209 réponses à ce sujet

[K_Tabris]

So, it's also closure to have a group of every space-faring species in the galaxy on Earth?

With no hope of getting home?

Mmmk.

If it doesn't end up in a District 9 type of terrorist solution, I don't know what.

*mind explodes*, and that is why I am done with Mass Effect, pretending it never happened.

[SmokePants]

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

Modifié par SmokePants, 20 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[Mnementh2230]

What's with the "No closure"? We don't know what happened with the dark energy (Remember Tali's recruitment mission in ME2?), we don't know what's happened on earth, we don't know why the Normandy was inexplicably in the middle of a jump between clusters, we don't have any explanation as to why all of the solutions necessitated the annihilation of the relays, we don't know how a civilization so advanced that it could become the Reapers in the first place could be so disconnected from reality that it could somehow think repeated genocide is a moral option, we don't have ANY closure as to what's happened to civilization after the destruction of all the relays, we don't have any idea why TIM was on the citadel or how he got there, we don't know what the hell the starchild is... I could go on for a while yet, but hopefully you get the point.

This isn't about pettiness on behalf of the fan base - this is about a poorly written, obviously rushed ending to a storyline that desperately deserves a more fulfilling ending than it received.

Modifié par Mnementh2230, 20 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[iamthedave3]

EsterCloat wrote...

The ending makes practically everything done before it, both good and bad, rather pointless. It's like pushing someone out of the way of traffic to save their life only to have them and the rest of the city obliterated by a meteor. Nice the guy got to live an hour longer but pushing him out of the way in the first place doesn't really seem to have much point in hindsight.

This happens literally if you think about it.

Everyone on the citadel whom you help during the game dies according to Mac Walters. So almost all of the side quests are pure busywork that affect nothing save a meaningless 'war asset' number. No matter how well prepared the citadel defense force is, they accomplish nothing.

[anlk92]

Hudathan wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

The endings undo all the closure we worked so hard to achieve through the whole game.

The only goal in the game is to stop the Reapers and prevent total annhilation of the advanced races. At the end of the game you stop the Reapers and prevent total annhilation of the advanced races. Lots of people got screwed along the way but you ended a cycle that organics have unable to fight back against for millions of years. Again, what else was the game about other than the ultimate goal of firing off the Crucible and hope we don't all die?

Yeah, we should all just forget about the unnecessary bits involving characters and sub-plots. Crucible fired, Reapers gone, nothing else matters. Great logic there.

[Reptilian Rob]

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

Yes, because we are the close minded ones...

Think about what you just said for a minute. 

[Wolven_Soul]

kidbd15 wrote...

I love to link this video... enjoy!

That was brilliant.  

[iamthedave3]

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

The main mistake was in rushing the ending and assuming nobody would notice.

[Hudathan]

Wolven_Soul wrote...
Because that is only a partial closure.  We get nothing about what happens to the galaxy after the reapers are gone.  Do the Krogan truly make peace with the Turians and Salarians.  We don't know if the Rachni go on after this.  We just know that they fought in the end.  We don't know what happens after all the relays are destroyed, or how all those races who can't eat earth food are going to surviive.  We don't know what happens to Cerberus after TIM is gone.  If they find a new leader or if they go defunct, or any one of a dozen other things.

Having the writers tell us what they feel should be the cannon outcome of all these far-reaching decisions would completely change the context of what made those decisions so interesting when you first played the game. What makes the Genophage and Quarian/Geth conflicts intriguing is that two people can take completely opposite stances on the issues while both having the galaxy's best interests at heart. If we're force-fed the ultimate consequences of these decisions, then in retrospect the game becomes a mere 'do X for happy story while Y for sad story' and completely changing the context of the Paragon/Renegade system in the process.

[Thane12]

Why does the ending make no sense! i get the closure I want, but i could have made a better ending then
"you know what, joker got scared ran away and he gets knocked out of the sky by breaking all the relays making things just as bad as they used to be. "
"Perfect, hey lets make the illusive man appear on the citadel unexpectedly and die like Saren"
"while we are at it lets make shepard listen to this little kid!"
"3. Profit...YA!!!"

[Big Push]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

I've been seeing multiple comments from these "Retake Mass Effect 3" folks saying that Mass Effect 3 had no closure at all yet they only focused on the last 15 minutes of the game,

Need I remind these people that the entire second half of the game was closure. Let me give you guys that reminder

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)
• Destroying Cerberus
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.
• Samara many possible endings with her daughters

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

The lack of closure comes from the way the story is constructed.

Think back to your high school English class. You are probably familiar with the idea of a three act story, right? This is the sort of narrative structure used by almost every screenplay and most pieces of fiction, and there's a reason: it works, and you have to be a very talented writer to pull off something that deviates too far from it. Almost everything you have watched, read, or played follows this rough structure.

The first act sets up the location and characters. The second act, which is the longest, involves confrontation with some kind of obstacle. The third act is the resolution. In the third act, there is the climax, then falling action, and then a dénouement.

Here's the problem: the climax of Mass Effect 3 is Shepard's confrontation with the Reapers. Things have been going badly for Shepard and his/her allies, but just when things seem at their darkest, the elevator starts and Shepard meets the star child. Here, Shepard makes the final decision that will end the Reapers' slaughter and save the day.

But then the game ends. There is no falling action. There is no dénouement. There is basically nothing but plotholes and questions. The vast majority of the game's third act is just missing.

And that is why the ending is not satisfying and does not provide closure. It's just not compete. It's not structured in a way that is complete. It doesn't matter what happened in the first and second act in terms of tying loose threads for the rest of the trilogy, because ME3 on its own is not a complete finale.

[KustomDeluxe]

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

How exactly do you KNOW the galaxy was not obliterated?

Because star-child didn't tell me that when the mass relays blew up it wasn't going to do what it would normally do under those circumstances.

[Coolfaec]

Fjordgnu wrote...

... all of which is invalidated by the obliteration of the galaxy in the last two minutes of the game.

Exactly. It doesn't matter.

And to add insult to injury, the whole thing ends up being a story an old man came up with during one of his routine seizures. 

[InfiniteDemise]

Quietness wrote...

and than everyone dies except for those in the garden of eden.. only half of them died, hope there's a guy/girl left. Thats right folks Mass Effect is now big into inbreeding.

Seriously, that kid and creepy grandpa should have had 3 and-a-half arms and half a leg.

[mrderp27]

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

fine, it wasn't obliterated. everyone's just stuck in the solar system and will die of starvation (especially turians and quarians), overpopulation, and everyone killing each other

Modifié par mrderp27, 20 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[anlk92]

KustomDeluxe wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

How exactly do you KNOW the galaxy was not obliterated?

Because star-child didn't tell me that when the mass relays blew up it wasn't going to do what it would normally do under those circumstances.

Exactly. Whether the relays went supernova or not, it doesn't change the fact that Shepard turned out to be a maniac ready to wipe out the entire galaxy just to get rid of the Reapers.

[Zine2]

Which PR company of Bioware's are you working for again?

[RegularX]

SmokePants wrote...

The galaxy was not obliterated. Comprehend things first and THEN criticize.

The only mistake Bioware made was in overestimating its fanbase. If they had kept in mind how petty, reductive, and closed-minded they are, they might have done things differently.

Too late now.

You have no idea what happened to the galaxy, because it's never shown except for differently colored explosions.  Maybe try comprehending that is exactly one of the things people are calling out here, that we're treated to some random and inexplicable scenes which only have anything marginal to do the rest of the game(s).

For all you know, the Earth is left in ashes, there's an entire flotilla starving in space without a home, and Joker can't get busy with EDI because he left his can opener in the other Normandy.

I.E., no closure - all space magic.

But hey, we should feel OK about all that because sometime after something horrible happens to everyone in the known galaxy, Buzz Aldrin can still have a freaking kid.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

Mnementh2230 wrote...

What's with the "No closure"?
(1)We don't know what happened with the dark energy (Remember Tali's recruitment mission in ME2?),
(2)we don't know what's happened on earth,
(3)we don't know why the Normandy was inexplicably in the middle of a jump between clusters,
(4)we don't have any explanation as to why all of the solutions necessitated the annihilation of the relays,
(5)we don't know how a civilization so advanced that it could become the Reapers in the first place could be so disconnected from reality that it could somehow think repeated genocide is a moral option,
(6)we don't have ANY closure as to what's happened to civilization after the destruction of all the relays,
(7)we don't have any idea why TIM was on the citadel or how he got there,
(8)we don't know what the hell the starchild is... I could go on for a while yet, but hopefully you get the point.

1. What about it?
2. Most of the forces were wiped out leaving a few straggling races
3. Big galaxy size explosion coming at you, Basic instinct: "IT GONNA KILL EVERYTHING, GET AWAY FROM IT.
4. How else would they have remove the Reapers
5. The Reapers are like the Geth created by a previous race to "maintain order" but its evolution of becoming synthetic brought on its genocidal conquest
6. We do with the Quarians and the Krogans on their home planet. Thessia was wiped as noted by the Asari councilor
7. He learned from the Protheon VI that the Citidel was the Catalyst and was there before the Reapers arrived, and he wanted to control the Reapers he's stated that repeatedly how could you not have any idea on what he was doing?
8. The central hub of all Reapers

Tada

[pharsti]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

I've been seeing multiple comments from these "Retake Mass Effect 3" folks saying that Mass Effect 3 had no closure at all yet they only focused on the last 15 minutes of the game,

Need I remind these people that the entire second half of the game was closure. Let me give you guys that reminder

• Resolving the Quarian/Geth war, (if you talk to Tali afterwards you'll find full closure on that story arch)
• Curing the Genophage (or leaving it unchecked, Talking to Wrex/Wreav on Earth afterwards ties up that story)
• Destroying Cerberus
• Setting closure to Jack's storyline as a military teacher finding the closest thing she has to a family.
• Finally finishing off Miranda's storyline with her killing her father (if she survives depends on the player)
• Finding resolve or annialation of the Racini Queen, be it legit or artificial
• Thane's tragic end, and subsequent vengence
• Jacob finally finding the peace to start a family.
• Samara many possible endings with her daughters

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head, oh and then of course there's Shepard dying ... so that's the end of his story.

Honestly how can people say the game has no closure when the game is filled with it?

[*]Yeah ,closure, how did that go, did the rest of the Quarians even get back to their homeworld, were they all so accepting that they forgot about the Geth? And what about the Geth?
[*]Did they overrun the rest of the galaxy? Did they get their 10 planets? Did Wrex get his Mordin? Did they eat everyone in the armada?
[*]Cerberus is an ideal, destroy that.
[*]Sure, did her students survive? Did she? Did they get a tatoo?
[*]Did she and her sister finnaly make out? Wait, didnt she die? Who knows, speculations.
[*]Rachni? Their impact in the story was worth what? 100 assets? Yup, closure
[*]Ill give you that, Thane had his closure, wonder if his son turned into a priest >_>
[*]Jacob died, i fell on him when i blew up the Citadel, other than that... who cares? Its Jacob.
Yes, many, all of them without closure


This post contains sarcasm. There is no closure anywhere, except for the Reapers and the relays, relays got their closure (relay go boom!) and the Reapers did (Reapers blasted by red get a blue screen of death; Green, welcome, now you are all Reapers; Blue..... uh, you die but also control the Reapers, awesome logic there, good thing the Reapers can call heaven!)

Seriously, no closure and plotholes ahoy!

But glad you liked it! We thank you for your feedback and we will keep listening XD

[tfKR3W]

All ruined by the fact that everyone is stranded and basically screwed because of the relay explosion, (Which i thought blows up an entire system just me though),

[jules_vern18]

I don't see what's so hard to understand. The results of the decisions you make throughout the game are changed drastically and irreparably by the ending, and you (the player) don't get to see how the various characters/civilizations are affected by it.

Let's say you help an old lady across the street so that she doesn't get hit by a car. Then, as soon as you turn around, she gets hit by a meteor. Do you take satisfaction at having helped her safely navigate the crosswalk?

[Hudathan]

Just because a lot of people either died or got screwed during the ending battle does not mean there is no closure in the story. If knowing every single thing that will ever possibly happen in the future is considered closure then no story in the history of mankind has ever had closure.

jules_vern18 wrote...
Let's say you help an old lady across the street so that she doesn't get hit by a car. Then, as soon as you turn around, she gets hit by a meteor. Do you take satisfaction at having helped her safely navigate the crosswalk?

Wouldn't that be closure.

Modifié par Hudathan, 20 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Hellosanta]

So they actually think ME3 as a whole is the ending to the Shepard's story, don't they?

[Paragon Auducan]

I don't mean to be rude but defenders seriously are the cesspool of humanity. I mean SERIOUSLY, people actually think they got closure!?

THE FREAKING BEST ENDING IS A CLIFFHANGER

Modifié par Paragon Auducan, 20 mars 2012 - 01:22 .