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On the betrayal of hope in Mass Effect 3's endings


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#76
Sainta117

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MB957 wrote...

Thank you OP.

your words sing the song that flows through my broken heart...

this sadness I feel is about the loss of hope. A dishonoring of the ancient archetypes that bond all men and women to life and the qualities of beauty and goodness.

thank you OP, for creating a space, through the magic of your eloquence, where my wordless orphaned feelings can sit and rest awhile, and dream about hope again and all that makes things good and alive in this world.

all blessings


Wow, you sound really depressed. Hope you feel better soon! In the meantime, I've found comfort in starting a brand new playthrough of ME1-ME2. Hopefully by the time I'm ready for ME3 they'll have at least announced what they're going to do to fix it.

#77
Alpha revan

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Excellent read. I agree.

#78
Squirrely Jedi

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Wow. I think you have really hit at why this is about more than just a video game. I still have trouble describing just how crushing that ending is, and I think this helps me at least. Thanks for posting!

#79
Sainta117

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Squirrely Jedi wrote...

Wow. I think you have really hit at why this is about more than just a video game. I still have trouble describing just how crushing that ending is, and I think this helps me at least. Thanks for posting!


You're welcome, of course! I'm still shocked by how positive the response to this has been. Honestly, I would have sworn I'd gone over the top and everyone was going to laugh at me.

Modifié par Sainta117, 24 mars 2012 - 01:05 .


#80
Mighty_BOB_cnc

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This post... I..
This feeling in my chest...
I'm choking up...

:crying:

Sir or madam, I have a list of urls to 11 walls of text that explain in acute detail why the ending has left us all so distraught and yours is more poignant than them all.  I am adding yours as the twelfth, but I am placing it at the very top of the list.

#81
xxskyshadowxx

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This was a great read. Dead on throughout the entire post.

#82
cchudoba002

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 Well done. You have outlined precisely why the ending is horrible. It isn't the lack of closure, or the plot holes. It is the complete butchering of the entire series in less than 10 minutes via theme 180.

#83
DocJill

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Great description of ME's themes. But don't we get to "spit in the devil's eye," as you say, by choosing the destroy ending?

#84
Trave11

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Good post. I shared many of the same thoughts in the official suggestions thread (excerpt copied below for anyone who cares to read). One thing I'd like to add is that the ending, as it stands, totally eliminates the desire to replay any bit of the series (and presumably any forthcoming DLC other than what will impact the ending).

1. ME3 is absolutely incredible. Epic is a term that is overused; this game truly deserves the label. I was a bit late to the party by the time I purchased my copy and therefore had heard grumblings about the conclusion of the trilogy before I started playing. I found the game so enthralling that I believed it impossible to have any sense of disappointment upon completing it. I was mistaken. The conclusion is a HUGE disappointment.

2. The disappointment stems from the fact that - unless I'm totally misinterpreting the ending - there is no point to the the struggle, the persistence, the triumph or glory of Commander Shepard. By the time Harbinger landed in London I felt as weary as the character I was directing. So much had been overcome up to that point and I was so immersed in it that I was not prepared for such an anti-cathartic stream of events throughout the subsequent several minutes.

3. To add further gravity to point #2 above, this lack of purpose makes it unappealing to play this or any other ME game ever again. As a general rule, I suspect people - though mostly speaking for myself - are greatly opposed to devoting 120+ hours to a cause only to fail. And again, based upon my interpretation of the ending, Shepard did fail. Some remnant of civilization may live on to some degree on an unknown planet but Earth was conquered. Humanity did not persevere, and it's because Shepard was never even presented with the opportunity to make one last stand; to deliver everything that was left of himself - which was clearly little by the final act - for the sake of all life. Fate was determined by a wholly unknown intelligence and the presentation of three essentially congruent choices. The expectation for a narrative spanning three chapters and unfolding over several years is not that it will fizzle in a moment of illusory choice. A hero like Shepard deserved a hero's death.

4. The nature of the ending, in and of itself, is not necessarily poor. I respect the vision. It is, however, entirely out of place in the context of the ME trilogy. Principally, what makes ME so appealing is the focus on character development, narrative and choice. In this sense, the trilogy is perfectly paced. Chapter 1 establishes the setting and introduces some of the primary characters. Chapter 2 develops the characters, adds a little depth and breadth to the main theme and muddies the waters between good/evil and right/wrong. The atmosphere in ME3 is a masterful composite. Choices from the first two chapters seamlessly create the story throughout the third and ensure that the story is one worth experiencing. And it is certainly that. It is such a story that every key plot point in ME3 presents as much intrigue and accomplishment as the finale of ME2. For this reason the ending of ME3 just doesn't fit with the rest of the journey. It is a low point in a series of high points. It is a moment of confusion and resignation amidst a story founded upon hope and resolve.

5. Harbinger was essentially a meaningless entity in ME3. Granted, it could be argued that the build up from ME2 was realized when Harbinger (possibly) killed Shepard as he attempted to reach the Citadel. Some form of conflict between the two would have added a little more purpose to this story arc.

6. Take back Earth? I will say what I suspect many others feel. The Mass Effect series contained more than enough despair for an entertainment medium that is typically reserved for enjoyment/escapism. As much as I hate to put myself into the "wants a cliche, predictable ending" crowd, I would have been pretty damn happy with killing every single reaper and liberating Earth. In fact, that's really the only ending that would have left me fully satisfied. The setting and the characters are so well done in the ME universe that it just seems a pointless waste to kill everything off (mostly).

All in all, the ME trilogy deserves every bit of accolade it's received. To say that it is a milestone of gaming is a severe understatement. It's just too bad it couldn't have concluded in a manner that endears players to the series. I'm afraid I will never have the desire to play through these games again.

#85
Joran Anduril

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Squirrely Jedi wrote...

Wow. I think you have really hit at why this is about more than just a video game. I still have trouble describing just how crushing that ending is, and I think this helps me at least. Thanks for posting!


Agreed.  The ending is devastating because it destroys hope, not (just) because of its illogical plot holes.   It's a sad sign of our times when such blatant nihilism is heralded as "artistic integrity" while those of us who do clamor for hope, love, faith, and triumph are dismissed as trite, naive, or childish whiners who want an "unrealistic" vision of "puppies and rainbows."  If hope is unrealistic, then I no longer have any desire to live in reality.

#86
Guest_Vurculac_*

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Good post OP and I agree. I also think we need more of these types of posts just to get the point across that the majority of us who have issue with the the endings aren't just complaining for the sake of complaining. Again good post and thank you for it. :)

Modifié par Vurculac, 26 mars 2012 - 05:33 .


#87
Mighty_BOB_cnc

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Joran Anduril wrote...
I no longer have any desire to live in reality.

Welcome brother!

#88
zennyrpg

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Damn. Spot on.

I think this relates a lot to the "happy ending" crowd. While I would love for shepard to live and be with her friends what is really dissatisfying is that shepard can't die with her beliefs intact. I want an ending that embodies hope.

#89
Airquotes

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As much as I would have liked a happy ending, especially after surviving the suicide mission, I also would of liked to be able to truly sacrifice my shepherd (ala DA:O) but sadly wasn't given any choice in the matter. Doesn't a forced sacrifice take away from the act itself or am I just misunderstanding the concept?


P.S. totally agree OP

Modifié par Airquotes, 26 mars 2012 - 05:56 .


#90
RubiconI7

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Great, great read.

Specially resonated with this part

The Betrayal
So here we are, standing at the culmination of three hundred hours of joy and tears, brought about through a profound exploration of the power of hope and inclusiveness in the unlikely form of a video game. We're watching every race in the galaxy: humans and turians, krogan and salarians, quarians and geth, and even the ageless, arrogant asari all come together in equal partnership to fearlessly face down an enemy of unimaginiable power and ancient evil, riding into a battle they cannot hope to win conventionally, prepared to fight and die for just the smallest hope of victory, fighting and dying to buy just the smallest chance that their friends and loved ones might escape utter and complete annhilation. And at the climax of that battle, we find ourselves confronted by the very avatar of intolerance, ruthlessness, cruelty, and arbitrary authority in the Starchild. And what does Bioware *force* us to do?

Bend our knee to it. We have to meekly accept the vile, unacceptable principle that there must always be winners and losers, that some battles are just too big to fight, some evils too powerful to defeat. That we must choose to bargain with the devil instead of spitting in his eye.

In other words, that everything Mass Effect has taught us is a lie. At the last moment, it strips of us of our unity, of our hope. It denies us the chance to pull together and win through to a glorious victory, or even to stand and die as free beings beside our brothers-in-arms. We must, it tells us, choose sides at the last. We must become the monster we despise, or accept a hateful amalgamation with an evil and soulless foe, or betray and sacrifice those who respect and count on us to achieve a broken and hollow victory.

And that, I believe, is what so many of us are *really* incensed about. Because we instinctively reject this insidious calumny as the end of the epic we've come to love. We reject the idea that we can't all work together to achieve greatness. That we can't stand together to become a whole and complete galaxy, greater than the sum of its parts and its petty daily grievances and indignities.

And that is what the "Retake Mass Effect" movement is really about, in my opinion, whether we articulate it or not. We are following the example Shepard sets. We are standing together in the face of a great philosophy that has been perverted to cynicism and division, and saying, "Dammit, give us back our hope."



#91
Avarenda

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Ive read a lot of threads about why the endings are bad, and i've got to say, yours is the best one that embodies why they're horrible from an emotional standpoint. A lot of people go into choices or plot holes etc etc, and those are all equally valid, but none have really struck home as much as this one.

#92
zennyrpg

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Airquotes wrote...
 Doesn't a forced sacrifice take away from the act itself or am I just misunderstanding the concept?


Pretty much.  I feel the ending was also cheapened by not having a total failure ending.  If you can't lose you can't win.

I would be happy for shepard to choose to sacrifice herself.  if it was my choice and it meant something.

#93
CronoDragoon

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Can't read this at 2 AM so I'll post it in to find it later, but if content matches title then I agree.

#94
zennyrpg

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Avarenda wrote...

Ive read a lot of threads about why the endings are bad, and i've got to say, yours is the best one that embodies why they're horrible from an emotional standpoint. A lot of people go into choices or plot holes etc etc, and those are all equally valid, but none have really struck home as much as this one.


Yep.  As many people have said- no one cares about the plot.  The plot is secondary.  Actually its tertiary.  For me it is:

1 Characters
2 Themes
3 Plot

#95
Aethyl

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An amazing post, OP.
You are exactly describing the facts that bug me the most in this ending.
And that it needs an epic final battle as well, where we could see all our war assets and crewmembers fighting dammit!
This 3 game saga can't end like that, it deserves a more epic conclusion where we could really fight to defend  everything we built during the adventure.
And not a sucky conclusion where we have to accept those poor 3 decisions which are given to us.

I totally agree.

#96
AdmiralCheez

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The OP deserves one million fresh-baked cookies.

Not all at once, though.

#97
CroGamer002

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OP.

I salute you.

#98
Kondorr

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I am Cmdr. Shepard, and this is my favorite thread on this Forums right now.

;)

#99
Cadence of the Planes

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Betrayal of hope? Hardly. I liked the story, and even if you didn't, I think you're being a bit...melodramatic.

#100
shurryy

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This WILL be bumped, and I'd even E-mail a link to this to bioware, or the entire text itself. I WILL DO IT... With permission.