120 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

[hexaligned]

CavScout wrote...

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

Modifié par relhart, 03 décembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[nuculerman]

relhart wrote...
This is by far the easiest RPG I have played in a long time, there are so many broken elements I'm not even going to go into it (it's been done a thousand times on this board already) it makes even playing the game a complete waste of time if you enjoy any level of challenge at all in your hobbies.  There are LOTS of people who feel like that, regardless of what you think.  Giving feedback to the company that their game failed to deliver on some levels is completely justified... they are responsible for it.

The story is also about as generic as you can get, Gather an army and go fight a dragon, yay.    I lost a lot of respect for Bioware as a game developer with this title, and i have a few friends that don't have the luxory of posting on gaming forums while bored at work, who feel the same.  If bioware is trying to shift to developing infintile games, with no deapth of either gameplay or story, thats their desicion I guess, I won't be along for the ride though.

Care to elaborate on the RPGs you've played that are so much harder than this?  Because Mass Effect was far easier with any character but an engineer.  Fall Out 3 was much easier with every single build you can think of, Oblivion was easier as long as you played an Assassin or Battlemage, The Witcher was easier, never played Fable 2, but I'm confident it was easier from what I've heard...

Maybe I missed a lot of RPGs or something, but your comment, to me, is utter BS.

As for the story being generic, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  The general story arc might be fairly generic but the world itself is original and better developed than any game I've ever played.  I'm on my fourth playthrough and I'm still surprised every few hours with new material that exists because I made a slightly different choice.  I think the vast majority of Bioware's customer base agrees with me, so feel free to "not be there" for Dragon Age: Origins 2.  I'm sure the game will still get superb reviews and sell millions of copies without you're help.

But I have to wonder why the hell you're on these forums if you hate the game.  People like you really do baffle me.  

[nuculerman]

relhart wrote...

CavScout wrote...

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

This is a BS complaint.  Try playing an all rogue party without stealth or a ranger/bard build and you'll be trashed even on normal.  Try playing an all warrior build without a berserker/champion and you'll be trashed on even normal.  And if you aren't, please post a video because I'd love to see it.  I'm more than a casual gamer and I got completely wiped on multiple fights on normal with my first two attempts at balanced parties.

[hexaligned]

nuculerman wrote...

relhart wrote...

CavScout wrote...

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

This is a BS complaint.  Try playing an all rogue party without stealth or a ranger/bard build and you'll be trashed even on normal.  Try playing an all warrior build without a berserker/champion and you'll be trashed on even normal.  And if you aren't, please post a video because I'd love to see it.  I'm more than a casual gamer and I got completely wiped on multiple fights on normal with my first two attempts at balanced parties.

Because if YOU fail at something, it has to be hard for everyone ...right?  

[nuculerman]

relhart wrote...

nuculerman wrote...

relhart wrote...

CavScout wrote...

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

This is a BS complaint.  Try playing an all rogue party without stealth or a ranger/bard build and you'll be trashed even on normal.  Try playing an all warrior build without a berserker/champion and you'll be trashed on even normal.  And if you aren't, please post a video because I'd love to see it.  I'm more than a casual gamer and I got completely wiped on multiple fights on normal with my first two attempts at balanced parties.

Because if YOU fail at something, it has to be hard for everyone ...right?  

For this game?  Yes.  I have no doubt there are people who who beat this game on nightmare their first try and it was easy for them, but I also have no doubt it was a combination of their superior skill in the game and their superior character builds.  It's really quite easy to build crappy character builds in this game.  And I realize there's plenty of people better than me, but I'm intelligent enough to extrapolate from my own experience how hard it would be for people more talented than me.

For example, my first attempt at a dual wielding rogue was a complete failure.  I didn't invest in the momentum chain.  I had up to lethality, up to coup de grace, up to reposte, and up to dual weapon mastery.  I also had the first two in assassin and first talent in duelist.  First three in stealth as well.  First three in lockpick.

Make that build, and fight Loghain.  I really don't care if you're 100x better than me at this game.  You'll be wiped on anything over normal without 6 or more healing pots.  Now try that build with Morrigan spec'ed as a blood mage/shapeshifter, Ohgren as a Beserker/Reaver without ideal armor, and Lelianna as a Bard/Assassin without stealth and tell me the game is too easy.  If you're going to make that claim though, post a video of it.  Until then I'll assume you're full of crap.

Modifié par nuculerman, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:08 .

[knarayan]

relhart wrote...

nuculerman wrote...

relhart wrote...

CavScout wrote...

...snip...
If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

This is a BS complaint.  Try playing an all rogue party without stealth or a ranger/bard build and you'll be trashed even on normal.  Try playing an all warrior build without a berserker/champion and you'll be trashed on even normal.  And if you aren't, please post a video because I'd love to see it.  I'm more than a casual gamer and I got completely wiped on multiple fights on normal with my first two attempts at balanced parties.

Because if YOU fail at something, it has to be hard for everyone ...right?  

Can you give me an example of a game you found challenging?
I don't consider myself a casual gamer, and I do find the all rogue/all melee too easy a bit hard to take.

Of course, if your point is that you are such a great gamer that you grieve because there are no hard games left for you to play, consider it made

Modifié par knarayan, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:28 .

[CavScout]

relhart wrote...

nuculerman wrote...

relhart wrote...

CavScout wrote...

I'll never understand those that min/max their characters classes and stats/spell selections and then complain that the game is to easy. Using an OPTIMAL party and skill/spell list will obviously be easier than using a non-optimal group.

If only that were the case.  I have tried full melee parties, I have tried full rogue parties, at this point the game has become "is there any way at all to get some challenge out of this thing?"  Min/maxing isn't even in it, I'm a fairly casual gamer, I can't turn myself into an idiot though, wich seems to the only way to be challenged by the game.

This is a BS complaint.  Try playing an all rogue party without stealth or a ranger/bard build and you'll be trashed even on normal.  Try playing an all warrior build without a berserker/champion and you'll be trashed on even normal.  And if you aren't, please post a video because I'd love to see it.  I'm more than a casual gamer and I got completely wiped on multiple fights on normal with my first two attempts at balanced parties.

Because if YOU fail at something, it has to be hard for everyone ...right?  

Yet you have no problems saying your experience with the game is the same for everyone.... funny that, eh?

[Alneverus]

nuculerman wrote...

For example, my first attempt at a dual wielding rogue was a complete failure.  I didn't invest in the momentum chain.  I had up to lethality, up to coup de grace, up to reposte, and up to dual weapon mastery.  I also had the first two in assassin and first talent in duelist.  First three in stealth as well.  First three in lockpick.

Make that build, and fight Loghain.  I really don't care if you're 100x better than me at this game.  You'll be wiped on anything over normal without 6 or more healing pots.  Now try that build with Morrigan spec'ed as a blood mage/shapeshifter, Ohgren as a Beserker/Reaver without ideal armor, and Lelianna as a Bard/Assassin without stealth and tell me the game is too easy.  If you're going to make that claim though, post a video of it.  Until then I'll assume you're full of crap.

I sunk nearly all points into rogue on my first playthrough just for the hell of it, and not much in the DW tree due to this. It turned out to still be a rather easy fight. Just whip out a nice dirty fighting, below the belt, etc. and that offsets plenty.

But then again I'm a rogue ****, so running a rogue from a tactical sense comes natural.

[CBGB]

Since there are also Threads about how hard the game is - a position reflected in the patch changes to make Easy mode easier - there's clearly a range of opinions, as on any issue on the Internet.



It may help to use other games as reference. I've had to reload more fights in DAO than any fight in Oblivion, and for many more fights than in the BG series. It's more comparable in difficulty for me to Half-Life, where I need to reload every ten battles or so.



I'm playing on 'Normal' and I find the difficulty about right: challenging but not punishing, with many fights rewarding clever tactics.



How do other players find DAO compares to other games we might know?

[nuculerman]

Alneverus wrote...

nuculerman wrote...

For example, my first attempt at a dual wielding rogue was a complete failure.  I didn't invest in the momentum chain.  I had up to lethality, up to coup de grace, up to reposte, and up to dual weapon mastery.  I also had the first two in assassin and first talent in duelist.  First three in stealth as well.  First three in lockpick.

Make that build, and fight Loghain.  I really don't care if you're 100x better than me at this game.  You'll be wiped on anything over normal without 6 or more healing pots.  Now try that build with Morrigan spec'ed as a blood mage/shapeshifter, Ohgren as a Beserker/Reaver without ideal armor, and Lelianna as a Bard/Assassin without stealth and tell me the game is too easy.  If you're going to make that claim though, post a video of it.  Until then I'll assume you're full of crap.

I sunk nearly all points into rogue on my first playthrough just for the hell of it, and not much in the DW tree due to this. It turned out to still be a rather easy fight. Just whip out a nice dirty fighting, below the belt, etc. and that offsets plenty.

But then again I'm a rogue ****, so running a rogue from a tactical sense comes natural.

without momentum, dirty fighting means you get two backstabs, which, against Loghain, is about 5% of his health.  Below the belt has never really helped any of my rogues accept my Dalish Archer.  Riposte is resisted by everyone that isn't a white enemy.  Dirty fighting is resisted by anyone that isn't a yellow or white enemy.  If you want to make the pure rogue build, you need evasion so at least you're not getting hit.  I didn't have that.

Again, I say that if you think this game is too hard, play with the rogue build I described and come back and claim that again.  If you don't believe me, when I finally get internet on my PC, I'll post a video of my build fighting Loghain on normal and getting wiped and you can tell me exactly what I'm doing wrong, and how if I just used your tactics it would be easy.

[knarayan]

CBGB wrote...

...

How do other players find DAO compares to other games we might know?

Oblivion was a walk in the park, compared to DA:O. So was Fallout 3. Initially I found BG (both 1 and 2) very tough. Still have nightmares about that wolf in the wilderness outside candlekeep after Gorion's death. And the random encounters with spiders and ettercaps.
BG 2 - was better - and surprisingly easier as a solo than with the full party of 6.
But I think the Ascension battles - especially the Abzigal/Tamah/Rill/Shelligh/Rance/Quenash and the Mana Temple - oh man. They were frikkin insane - probably the toughest battles ever. I spent weeks on those without being able to make a dent.

But hardest ever - Nethack Took me several years to ascend. Number of ascensions - 3. Play time - around 8 years.

[Alneverus]

nuculerman wrote...

without momentum, dirty fighting means you get two backstabs, which, against Loghain, is about 5% of his health.  Below the belt has never really helped any of my rogues accept my Dalish Archer.  Riposte is resisted by everyone that isn't a white enemy.  Dirty fighting is resisted by anyone that isn't a yellow or white enemy.  If you want to make the pure rogue build, you need evasion so at least you're not getting hit.  I didn't have that.

Again, I say that if you think this game is too hard, play with the rogue build I described and come back and claim that again.  If you don't believe me, when I finally get internet on my PC, I'll post a video of my build fighting Loghain on normal and getting wiped and you can tell me exactly what I'm doing wrong, and how if I just used your tactics it would be easy.

It could be a mixture of tactics and equipment, to be perfectly honest. The rogue I used played into the crit/backstab bonuses supplied by various gear. If you want, shoot me a message and we can play around with the set-up and see if I can offer some helpful tactics/suggestions.

And to try and get a point across that was censored, I'm a rogue ho. Any game that has a rogue in it I instantly roll first.

[Giltspur]

Zarenthar wrote...

A lot of decisions are tough and heart breaking but the overall difficulty level of the game is laughable. I had to put it on Nightmare early on to feel some kind of challenge which is sad. Maybe my setup of 3 mages+ Shale is OP for a first playthrough i'll try a more melee heavy setup next time maybe I'll actually have to use HP/MP pots more than a dozen times throughout the game. Heck I have over 70 poultices and a ****load of mana pots because I was constantly holding back in fear of running out  XD it obviously never happened. I hardly even bothered with gear my mages still barely have 130 HP and wear crappy rags. Only Allastair is somewhat geared and I don't even use him =P

Why is the game so easy?
1: you can kite mobs way too easily and you can easily peel off packs of mobs.
2: Most CC spells are overpowered
3: Radius of most AoE spells is absurd. Damage is relatively ok( except SotC)
4: spell combos are OP
5: Not enough enemy casters, virtually no healers.
6: heavy armor pulls aggro on sight just cause they look mean... ( lol?)


Hopefully custom modules will introduce survival modes or ultra hard and stuff like that so I can push my team and maybe perhaps wipe =O Hell I even managed to kill the girl that is supposed to wipe the floor with your team so you end up in prison.

Don't get me wrong though I love this game a lot it's actually the first single player game that held my interest in years. I never play offline usually. Combat is very fun and tactical pausing is great.

Just wanted to vent a little sorry.

Well, yeah, the game isn't hard.  This is the "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate and in that game you could oblieterate everything  as well.  

On spell combos, I'd say they're very effective.  But I don't want to call them overpowered--because they're very fun and not necessarily a problem as implemented. I expect to see spell combos start showing up in more RPG's. I think the solution isn't to nerf spell combos but rather to just make harder encounters.

Other things are just problems with RPG's in general.  Gear not mattering on mages: yep, often a problem in games.  CC being powered: it's like that in every game.  Potions: overpowered.  Yep, nothing new under the RPG sun.

I still think it's important to have CC and spell combos in these games since it's combinatory possibilities that can really draw you into a game's tactics.

The DA boat has already sailed.  (And it seems we both agree, easiness aside, it's great.  In my case, I think it's the best single-player RPG since...well, BG2).  For DA2, they could consider linking the cooldowns on potions of different levels so that mana and health management can't just be steamrolled with potions.  Once potions aren't the cure for everything, then perhaps gear on mages will matter more.

One good thing though is that you can always just wear what looks best as a mage.  Perhaps DLC's can add in...funny hats.

[menasure]

nuculerman wrote...
....
Make that build, and fight Loghain.  I really don't care if you're 100x better than me at this game.  You'll be wiped on anything over normal without 6 or more healing pots.  Now try that build with Morrigan spec'ed as a blood mage/shapeshifter, Ohgren as a Beserker/Reaver without ideal armor, and Lelianna as a Bard/Assassin without stealth and tell me the game is too easy.  If you're going to make that claim though, post a video of it.  Until then I'll assume you're full of crap.

that was a funny part.
1 Alistair jumps up in a delusion of powerhunger after he never wanted to be the king and me treating him like a dog. seems i was wright to treat him that way because he just decided to loose the whole game against my will. halas the king wannabee had no chance whatsoever 
2 picked Sten as "champion" and you will get a "finally!" reaction -yup he does feel like a champion alright and he was my best hitter at the time during fights- 5-6 hits later: Sten managed to land maybe one hit while he got a barrage of stings from Loghain and lost the whole story for me.
3 i appointed morrigan as "champion". all it took was 3 cone of colds and Loghain could not even touch her. the funny thing is her -at least i think it was her- giving comments on the fights in the meanwhile. ok i am not even sure why a staff counted as a sword in a sword fight

but these fights were all on the same difficulty yet 2 were very hard without tons of potions while one was a kitty mode. you want it hard? play without potions and without reloads and call it "real mode"

Modifié par menasure, 03 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .

[Besetment]

This game is only easy for the same reasons that BGII was.



1) You play through at least once and obtain enough knowledge of the mechanics of the game to exploit cheese.

2) You exploit cheese.



The first time anyone plays DA:O and BGII its hard because you don't know what works and what doesn't, you don't know where the difficult fights are and the pop up mobs. You don't realise that lyrium, elfroots and flasks are in infinite suppy from certain vendors. Part of the fun of games like this is figuring it all out.



Of course the game is going to be easy if you make a Rogue stealth bomber and consciously cheese abuse your way through the official campaign knowing that all you have to do is try the same tactic sans Stealth and you will feel a tsunami wave of pain.

[Kalcalan]

menasure wrote...

but these fights were all on the same difficulty yet 2 were very hard without tons of potions while one was a kitty mode. you want it hard? play without potions and without reloads and call it "real mode"

Good point but some would say potions are not needed with a Spirit Healer in your party.

That being said, in a duel if the mage casts cone of cold the opponent has very little time to react (none whatsoever if he or she didn't hit the mage first). The only way a mage using this tactic can be beaten is if the Warrior or Rogue can stun the mage or otherwise disrupt the spellcasting (or resist it as a dwarf or with runes).

That's a bit like rock, paper, scissors.

I'm not a fan of mages in this game. I recognize their power and their utility but abusing some spells feels really cheap to me. It seems that increased difficulty through mods or patches would only mean that you have to use exploits to get through fights.

Someone mentioned BG2, there are mods that make this game incredibly difficult as NPCs get instant spells and almost unlimited spell slots and a variety of magic and physical resistances to the point that you have to cheese your way through most fights. That's a different way of playing but it's definitely not one that I enjoy.

Regarding Fallout 3, the unmodded game is a joke. I had to play on very hard with mods that made it more difficult, reduced XP and increased spawns to enjoy it.

So I guess that I can understand players who complain about difficulty but I don't get players who claim that there is absolutely no challenge in Dragon Age even if you play a rather inefficient build without mages.

[Ezele Olos]

Mods settle most of these issues. The modding community already has tons of awesome mods @ dragon age nexus.



I definitely agree that Nightmare isn't hard enough for a "final" or "hardcore" difficulty. If you have a problem with difficulty then use the Nightmare Plus mod and the other difficulty mod posted there (they stack). It makes the regular nightmare seem like child's play. It also gives you an opportunity to use shapeshifting mods and not feel too overpowered, and perhaps use certain gear mods without dominating. Sell your potions to merchants. Play whatever way makes the game feel balanced to you. You don't need a hard-cap in the game to tell you not to do something either unless you just like to cheat...



If you are complaining to Bioware to fix these problems you are looking in the wrong place. Why not ask for a mod instead? If we have learned anything from past mod games like Morrowind/Oblivion it's that the game that shipped seemed pale in comparison to what a wide variety of modders can do over time. It's fine to criticize to make the next game better, but why not just DL mods to fix/customize what you have now?

[Kastlefeer]

Every orange mob in the game should just pull out a wand of "mana clash" and blow the face off of the party's mages! for some added challenge!

[borelocin]

I r 2 ub3r 4 this game ! I soloed it on Nightmare with a buck nekkid 2H warrior city elf equipped only with a spoon I stole from Vaughan's kitchen. Anyone who can't do that clearly needs to l2p n00b

Modifié par borelocin, 04 décembre 2009 - 03:54 .

[EJ42]

If you want "hard", then either play a twitch game or play chess.

If you want an immersive, story-driven game, then play this.

If you're looking for a "challenge" then try this: http://video.google....837593619862339

Modifié par EJ42, 04 décembre 2009 - 04:27 .