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[Arlionis]

grey_wind wrote...

Arlionis wrote...



These hate troll threads are ridiculous. Seriously, why is it always Liara? didn't we also have WAY too much Garrus and Tali? I mean, they forced them into the three games. Why was Tali even included in the ME3 crew when she has such a high death ratio in ME2 instead of including other more interesting characters like Jack, Samara or Miranda? isn't that unfair?

They revealed on Twitter that Tali wasn't even supposed to return as a full squadmate in ME3 but they were going to include her out of fan demand. Dunno if that helps.
The problem most people have with Liara is that she's forced on the player as a good friend regardless of whether or not they care for the character. The same is true for Garrus, and to a lesser extent Tali, but the difference is that those two characters are insanely popular among the majority of the fanbase.

Oh, and Liara isn't popular? besides, I see your reasoning to be extremely unsettling: so, are you telling me that forcing characters and constantly shoving them right on your face in EVERY Mass Effect game is just OK because they have a niche fanbase spamming the BSN forum? That's a bully attitude. I don't like Tali, I find her boring and shallow, why do I have to endure her in EVERY Mass Effect game at the expense of the developers wasting resources on her and not Jack, Samara, Miranda, Thane, et al?
Also, I might have to remember you that outside the BSN bubble Miranda was the most romanced LI in ME2.

[Leafs43]

It's not that there is too much Liara, there is just too little of everybody else.

I mean Ashley joins and all you get is her passed out on the floor.


Cortez and Traynor probably had more dialog than Tali, Ashley, Garrus and Vega combined.  

That's what is wrong.

Modifié par Leafs43, 15 mai 2012 - 02:57 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

ME2: Liara is largely absent. Fans claim they want more Liara.
LotSB: More Liara for fans.
ME3: Fans see more Liara, again. Cheers for forethought from the writers.

Result:

Multiple hate threads about Liara (?).

Ah, but see those fans are not one and the same. The ones who wanted to see more Liara are for the most part content with how ME3 handled it and have been quiet whereas those who were content not having Liara around are now complaining about there being more Liara. It's all relative.

Indeed, it's relative. It makes me wonder if there was any refuting going on pre-LotSB about more Liara content. If there was enough, then I doubt LotSB would have even been implemented. If there wasn't any, or very little, you can't blame the writers for catering to the fans who spoke up about wanting more Liara. The way I see it, the writers thought, "Hey, we heard the fans like Liara, so let's give her more screentime." Now they're hearing all the angry people who don't like her (over-)inclusion and the writers and myself included are quite confused.

If these other fans really didn't like Liara that much, there should have been more hate threads before ME3's release. It's too late now and it's just a waste of time.

There were. Quite a few. But the premise is flawed. Liara was given plot arrmor in ME2; she was left out of the squad and therefore could not die on the suicide mission. Because of this, it was accepted from the beginning that Liara was going to return in some major capacity in ME3. Ashley/Kaiden could be dead just as much as Garrus and Tali so fans logically concluded that they wouldn't have much impact, if any (speculation was around that said all any character that could be dead would get was a small cameo; hence the "[X character] for squadmate and LI in ME3" banners).

Liara was the only guaranteed major character because she was the only one that would invariably be alive at the start of ME3. Liara fans hate Tali and Garrus fans because they got a whole game with their LI. At the time, Garrus and Tali fans hated Liara fans because Liara was guaranteed to be there in ME3 while their characters weren't. Basically, at the time having Garrus and Tali with us in ME2 was a mixed blessing.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 15 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[shadowspecialist]

Perhaps there wasn't enough contributions from the other characters.

Personally, I thought There wasn't enough variation in Liara as far as chit chat goes. The visits, I am all for, but several play-throughs have Liara as a LI.

From one end I agree with the OP, that there was a larger amount of involvement with Liara. On the other end, I don't think there was enough contributions from everyone else to balance it all out.

Should it have been balanced out? I dunno. I would have liked to see more characters perform acts of importance more frequently, not just in their defined chapter or section.

[Raiil]

Arlionis wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Arlionis wrote...



These hate troll threads are ridiculous. Seriously, why is it always Liara? didn't we also have WAY too much Garrus and Tali? I mean, they forced them into the three games. Why was Tali even included in the ME3 crew when she has such a high death ratio in ME2 instead of including other more interesting characters like Jack, Samara or Miranda? isn't that unfair?

They revealed on Twitter that Tali wasn't even supposed to return as a full squadmate in ME3 but they were going to include her out of fan demand. Dunno if that helps.
The problem most people have with Liara is that she's forced on the player as a good friend regardless of whether or not they care for the character. The same is true for Garrus, and to a lesser extent Tali, but the difference is that those two characters are insanely popular among the majority of the fanbase.

Oh, and Liara isn't popular? besides, I see your reasoning to be extremely unsettling: so, are you telling me that forcing characters and constantly shoving them right on your face in EVERY Mass Effect game is just OK because they have a niche fanbase spamming the BSN forum? That's a bully attitude. I don't like Tali, I find her boring and shallow, why do I have to endure her in EVERY Mass Effect game at the expense of the developers wasting resources on her and not Jack, Samara, Miranda, Thane, et al?
Also, I might have to remember you that outside the BSN bubble Miranda was the most romanced LI in ME2.

There's also the issue that while you can mostly ignore Garrus and Tali throughout the games (you don't even have to recruit Garrus in the first one and Tali in the second), Liara is always there. And she always wants to be my friend.

Which is disturbing because I was rude to her in the first game, pretty dismissive in the second game (only invited her up to the ship for the cheevo once) and not that nice to her in the third game, either. Yet she still acts sweet on Shepard, and it makes me feel like she needs to go to therapy for co-dependancy issues.

Bottom line: Using Liara as a purveyor of information makes sense; she's been around a while, and a Prothean expert. But making her buddy-buddy with Shepard (and forcing Shepard to be buddy-buddy back in the third game) breaks immersion for Shepards who do not like her. You shouldn't have anyone forced on you like that. It's creepy and irritating.

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

ME2: Liara is largely absent. Fans claim they want more Liara.
LotSB: More Liara for fans.
ME3: Fans see more Liara, again. Cheers for forethought from the writers.

Result:

Multiple hate threads about Liara (?).

Ah, but see those fans are not one and the same. The ones who wanted to see more Liara are for the most part content with how ME3 handled it and have been quiet whereas those who were content not having Liara around are now complaining about there being more Liara. It's all relative.

Indeed, it's relative. It makes me wonder if there was any refuting going on pre-LotSB about more Liara content. If there was enough, then I doubt LotSB would have even been implemented. If there wasn't any, or very little, you can't blame the writers for catering to the fans who spoke up about wanting more Liara. The way I see it, the writers thought, "Hey, we heard the fans like Liara, so let's give her more screentime." Now they're hearing all the angry people who don't like her (over-)inclusion and the writers and myself included are quite confused.

If these other fans really didn't like Liara that much, there should have been more hate threads before ME3's release. It's too late now and it's just a waste of time.

There were. Quite a few. But the premise is flawed. Liara was given plot arrmor in ME2; she was left out of the squad and therefore could not die on the suicide mission. Because of this, it was accepted from the beginning that Liara was going to return in some major capacity in ME3. Ashley/Kaiden could be dead just as much as Garrus and Tali so fans logically concluded that they wouldn't have much impact, if any (speculation was around that said all any character that could be dead would get was a small cameo; hence the "[X character] for squadmate and LI in ME3" banners).

Liara was the only guaranteed major character because she was the only one that would invariably be alive at the start of ME3. Liara fans hate Tali and Garrus fans because they got a whole game with their LI. At the time, Garrus and Tali fans hated Liara fans because Liara was guaranteed to be there in ME3 while their characters weren't. Basically, at the time having Garrus and Tali with us in ME2 was a mixed blessing.

We've all played the games enough by now to know how to make sure no one dies on the suicide mission. It's also been established since ME1 that Liara is a major player because of her role as part of Shepard's team. So the Liara haters were ignored pre-LotSB. That's unfortunate. Liara is a major player in the game, so of course she gets plot armor. Every character advances the plot in some way, certainly. But without Liara, we would have to rely on some other Prothean expert to move the plot along from ME1 on.

The problem here is that people dislike her character. If everyone loved her, there wouldn't be anything to argue about. That's a matter of preference.

[Arlionis]

[quote]Valentia X wrote...

[quote]Arlionis wrote...

[quote]grey_wind wrote...

[quote]Arlionis wrote...



These hate troll threads are ridiculous. Seriously, why is it always Liara? didn't we also have WAY too much Garrus and Tali? I mean, they forced them into the three games. Why was Tali even included in the ME3 crew when she has such a high death ratio in ME2 instead of including other more interesting characters like Jack, Samara or Miranda? isn't that unfair? [/quote]

They revealed on Twitter that Tali wasn't even supposed to return as a full squadmate in ME3 but they were going to include her out of fan demand. Dunno if that helps.
The problem most people have with Liara is that she's forced on the player as a good friend regardless of whether or not they care for the character. The same is true for Garrus, and to a lesser extent Tali, but the difference is that those two characters are insanely popular among the majority of the fanbase.[/quote]


Oh, and Liara isn't popular? besides, I see your reasoning to be extremely unsettling: so, are you telling me that forcing characters and constantly shoving them right on your face in EVERY Mass Effect game is just OK because they have a niche fanbase spamming the BSN forum? That's a bully attitude. I don't like Tali, I find her boring and shallow, why do I have to endure her in EVERY Mass Effect game at the expense of the developers wasting resources on her and not Jack, Samara, Miranda, Thane, et al?
Also, I might have to remember you that outside the BSN bubble Miranda was the most romanced LI in ME2.
[/quote]

There's also the issue that while you can mostly ignore Garrus and Tali throughout the games (you don't even have to recruit Garrus in the first one and Tali in the second), 
[/quote] 
 [/quote]  

Yes, you're forced to recuit Tali and Garrus in ME2 indirectly, otherwise you miss the ship upgrades and have other people dying during the SM. 


[quote] 
Liara is always there. And she always wants to be my friend.

Which is disturbing because I was rude to her in the first game, pretty dismissive in the second game (only invited her up to the ship for the cheevo once) and not that nice to her in the third game, either. Yet she still acts sweet on Shepard, and it makes me feel like she needs to go to therapy for co-dependancy issues.

Bottom line: Using Liara as a purveyor of information makes sense; she's been around a while, and a Prothean expert. But making her buddy-buddy with Shepard (and forcing Shepard to be buddy-buddy back in the third game) breaks immersion for Shepards who do not like her. You shouldn't have anyone forced on you like that. It's creepy and irritating.
[/quote]  

Unlike Tali, right? I didn't give her the Geth data and told her I didn't want her on the ship but udina forced me in ME1, took Veetor to Cerberus, got her corrupt father exposed, etc yet a few dialogs later she was talking about that "dashing commander". Ridiculous to be honest. 

Modifié par Arlionis, 15 mai 2012 - 03:09 .

[NubXL]

Not enough Liara. Never enough Liara.

[Isichar]

NubXL wrote...

Not enough Liara. Never enough Liara.

[Raiil]

Arlionis wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Arlionis wrote...



These hate troll threads are ridiculous. Seriously, why is it always Liara? didn't we also have WAY too much Garrus and Tali? I mean, they forced them into the three games. Why was Tali even included in the ME3 crew when she has such a high death ratio in ME2 instead of including other more interesting characters like Jack, Samara or Miranda? isn't that unfair?

They revealed on Twitter that Tali wasn't even supposed to return as a full squadmate in ME3 but they were going to include her out of fan demand. Dunno if that helps.
The problem most people have with Liara is that she's forced on the player as a good friend regardless of whether or not they care for the character. The same is true for Garrus, and to a lesser extent Tali, but the difference is that those two characters are insanely popular among the majority of the fanbase.

Oh, and Liara isn't popular? besides, I see your reasoning to be extremely unsettling: so, are you telling me that forcing characters and constantly shoving them right on your face in EVERY Mass Effect game is just OK because they have a niche fanbase spamming the BSN forum? That's a bully attitude. I don't like Tali, I find her boring and shallow, why do I have to endure her in EVERY Mass Effect game at the expense of the developers wasting resources on her and not Jack, Samara, Miranda, Thane, et al?
Also, I might have to remember you that outside the BSN bubble Miranda was the most romanced LI in ME2.

There's also the issue that while you can mostly ignore Garrus and Tali throughout the games (you don't even have to recruit Garrus in the first one and Tali in the second), 

 
 

  

Yes, you're forced to recuit Tali and Garrus in ME2 indirectly, otherwise you miss the ship upgrades and have other people dying during the SM. 

 
Liara is always there. And she always wants to be my friend.

Which is disturbing because I was rude to her in the first game, pretty dismissive in the second game (only invited her up to the ship for the cheevo once) and not that nice to her in the third game, either. Yet she still acts sweet on Shepard, and it makes me feel like she needs to go to therapy for co-dependancy issues.

Bottom line: Using Liara as a purveyor of information makes sense; she's been around a while, and a Prothean expert. But making her buddy-buddy with Shepard (and forcing Shepard to be buddy-buddy back in the third game) breaks immersion for Shepards who do not like her. You shouldn't have anyone forced on you like that. It's creepy and irritating.

  

Unlike Tali, right? I didn't give her the Geth data and told her I didn't want her on the ship but udina forced me in ME1, took Veetor to Cerberus, got her corrupt father exposed, etc yet a few dialogs later she was talking about that "dashing commander". Ridiculous to be honest. 

Udina forces you onto your ship, the same way Anderson forced Ashley onto my ship.

You don't have to talk to her. You don't have to do much interaction with her outside the group meetings.


You don't have to recruit Tali in the second game. I have done playthroughs where I didn't, and I accepted the consequences. 'Indirectly' means you still don't have to. You choose to priortise the ship's safety over your dislike of Tali. I don't get that option. I would rather bench Liara at the Catalyst and lose the potential EMS rather than have to deal with her in part 3, the same way as if I didn't want to deal with Tali, I could just kill her off. I would have to accept certain consequences in return, but that's okay. Now, where's my option to kill Liara off, or at least make her go away.

Oh, that's right. I can't.

Modifié par Valentia X, 15 mai 2012 - 03:18 .

[Arlionis]

[quote] 
Udina forces you onto your ship, the same way Anderson forced Ashley onto my ship.

You don't have to talk to her. You don't have to do much interaction with her outside the group meetings.
[quote] 

You seem to be missing your own point, I was talking about you you criticizing Liara for having "co-dependency issues"  when Tali is even worse. I treated her like crap in ME1 and yet she thought I was her super best friend quasi-boyfriend in ME2. 


[quote]Valentia X wrote... 
You don't have to recruit Tali in the second game. I have done playthroughs where I didn't, and I accepted the consequences. 'Indirectly' means you still don't have to. You choose to priortise the ship's safety over your dislike of Tali. I don't get that option. I would rather bench Liara at the Catalyst and lose the potential EMS rather than have to deal with her in part 3, the same way as if I didn't want to deal with Tali, I could just kill her off. I would have to accept certain consequences in return, but that's okay. Now, where's my option to kill Liara off, or at least make her go away.

Oh, that's right. I can't.
[/quote]


And risk having Legion or Jack killed? why? I like them, they're forcing me to recruit Tali, a character I don't like, so I don't get other people I like killed. You may feel OK with that kind of psychological blackmailing, I don't.

Modifié par Arlionis, 15 mai 2012 - 03:26 .

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

Imagine in ME3 there was a Renegade option on the wheel, "We're not friends."

Shepard: "You know what Liara, I appreciate your help as my Prothean expert but I really can't stand you. I'm sick of you trying to act all buddy-buddy with me all the time."

Liara: "'Buddy-buddy'? So taking the time to keep you updated on progress means I'm being too nice? I understand you always want to keep our talks strictly business, but this is just petty!"

Shepard: "I don't care what you call it. I don't like you, I treated you like crap for years now and I want you to shove it. Stay out of my cabin. I'd rather have Tali visit me instead of you."

Liara: *goes on some more about being unappreciated before storming out*

Next thing you know, the Shadow Broker and Prothean expert no longer wants anything to do with Shepard. Liara goes to work on the Crucible instead of being a quick go-to source for information. But Shepard doesn't care, because s/he has Traynor and EDI instead.

Nothing much would change, but that's just unprofessional to me. And unnecessarily mean. I agree that a confrontation like this could have at least been an option...but it isn't. Deal with it.

Modifié par Yoshiyuki Ly, 15 mai 2012 - 03:25 .

[Raiil]

Holy hell, our pyramid is going to eat the forums.

Why? Because it's my choice. I have a playthrough where only Garrus, Thane, and Legion survive. (yes, I even managed to kill off Miranda.) You keep misconstruing gameplay mechanic choices (if I don't do x, y and z will happen) with the removal of player agency in game. The game is forcing my Shepard to be nice to Liara and all but throwing her at my feet when I've made it abundantly clear that I don't like her.

You make calls- I want everyone to survive, so I must recruit X, Y, Z and do their loyalty missions-and they are entirely within your control. Where is my option to do the same?

[Gogzilla]

Golden Owl wrote...

Aside from the ending and MP enforcement to get the EMS up, I feel ME3 is a beautiful game...epic... But if there is one thing that really bugs me throughout the game itself, it's the over inclusion of Liara, I just felt dogged by her...she has the lions share of dialogs, lions share of enforced missions, lions share of essentiality, lions share of screen and Normandy time...I just felt she was on Sheps heels way too much with inclusion and cut scenes....Does anyone else feel this way?

I don't think there is too much liara , there is too little everyone else.

It inevitable that she be with you at the start because you only have her and Vega at that point.

but everytime you picked up another squad memeber they should have had as much dialogue as her.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 15 mai 2012 - 03:28 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...
 Deal with it.

You've lost the argument at this point...

[Arlionis]

Valentia X wrote...

Holy hell, our pyramid is going to eat the forums.

Why? Because it's my choice. I have a playthrough where only Garrus, Thane, and Legion survive. (yes, I even managed to kill off Miranda.) 

 

Fine, but that's YOU and only you, not me, not any other people. You may not feel Tali ridiculously forced, but I do. I don't want Jack or Legion dead, Jack is like a little sister to my Shepard. 

 
You keep misconstruing gameplay mechanic choices (if I don't do x, y and z will happen) with the removal of player agency in game. The game is forcing my Shepard to be nice to Liara and all but throwing her at my feet when I've made it abundantly clear that I don't like her.

 

As I've said and you keep ignoring it, that doesn't only happen with Liara, blame the game, not the character. I was centimeters away from curb stomping Tali in ME1 and ruining her life in ME2 and the game still kept forcing her as my "friend". 

 
You make calls- I want everyone to survive, so I must recruit X, Y, Z and do their loyalty missions-and they are entirely within your control. Where is my option to do the same?

In order to get people killed in ME2 you have to actively look for it , you can get Liara killed in ME3 if you actively look for it. 

Modifié par Arlionis, 15 mai 2012 - 03:33 .

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

There's nothing to argue about. You can either complain along with the OP or disagree with the OP. Hating on Liara's screentime and her role in the games is not going to make BW create some anti-Liara DLC. It's the same as complaining about the endings. If you want to argue, be my guest. That's not what I'm doing. I'm expressing my opinions and thoughts.

[GuardianAngel470]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

ME2: Liara is largely absent. Fans claim they want more Liara.
LotSB: More Liara for fans.
ME3: Fans see more Liara, again. Cheers for forethought from the writers.

Result:

Multiple hate threads about Liara (?).

Ah, but see those fans are not one and the same. The ones who wanted to see more Liara are for the most part content with how ME3 handled it and have been quiet whereas those who were content not having Liara around are now complaining about there being more Liara. It's all relative.

Indeed, it's relative. It makes me wonder if there was any refuting going on pre-LotSB about more Liara content. If there was enough, then I doubt LotSB would have even been implemented. If there wasn't any, or very little, you can't blame the writers for catering to the fans who spoke up about wanting more Liara. The way I see it, the writers thought, "Hey, we heard the fans like Liara, so let's give her more screentime." Now they're hearing all the angry people who don't like her (over-)inclusion and the writers and myself included are quite confused.

If these other fans really didn't like Liara that much, there should have been more hate threads before ME3's release. It's too late now and it's just a waste of time.

There were. Quite a few. But the premise is flawed. Liara was given plot arrmor in ME2; she was left out of the squad and therefore could not die on the suicide mission. Because of this, it was accepted from the beginning that Liara was going to return in some major capacity in ME3. Ashley/Kaiden could be dead just as much as Garrus and Tali so fans logically concluded that they wouldn't have much impact, if any (speculation was around that said all any character that could be dead would get was a small cameo; hence the "[X character] for squadmate and LI in ME3" banners).

Liara was the only guaranteed major character because she was the only one that would invariably be alive at the start of ME3. Liara fans hate Tali and Garrus fans because they got a whole game with their LI. At the time, Garrus and Tali fans hated Liara fans because Liara was guaranteed to be there in ME3 while their characters weren't. Basically, at the time having Garrus and Tali with us in ME2 was a mixed blessing.

We've all played the games enough by now to know how to make sure no one dies on the suicide mission. It's also been established since ME1 that Liara is a major player because of her role as part of Shepard's team. So the Liara haters were ignored pre-LotSB. That's unfortunate. Liara is a major player in the game, so of course she gets plot armor. Every character advances the plot in some way, certainly. But without Liara, we would have to rely on some other Prothean expert to move the plot along from ME1 on.

The problem here is that people dislike her character. If everyone loved her, there wouldn't be anything to argue about. That's a matter of preference.

You've missed the point. It's not a matter of how likely it is that X squadmate is dead, it's a matter of if X squadmate CAN be dead. At the time, the argument was made that because X squadmate COULD be dead, Bioware wasn't going to devote a whole lot of resources to that squadmate. And by and large it turned out to be true. Look at Jack, Miranda, Samara, Thane (dear god THANE), and the rest of that squad. Look at Ashley/Kaidan and how "thoroughly" their characters were fleshed out.

You argue that she's a major player so she gets plot armor when it could just as easily be that she's a major player BECAUSE she has plot armor. How coincidental would it be for a squadmate that could not be killed to just so happen to be the most important side character? In my opinion they go hand in hand and which comes first ultimately rests on information we aren't privy to.

Then it boils down to personal taste. You obviously like the character a lot but I detested her in ME1 then in ME2 I felt she was faking her entire life. LotSB was the only good experience I had with the character leading up to ME3.

Yet Liara and Shep are friends regardless, same as everyone else (especially Ashley). It's a removal of player control plain and simple.

[Raiil]

@Arlionis

You're missing the point.


You have choice. You have player agency. The game does not differentiate whether you like a character or not, it simply lets you make decisions that affect your squadmates.

You place Jack's importance you at, say, 10 (the highest). You place Tali's at, say, 2. Jack's importance outweighs your dislike of Tali. You are given the opportunity to decide Jack's fate.

I place Liara's emotional importance at 1. I am given no opportunity to decide Liara's fate. I can't even tell her to go away. Therein lies the difference. It's not enough that BioWare made Liara a super-genius expert on such an esoteric topic- that's fine in and of itself. It's when BioWare decided she needed to be my friend, too.

[grey_wind]

Arlionis wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Arlionis wrote...



These hate troll threads are ridiculous. Seriously, why is it always Liara? didn't we also have WAY too much Garrus and Tali? I mean, they forced them into the three games. Why was Tali even included in the ME3 crew when she has such a high death ratio in ME2 instead of including other more interesting characters like Jack, Samara or Miranda? isn't that unfair?

They revealed on Twitter that Tali wasn't even supposed to return as a full squadmate in ME3 but they were going to include her out of fan demand. Dunno if that helps.
The problem most people have with Liara is that she's forced on the player as a good friend regardless of whether or not they care for the character. The same is true for Garrus, and to a lesser extent Tali, but the difference is that those two characters are insanely popular among the majority of the fanbase.

Oh, and Liara isn't popular? besides, I see your reasoning to be extremely unsettling: so, are you telling me that forcing characters and constantly shoving them right on your face in EVERY Mass Effect game is just OK because they have a niche fanbase spamming the BSN forum? That's a bully attitude. I don't like Tali, I find her boring and shallow, why do I have to endure her in EVERY Mass Effect game at the expense of the developers wasting resources on her and not Jack, Samara, Miranda, Thane, et al?
Also, I might have to remember you that outside the BSN bubble Miranda was the most romanced LI in ME2.

Don't get me wrong. Sorry, I'm rereading my post and it's obvious my meaning wasn't clear enough.
I hate the fact that only Tali and Garrus were deemed popular enough to return from ME2. I wasn't defending the retarded "it's popular so it's okay" attitude, just pointing out that that's the attitude prevalent in a large section of the fanbase. I'm actually ticked off that the game forces you to be friends with all 3 characters; I love all 3 but I'd also like the option to tell all of them to jump off a cliff.

Modifié par grey_wind, 15 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[shepskisaac]

Arlionis wrote...

That statement is false, during the mid game Liara has almost no interactive dialog, while Garrus has two or three fully interactive dialogues, also up until the romance scene Garrus has 7 cutscenes while Liara has only 5. 
Let's not forget that Liara was also left out completely from the ME2 main game so she could serve as teh familiar face in ME3. If any, Garrus and Tali are the ones having excessive facetime (pun intended for Tali) in the ME franchise as a whole. 

In any case, it is simply a fact that Liara, Garrus & Tali are the holy trinity that recieved absolutely the most during the entire trilogy and in ME3 so everyone else should be prioritized over them in potential DLC

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 mai 2012 - 05:33 .

[Rolling Flame]

There's always one thing in these threads that make me laugh.

People who didn't romance Liara felt like that they were romancing, or being forced into romancing her.

People who did romance Liara felt like she was too distant for most of the game.

[Xeranx]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

ME2: Liara is largely absent. Fans claim they want more Liara.
LotSB: More Liara for fans.
ME3: Fans see more Liara, again. Cheers for forethought from the writers.

Result:

Multiple hate threads about Liara (?).

Ah, but see those fans are not one and the same. The ones who wanted to see more Liara are for the most part content with how ME3 handled it and have been quiet whereas those who were content not having Liara around are now complaining about there being more Liara. It's all relative.

Indeed, it's relative. It makes me wonder if there was any refuting going on pre-LotSB about more Liara content. If there was enough, then I doubt LotSB would have even been implemented. If there wasn't any, or very little, you can't blame the writers for catering to the fans who spoke up about wanting more Liara. The way I see it, the writers thought, "Hey, we heard the fans like Liara, so let's give her more screentime." Now they're hearing all the angry people who don't like her (over-)inclusion and the writers and myself included are quite confused.

If these other fans really didn't like Liara that much, there should have been more hate threads before ME3's release. It's too late now and it's just a waste of time.

There weren't hate threads, but many people voiced their displeasure at how familiar Liara could be with Shepard if they didn't pursue her.  That Liara always has physical contact with Shepard regardless of relationship status was something many people didn't like.

There's also the issue of the Genesis (?) comic that PS3 users got.  Not because PS3 users got it, but because of how it presented Liara to be above Kaidan and Ashley.  Many people weren't happy about that at all.

For those of us who preferred Ashley or Kaidan, those two occurrences annoyed us.  Then LOTSB came in and many (including myself) hoped the next dlc would feature the VS.  In fact, Arrival could have worked the VS into it very nicely, but it never happened.  That pretty much created the issue.  That's the tail end of ME2 before going into ME3.

Now in ME3, (speaking as someone who took Ashley with me everywhere) I was very annoyed at having Liara as a permanent fixture on the ship while Ashley was pretty much a cardboard cutout with a speaker attached after I got her back on the ship.  Imagine my dismay when I'm told that Ashley wants to talk to me and I find her on the floor drunk out of her mind.  For what reason was she drunk?  I don't remember.  Maybe there was a reason, but I was too caught up with the fact that I was summoned for nonsense.  Yet, Liara has more poignant conversations.  And let's not forget that Liara now occupies the room of our former (forced on us) XO.  I didn't like Miranda much either and certainly didn't consider her my second in command.  Then Liara occupies her room and pretty much assumes that station.

Yeah, if I was going to be a fan before, I'm definitely not now.

[Agent B406]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...
I'm expressing my opinions and thoughts.

....Which is what a majority of the people in this thread are doing, too.

[GuardianAngel470]

Rolling Flame wrote...

People who didn't romance Liara felt like that they were romancing, or being forced into romancing her.

I actually haven't seen this in this thread. Could you point out a specific post that says this? From what I've seen people that don't like her or are apathetic toward her feel like they got railroaded into being friends (not the same as romancing) when they didn't want to be friends.