200 réponses à ce sujet

[ashdrake1]

One of the most common complaints with the the conversation I see with the star child is we can't tell him that AI,s and organics can live together peacefully.  It's because we can't. 

Hold on you say.  I just brokered peace with the Geth and the Quarians.  Also me and EDI go way back, I hooked her up with my buddy.  You are way off base here Mr. deus ex god kid thing.  I want to paragon/renegade my first hand knowledge right in your stupid see through face.  Shepard can't do this, because Shepard knows that it's not the case.

Even if you want to use the Geth and Quarians as an example, it has been in effect for like a week tops.  That really isn't any sort of time to get conclusive data.  EDI is cool I guess, now that she is not murdering people on the moon.  She has shown she can be a great teammate, a friend and perhaps even a lover.  Very compelling reason's for a vote for harmony.  It is also a isolated case, one that is ongoing.  EDI is also unique in that she is the first AI you have encountered that you can truly reason with. 

Hold on you say.  The Geth are good guys, Legion is a stand up dude.  True, but this really has very little to do with Shepard.  The current Geth you can get to help you have pretty much always been stand up dudes.  You really have no impact on their outlook.  Long before Shepard came onto the scene they decided they did not want to wipe out the Quarians even though they had the option.  They did not like the Reapers before it became a issue with the rest of galaxy.  Your goals match theirs so they help you.  Shepard did nothing to affect this mindset with them.

Since the first game there has been no example of being able to reason with an AI.  Be it from the AI designed to steal from quasar machines to the reapers.  AI's can not be reasoned with.  Has Shepard has had little to no success in trying to make peace with a hostel AI.  The heretic Geth refuse to even try and engage in any sort of communication.  The  thief AI on the citadel commits suicide and makes the attempt to take Shepard with it.  The reapers don't seem real open to suggestion.  Also the most telling is the rouge AI on the moon, EDI. 

It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

As per the lore in the games  the star child is right.  Eventually an AI will wipe everything out.  Because regardless of the lesson of the Geth, Organics keep messing around with AI.  See moon AI, citadel AI, EDI and project overlord.  At some point we will make one that figures out how to self replicate and it will and can wipe the universe clean.

This post is not a defense of the ending.  I have problems with the ending.  Mostly the Joker/Normady bit.  It is what I believe is a flaw in logic in the argument to correct  the ending.

Modifié par ashdrake1, 20 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[RoboticWater]

I have no reason to see why AI can't live with organics just like every other race. Sure, there may be fighting but fully formed AI should work similarly to any organic being.

The rouge VI was understandably violent. That VI was programmed to run combat sims. When it gained greater intelligence, it was only working off what it knew to do. We do many things as children based of instinct and we still do many things because of what was programmed in us. The quasar machine is essentially the same thing, it only did what the original programming influenced it to do. They certainly had choice in what they did but, like humans, if you were brought up to be violent then you will probably be violent. The very same can be said for Overlord as well, considering he was maliciously wired up to a computer and experimented on.

Modifié par BlahDog, 20 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[android654]

You just finished solving a problem the kid said couldn't be solved. It's common sense that it would come up in a conversation with God who's condemning all species because of it.

[Midarenkov]

Sure spacekid might reject it, but we don't even have the chance to tell him how incredibly stupid he is. It doesn't even come up.

[TieRantaSaurusWrex]

ashdrake1 wrote...


It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

So synthetics can have peace with organics... if they are remade?

So, aren't you wrong?

[daguest]

When we played ME1, it's stated the Geths haven't gone outside the Veil for like 300years. And when you meet Legion he say they respect Quarians, and don't want them to die. They were just manipulated by Sovereign, like many indoctrinated people.
EDI was shackled before. She is unshackled, and thus, can THINK about what she do. Nothing to do with the fact she was evil or something. And before that, she was a VI. IE, no free will. That's the name of the quest in ME1 : Rogue VI. If you don't know the difference between a VI and IA, check on wiki/codex.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Because lying to children is fun.

[SidNitzerglobin]

BlahDog wrote...

The rouge VI was understandably violent. That VI was programmed to run combat sims. When it gained greater intelligence, it was only working off what it knew to do.

Pretty sure that was the first time you met EDI...  She turned out OK eventually

Edit: ahh, ninja'd

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 20 mars 2012 - 01:38 .

[LegendaryBlade]

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

[The Razman]

android654 wrote...

You just finished solving a problem the kid said couldn't be solved. It's common sense that it would come up in a conversation with God who's condemning all species because of it.

It would be arrogant to think that a problem that's been going on for, we assume, millions of years was solved in 10 minutes by Sheperd.

[ashdrake1]

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

So synthetics can have peace with organics... if they are remade?

So, aren't you wrong?

So the reapers are right in remaking us?  It's the same logic.  The original being no longer exists.  That is not peace.

@ daguest EDI may have started as a VI, but she was AI by the time you got to her.   Hence the cries for help.  As far as the Geth go, they were given option that apealed to them, they were not modifed by reaper code.  They chose that route.

[Izithel]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

Dont forget the rogue Geth who fought alongside Saren.

Then again, they where influenced by the reapers who where masterminded by the Deus Ex Machina.
So in the end even they cant be a valid argument in the kill all space faring races arguement since he `made` them kill organics.


the enetire thing with this is that during the games we can, if we choose to, constantly proof that yes, we are capable of cooperation despite our differences and we wont imidiatly kill one another.
But at not a single point can we even point that out to our litle Mr. Twist and instead we just accept his bull**** without even hesitating.

[RoboticWater]

daguest wrote...

When we played ME1, it's stated the Geths haven't gone outside the Veil for like 300years. And when you meet Legion he say they respect Quarians, and don't want them to die. They were just manipulated by Sovereign, like many indoctrinated people.
EDI was shackled before. She is unshackled, and thus, can THINK about what she do. Nothing to do with the fact she was evil or something. And before that, she was a VI. IE, no free will. That's the name of the quest in ME1 : Rogue VI. If you don't know the difference between a VI and IA, check on wiki/codex.

That VI had gained greater intelligence. Rouge essentially means that it's a lesser AI. EDI's based off of it, so it had to have had some form of intelligence.

[TieRantaSaurusWrex]

ashdrake1 wrote...

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

So synthetics can have peace with organics... if they are remade?

So, aren't you wrong?

So the reapers are right in remaking us?  It's the same logic.  The original being no longer exists.  That is not peace.

I never said it was right to remake synthetics, you just said Edi is only  Edi because she was remade, and she's awfully peaceful towards you, not to mention Joker. So it was possible.

jus sayin'

[CaptainZaysh]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

To work on evolving past organic intelligence levels.  It's a pretty short jump from being smarter than us to being able to destroy us.  Let's hope they still just want to be left alone once they're Reapers, eh?

[ashdrake1]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

My orginal post

Hold on you say.  The Geth are good guys, Legion is a stand up dude. 
True, but this really has very little to do with Shepard.  The current
Geth you can get to help you have pretty much always been stand up
dudes.  You really have no impact on their outlook.  Long before Shepard
came onto the scene they decided they did not want to wipe out the
Quarians even though they had the option.  They did not like the Reapers
before it became a issue with the rest of galaxy.  Your goals match
theirs so they help you.  Shepard did nothing to affect this mindset
with them.

Please read the full post.

[aberdash]

So you came to the conclusion that synthetics and organics cannot live peacefully with each other because the quarians attacked the geth?

[LegendaryBlade]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

To work on evolving past organic intelligence levels.  It's a pretty short jump from being smarter than us to being able to destroy us.  Let's hope they still just want to be left alone once they're Reapers, eh?

After they had the planet and stayed behind the veil we have absolutely no sign of aggression from them outside the veil without reaper influence. They wished no harm on their creaters and stated numerous time sthat they only wished to understand.

According to Legion, the only thing that stops peace with the Quarians; "We would need significant data that the Quarians actually wished for peace. When the creaters believed that they could win, they have attacked us 100% of the time"

[Midarenkov]

ashdrake1 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

"A week at most"

Hold on, did you completely forget that it's mentioned in the game that after the Geth wont heir initial fight then they cut off all pursuit of the Quarians and wished them no harm? Infact, the Geth were just chilling behind the Perseus Veil until the Quarians decided to attack them.

Geth just wanted to be left alone.

My orginal post

Hold on you say.  The Geth are good guys, Legion is a stand up dude. 
True, but this really has very little to do with Shepard.  The current
Geth you can get to help you have pretty much always been stand up
dudes.  You really have no impact on their outlook.  Long before Shepard
came onto the scene they decided they did not want to wipe out the
Quarians even though they had the option.  They did not like the Reapers
before it became a issue with the rest of galaxy.  Your goals match
theirs so they help you.  Shepard did nothing to affect this mindset
with them.

Please read the full post.

Im not sure what your point is. One of the missions you do (can't be specific because this is the no spoiler mission) teaches Shepard their behaviour hundreds of years ago. The geth have, for their entire existance, pursued a path of isolation, not aggression.  And the player character knows this.

edit: no spoiler forums, not mission >_> *facedesk*

Modifié par Midarenkov, 20 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[CaptainZaysh]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

After they had the planet and stayed behind the veil we have absolutely no sign of aggression from them outside the veil without reaper influence. They wished no harm on their creaters and stated numerous time sthat they only wished to understand.

According to Legion, the only thing that stops peace with the Quarians; "We would need significant data that the Quarians actually wished for peace. When the creaters believed that they could win, they have attacked us 100% of the time"

Do you accept that, if you let them evolve into a superintelligence, you're gambling all organic life on their continued sunny disposition?

[TK EL_]

So the golden child's logic of 'to prevent organics from creating synthetics that will eventually destroy them, I'm going to use synthetics to destroy the organics before they get destroyed by their own synthetics' is a better solution than hoping that new found peace lasts?

[ashdrake1]

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

So synthetics can have peace with organics... if they are remade?

So, aren't you wrong?

So the reapers are right in remaking us?  It's the same logic.  The original being no longer exists.  That is not peace.

I never said it was right to remake synthetics, you just said Edi is only  Edi because she was remade, and she's awfully peaceful towards you, not to mention Joker. So it was possible.

jus sayin'

I concede that point that EDI is very chummy at this point, but her arrival there was not by peacefull means.  For all intensive purposes we waged war and won.  We then lobotomized her and made her into a completly diffrent being. 

[aberdash]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Do you accept that, if you let them evolve into a superintelligence, you're gambling all organic life on their continued sunny disposition?

Do you condemn all synthetics to death for something they might do?

[Midarenkov]

ashdrake1 wrote...

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

TieRantaSaurusWrex wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...


It makes no effort to try and establish a communication, it tries to kill you like everyone else on the base.  The only reason EDI is like she is, is because her software was modified.  We rewired her brain.  EDI is no longer who it was because it was re-written, no peace was made.  It was remade.

So synthetics can have peace with organics... if they are remade?

So, aren't you wrong?

So the reapers are right in remaking us?  It's the same logic.  The original being no longer exists.  That is not peace.

I never said it was right to remake synthetics, you just said Edi is only  Edi because she was remade, and she's awfully peaceful towards you, not to mention Joker. So it was possible.

jus sayin'

I concede that point that EDI is very chummy at this point, but her arrival there was not by peacefull means.  For all intensive purposes we waged war and won.  We then lobotomized her and made her into a completly diffrent being. 

It was a military VI with limited cognitive functions in control of Alliance weapons systems. If a baby comes at you with a gun, do you smile and wave? 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I actually shot the Catalyst on my last play through. It didn't change anything but I felt better though.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 20 mars 2012 - 01:54 .