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[caradoc2000]

Urzon wrote...

I'm sure Anora knew about Calian and the Empress.

The Bard's Honor's description says she did.

[Silfren]

Kavatica wrote...

Silfren wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

Not to mention his dead sibling's spouse (ew).

Yeah, there's that as well. It just adds to the creepiness of the whole affair.

At one time it was a common practice.  Look up the history of levirate.

I'm aware of that. But how is that even a factor? Just because something is historically accurate, that doesn't make it right...or any less disgusting. 

Ha. I hope you realize that it was practiced as widely as it was in the cultures that adhered to this rule specifically because it WAS considered "right" in the moral sense.  The purpose of it, at least in Jewish culture, was to ensure that the family name of the deceased brother was continued.  That was considered the right and proper thing to do, such that it was considered morally "right."  I can't fathom why it would be considered "disgusting" though, since the two people involved were not blood relatives.  It isn't as though they were engaging in incest.

Whether or not something of this nature is considered morally right or "disgusting" depends on the culture in which it is practiced, and it is largely a modern concept to view the practice as vile.

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Urzon wrote...

valentine3 wrote...


All good pionts.Thank you.
But still Calian marrying an orlesian,might have ended up with Orlais reconquer Ferelden,but not if Anora was Queen alone. They knew this and tried to get rid of all opsticals -Killing the wardens(alistair) and poisining Eamon.I still feel that she had more to do with thing than we we're let on.But then I might be wrong.There's things about the game that I dont understand,but maybe you can help? If Eamon wrote the note to Calian about Anora being barren,why try to get Alistair to marry her.I know he wanted a strong alliance,but it would still give the same problem later.And -sorry of topic- if Riodan could make Loghain a warden ,why  not recruit more wardens.He obviously had the stuff to do so?

I'm sure her hands were in many cookie jars in the game, but unless Mr. Gaider shinys a light on which ones; we will never know for certain.

As for the Eamon question, i can only imagine he knew a good opportunity when he saw one (he is a politician after all). He might not have wanted it to begin with, but he knew Anora was a good ruler. Since i'm sure he knew that she was on the truely ruling the country when Calian was out doing who knows what. The only problem he had with her was her being barren.

I would think monarchies had something to solve that type of problem though, without going all King Henry VIII.  Have Alistair get some trustworthy women in good standing pregnant, secretly of course. Then you have Anora, and said woman, go on a "vacation" to a remote manor, and nine months later you got yourselve a new heir to the throne. Then they kill or discredit anyone who says otherwise.

No idea why Riodan didn't try to recuit more people. Most likely because they didn't have any other important characters to do so. Which is a pity, because i always wanted to recuit Jowan after Redcliff. Once the Blight was threw, the Warden could have shipped him to Warden's Keep to apprentice under Avernus, but that will never be.

 
I know how you feel ,almost like a waisted oppertunity
Anyway would'nt Eamon suggest that to Calian (in the note-that they should get someone preganent)? 
I get the idea that Eamon is more worried over the Therin bloodline....And strange that if you play a female warden and made Alistair king, he actually wants to break up with you because you wont be able to have children...

It's more because he doesn't want to put the throne at risk so early again. If he's 'hardened' you can still keep your relationship with him though.

Than you so muchbut I already know about hardening  Alistair  to keep the relationship.I just thought it was strange that not being able to have children (if noble female) was an issue ,when Anora had the same problem.Also that it was a problem for Eamon with Calian and Anora ,but not with Alistair and Anora.

It isn't at all strange from Alistair's perspective.  Providing an heir to the throne is part of the monarch's responsibilties, and he understood that.  It's irrelevant to him that Cailan and Anora were unable to produce a child; the responsibility of providing an heir is still there regardless.  So he understands that he has to find a non-Warden wife in order to maximize the already-reduced odds of conception.

I agree that it's odd that Eamon would be okay with Alistair marrying Anora since he apparently believed Anora was barren and pushed Cailan to set her aside.  I think this is due, however, to the fact that that overall plot was abandoned, and the bits we see of it were unintentionally left in the game.  

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Sorry I should have said I was writting about female noble warden.
And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.
I know why Alistair breaks it of with the female warden.  I was just trying to understand why (whiles paying noble female) not having childer is the issue,whiles Anora seems to have the same problem.

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch not to be.  Beyond that, I see NO evidence in game that Anora had anything with her maidservant.  The only thing said on the subject is from Arl Eamon pointing out that Erlina is "more" than a maidservant, but his implication is NOT that the elf is Anora's lover, but a spy who Anora depends on to be her eyes and ears in ways that Anora, as queen, cannot be.

I did not say that Anora was not barren.  I'm pointing out that we have ZERO evidence that she is.  Only Arl Eamon suggests it, and he bases it on nothing more than the fact that Cailan and Anora have not had children.  That alone does not mean that Anora is barren.  It could just as easily mean that Cailan is barren.  This whole line of thought irritates me because so many players assume it to be irrefutable fact and run with it, so I counter it every time I see someone make the assertion.  As for "little Cailans" running about, I do not think there are any, because there's no conclusive evidence one way or the other, but there IS compelling suggestion from the game that there aren't any little bastard heirs to the Ferelden monarchy beyond Alistair himself. 

Given that both Alistair and a Male Warden also have the problem of reduced fertilty, it shouldn't come as any surprise that even if she marries one of them, Anora still does not have an heir.  Alistair is explicit on this point that it is EXTREMELY difficult for even one Grey Warden to produce a child, even if their partner isn't a Warden.

Finally, I addressed the matter of a female Human Noble above.  Providing children as heirs is vital, period.  I'm unsure as to why you find the matter strange.  Just because Anora didn't have children doesn't make that matter less important.  Alistair understood this.  Firstly, we have no reason to believe that Alistair thinks that Anora has any problems with fertility.  He only knows that part of his duty as a monarch is to produce an heir.  He knows that he and his Warden lover have very little chance of success at this venture.  That neither Cailan nor Anora had been successful doesn't enter into the equation, because the necessity is still there.

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Just to add I know it's suppose to be illegal for a mage to have a noble lands titles and so on ,but one of the boons you can choose after the death of the archedemon is riches,where (if you killed loghain) Alistair will give you Loghain lands and a title.Does this count for anything?
Does it make a mage noblity,because a title was rewarded?
And if it does would that not mean a mage would be able to marry royalty?
So why can femhawke marry Sebastian?

 A female Hawke CAN'T marry Sebastian.  Where did you get this?  Sebastian has taken vows.  He can't get married himself, regardless of Hawke's own status.  

Anyway, the question of a mage receiving power and prestige as the Teyrn of Gwaren is a damn good question.  Specifically because it IS illegal for a mage to bear titles and wield political power, it would have been very, very nice to see what story developed from the monarch's blatant flaunting of that law.  There's a ton of potential conflict and juicy, juicy story from that premise...and Bioware ignored it completely.

Edit:  Okay, Youtube tells me that you can marry Sebastian, sort of.  I'm not sure whether that's an actual proposal of real marriage, however, or just Sebastian wanting Hawke to take the same vows he did and reside beside him in the Chantry.  

Modifié par Silfren, 24 avril 2012 - 07:44 .

[Kavatica]

Silfren wrote...

 A female Hawke CAN'T marry Sebastian.  Where did you get this?  Sebastian has taken vows.  He can't get married himself, regardless of Hawke's own status. 

Yes, female Hawke can marry Sebastian, although this is not shown in game. With a friendmance, Hawke becomes a sister of the faith and they have a chaste "marriage" in the eyes of the Maker. With a rivalmance, Sebastian vows to take back Starkhaven and swears that that the marriage between the Viscountess of Kirkwall and the Prince of Starkhaven will be the strongest alliance the Free Marches has ever seen.

Sebastian's vows were never fulfilled. He left the Chantry to avenge his family before he had taken them, and then when he tries to go back, Elthina says no. The only way he fulfills his vows are if Hawke convinces him that it is right to do so.

In any event, I would say that this isn't exactly the same thing as the Warden and Alistair since Starkhaven is not Ferelden. There's also the chance that Sebastian is totally wrong when he says this (let's be honest, the guy likes to make wild proclamations that may or may not be followed through on). I mean, he would still have to swoop in and claim his throne back from his brother and then convince the entire nation that he is fit to rule even though he has been in the Chantry most of his life and didn't have the best of reputations before he ended up there.

Modifié par Kavatica, 24 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Silfren]

Kavatica wrote...

Silfren wrote...

 A female Hawke CAN'T marry Sebastian.  Where did you get this?  Sebastian has taken vows.  He can't get married himself, regardless of Hawke's own status. 

Yes, female Hawke can marry Sebastian, although this is not shown in game. With a friendmance, Hawke becomes a sister of the faith and they have a chaste "marriage" in the eyes of the Maker. With a rivalmance, Sebastian vows to take back Starkhaven and swears that that the marriage between the Viscountess of Kirkwall and the Prince of Starkhaven will be the strongest alliance the Free Marches has ever seen.

Sebastian's vows were never fulfilled. He left the Chantry to avenge his family before he had taken them, and then when he tries to go back, Elthina says no. The only way he fulfills his vows are if Hawke convinces him that it is right to do so.

In any event, I would say that this isn't exactly the same thing as the Warden and Alistair since Starkhaven is not Ferelden. There's also the chance that Sebastian is totally wrong when he says this (let's be honest, the guy likes to make wild proclamations that may or may not be followed through on). I mean, he would still have to swoop in and claim his throne back from his brother and then convince the entire nation that he is fit to rule even though he has been in the Chantry most of his life and didn't have the best of reputations before he ended up there.

I assume you mean "taken" by fulfilled, because fulfilling a vow has nothing to do with making the vow in the first place.  

I thought he had taken vows and that part of the problem was that he actually broke them?

Sebastian's brother isn't on the Starkhaven throne, he's dead along with the rest of Sebastian's family.  That's part of his whole story:  He is the only Vael left.  If he weren't, he wouldn't be so fixated on the dilemma, because once he got past his wild days he was happy to stay in the Chantry.

Modifié par Silfren, 24 avril 2012 - 08:22 .

[Kavatica]

Silfren wrote...

I assume you mean "taken" by fulfilled, because fulfilling a vow has nothing to do with making the vow in the first place.  

I thought he had taken vows and that part of the problem was that he actually broke them?

Sebastian's brother isn't on the Starkhaven throne, he's dead along with the rest of Sebastian's family.  That's part of his whole story:  He is the only Vael left.  If he weren't, he wouldn't be so fixated on the dilemma, because once he got past his wild days he was happy to stay in the Chantry.

I meant to say cousin, not brother. Sebastian's cousin, Goren Vael, takes over after his family is murdered. So in order for Seb to become King, he would have to overthrow his cousin...or at least have some kind of awkward conversation.

Yes, you are right that he was a full brother in the Chantry. I was misinterpreting one of his conversations with Anders. Either way though, when Hawke meets him he is essentially in limbo (as you said, Elthina won't let him come back into the "fold") and this is why he is able to leave and get married if Hawke rivalmances him and convinces him to do so. And even if you don't romance him at all, when Hawke chooses not to kill Anders he vows to go back to Starkhaven anyways, so he isn't really the best example of a brother following Chantry laws.

[Emzamination]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Why is Alistair marrying Anora the perfect ending for you? Wouldn't you rather make short work of Alistair and seize power for yourself?

I can understand why people would view the union between Alistair and Anora as a good one, and I see it as the best ending for my Surana Warden. Queen Anora has ambitious plans to build a university and refill the royal coffers, while a personality hardened Alistair will study governance and trust in Queen Anora's administrative skills. The people of Ferelden love them as a couple - they are popular, and handle things well enough that Eamon isn't needed (and returns to Redcliffe to resume his duties as Arl). In respect to Alistair's involvement as King, he recognizes how to handle the Alienage situation, giving a seat to the Elder to represent the elves, in an unprecedented move. I think it's fairly good.

Anora is too much in line with the status-quo of ferelden.She may have an elven servant but in almost all endings she comes down hard on the elves and I don't doubt for a second she'd side with the chantry trying to put the mages back on their leashes.Anora isn't a tyrant but she is not the right person to be sitting on the throne if we want change and peace.It is best for everyone that Alistair take a new queen or rule alone with a chancellor, mistress or both whispering in his ear.

[Urzon]

Emzamination wrote...

Anora is too much in line with the status-quo of ferelden.She may have an elven servant but in almost all endings she comes down hard on the elves and I don't doubt for a second she'd side with the chantry trying to put the mages back on their leashes.Anora isn't a tyrant but she is not the right person to be sitting on the throne if we want change and peace.It is best for everyone that Alistair take a new queen or rule alone with a chancellor, mistress or both whispering in his ear.

"Anora might ease the restrictions placed upon the City Elves for a time, but a food riot not long after forces her to come down hard on the people of the Alienage. This causes more distrust to brew between the people in the Alienage and their human counterparts."

She eased restrictions on the City Elves, most likely making it easier for them to get a job and move around the city. The next time the city run lows on food though, the elves respond by destroying property and probably killing a couple of people in a riot.

What was she suppose to do in that situation? The people in the city (and all of Thedas) distrust the elves, and they see them as second class citizens, if even that. Anora put her faith in the elves but lessening the restrictions placed upon them decades/centuries ago. The elves responded to that by causing a riot the next time there was a food shortage. Which would be common, since the darkspawn blighted much of the farmland in Ferelden.

It was a slap in the face.

Modifié par Urzon, 25 avril 2012 - 10:51 .

[valentine3]

[quote]Silfren wrote...

[quote]valentine3 wrote...

Sorry I should have said I was writting about female noble warden.
And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.
I know why Alistair breaks it of with the female warden.  I was just trying to understand why (whiles paying noble female) not having childer is the issue,whiles Anora seems to have the same problem.
[/quote]

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch not to be.  Beyond that, I see NO evidence in game that Anora had anything with her maidservant.  The only thing said on the subject is from Arl Eamon pointing out that Erlina is "more" than a maidservant, but his implication is NOT that the elf is Anora's lover, but a spy who Anora depends on to be her eyes and ears in ways that Anora, as queen, cannot be.
*snip*


Actually I did'nt mention anything about Anora being a lesbian.I asked about the servant and then if she had other affairs( I did'nt specifically ask if she had affairs with only women or men I wanted to know in general) Your assumption that I'm sexest ,because I asked a question is way of.

Modifié par valentine3, 25 avril 2012 - 11:59 .

[valentine3]

Silfren wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Just to add I know it's suppose to be illegal for a mage to have a noble lands titles and so on ,but one of the boons you can choose after the death of the archedemon is riches,where (if you killed loghain) Alistair will give you Loghain lands and a title.Does this count for anything?
Does it make a mage noblity,because a title was rewarded?
And if it does would that not mean a mage would be able to marry royalty?
So why can femhawke marry Sebastian?

 

Anyway, the question of a mage receiving power and prestige as the Teyrn of Gwaren is a damn good question.  Specifically because it IS illegal for a mage to bear titles and wield political power, it would have been very, very nice to see what story developed from the monarch's blatant flaunting of that law.  There's a ton of potential conflict and juicy, juicy story from that premise...and Bioware ignored it completely.


 

And Anora was also a commoner ,before her dad was made Teyren of Gwaren. Anora could marry royalty,because her dad got a title .So any other femwarden should be able to marry royalty after they recieve  a title

To carry on with my Qustions and such--- Ok lets say Anora is not barren how long will it take before Ferelden nobles turn on her? She might not be barren ,but if Eamon made that assumption others will follow soon, seeing as she was married to Calian and Alistair/male warden and there is no heir yet.If she rules alone the problem about an heir will also be a problem.

[LobselVith8]

Emzamination wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I can understand why people would view the union between Alistair and Anora as a good one, and I see it as the best ending for my Surana Warden. Queen Anora has ambitious plans to build a university and refill the royal coffers, while a personality hardened Alistair will study governance and trust in Queen Anora's administrative skills. The people of Ferelden love them as a couple - they are popular, and handle things well enough that Eamon isn't needed (and returns to Redcliffe to resume his duties as Arl). In respect to Alistair's involvement as King, he recognizes how to handle the Alienage situation, giving a seat to the Elder to represent the elves, in an unprecedented move. I think it's fairly good.

Anora is too much in line with the status-quo of ferelden.She may have an elven servant but in almost all endings she comes down hard on the elves and I don't doubt for a second she'd side with the chantry trying to put the mages back on their leashes.

I tend to think that Alistair's "common" background gives him insight that Anora doesn't, since she was raised as a noble once her father became Teyrn of Gwaren. Alistair's decision to place a prominent elf on a seat in the royal court probably helped the elves in the Denerim Alienage realize that genuine change was coming. She has a lot of good ideas - such as building a university (which sounds revolutionary for Ferelden) and even a personality hardened King Alistair agrees with many of her decisions. I think she is an effective leader, but both Alistair and Anora have flaws that I think they help each other compensate with.

As for the issue with the mages, Anora publicly agrees with The Warden about emancipating the mages, and she asks Wynne to have a role at the royal court. I don't see why she would help the Chantry if she is willing to publicly agree with The Warden about mages governing themselves, and she declares the Circle of Ferelden to be free in the Ultimate Sacrifice ending (before Bioware rectonned it).

Emzamination wrote...

Anora isn't a tyrant but she is not the right person to be sitting on the throne if we want change and peace.It is best for everyone that Alistair take a new queen or rule alone with a chancellor, mistress or both whispering in his ear.

I don't really agree. Choosing between hoping for a miracle, and trusting in an effective leader who is already present, doesn't seem like a difficult choice to me. Anora is a good leader, and her plans to build a university would be an irrevocable change for a place like Ferelden. That said, Bioware doesn't seem to care too much about Queen Anora, as she was pretty much ignored while Alistair was given the cameo roles.

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Sorry I should have said I was writting about female noble warden.
And to add Calian sleeping with other women does not mean Anora was not barren,We don't know if there's little Calians running around somewhere.I have to ask because I dont recall but did Anora also have affairs?I remember something in the line of her elven assistant being more than that.Might mean she slept with other men too?And if she does marry Alistair or male warden there is still no heir after 7 years.
I know why Alistair breaks it of with the female warden.  I was just trying to understand why (whiles paying noble female) not having childer is the issue,whiles Anora seems to have the same problem.

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch not to be.  Beyond that, I see NO evidence in game that Anora had anything with her maidservant.  The only thing said on the subject is from Arl Eamon pointing out that Erlina is "more" than a maidservant, but his implication is NOT that the elf is Anora's lover, but a spy who Anora depends on to be her eyes and ears in ways that Anora, as queen, cannot be.
*snip*


Actually I did'nt mention anything about Anora being a lesbian.I asked about the servant and then if she had other affairs( I did'nt specifically ask if she had affairs with only women or men I wanted to know in general) Your assumption that I'm sexest ,because I asked a question is way of.

I didn't accuse you of anything.  I addressed your question by reporting that the ONLY claims of Anora having an affair with her elf servant I've ever seen came from people who made it clear their assumption was based on sexist contempt for the character, and further that the ONLY in-game reference to it didn't imply anything about Anora having an affair with her servant at all.  It had nothing whatsoever to do with you, I was referring to the only "evidence" I've seen came from people who dislike Anora because they see her as a "man-hating lesbo."  So no, I didn't assume anything about YOU at all.  

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2012 - 07:29 .

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

Just to add I know it's suppose to be illegal for a mage to have a noble lands titles and so on ,but one of the boons you can choose after the death of the archedemon is riches,where (if you killed loghain) Alistair will give you Loghain lands and a title.Does this count for anything?
Does it make a mage noblity,because a title was rewarded?
And if it does would that not mean a mage would be able to marry royalty?
So why can femhawke marry Sebastian?

 

Anyway, the question of a mage receiving power and prestige as the Teyrn of Gwaren is a damn good question.  Specifically because it IS illegal for a mage to bear titles and wield political power, it would have been very, very nice to see what story developed from the monarch's blatant flaunting of that law.  There's a ton of potential conflict and juicy, juicy story from that premise...and Bioware ignored it completely.


 

And Anora was also a commoner ,before her dad was made Teyren of Gwaren. Anora could marry royalty,because her dad got a title .So any other femwarden should be able to marry royalty after they recieve  a title

To carry on with my Qustions and such--- Ok lets say Anora is not barren how long will it take before Ferelden nobles turn on her? She might not be barren ,but if Eamon made that assumption others will follow soon, seeing as she was married to Calian and Alistair/male warden and there is no heir yet.If she rules alone the problem about an heir will also be a problem.

I'm fairly sure that Loghain was made a Teyrn before Anora was born, which would mean that she was born as nobility, not a commoner.  Also, given the uniqueness of their situation--Loghain was a nationally recognized hero and close personal friends with the King.  Anora didn't "get" to marry Cailan--she was betrothed to him when she and Cailan were children, by an agreement between King Maric and Loghain.  Those factors had plenty to do with Anora marrying Cailan.  Either way, you still have the situation where "any other" female Warden includes dwarves and elves.  I don't think Anora's pairing with Cailan would have been nearly so acceptable had Anora been a dwarf or an elf.  National hero or not, tradition is a huge, huge thing and not so easily overturned.  And again, hero or not, mages are not legally permitted to bear titles or hold political power.  Since this is another situation where the mage in question would be the Hero of Ferelden, it could be possible, but you still have to consider Chantry opposition, which would be no small thing and WOULD, were the story written well, result in considerable problems for King Alistair to deal with.  Tradition is not easily dispensed with.

In the case of the female Warden, those factors explain plausibly enough why only a Human Noble has the option to marry.  It would have been nice to see Bioware address the political ramifications involved, because you can bet there would have been. 

In fact now I think about it, I'd argue that that was one reason why Bioware didn't leave that option for romance options other than the Human Noble.  They knew that it would require additional storytelling, because there's just no way the nobility of Ferelden would take an Elf-queen lying down, and the Chantry wouldn't tolerate the monarch flaunting its laws by raising a mage to royal status.  Especially if said King was a bastard never before heard of before the Landsmeet.  

[valentine3]

double post sorry

Modifié par valentine3, 25 avril 2012 - 08:21 .

[valentine3]

[

silfren wrote

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch ..........
[/quote]

As every suggestion you've seen includes mine aswell, (and as your answering my post) can not help but feel that your comment on being sexest was applied to me aswell If its not sorry ,but just because you think people are being sexest by adding ,that it seems  Anore might have been sleeping with her servant,  does not mean they meant it that way.Some of us are actually just trying to get more info about the came,because its intresting.
And because there is lack of information about the subject it is left to the player of the game to interpret it for themself.Saying that you think Anora might have slept with her servant does' nt mean your sexest it just means you might have interpreted it that way.

As for Anora being born a commoner please read http://dragonage.wik...iki/Queen_Anora[/quote]
It also mentions rumours about Anora being barren.
And I think when you speek to the guard infront of Calian's tent in Ostagar he mentions something about Anora being a commoner,but I dont remeber that well

Modifié par valentine3, 25 avril 2012 - 08:34 .

[Silfren]

valentine3 wrote...

silfren wrote...

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch ..........

As every suggestion you've seen includes mine aswell, (and as your answering my post) can not help but feel that your comment on being sexest was applied to me aswell If its not sorry ,but just because you think people are being sexest by adding ,that it seems  Anore might have been sleeping with her servant,  does not mean they meant it that way.Some of us are actually just trying to get more info about the came,because its intresting.
And because there is lack of information about the subject it is left to the player of the game to interpret it for themself.Saying that you think Anora might have slept with her servant does' nt mean your sexest it just means you might have interpreted it that way.

As for Anora being born a commoner please read http://dragonage.wik...iki/Queen_Anora
It also mentions rumours about Anora being barren.
And I think when you speek to the guard infront of Calian's tent in Ostagar he mentions something about Anora being a commoner,but I dont remeber that well

Would you please stop fixating on something I said that I already spelled out was not directed at you?  And I don't need this "just because X it doesn't mean Y" stuff.  I don't think people are being sexist because they say Anora might have been sleeping with her servant.  I think they are being sexist because they claim that Anora "must" be a lesbian because she "clearly" hates men and latch onto Arl Eamon's statement about Erlina being more than a maidservant as irrefutable proof of this.  My comment was meant to indicate nothing more than that the only people I've seen actually attempt to make a case for Anora having affairs do so by insisting that the game portrays Anora as man-hater and that therefore she MUST be a lesbian, and point to Eamon's remark as proof, declaring "See?  Lesbian!  I told you so!"  Not to mention that the "proof" that Anora hates men according to these arguments, is drawn from her disdain for Alistair, and the fact that she is not in a rush to re-marry, which is ludicrous.  I was not including your comment in all this, but ADDRESSING your question by trying to point out that I've never seen a compelling argument in favor of the idea. 

Now can we let that be the END of that subject, please?

Re: Anora being born a commoner.  Okay, I stand corrected.  I thought she was born before her father was raised to teyrn, not after.  Though I will say that that wiki has been known to have inaccurate info at times, and I wouldn't glom on to it as gospel truth.  Finally, the wiki only rumors about Anora being barren are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.  We also hear rumors that Maric has a bastard son who is kept locked away because he's a simpleton, and gets fed cake.  Listen to all the rumors, and it becomes plain that not all of them are meant to be taken as fact, but are intended to show how the inhabitants of Thedas get half-assed information and run with it.  It's GOSSIP, after all, for cripe's sake. 

Modifié par Silfren, 25 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[valentine3]

Silfren wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

silfren wrote...

*sigh* Every suggestion I've seen that Anora had something with her elven maidservant stems directly and ONLY from people who don't even attempt to hide their very sexist opinion that Anora is a "obviously" a lesbian because she's allegedly too much of a ball-busting b*tch ..........

As every suggestion you've seen includes mine aswell, (and as your answering my post) can not help but feel that your comment on being sexest was applied to me aswell If its not sorry ,but just because you think people are being sexest by adding ,that it seems  Anore might have been sleeping with her servant,  does not mean they meant it that way.Some of us are actually just trying to get more info about the came,because its intresting.
And because there is lack of information about the subject it is left to the player of the game to interpret it for themself.Saying that you think Anora might have slept with her servant does' nt mean your sexest it just means you might have interpreted it that way.

As for Anora being born a commoner please read http://dragonage.wik...iki/Queen_Anora
It also mentions rumours about Anora being barren.
And I think when you speek to the guard infront of Calian's tent in Ostagar he mentions something about Anora being a commoner,but I dont remeber that well

Would you please stop fixating on something I said that I already spelled out was not directed at you?  And I don't need this "just because X it doesn't mean Y" stuff.  I don't think people are being sexist because they say Anora might have been sleeping with her servant.  I think they are being sexist because they claim that Anora "must" be a lesbian because she "clearly" hates men and latch onto Arl Eamon's statement about Erlina being more than a maidservant as irrefutable proof of this.  My comment was meant to indicate nothing more than that the only people I've seen actually attempt to make a case for Anora having affairs do so by insisting that the game portrays Anora as man-hater and that therefore she MUST be a lesbian, and point to Eamon's remark as proof, declaring "See?  Lesbian!  I told you so!"  Not to mention that the "proof" that Anora hates men according to these arguments, is drawn from her disdain for Alistair, and the fact that she is not in a rush to re-marry, which is ludicrous.  I was not including your comment in all this, but ADDRESSING your question by trying to point out that I've never seen a compelling argument in favor of the idea. 

Now can we let that be the END of that subject, please

 OK maybe should calm down a bit,read my post again where I actually say ...'' IF ITS NOT,THEN SORRY''
Anyway no need to get worked up about something so  childish....I do ( as a matter of fact) need alot of SPELLING things out as I am trying my best at the english language.

So as to continue .Ok so yes Anora might not be barren,but argumentativly I can also state that Alistair can impregnate Morrigan. Now before you say but the dark ritual and  so on ... keep in mind that it never gets said the D.R is done to help  Morrigan get pregnant, instead its done so that the fetus acts as a beacon for the old god soul/spirit. Alistair might not be the problem.

Anyway   the Fereldens are starting to believe that she is barren. (I know thats not a rumour because Eamon himself believes that) and some believes this is a curse- will this not cause problems with Ferelden citizens?.If she rules alone would this devide Ferelden into people who want her to rule and those who think a commoner queen is a curse?

I do have to agree with you that Bioware could have made this into a nice story ,but sadly with da3 having a new protagonist and its all about the mages/templar war I doubt this subject will continue.

Modifié par valentine3, 26 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[Emzamination]

Urzon wrote...

"Anora might ease the restrictions placed upon the City Elves for a time, but a food riot not long after forces her to come down hard on the people of the Alienage. This causes more distrust to brew between the people in the Alienage and their human counterparts."

She eased restrictions on the City Elves, most likely making it easier for them to get a job and move around the city. The next time the city run lows on food though, the elves respond by destroying property and probably killing a couple of people in a riot.

What was she suppose to do in that situation? The people in the city (and all of Thedas) distrust the elves, and they see them as second class citizens, if even that. Anora put her faith in the elves but lessening the restrictions placed upon them decades/centuries ago. The elves responded to that by causing a riot the next time there was a food shortage. Which would be common, since the darkspawn blighted much of the farmland in Ferelden.

It was a slap in the face.

OR food got scarce after the battle of denerim and the greedy nobles didn't distribute it equally among the city and the Alienage.The elves are already rail thin living from scrap to scrap daily, do you expect them to just starve to death in the streets while the humans enjoy their roast in the castle? That is opression and I'd incite a riot too.

I do think Anora could've handled that waaay better like Abolishing the alienage and making elves equal citizens amongst the humans seeing as her father sold elven familys to tevinter magisters to be used in dark rituals or have we forgotten all about the indignities they've suffered? The Orphanage children being butchered by Human city guards because they dared to stand up for themselves when they got tired of being pushed around, The elven women who got raped,beaten and killed on a daily basis from the Human arls son and Human city guards.The elves deserve all the amnesty ferelden can offer, They are a people who have been wronged severly.

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 avril 2012 - 02:50 .

[HiroVoid]

Emzamination wrote...

Urzon wrote...

"Anora might ease the restrictions placed upon the City Elves for a time, but a food riot not long after forces her to come down hard on the people of the Alienage. This causes more distrust to brew between the people in the Alienage and their human counterparts."

She eased restrictions on the City Elves, most likely making it easier for them to get a job and move around the city. The next time the city run lows on food though, the elves respond by destroying property and probably killing a couple of people in a riot.

What was she suppose to do in that situation? The people in the city (and all of Thedas) distrust the elves, and they see them as second class citizens, if even that. Anora put her faith in the elves but lessening the restrictions placed upon them decades/centuries ago. The elves responded to that by causing a riot the next time there was a food shortage. Which would be common, since the darkspawn blighted much of the farmland in Ferelden.

It was a slap in the face.

I do think Anora could've handled that waaay better like Abolishing the alienage and making elves equal citizens amongst the humans seeing as her father sold elven familys to tevinter magisters to be used in dark rituals or have we forgotten all about the indignities they've suffered? The Orphanage children being butchered by Human city guards because they dared to stand up for themselves when they got tired of being pushed around, The elven women who got raped,beaten and killed on a daily basis from the Human arls son and Human city guards.The elves deserve all the amnesty ferelden can offer, They are a people who have been wronged severly.

.....You do realize Anora doesn't have THAT much power don't you?  She can only do so much without the nobles dethroning her at a landsmeet, and unlike Alistair, she doens't have a bloodline legacy protecting her.

[Emzamination]

LobselVith8 wrote...


I tend to think that Alistair's "common" background gives him insight that Anora doesn't, since she was raised as a noble once her father became Teyrn of Gwaren. Alistair's decision to place a prominent elf on a seat in the royal court probably helped the elves in the Denerim Alienage realize that genuine change was coming. She has a lot of good ideas - such as building a university (which sounds revolutionary for Ferelden) and even a personality hardened King Alistair agrees with many of her decisions. I think she is an effective leader, but both Alistair and Anora have flaws that I think they help each other compensate with.

As for the issue with the mages, Anora publicly agrees with The Warden about emancipating the mages, and she asks Wynne to have a role at the royal court. I don't see why she would help the Chantry if she is willing to publicly agree with The Warden about mages governing themselves, and she declares the Circle of Ferelden to be free in the Ultimate Sacrifice ending (before Bioware rectonned it).


I don't really agree. Choosing between hoping for a miracle, and trusting in an effective leader who is already present, doesn't seem like a difficult choice to me. Anora is a good leader, and her plans to build a university would be an irrevocable change for a place like Ferelden. That said, Bioware doesn't seem to care too much about Queen Anora, as she was pretty much ignored while Alistair was given the cameo roles.

The world is on the brink of destruction my good man, this is no time for Universities,Philanthropist and Scholars but putting all that aside, Anora is a Ruthless liar who will do whatever and side with whoever just to keep power as she has proven and even admitted time and time again.How can the people of ferelden feel safe and comfortable with a fluid Administrator on the throne? She only agreed to help the mage warden becase he or she helped her Achieve the throne and the warden was a person of great influence and prominence at the time.Anora is a politician and a leech on society.She will side with the chantry because the mages are considered rebels and have no power, however the chantry and the templars...

[Emzamination]

HiroVoid wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Urzon wrote...

"Anora might ease the restrictions placed upon the City Elves for a time, but a food riot not long after forces her to come down hard on the people of the Alienage. This causes more distrust to brew between the people in the Alienage and their human counterparts."

She eased restrictions on the City Elves, most likely making it easier for them to get a job and move around the city. The next time the city run lows on food though, the elves respond by destroying property and probably killing a couple of people in a riot.

What was she suppose to do in that situation? The people in the city (and all of Thedas) distrust the elves, and they see them as second class citizens, if even that. Anora put her faith in the elves but lessening the restrictions placed upon them decades/centuries ago. The elves responded to that by causing a riot the next time there was a food shortage. Which would be common, since the darkspawn blighted much of the farmland in Ferelden.

It was a slap in the face.

I do think Anora could've handled that waaay better like Abolishing the alienage and making elves equal citizens amongst the humans seeing as her father sold elven familys to tevinter magisters to be used in dark rituals or have we forgotten all about the indignities they've suffered? The Orphanage children being butchered by Human city guards because they dared to stand up for themselves when they got tired of being pushed around, The elven women who got raped,beaten and killed on a daily basis from the Human arls son and Human city guards.The elves deserve all the amnesty ferelden can offer, They are a people who have been wronged severly.

.....You do realize Anora doesn't have THAT much power don't you?  She can only do so much without the nobles dethroning her at a landsmeet, and unlike Alistair, she doens't have a bloodline legacy protecting her.

The nobles only choose a king or queen, once that person has been blessed by the chantry and taken the throne, the only way to end that reign is assasination.Like I've said before, she is too in line with the status quo bowing and kow towing to the nobles of the land.Bhelen disolved the assembly when they didn't want to let go of their centuries old traditions of caste but I recognize that wouldn't go over so well on human lands seeing as human lords govern different parts of ferelden HOWEVER she could "Replace" the racist nobles with those more in line with change.

[Urzon]

Emzamination wrote...

The nobles only choose a king or queen, once that person has been blessed by the chantry and taken the throne, the only way to end that reign is assasination.Like I've said before, she is too in line with the status quo bowing and kow towing to the nobles of the land.Bhelen disolved the assembly when they didn't want to let go of their centuries old traditions of caste but I recognize that wouldn't go over so well on human lands seeing as human lords govern different parts of ferelden HOWEVER she could "Replace" the racist nobles with those more in line with change.

Obviously not, the Landsmeet ingame can end the reign of Anora if you push for Alistair to be King. If a replacement is brought before the Landsmeet, the nobles get to vote if the wish that person to be King or not. The Warden only gets to basically choose because of the work and connections he/she might have made. The majority of the Landsmeet then honors your choice.

Really? "Replace" nobles? That isn't asking for assassination attempts or a civil war at all.....

/sarcasm

[Emzamination]

Urzon wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The nobles only choose a king or queen, once that person has been blessed by the chantry and taken the throne, the only way to end that reign is assasination.Like I've said before, she is too in line with the status quo bowing and kow towing to the nobles of the land.Bhelen disolved the assembly when they didn't want to let go of their centuries old traditions of caste but I recognize that wouldn't go over so well on human lands seeing as human lords govern different parts of ferelden HOWEVER she could "Replace" the racist nobles with those more in line with change.

Obviously not, the Landsmeet ingame can end the reign of Anora if you push for Alistair to be King. If a replacement is brought before the Landsmeet, the nobles get to vote if the wish that person to be King or not. The Warden only gets to basically choose because of the work and connections he/she might have made. The majority of the Landsmeet then honors your choice.

Really? "Replace" nobles? That isn't asking for assassination attempts or a civil war at all.....

/sarcasm

There was never any reign to begin with, Cailan was king and ruling monarch, Anora ruled in the shadows but  was little more than a princess consort in actual power and with cailan dead, the throne was up for grabs hence the civil war.

Peace doesn't come without sacrifice

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 avril 2012 - 05:32 .