And what was very disappointing is that Shepard had no chance whatsoever to object to the GodChild's claims and assumptions. He was like a puppet, not entirely himself. The player was not given an alternative. THAT is why the ending sucked. And that is why we now have more questions than before playing ME3. THAT is why I want a new ending, a better ending.

THAT is why we want closure.

[DarkBladeX98]

rofl at ignorance.

Hold the line

[mrderp27]

and then everyone dies of starvation

[sAxMoNkI]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

I've been seeing multiple comments from these "Retake Mass Effect 3" folks saying that Mass Effect 3 had no closure at all yet they only focused on the last 15 minutes of the game,

Need I remind these people that the entire second half of the game was closure. Let me give you guys that reminder

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)
• Destroying Cerberus
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.
• Samara many possible endings with her daughters

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

Valid points but by the same token what about closure regarding living/ active crew members, i.e. what happens to Garrus following the crucible's beam?

[sAxMoNkI]

DarkBladeX98 wrote...

rofl at ignorance.

Hold the line

No need to be rude, if you disagree with the post constructively point out why using examples. Remember not everyone is 100% up to speed with everything that has been posted over the last week or so esp. people who have just finished the game.

[Quietness]

and than everyone dies except for those in the garden of eden.. only half of them died, hope there's a guy/girl left. Thats right folks Mass Effect is now big into inbreeding.