122 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

thats1evildude wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

Not to mention his dead sibling's spouse (ew).

Yeah, there's that as well. It just adds to the creepiness of the whole affair.

At one time it was a common practice.  Look up the history of levirate.

[Kavatica]

Silfren wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

Not to mention his dead sibling's spouse (ew).

Yeah, there's that as well. It just adds to the creepiness of the whole affair.

At one time it was a common practice.  Look up the history of levirate.

I'm aware of that. But how is that even a factor? Just because something is historically accurate, that doesn't make it right...or any less disgusting. 

Modifié par Kavatica, 18 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[Kavatica]

Silfren wrote...

Playing a Mage Warden female, I was able to get Alistair to marry Anora WITHOUT bringing it up to both of them in Arl Eamon's estate.

I hardened Alistair, was at 100 approval (love in this case), had high coercion, and killed Loghain myself. I was able to get them to marry by choosing that persuade option when asked to choose during the Landsmeet.

Couldn't a male Warden do this as well? I don't see anything really different about the two scenarios: Have the male PC harden Alistair, make sure someone other than Alistair kills Loghain, and (with both high approval and a high coercion skill) persuade them to marry during the Landsmeet.

Based on my experience I don't think it is necessary to bring up the option at Eamon's estate so long as those other conditions are met.

Interesting. I'd always thought that was a requirement. Thanks!

[valentine3]

I personally did'nt want Anora to be queen.I thought she was way to manipulative.
For one ,she probably new about Calian and Celene( Anore is very clever) and when I did the return to Ostagar mission ,I found a note from Eamon to Calian,about Anora being barren and thus Calian should consider a new queen.(for a heir)
I think she tricked Logain into doing her durty work. I think she told Loghain.knowing how he felt about Orlesians,the idea of having orlesian wardens,and Calain leaving his doghter for an orlesian(Celen making her queen)And that might have been to much for him.Thus it might also bee a reason why he turned his back on Calian.
I also think that Ferelden was'nt her real consern.She new about the blight and that they needed Orlais and that Loghain might cause a civil war ,but did nothing about it.She herself said that she really rueled ferelden instead of calian for all those years so if ferelden was her consern she would have told her dad to back off and let her handle thing,because she's queen and must do whats best for the country.But she did'nt because keeping Loghain there helped her keep the crown,seeing as his a war hero and Eamon might have had an effect on her queen states.
Then when Eamon got healed and she found out about the warden,she had to change strategy and so she faked her capture( Howe tells you Anora tricked you) to manupilate the situation,making her look inocent.
So wardens are not suppose to get involved with politics(but strangely it seems like they always do) I did what I thought was in the best interest of the wardens,I might decide to help Anora now but given her manuplitave history someday( in the future) the wardens might need her aid and she could say that Ferelden can't afford to help the wardens,but if I give Alistair the crow being a grey warden himself,he would lend aid if it should come to that.
Anyway I dont understand how having Anora and Alistair as king and queen gave ferelden a golden era? 6 years later and Alistairs still speeks about Ferelden not being at its strongest after the blight..and they're still trying to get Fereldens out of Kirkwall .Then there is talk of a the Qunari, war with Orelais and mage/ templar war.With all of Thedas fighting I doubt it's a golden era

[Urzon]

I'm sure Anora knew about Calian and the Empress. She is very well informed about things, but you are overlooking how their divorce would effect Fereldren. Then on top of that, the effects of the King and Empress getting married.

First, a divorce wasn't just getting a piece of paper signed, and them going their seperate ways back then. Divorces back then usually ended in either: death, imprisonment, or getting exiled. They always end ugly. The get worse when you are divorcing the well loved daughter of a war hero, who is also one of the major ruling lords of the land as well.

Second, the King wanted to marry the Empress of Orlais. Orlais being the country who not even 50 years ago was ruling Ferelden with an iron fist. There is alot of bad blood between the country still. Heck, there are a bunch of people still alive that remember the bad times when Orlais still ruled. You know the common folk aren't going to be happy when they hear that the King is setting aside his Ferelden wife, for the Empress of Orlais.

Third, as you pointed out; the Orlaisian lords want to reconquer Ferelden. Marriage would easily solve that. The problem being that, it will be a joint rule as long as any of Calian's blood remains. I can see Calian having an "accidently" fall down some stairs. With Calian dead, and no heirs to be seen; Ferelden would fall into Orlais' hands without any battles or wars.... yet. Civil war could be on the horizon again. I don't see the people wanting to be under Orlaisian control again.

So yes, she might have known about Calian and the Empress, but i doubt she had a true hand in his death. I remember a couple of scenes in the game where she questions Loghain about it. Loghain never gives her a straight answer. Plus, if you bring Loghain with you to the Return to Ostagar; he's furious when he see the letters. I think it's safe to say, Anora didn't tell Loghain about it.

Modifié par Urzon, 22 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[goofyomnivore]

Cailan was a terrible ruler. Anora is the one who has the Empress' respect and can stand up against Celene and Arl Eamon. Eamon is a snake. I'm sure of it and wants to use Alistair as a puppet. That is why I never put Alistair on the throne alone, and I question pairing him with Anora since I doubt he can stand up for Anora against Arl Eamon.

Anora is the better choice for Fereldon politically and long term no doubt in my mind. I think Alistair can be a good king, but he needs to get Arl Eamon out of his corner.

[valentine3]

Urzon wrote...

I'm sure Anora knew about Calian and the Empress. She is very well informed about things, but you are overlooking how their divorce would effect Fereldren. Then on top of that, the effects of the King and Empress getting married.

First, a divorce wasn't just getting a piece of paper signed, and them going their seperate ways back then. Divorces back then usually ended in either: death, imprisonment, or getting exiled. They always end ugly. The get worse when you are divorcing the well loved daughter of a war hero, who is also one of the major ruling lords of the land as well.

Second, the King wanted to marry the Empress of Orlais. Orlais being the country who not even 50 years ago was ruling Ferelden with an iron fist. There is alot of bad blood between the country still. Heck, there are a bunch of people still alive that remember the bad times when Orlais still ruled. You know the common folk aren't going to be happy when they hear that the King is setting aside his Ferelden wife, for the Empress of Orlais.

Third, as you pointed out; the Orlaisian lords want to reconquer Ferelden. Marriage would easily solve that. The problem being that, it will be a joint rule as long as any of Calian's blood remains. I can see Calian having an "accidently" fall down some stairs. With Calian dead, and no heirs to be seen; Ferelden would fall into Orlais' hands without any battles or wars.... yet. Civil war could be on the horizon again. I don't see the people wanting to be under Orlaisian control again.

So yes, she might have known about Calian and the Empress, but i doubt she had a true hand in his death. I remember a couple of scenes in the game where she questions Loghain about it. Loghain never gives her a straight answer. Plus, if you bring Loghain with you to the Return to Ostagar; he's furious when he see the letters. I think it's safe to say, Anora didn't tell Loghain about it.

All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

[Urzon]

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

Modifié par Urzon, 22 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[Big I]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Kavatica wrote...
Hi Harold.

I believe that in order to get Alistair to agree to marry Anora after you recruit Loghain, you need to have gotten them both to agree to the idea of a marriage in previous conversations that you had with both of them prior to the Landsmeet. This needs to be done as well as the other things you mentioned, such as the hardening and max persuasion. Did you do this?

Did it. I am beginning to think that there is an additional diaglogue option like the hardening option that needs to be done long before the Landsmeet and is not at all obvious that it is needed. DAO has too many such nonobvius options.

Harold

In the unlikely event that this problem has not been resolved, I'd like to point out there's an additional conversation requirement with Anora. In the conversations with her prior to the Landsmeet the topic of how you intend to deal with Loghain will come up. If you do not promise to be merciful to Loghain then Anora will betray you at the Landsmeet, regardless of what deal you've made with her.


You can promise to be merciful to Loghain and still execute him later.

[Emzamination]

Why is Alistair marrying Anora the perfect ending for you? Wouldn't you rather make short work of Alistair and seize power for yourself?

[TEWR]

Urzon wrote...

Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

That was exactly what my Wardens wanted to do as well!

[valentine3]

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

[valentine3]

strive wrote...

Cailan was a terrible ruler. Anora is the one who has the Empress' respect and can stand up against Celene and Arl Eamon. Eamon is a snake. I'm sure of it and wants to use Alistair as a puppet. That is why I never put Alistair on the throne alone, and I question pairing him with Anora since I doubt he can stand up for Anora against Arl Eamon.

Anora is the better choice for Fereldon politically and long term no doubt in my mind. I think Alistair can be a good king, but he needs to get Arl Eamon out of his corner.

One of the boons you can choose after killing the archdemon is to serve the crown,Alistair will make you an adviser and Eamon  will go back to Redcliff. And if you play da2 and made Alistair king it's not Eamon at Alistairs side but Tegan, aswell in ''mark of the assassin'' It Tegan and Isolde that's there not Eamon.
It looks like Tegan took over from Eamon

[Urzon]

valentine3 wrote...
 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

I can only think of two reasons why he wouldn't suggest something like that. One, it is because it wouldn't be the honorable thing to do. And two, if the nobles learn that the heir to the throne is a bastard, it could cause quite a fight when the King dies. The King/Queen/Eamon could discredit them, but if there is enough speculation of the matter; the nobles might challenge the bastard's rights to the throne.

Then if there is enough power hungry or bloodthirsty nobles and lords out there, you could get something like the Game of Thrones in Ferelden.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Marrying the daughter of a mass-murderer and traitor who killed your mentor and father-figure. I'm sure Alistair is thrilled.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

valentine3 wrote...

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

It's more because he doesn't want to put the throne at risk so early again. If he's 'hardened' you can still keep your relationship with him though.

[LobselVith8]

Emzamination wrote...

Why is Alistair marrying Anora the perfect ending for you? Wouldn't you rather make short work of Alistair and seize power for yourself?

I can understand why people would view the union between Alistair and Anora as a good one, and I see it as the best ending for my Surana Warden. Queen Anora has ambitious plans to build a university and refill the royal coffers, while a personality hardened Alistair will study governance and trust in Queen Anora's administrative skills. The people of Ferelden love them as a couple - they are popular, and handle things well enough that Eamon isn't needed (and returns to Redcliffe to resume his duties as Arl). In respect to Alistair's involvement as King, he recognizes how to handle the Alienage situation, giving a seat to the Elder to represent the elves, in an unprecedented move. I think it's fairly good.

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

Eamon suggested that Cailan "put Anora aside" in favor of another woman, on the grounds that Anora was barren.  It accomplishes the exact same thing, more honorably than having a mistress bear a bastard heir.

Of course, we DO know that Cailan "had his women," per Anora's words, and we don't have a clue that Anora actually was barren, just Eamon's automatic assumption that she was.  Since Cailan had slept with other women, it does stand quite to reason that he, not Anora, was the one with procreative issues.

Alistair breaks up with the Warden on several counts, and it isn't at all strange.  Firstly, it is the fact that both of them being Grey Wardens significantly lowers the odds of conceiving a child, which is already lower for one potential parent being a Warden.  But also there's the fact that if the female Warden is not a human Noble, the nobility of the Landsmeet won't stand for the marriage, and this makes sense.  The rulers of Ferelden aren't going to appreciate a total flaunting of their traditions by the monarch marrying himself to a dwarf, or an elf, the latter which would be a tremendous scandal, and it's illegal for a mage to take on noble lands, titles, or powers.  This is why an unhardened Alistair breaks off the relationship: unhardened he is greatly concerned with doing the honorable thing, and feels that keeping a mistress will be a hugely disgraceful thing to do to his wife, and that it would be extremely unfair to his mistress to be sleeping with his "real" wife while keeping her on the sidelines.

[Silfren]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

haroldhardluck wrote...

Kavatica wrote...
Hi Harold.

I believe that in order to get Alistair to agree to marry Anora after you recruit Loghain, you need to have gotten them both to agree to the idea of a marriage in previous conversations that you had with both of them prior to the Landsmeet. This needs to be done as well as the other things you mentioned, such as the hardening and max persuasion. Did you do this?

Did it. I am beginning to think that there is an additional diaglogue option like the hardening option that needs to be done long before the Landsmeet and is not at all obvious that it is needed. DAO has too many such nonobvius options.

Harold

It is not necessary to bring up the marriage option in Eamon's Denerim estate, no.  On a recent playthrough of the Landsmeet, I tried the "I think Alistair and Anora should marry" option to see what Alistair would say, because i was expecting a snarky refusal I'd heard of before, but never gotten.  As it happened, both Alistair and Anora readily agreed to the marriage.  It came as a total surprise and I had to re-load, but there you go: the agreement to marry before hand in the Arl's estate is only necessary if Alistair is unhardened, and you have a lower approval, as far as I know.

I can confirm that I had both high approval with hardened Alistair (even at the love stage, too, if that matters), as well as a high persuasion skill (rank 4).  Also that my character killed Loghain--Anora will NOT marry Alistair if he killed Loghain, regardless of any other factor.  But that's all it takes.  Having them agree beforehand is patently not necessary if these other conditions are met.

Modifié par Silfren, 23 avril 2012 - 08:20 .

[valentine3]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

It's more because he doesn't want to put the throne at risk so early again. If he's 'hardened' you can still keep your relationship with him though.

Than you so muchbut I already know about hardening  Alistair  to keep the relationship.I just thought it was strange that not being able to have children (if noble female) was an issue ,when Anora had the same problem.Also that it was a problem for Eamon with Calian and Anora ,but not with Alistair and Anora.

[valentine3]

Silfren wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

Eamon suggested that Cailan "put Anora aside" in favor of another woman, on the grounds that Anora was barren.  It accomplishes the exact same thing, more honorably than having a mistress bear a bastard heir.

Of course, we DO know that Cailan "had his women," per Anora's words, and we don't have a clue that Anora actually was barren, just Eamon's automatic assumption that she was.  Since Cailan had slept with other women, it does stand quite to reason that he, not Anora, was the one with procreative issues.

Alistair breaks up with the Warden on several counts, and it isn't at all strange.  Firstly, it is the fact that both of them being Grey Wardens significantly lowers the odds of conceiving a child, which is already lower for one potential parent being a Warden.  But also there's the fact that if the female Warden is not a human Noble, the nobility of the Landsmeet won't stand for the marriage, and this makes sense.  The rulers of Ferelden aren't going to appreciate a total flaunting of their traditions by the monarch marrying himself to a dwarf, or an elf, the latter which would be a tremendous scandal, and it's illegal for a mage to take on noble lands, titles, or powers.  This is why an unhardened Alistair breaks off the relationship: unhardened he is greatly concerned with doing the honorable thing, and feels that keeping a mistress will be a hugely disgraceful thing to do to his wife, and that it would be extremely unfair to his mistress to be sleeping with his "real" wife while keeping her on the sidelines.

Sorry I should have said I was writting about female noble warden.
And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.
I know why Alistair breaks it of with the female warden.  I was just trying to understand why (whiles paying noble female) not having childer is the issue,whiles Anora seems to have the same problem.

[TEWR]

And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.

Her Elven servant is a confidant, not a lover. Basically, she's the Second to Anora, if we want to use Dwarven terminology for a comparison.

Not saying Anora didn't sleep with other people, but judging by her hesitance to even marry Alistair I highly doubt she did. I think she truly loved Cailan and didn't sleep with other people.

I'm more inclined to believe that Cailan was sterile. I doubt the devs would have the Theirin bloodline end.

[valentine3]

Just to add I know it's suppose to be illegal for a mage to have a noble lands titles and so on ,but one of the boons you can choose after the death of the archedemon is riches,where (if you killed loghain) Alistair will give you Loghain lands and a title.Does this count for anything?
Does it make a mage noblity,because a title was rewarded?
And if it does would that not mean a mage would be able to marry royalty?
So why can femhawke marry Sebastian?

Modifié par valentine3, 23 avril 2012 - 09:09 .

[valentine3]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.

Her Elven servant is a confidant, not a lover. Basically, she's the Second to Anora, if we want to use Dwarven terminology for a comparison.

Not saying Anora didn't sleep with other people, but judging by her hesitance to even marry Alistair I highly doubt she did. I think she truly loved Cailan and didn't sleep with other people.

I'm more inclined to believe that Cailan was sterile. I doubt the devs would have the Theirin bloodline end.

Thank you I truely appreciate eveyones opinion on trying to help me with my questions
I think she did'nt want to marry Alistair because he reminded her of Calian and maybe he just anoyed her or maybe she did'nt really want to share power.She might have only agree to it ,because she thought it might have been the only way to have the warden on her side and thus keep the crown.
With the barren thing I still lean towards her,Alistair was very aware of the fact that there has to be an heir.He felt so strongly about it that he was (if romanced female warden) willing to leave the love of his life....So why no babies after 7 years?

Modifié par valentine3, 23 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

Alistair breaks up with the Warden on several counts, and it isn't at all strange.  Firstly, it is the fact that both of them being Grey Wardens significantly lowers the odds of conceiving a child, which is already lower for one potential parent being a Warden.  But also there's the fact that if the female Warden is not a human Noble, the nobility of the Landsmeet won't stand for the marriage, and this makes sense.  The rulers of Ferelden aren't going to appreciate a total flaunting of their traditions by the monarch marrying himself to a dwarf, or an elf, the latter which would be a tremendous scandal, and it's illegal for a mage to take on noble lands, titles, or powers.

Which always makes me wonder what the Chantry thinks about a mage Warden who becomes the new Teyrn of Gwaren, or who becomes the new Arl of Amaranthine in direct violation of Chantry law.

Silfren wrote...

This is why an unhardened Alistair breaks off the relationship: unhardened he is greatly concerned with doing the honorable thing, and feels that keeping a mistress will be a hugely disgraceful thing to do to his wife, and that it would be extremely unfair to his mistress to be sleeping with his "real" wife while keeping her on the sidelines.

That's true. This is brought up by Queen Anora if The Warden brings up marriage as a possibility (as a non-Human Noble), and she brings up that the Landsmeet would never accept it.