169 réponses à ce sujet

[Aidunno]

Rather than get into mages can do this, can't do this, simply consider: you have the choice of what you want to use/not use. As such, as this is a single player game, does it really matter ? I play games for enjoyment not to boost my ego. Having a variety of classes with different capabilities, even different "difficulties" only adds to the replay value.



Can agree with the graphic choices but then I normally never know what "options" would be best so leave them defaulted unless I run into problems.

[robertthebard]

deathwing200 wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

"OH HO!  Someone has a different opinion of me!  He must be ignorrant, for only *I* am smart enough to know all!" 

Your opinion isn't different. It is wrong.

Here, I'll demonstrate the difference between an opinion that cannot be wrong vs one that can:

1) Mona Lisa is a bad painting (= opinion that cannot be right or wrong)
2) Earth is flat (=incorrect opinion)

See?

  Mages are powerful.  I've said so before, in this thread.  BUT: As I've also said mages have the counter of being easy to kill.  And they are.

And I'll repeat: Mages are NOT easy to kill because:

1) They have many CC spells
2) They fight at range
3) They have defensive buffs
4) They have LoS ignoring spells
5) They have AoE CC

  Because not ONE of those spells you've described, even the dreaded 'cone of cold' always works 100% of the time.  All it takes is one heavy tank to make a saving throw and a few slashes of a sword later your mage is shish ka bob. 

Yeah, if you stand there like a tool and let your mage be hacked to bits. Look, I solo'd this game on hard with mage. I am now soloing it on Nightmare. I know what I am doing. Just because YOU think something doesn't work, does not make it so. For the record, if cone resists, you paralyze or crushing prison or force field or... well just look at the spells you have and use your head.

Mages do NOT have as many hitpoints as warriors.

They don't need to, since they don't melee.

And although they have spells that increase armor and defense, a mage who concentrates on not being hittable won't have very many offensive spells will he?  By the same token, a mage who concentrates on being a fearsome god of Death Dealing is skimping on personal protection.

...? Rock armor is needed for stonefist (=required spell). Arcane Shield is needed for mastery+arcane t4 spellpower bonus. That's the only two protections you need - I usually skip armor in 90% of the fights. 

Another thing, you keep talking about one on one situations.  But there are very few of those in this game.  For instance, let's take one of the street ambushes in Denerim where you're facing 20+ guardsmen spread out.  How do you think a solo mage will handle that?   Blizzard would work, or sleep, but by the time you get it off you'll have about a half dozen meleers on you.  So, you cast cone of cold, but if you're surrounded you'll only get 2, 3 folks.  What next, paralyse?  Single person, unless you're of such a high level you have an AE paralyse in which case you'd probably be long past this point of the game, but I digress.  Ok, you cast paralyse on the remainder.  Maybe that'll even get the additional meleers who lagged behind the first half dozen.  You still have a bunch of archers to take care of, and they've been shooting you full of holes.  You'll also be running a little low on mana, which sucks because now those guys in the cone of cold are defrosting.  Of course, that is if there isn't any mob who succeeded in saving against your spells and has been hitting you with his sword this whole time.  One mage, by himself, is going to be dead shortly in that scenario.  Which is why we're NOT alone; we have 3 party members who will try and keep people OFF the mage so the mage can do his job of rapid killing.  

I solo'd those encounters with a mage on hard and easily.  If you weren't bad, you'd realize that these sorts of encounters are free XP to a mage. Just to humor you, I'll tell you what to do:

1) Throw Blizzard on the ground BEFORE the dialogue initiates
2) Initiate the dialogue, bandits go hostile
3) Bandits are frozen/knocked down from Blizzard as soon as they go hostile
4) You cast mass paralysis
5) You kill everything and collect XP
7) (Optional) If you're getting low on health/mana, you drink one of your 99x potion stacks.

Yeah, because Blizzard's area gets increased to cover the ranged attackers that hit you with Shatter Shot.  In a scenario where all the mobs are in a small area, that might even work, but in one of the encounters in the alleys, there are mobs outside the AoE of Blizzard, and, despite your claims to the contrary, it's not a guarenteed freeze.  I suppose if I'd never played this game I wouldn't know that.  One Scatter Shot, and you're reloading.  No, it's affect isn't long, but it's long enough.  However, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.

[throttlesays]

So all the people who soloed the game with a mage were really just lying?



I just don't get why people keep trying to come up with arguments on the thinnest possible pretense of logic and intellect.

[Pocketgb]

Godeshus wrote...

I've seen quite a few posts where people mention solo runs on nightmare with either rogue or warrior. Haven't tried it myself, but clearly these classes cannot be broken if the possibility exists. On Nightmare, no less.

Awesome class or broken AI and exploiting? Quite a bit of it is the latter two, but it's still admirable nonetheless.

Of course, then you get into the argument of who can solo it better and then the whole cycle continues. Personally I don't think it should be possible for one character to solo an area designed for 4, but that's just me.

Godeshus wrote...

And yes, you are entirely correct.

Beacause 2h is an awesome and viable tree. Not to mention auto-attacking is insane amounts of fun.

Derp.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 30 novembre 2009 - 12:49 .

[F-C]

i just always see the same people posting in these threads complaining about mages, its always the same vocal minority who suffer the same flaws. they are either terrible at building melee classes and never have enough stamina and call melee 'auto attack classes', or they are terrible at playing the game and think using basic tactics like pulling are exploiting the ai.

im just glad the developers are more intelligent than this small group of vocal people who are really the lowest denominator of the gaming community.

[deathwing200]

robertthebard wrote...

Yeah, because Blizzard's area gets increased to cover the ranged attackers that hit you with Shatter Shot.  In a scenario where all the mobs are in a small area, that might even work, but in one of the encounters in the alleys, there are mobs outside the AoE of Blizzard, and, despite your claims to the contrary, it's not a guarenteed freeze.  I suppose if I'd never played this game I wouldn't know that.  One Scatter Shot, and you're reloading.  No, it's affect isn't long, but it's long enough.  However, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.

You can LoS archers.

No, you are not reloading, even if one scatters you because all melee is frozen - once blizzard is up, first thing u do is vulnerability hex + crushing prison on leader. Then LoS archers around the corners so they can't all hit you at once. Cone of cold any melees that get through.

Seriously, explaining tactics to obvious 14 year old console players is like pulling teeth.

[Pocketgb]

deathwing200 wrote...

Cone of cold any melees that get through.

Including archers who somehow get through all that and think it's smart to run to the corner

When's the last time there was an actual "good" AI system?

[throttlesays]

i just always see the same people posting in these threads complaining
about mages, its always the same vocal minority who suffer the same
flaws. they are either terrible at building melee classes and never
have enough stamina and call melee 'auto attack classes', or they are
terrible at playing the game and think using basic tactics like pulling
are exploiting the ai.

im just glad the developers are more
intelligent than this small group of vocal people who are really the
lowest denominator of the gaming community.

I always see the same people posting in these threads defending the grotesquely overpowered state of mages. They always present the argument that it doesn't matter because it's a single player game, or the original and rational "learn to play". I will fabricate statements on their behalf and cleverly say things that make them look worse so as to bolster my side of the story without actually being right.

Clearly anyone who does not share my opinion is the lowest denominator, and can conveniently be written off as a minority because that makes them seem less worthy than "us". I like to refuse any change that doesn't benefit me because I share the senior citizen view that any change is bad, or because I want to present myself as a person of high moral fiber by being able to point out how people are weak for wanting something changed.

I am not hindered by such burdens as rational thinking or the ability to see things from any point of view but my own.

Translation free of charge.

Modifié par throttlesays, 30 novembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[robertthebard]

deathwing200 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...


Ahahahahhahhhahahahahahahahhahaha, *cough* hahahaha...Yeah, until you get to Zevran's ambush, and get your can't take a few hits ass owned by the ranged assassins.  I guess replayability means reloading the same encounter for 12 hours trying to find a way to get a squishy through it?

Except zevran ambush is easily soloable if mage has mass paralysis. Try playing the game instead of being theorycrafting forum hero, yeah?

Gladly.  Ranged assassins, x3 on the left, ranged assasins x2 on the right, and a mage in the middle, AoE on Mass Paralysis does not cover the entire map where the ambush takes place.  All it takes is for one ranged assassin to save, and one scatter shot later, you're full of arrows.  Since it's likely that more than one will be free anyway, yeah.  I have played the game, look at my profile.  Please spin your fiction on the "We're looking to buy this game" forums, instead of on the forums with people that have actually played it.  As I said though, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.  You can tell yourself anything you want, however.  I'd watch a fraps vid though, if you care to provide one?

[Titanmike357]

aymanhaq wrote...

First of the all is the mage issue. Either nerf mages or buff the other two classes. This can be done via buffing the gear they use or, the classes themselves, or a combination. Point is it needs to be done. Ive been doing research on this and apparently alot of other users agree.
Secondly the limited graphics options available. This hits PC versions hard. Users should be able to customize the graphics as much as possible to maximize framerates while not killing too much detail. Using bars that dumbs down a third of the game is ridiculous. How difficult would it be to make those options available? I figured that Bioware would learn from their mistake with NWN2. This game is excellent, but im actually shelving it for now. Until these issues get fixed (particularly the first one).
Anyone who agrees/disagrees please comment. Hopefully issues listed in this thread will eventually get patched.

Devs please get these patches to fix these two issues out.

Nah, Rogues are fine, and warriors are fine.

My rogue Str/Dex build is doing 51-54% of the damage of my entire party, that includes a mage ( morrgian ) and shale and sten.

My warrior can wade waist deep in mobs and survive where anything else won't.

Mages, well they are good at what they do, but suck at melee even with AW, I figure they are all about even, maybe you should learn the classes better?:innocent:


Game looks good to me, but my 4870 allows me to override the games setting if I wish on most things with the ATI controll panel.

[Pocketgb]

Running 2h, Titan?

[MR-9]

I laugh almost uncontrollably each time an NPC mage hits me with a fireball at point blank range and burns to death from the DoT that follows while I simply throw out a quick group heal.



AI doesn't have the ability to place a fireball at a specific spot on the ground, behavior dictates they must aim it at a person, which is a pretty unwise choice.

[robertthebard]

deathwing200 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Yeah, because Blizzard's area gets increased to cover the ranged attackers that hit you with Shatter Shot.  In a scenario where all the mobs are in a small area, that might even work, but in one of the encounters in the alleys, there are mobs outside the AoE of Blizzard, and, despite your claims to the contrary, it's not a guarenteed freeze.  I suppose if I'd never played this game I wouldn't know that.  One Scatter Shot, and you're reloading.  No, it's affect isn't long, but it's long enough.  However, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.

You can LoS archers.

No, you are not reloading, even if one scatters you because all melee is frozen - once blizzard is up, first thing u do is vulnerability hex + crushing prison on leader. Then LoS archers around the corners so they can't all hit you at once. Cone of cold any melees that get through.

Seriously, explaining tactics to obvious 14 year old console players is like pulling teeth.

I love how, on forums, when people point something out that disagrees with an expressed fact, they are now 14 year olds.  My daughter is likely older than you, so I'd curb that.  Any semblence of credibility you might have wanted to build just flew out the window.  It's the "ZOMG, he just made me look stupid, I'd better blast him" mentality that is prevalent on MMO forums.  LOL, go back to WoW...  Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Pocketgb]

MR-9 wrote...

I laugh almost uncontrollably each time an NPC mage hits me with a fireball at point blank range and burns to death from the DoT that follows while I simply throw out a quick group heal.

AI doesn't have the ability to place a fireball at a specific spot on the ground, behavior dictates they must aim it at a person, which is a pretty unwise choice.

/shudder I don't want to count the number of fights I've won that were ended with an enemy AoE...far, far too many...

[F-C]

throttlesays wrote...

i just always see the same people posting in these threads complaining
about mages, its always the same vocal minority who suffer the same
flaws. they are either terrible at building melee classes and never
have enough stamina and call melee 'auto attack classes', or they are
terrible at playing the game and think using basic tactics like pulling
are exploiting the ai.

im just glad the developers are more
intelligent than this small group of vocal people who are really the
lowest denominator of the gaming community.

I
always see the same people posting in these threads defending the
grotesquely overpowered state of mages. They always present the
argument that it doesn't matter because it's a single player game, or
the original and rational "learn to play". I will fabricate statements
on their behalf and cleverly say things that make them look worse so as
to bolster my side of the story without actually being right.

Clearly
anyone who does not share my opinion is the lowest denominator, and can
conveniently be written off as a minority because that makes them seem
less worthy than "us". I like to refuse any change that doesn't benefit
me because I share the senior citizen view that any change is bad, or
because I want to present myself as a person of high moral fiber by
being able to point out how people are weak for wanting something
changed.

I am not hindered by such burdens as rational thinking or the ability to see things from any point of view but my own.

Translation free of charge.

you want to see an example then?

Pocketgb wrote...

Running 2h, Titan?

there you go, someone complaining who is terrible at making a 2hd warrior and thinks the game is broken because of it.

we have even had moderators come on here and tell us that you need stack willpower with a 2hd warrior so you can spam abilities to make it good.

telling us their 2hd warrior who ended up with 40 something willpower was simply amazing in combat.

yet you have this same bad player here days later convinced 2hd is just terrible and whining about it.

he is the lowest denominator, he is bad at the game, its just a fact.

Modifié par F-C, 30 novembre 2009 - 01:13 .

[deathwing200]

robertthebard wrote...

Gladly.  Ranged assassins, x3 on the left, ranged assasins x2 on the right, and a mage in the middle, AoE on Mass Paralysis does not cover the entire map where the ambush takes place.  All it takes is for one ranged assassin to save, and one scatter shot later, you're full of arrows.  Since it's likely that more than one will be free anyway, yeah.  I have played the game, look at my profile.  Please spin your fiction on the "We're looking to buy this game" forums, instead of on the forums with people that have actually played it.  As I said though, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.  You can tell yourself anything you want, however.  I'd watch a fraps vid though, if you care to provide one?

/sigh

I told you to stop theorycrafting and actually play the game. Archers do not use scattershot in that particular encounter. You run rock armor+arcane shield during that fight and cast mass paralysis on the middle group (the one with 2 mages). The ranged assassin CANNOT kill you through potion spam because your second move is to Blizzard the 3 archers to pretty much remove them from battle (with good +cold dmg, one blizz + 1 bolt kills them). You nuke down mages first and melee is a joke with cone obviously. Once again, you can potion spam through archer damage.

I will repeat once again: I do not have to prove anything to terribles infesting this forum. who can't beat the game with full party on normal (you seem to fit the profile). I am 1/5 this game solo through NM and I solo'd on hard fully, posting a guide detailing every step. You don't have to believe **** and I am not exactly interesting in proving anything to internet forum heroes who don't even take the time to learn to play.

[Pocketgb]

2H is indeed able to get those abilities down to use when you get a hefty amount of Willpower.



And even still, compared to DW, the DPS is abysmal. DW doesn't have to sacrifice any of their stats for Willpower to achieve amazing DPS. Get Momentum, max dmg runes, and lolfacepwn guys with red bars over their heads. 2H hits slow, has one worthwhile sustain, has a T4 ability that's worse than a T1, devotes a whole skill slot towards golems and contructs (!?!?!?!?), and suffers much more from missing.



In general, 2H is a very lackluster spec with very little inspiration backing it.



Why is it being crappy a big deal? Because it's the Warrior's only other unique skill tree. His other two DPS paths are the same as what the Rogue has, and thus the class is only able to earn it's identity through specializations.

[MR-9]

deathwing200 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Gladly.  Ranged assassins, x3 on the left, ranged assasins x2 on the right, and a mage in the middle, AoE on Mass Paralysis does not cover the entire map where the ambush takes place.  All it takes is for one ranged assassin to save, and one scatter shot later, you're full of arrows.  Since it's likely that more than one will be free anyway, yeah.  I have played the game, look at my profile.  Please spin your fiction on the "We're looking to buy this game" forums, instead of on the forums with people that have actually played it.  As I said though, it's your world, I'm just a figment in it.  You can tell yourself anything you want, however.  I'd watch a fraps vid though, if you care to provide one?

/sigh

I told you to stop theorycrafting and actually play the game. Archers do not use scattershot in that particular encounter. You run rock armor+arcane shield during that fight and cast mass paralysis on the middle group (the one with 2 mages). The ranged assassin CANNOT kill you through potion spam because your second move is to Blizzard the 3 archers to pretty much remove them from battle (with good +cold dmg, one blizz + 1 bolt kills them). You nuke down mages first and melee is a joke with cone obviously. Once again, you can potion spam through archer damage.

I will repeat once again: I do not have to prove anything to terribles infesting this forum. who can't beat the game with full party on normal (you seem to fit the profile). I am 1/5 this game solo through NM and I solo'd on hard fully, posting a guide detailing every step. You don't have to believe **** and I am not exactly interesting in proving anything to internet forum heroes who don't even take the time to learn to play.

Careful with those campaign spoilers, son.

[F-C]

Pocketgb wrote...

2H is indeed able to get those abilities down to use when you get a hefty amount of Willpower.

And even still, compared to DW, the DPS is abysmal. DW doesn't have to sacrifice any of their stats for Willpower to achieve amazing DPS. Get Momentum, max dmg runes, and lolfacepwn guys with red bars over their heads. 2H hits slow, has one worthwhile sustain, has a T4 ability that's worse than a T1, devotes a whole skill slot towards golems and contructs (!?!?!?!?), and suffers much more from missing.

In general, 2H is a very lackluster spec with very little inspiration backing it.

Why is it being crappy a big deal? Because it's the Warrior's only other unique skill tree. His other two DPS paths are the same as what the Rogue has, and thus the class is only able to earn it's identity through specializations.

you havent even tried it, just shut up.

your comments on 2hd warriors just a few minutes ago here prove it

Pocketgb wrote...
Beacause 2h is an awesome and viable tree. Not to mention auto-attacking is insane amounts of fun.

Derp.

you think its going to boil down to auto attack, when its the spamming of attacks that makes 2hd good.
it sucks  for you because you suck at making one properly.

[Pocketgb]

F-C wrote...

you havent even tried it

lol

[WillieStyle]

F-C wrote...

you havent even tried it, just shut up.

your comments on 2hd warriors just a few minutes ago here prove it

Pocketgb wrote...
Beacause 2h is an awesome and viable tree. Not to mention auto-attacking is insane amounts of fun.

Derp.

you think its going to boil down to auto attack, when its the spamming of attacks that makes 2hd good.
it sucks  for you because you suck at making one properly.

Well I have tried it.  I gave my 2H warrior 40 willpower.  I had Wynne cast rejuv on him whenever he got below 25% stamina, and I had her cast mass rejuv whenever he was below 75% stamina.  He was basically cooldown limitted in that scenario.  Further, I made sure I wasn't fighting enemies that stun/knockdown and so didn't turn on indomitable.  I had him spamming all his activated abilities.  He still did less damage than my dual-wielding warrior just using momentum and auto-attack.  Throw in dual-weapon sweep/whirlwind and it's not even close.  2H warriors are terrible.  No amount of willpower will change that.

[F-C]

WillieStyle wrote...

F-C wrote...

you havent even tried it, just shut up.

your comments on 2hd warriors just a few minutes ago here prove it

Pocketgb wrote...
Beacause 2h is an awesome and viable tree. Not to mention auto-attacking is insane amounts of fun.

Derp.

you think its going to boil down to auto attack, when its the spamming of attacks that makes 2hd good.
it sucks  for you because you suck at making one properly.

Well I have tried it.  I gave my 2H warrior 40 willpower.  I had Wynne cast rejuv on him whenever he got below 25% stamina, and I had her cast mass rejuv whenever he was below 75% stamina.  He was basically cooldown limitted in that scenario.  Further, I made sure I wasn't fighting enemies that stun/knockdown and so didn't turn on indomitable.  I had him spamming all his activated abilities.  He still did less damage than my dual-wielding warrior just using momentum and auto-attack.  Throw in dual-weapon sweep/whirlwind and it's not even close.  2H warriors are terrible.  No amount of willpower will change that.

i dont feel like digging through the posts to find the one where the moderator basically tells you how to play a 2hd to make it good, but i can tell you now you are doing something wrong.

anyways trying to argue this with the same small group of people who are convinced the game is broken and will never change their mind is rather pointless.

even when the developers and moderators come on and tell people how to build their characters and basically how to play them, and how good they are in their hands, you still have this same small group of whiners here who are convinced the game is broken.

its pretty futile.

Modifié par F-C, 30 novembre 2009 - 01:35 .

[Pocketgb]

I'll admit that it's DPS is a bit of an upgrade compared to the stats that most people stack, but it still doesn't top DW - and that's because it's a poorly implemented tree with slow-as-hell weapons with half the amount of runes a DW'er will get. No amount of stam stacking or developer commentary will change this.

[WillieStyle]

F-C wrote...

even when the developers and moderators come on and tell people how to build their characters and basically how to play them, and how good they are in their hands, you still have this same small group of whiners here who are convinced the game is broken.

I thought the developers' official position is that 2H warrior aren't balanced for dps but for "utility".  If there's a way to make them put out comparable dps to a dual-wield warrior I'm all ears.

I think you misunderstand the mindset of min/maxers.  Min/maxers love to take seemingly underpowered classes/talents and find ways to make them shine.  We love digging into game mechanics and finding creative ways to boost our power.  If you can provide a 2H warrior build that does comparable dps to a dual-wield warrior, you'll be a min/max hero.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 30 novembre 2009 - 01:44 .

[throttlesays]

even when the developers and moderators come on and tell people how to build their characters and basically how to play them, and how good they are in their hands, you still have this same small group of whiners here who are convinced the game is broken.

Because the developers made no mistakes whatsoever in designing this game's combat aspect, and everything they do is divinely correct and infallible. Experiments that result in evidence to the contrary should be met with outright insults for their insolence in disagreeing. How intelligent.