306 réponses à ce sujet

[Mainframe79]

Dude, this is amazing and EXACTLY what I've been feeling. I hope you don't mind, but I reposted this to my blog so I don't lose it (with credit to you of course!) , as these forums move crazy fast.

[ProdigalMaster]

Good read.

[Dhraconus]

Just bumping this again cause it's that good. Don't mind me...

[Sainta117]

Dhraconus wrote...

Just bumping this again cause it's that good. Don't mind me...

I don't mind at all. Topics like this aren't really made to stay at the top of a board moving this fast...

Anybody identify any themes I missed? I kept feeling like there were more points I didn't cover.

[Zuka999]

Please, this needs to be seen. BioWare needs to read this. Did they miss the point of their own story?

[Sainta117]

Bump. Never sure on the etiquette of this sort of thing, but with how fast the boards are moving, it'll never get seen otherwise.

[Spectre_Shepard]

Sainta117 wrote...



So here we are, standing at the culmination of three hundred hours of joy and tears, brought about through a profound exploration of the power of hope and inclusiveness in the unlikely form of a video game. We're watching every race in the galaxy: humans, and turians, krogan and salarians, quarians and geth, and even the ageless, arrogant asari all come together in equal partnership to fearlessly face down an enemy of unimaginiable power and ancient evil, riding into a battle they cannot hope to win conventionally, prepared to fight and die for just the smallest hope of victory, fighting and dying to buy just the smallest chance that their friends and loved ones might escape utter and complete annhilation. And at the climax of that battle, we find ourselves confronted by the very avatar of intolerance, ruthlessness, cruelty, and arbitrary authority in the Starchild. And what does Bioware *force* us to do?

Bend our knee to it. We have to meekly accept the vile, unacceptable principle that there must always be winners and losers, that some battles are just too big to fight, some evils too powerful to defeat. That we must choose to bargain with the devil instead of spitting in his eye.

In other words, that everything Mass Effect has taught us is a lie. At the last moment, it strips of us of our unity, of our hope. It denies us the chance to pull together and win through to a glorious victory, or even to stand and die as free beings beside our brothers-in-arms. We must, it tells us, choose sides, at the last. We must become the monster we despise, or accept a hateful amalgamation with an evil and soulless foe, or sacrifice those who respect and count on us to achieve a broken and hollow victory.

And that, I believe, is what so many of us are *really* incensed about. Because we instinctively reject this insidious calumny as the end of the epic we've come to love. We reject the idea that we can't all work together to achieve greatness. That we can't stand together to become a whole and complete galaxy, greater than the sum of its parts and its petty daily grievances and indignities.

And that is what the "Retake Mass Effect" movement is really about, in my opinion, whether we articulate it or not. We are following the example Shepard sets. We are standing together in the face of a great philosophy that has been perverted to cynicism and division, and saying, "Dammit, give us back our hope."

Yes, it's a game. But more than that, Shepard's story is a modern epic, no less valid in its time than the stories of Gilgamesh, Odysseus, Cuchillain, or Beowulf. Its themes are both laudable and universal, and worthy of note and remembrance. Bioware has failed at the final clinch, fallen in the final turn. But the responsibility for seeing this through was never really just their burden to bear. It falls to us to insist that they finish their masterpiece, that they remain true to themselves. It falls to us to hold the line, to make them see that they owe it to us, and to themselves, to give this epic the ending it deserves.

this sums it all up beautifully

[whizzper134]

Bump

[Timberley]

Well, that's everything that's been going through my mind too OP, so very well done.  I think the Bioware writers should've really read their Joseph Campbell before they finished off the ending!

And, if i can add my own musings to this thread:

Shepard is on The Hero's Journey, and this much is quite clear (to me) from ME1 to the end of ME3.  However, rather than society being enriched by his/her journey, society is destroyed by the journey instead.  Enrichment may have come later, but as we're not told this, we can only speculate based on the facts we have been presented with in the past.  So, for most people that is essentially an ending where most of the galaxy dies.  To take the example from TV Tropes: Nice job breaking it hero.

A bleak ending is fine, if the universe is set up to be very bleak from its introduction.  Time and again people have called the ending bittersweet, but I do wonder if any of them know what bittersweet actually means.

From the Oxford Dictionary Online:

Bittersweet

adjective

1 (of food or drink) sweet with a bitter aftertaste: she sipped the bittersweet drink, the ale has a fine bittersweet nutty taste

2 arousing pleasure tinged with sadness or pain: bittersweet memories of his time in London

Obviously in this case we're concerned with definition 2.  We certainly got the sadness and pain, but very little of the 'arousing pleasure'. 

It's also hardly the 'uplifting' ending Casey was on about in his comment to the forum a wee while ago.  You can argue that the Normandy crashed on the unspecified planet, therefore things are good - they all lived.  No, that's not really the case.  The Normandy crashed on a planet.  And?  What happens next?  I don't care that 'the Shepard' has passed into legend at some future point.  I want to know what happens to the people Bioware spent so long characterising and making us care about.  You know, the crew of the Normandy and my squadmates.

Closure is not granted in this case.  Again, people could argue the point that throughout the game the squadmates and the old ME2 characters were telling what they planned to do after the war was over.  However, that was all based on the premise that the new status quo was in effect.  Following the last few minutes of the game, this was all thrown out of the window.  James Vega (in my playthrough) was going to go into N7 training.  So what's he going to do now?  I could speculate, and speculate wildly, but why should I?  No one's answer is right unless Bioware says otherwise.  One feature that Fallout New Vegas (mentioned elsewhere) had going for it was the closure you got with the brief snapshots of your party members after you'd finished the game, telling you how they lived out their lives.  Not really budget strainingly done, but a nice way to show you that your influence was felt.  As it stands, Mass Effect 3 basically cuts off just before the denouement.

But, that's just my thoughts on this whole thing.

Tim

Modifié par Timberley, 21 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Simi Parthenopaeus]

gooberfish311 wrote...

This is probably the closest summation of how Ive felt about the ending so far. It was, thematically speaking, completely disconnected from the rest of the trilogy.

quoting this of the many I want to quote because, I read the wall of text as you put it, and agree entirely, and i will be linking this post on my FB as well so others can read it and hopefully understand why I am "So upset about a video game"

[Starbuck13]

Thank you Sainta! Totally agree, and I think all of us who dislike the endings understand this on some level.

[Hkun2007]

Good read, sums up how I feel

[GreyhameBioware]

I agree with everything in the OP. Very well written.

[Sainta117]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the kind words, and for taking the time to read my mini-thesis. Just wanted to update you that I made a couple of small edits for clarity, grammar, and spelling. As I said at the outset, I was pretty tired when I wrote it.

[WhiteVV1ings]

That was a beautiful read and well said. Exactly everything I feel and believe.

[Sainta117]

Timberley wrote...

Well, that's everything that's been going through my mind too OP, so very well done.  I think the Bioware writers should've really read their Joseph Campbell before they finished off the ending!

And, if i can add my own musings to this thread:

Shepard is on The Hero's Journey, and this much is quite clear (to me) from ME1 to the end of ME3.  However, rather than society being enriched by his/her journey, society is destroyed by the journey instead.  Enrichment may have come later, but as we're not told this, we can only speculate based on the facts we have been presented with in the past.  So, for most people that is essentially an ending where most of the galaxy dies.  To take the example from TV Tropes: Nice job breaking it hero.

A bleak ending is fine, if the universe is set up to be very bleak from its introduction.  Time and again people have called the ending bittersweet, but I do wonder if any of them know what bittersweet actually means.

From the Oxford Dictionary Online:

Bittersweet

adjective

1 (of food or drink) sweet with a bitter aftertaste: she sipped the bittersweet drink, the ale has a fine bittersweet nutty taste

2 arousing pleasure tinged with sadness or pain: bittersweet memories of his time in London

Obviously in this case we're concerned with definition 2.  We certainly got the sadness and pain, but very little of the 'arousing pleasure'. 

It's also hardly the 'uplifting' ending Casey was on about in his comment to the forum a wee while ago.  You can argue that the Normandy crashed on the unspecified planet, therefore things are good - they all lived.  No, that's not really the case.  The Normandy crashed on a planet.  And?  What happens next?  I don't care that 'the Shepard' has passed into legend at some future point.  I want to know what happens to the people Bioware spent so long characterising and making us care about.  You know, the crew of the Normandy and my squadmates.

Closure is not granted in this case.  Again, people could argue the point that throughout the game the squadmates and the old ME2 characters were telling what they planned to do after the war was over.  However, that was all based on the premise that the new status quo was in effect.  Following the last few minutes of the game, this was all thrown out of the window.  James Vega (in my playthrough) was going to go into N7 training.  So what's he going to do now?  I could speculate, and speculate wildly, but why should I?  No one's answer is right unless Bioware says otherwise.  One feature that Fallout New Vegas (mentioned elsewhere) had going for it was the closure you got with the brief snapshots of your party members after you'd finished the game, telling you how they lived out their lives.  Not really budget strainingly done, but a nice way to show you that your influence was felt.  As it stands, Mass Effect 3 basically cuts off just before the denouement.

But, that's just my thoughts on this whole thing.

Tim

I think this is very well said. I too was bothered by these issues, although I felt the thematic reversal was more troublesome. That being said, there was definitely a strong sense of "resolution interruptus" as you realize that that's *all you're getting,* and it isn't nearly enough to help you say goodbye to so many important and beloved characters and groups.

[FunstuffofDoom]

I linked this thread in my signature, because it's very well written and it deserves to be seen by more. Thank you.

Modifié par FunstuffofDoom, 22 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[M12311]

Sainta117 wrote...
To me, one of the finest moments in my ME 1 playthrough was watching Liara and Shepard's relationship blossom as they come to the realization that love and understanding can cross even the barriers between worlds and species effortlessly

Asari are portrayed since ME1 as interracially promiscuous. Shephard and Tali maybe. But Asari will put out with just about any race.

[Sainta117]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

I linked this thread in my signature, because it's very well written and it deserves to be seen by more. Thank you.

Thanks! I'm glad you felt that strongly about it.

[MB957]

Thank you OP.

your words sing the song that flows through my broken heart...

this sadness I feel is about the loss of hope. A dishonoring of the ancient archetypes that bond all men and women to life and the qualities of beauty and goodness.

thank you OP, for creating a space, through the magic of your eloquence, where my wordless orphaned feelings can sit and rest awhile, and dream about hope again and all that makes things good and alive in this world.

all blessings

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Love this post, sums up quite a bit why the ending has left me so darn raw.

[Zoedoll]

Great post. I keep trying to articulate something similar and almost went off on one again in this reply but it would only be restating your point less coherently!

[paleobones]

WhiteVV1ings wrote...

That was a beautiful read and well said. Exactly everything I feel and believe.

[Chuloos]

bump.. because . this is the real deal..

[Chuloos]

Another bump.. this has gotten buried already