2834 réponses à ce sujet

[Recidiva]

She wins at life.

[ChemicalGreen]

I made my male elf mage evil...ish. Well, amoral skirt chasing traitorous slightly effeminite anti-hero.



Romanced Leli, Morri and Zev, killed Wynne and Shale, and had Alistair executed. But Zev totally loved me for it. Forever after.



Ahem, without further a do....



Morrigan: I want you to have a wild sex ritual with me tonight.

Me: Didn't you just yesterday try to kill me because I told you Zevran was better in the bed?

Zevran: Aw, you're so kind my love.

Morrigan: That was yesterday. Now I can save your life by emotional blackmail.

Me: Well, I'm sure Zev's game, so how about a threesome?

Zevran: Oh, any time!

Morrigan: .... Oh screw this plan. Where's Loghain?

[mousestalker]

Recidiva wrote...

This game is just set up to be SOCIAL and for that, the most SOCIALLY benefical choices are clear.

I can't be my version of "So what?  What exactly are you going to do about it and where am I wrong?" evil here.  Too many witnesses.

But for the social game, it's the best, and I'm actually interested in making certain characters happy rather than hearing them yell at me for being stupid.  Which most of the evil choices actually ARE....since there are witnesses, which to any evil mind should scream "blackmail" and "liability" in big glowy letters.

I have no problem being evil in games where people are just helpless and stupid.  And there are SO many of those.  This one is hard for me because those helpless and stupid people are funny.  And one of them's a puppy.  I'm definitely more Count Rugen.  I'm really in personality much more like The Patrician from Discworld.  Only one with warm and rewarding human relationships.  And I love puppies.  And no interest in solving other people's problems.  So no politics for me, thanks.

Exactly, the Patrician is intelligent evil. I object as strongly to being evil stupid as I do to being lawful stupid (old D&D description of Paladins). The Patrician makes Ankh-Morpork run (more or less) smoothly because it suits him and allows him to indulge himself.

[Recidiva]

The temple makes me feel harassed with the least story in return. You bring good characters who are all touched by the experience and I just want to click the "It's a pot with a dead woman inside." very badly. Very badly.



It's hard for me to think there is anything divine in there, just two sets of crazy people and a lot of things with scales. Mmm. Scales.

[Recidiva]

mousestalker wrote...

Exactly, the Patrician is intelligent evil. I object as strongly to being evil stupid as I do to being lawful stupid (old D&D description of Paladins). The Patrician makes Ankh-Morpork run (more or less) smoothly because it suits him and allows him to indulge himself.

Yup.  I object to being forced into being a sadist or a crazy person.

But I'll do it!

I won't cry as much, but there will be some wincing and some "Oh, I had no idea THAT was there."

[Soepkommetje]

I think the biggest problem with playing 'evil' (as in downright sadistic) is the fact that the best conversation options only open up when people are in love with you. Apart from a few times you can make fun of Alistair when Duncan is mentioned, the awesome replies only open up once he starts to like you.



Best one yet I've found so far was in the conversation where he brings you the rose from Lothering, and after hearing his entire story and sentiment when he offers it I reply:



'So you bring me a flower. Brilliant plan.'

Alistair disapproves -59



(no joke, he dropped back to 0 from that one reply )



And to get back to the Alistair not giving you the choice to sacrifice yourself if he loves you option; it's not as bad as you make it out to be. It's not that you're deprived of a choice because you're a girl or because you're good, it's because Alistair loves you more than you love him. Your PC has no control over that no matter it's gender or origin!

The characters in this game have a will of their own (which becomes all too apparent in some cases), and if you're not at max love and in a relationship with Alistair you can tell him the exact same thing he tells you when he is at the max and not give him a choice. It felt a lot better to me after doing that. (broke up with him before the final battle because it seemed the right thing to do. Or, because I wanted the self-sacrifice ending, you pick)

Plus the ending where I sacrificed myself definitely brought the most tears to my cheeks.



I love this game.

[sagevallant]

Well, being "evil" doesn't exactly mean "being a dick to everyone around you" because that's just counterproductive. And apparently being emo is a heroic quality, and very attractive to the opposite sex, according to anime. It'd be more evil, for example, to romance Alistair knowing that meant he'd kill himself in order to save you later. Double points for refusing the Ritual on the basis of jealousy, dooming him to die all over again.

[Recidiva]

Soepkommetje wrote...

I think the biggest problem with playing 'evil' (as in downright sadistic) is the fact that the best conversation options only open up when people are in love with you. Apart from a few times you can make fun of Alistair when Duncan is mentioned, the awesome replies only open up once he starts to like you.

Best one yet I've found so far was in the conversation where he brings you the rose from Lothering, and after hearing his entire story and sentiment when he offers it I reply:

'So you bring me a flower. Brilliant plan.'
Alistair disapproves -59

(no joke, he dropped back to 0 from that one reply )

And to get back to the Alistair not giving you the choice to sacrifice yourself if he loves you option; it's not as bad as you make it out to be. It's not that you're deprived of a choice because you're a girl or because you're good, it's because Alistair loves you more than you love him. Your PC has no control over that no matter it's gender or origin!
The characters in this game have a will of their own (which becomes all too apparent in some cases), and if you're not at max love and in a relationship with Alistair you can tell him the exact same thing he tells you when he is at the max and not give him a choice. It felt a lot better to me after doing that. (broke up with him before the final battle because it seemed the right thing to do. Or, because I wanted the self-sacrifice ending, you pick)
Plus the ending where I sacrificed myself definitely brought the most tears to my cheeks.

I love this game.

Oh, I know.  I got a -72 on Alistair once, I think.  I went through most of the possible conversation options with save games.  And he's tricky, because he can joke and dismiss, but you'd better not.  Ooooh no.  He suddenly loses his sense of humor fast.

I think this is a bit like contemplating being evil Frodo and having Gollum be your best friend, selling Aragorn to the Orcs for target practice, and Gandalf ****ing the whole way that he should have picked some other hobbit.

But..that might not be...but...I LIKE those guys...and Gollum is not very steady company... You get a few more songs about fish...

But I learned that fast on my first attempt at "straightforward evil" - all I got is angry people and very few options.  Certainly no tear-jerking moments.  More of the vicious one liners.  And you can't even talk trash about Flemeth to Morrigan or she gets her feelings hurt.  What the hell?

[Recidiva]

Soepkommetje wrote...

It's because Alistair loves you more than you love him.

I love this game.

Lies and slander!

Me too.

[Recidiva]

sagevallant wrote...

Well, being "evil" doesn't exactly mean "being a dick to everyone around you" because that's just counterproductive. And apparently being emo is a heroic quality, and very attractive to the opposite sex, according to anime. It'd be more evil, for example, to romance Alistair knowing that meant he'd kill himself in order to save you later. Double points for refusing the Ritual on the basis of jealousy, dooming him to die all over again.

Pfft.

If you play the game exactly the same way and get no real options of social interaction, such as dueling Alistair instead of Loghain and being able to rule either way, and if anybody else wants to die, bring it.

You still have to have the same 'supportive' conversations every time if you want the stat buffs and the approval.  There's very little deviation, you can be wry supportive or ass kissing supportive.

You can't tell Morrigan she's a ****** and she seriously needs to get over her mommy issues or we're going to dump her at the Chantry.  She won't actually be "intimidated" into approving.  And that is what is missing.

[GoldenusG]

Alistair: Denerim.

Wynne: Denerim.

Sten: Denerim.

Me: It's only a model.

All: Huh? What are you babbling about now?

Me: Bah. No bloody respect for the classics. Its a tragedy what the world is coming to.

Alistair: Yeeees, thats what we're trying to prevent if you recall, the world coming to a tragic end.

Me: ... Where's a giant sodding boot when you need one?

Sten: You require one of my shoes?

Me: No, its... oh forget it. Right, lets sneak in, my flask went empty three not-very-random encounters ago, and I'm getting very thirsty.

Wynne: Really, I do believe that you drink too much, I remember a time when...

Me: Shut it!

Wynne: Its because I'm old isn't it, you believe you younger people know better. I was the same once, why there was one time I...

Me: Will you be quiet! Alistair, you're obsessed with being a Templer, even though Duncan saved the Chantry from you, why don't you kill her. She's an abomination after all?

Alistair: But she's so cuddly and grandmotherly! And don't you mean that Duncan saved me from the chantry? I miss him you know...

Me: Oh stick a filthy unwashed sock in it, and no. I meant exactly what I said... Alright lads and bats! Listen up. We're going to the Alienage to... Ermmm... Free some oppressed elfies!

Alistair & Wynne: A noble deed.

Sten: I do not see the point Kadan.

Me: ... They number among them a baker. The finest in Fereldan. The most wonderful cookies in all of Thedas come from his oven.

Sten: A worthy endeavour. We shall procede.

Me:

Alistair: Why is he grinning like that. I don't like it when he grins like that. Bad things happen. He scares me when he looks like that! Granny Wynne, hold me, please??

Me: Onwards!

[Soepkommetje]

On my current playthrough I'm determined to do as much as I can. Which includes everyone's companion quest, so I'm stuck with the positive options. Although the existence of gifts does mean I can use the somewhat-nice options instead of the really-nice ones every now and then.



And there are a fair few jokes you can crack regarding Alistair without him minding actually. Most notably the whole being raised by dogs line and the 'then make up something interesting!' one.



And yeah, it's a shame games like this one have no way of finding out the player's actual reasonings for certain actions/responses, but doing that would be kind of... bothersome without a live GM.

[Recidiva]

Soepkommetje wrote...

On my current playthrough I'm determined to do as much as I can. Which includes everyone's companion quest, so I'm stuck with the positive options. Although the existence of gifts does mean I can use the somewhat-nice options instead of the really-nice ones every now and then.

And there are a fair few jokes you can crack regarding Alistair without him minding actually. Most notably the whole being raised by dogs line and the 'then make up something interesting!' one.

And yeah, it's a shame games like this one have no way of finding out the player's actual reasonings for certain actions/responses, but doing that would be kind of... bothersome without a live GM.

Alistair's unpredictable, he'll mock and be mocked right up to the point where he...won't...at all.  But some of them are hilarious.  Telling him I might make him work for my PC's forgiveness for him trying to break up with her just gets you "Saucy!  Well, we'll discuss my punishment later."  Telling him the maker wouldn't strike him down for his performance also gets a joke instead of sad Alistair face.

I was hoping that calling him a coward on the rooftop would make him mad, but he just says "Yup, but it's worth a song or two."  And then kisses me.  Well...then.  That's nice, PUNCH HIM!

I only missed out on Leliana's personal quest this time, done all the others.  Her conversation options just make me crazed and I just tend to say what I want and otherwise let her sit in camp.  Five playthroughs and I've only managed to unlock her personal quest once.  UGH.

Modifié par Recidiva, 06 décembre 2009 - 08:10 .

[Keldon Northwind]

Recidiva wrote...

It's hard to be "true" to an evil character unless evil character realizes they NEED people.  In which case you just have a sick good character.

Indeed.

If all evil characters were like Eliphas the Inheritor of the Word Bearer legion. Now that dude was EVIL. And not the stark raving mad Evil but the cold, calculating, gentlemanesque kind of evil. That dude still gives me the creeps.

Or you have to be a complete sadist that enjoys other people's pain and lying to them.

Sarevok?  Sindri?  

But yes. Being evil in this game isn't exactly "worth it" as you get screwed over something fierce in the end. Not unlike BG2 where the evil path would still reward you handsomely.

Modifié par Keldon Northwind, 06 décembre 2009 - 08:22 .

[Recidiva]

Keldon Northwind wrote...

Indeed.

If all evil characters were like Eliphas the Inheritor of the Word Bearer
legion. Now that dude was EVIL. And not the stark raving mad Evil but
the cold, calculating, gentlemanesque kind of evil. That dude still
gives me the creeps.
Sarevok?  Sindri?  

But yes. Being evil in this game isn't exactly "worth it" as you get screwed over something fierce in the end. Not unlike BG2 where the evil path would still reward you handsomely.

I have a lot of respect for well played evil.

Even in this game, the "Evil" guys are just sick or crazy.  Loghain's paranoid.  Branka's obsessed and homicidal.  And by the way, what has she been eating to stay alive down there?  The werewolves...well, they're not really evil.  They're the descendents of someone else's feud and they have mystical rabies.  Both Dwarven kings are useless and stuck on style over substance and probably couldn't legislate what to get for lunch without killing someone with food poisoning.  They just want power for power's sake or to keep power from someone else and that's not good enough.  

There are ways to remain an evil bastard without having the obvious signs of needing to be carted away and not being trusted with silverware, much less weapons.

I want a bad guy of sound mind, dammit.  Someone I can deal with.

Well, that leaves out Sephiroth.  But I'm kinda tired of crazy = evil.  The same way I'm tired of deluded = good.

The world needs more Patricians, or barring that, someone with the panache of Hannibal Lecter if we must go the crazy route.

[Servant of Nature]

Recidiva wrote...

I only missed out on Leliana's personal quest this time, done all the others.  Her conversation options just make me crazed and I just tend to say what I want and otherwise let her sit in camp.  Five playthroughs and I've only managed to unlock her personal quest once.  UGH.

I used to not bother, then I unlocked the 'So, how is Alistair...*wink, wink, nudge, nudge*" converstation, and had it while he was in the party.  Was totally worth putting up with her craziness.

[Recidiva]

Servant of Nature wrote...

I used to not bother, then I unlocked the 'So, how is Alistair...*wink, wink, nudge, nudge*" converstation, and had it while he was in the party.  Was totally worth putting up with her craziness.

I romanced her as a male dwarf, but he had to be very GOOD in order to really give her the benefit of the doubt to begin with.  Very upstanding (for a dwarf) gentleman.

And then to listen to her banter in party about how she'd seduce and kill men who didn't seem to mind during and couldn't complain after...shrinkage issue.

There's no real way to navigate a conversation without basically nodding and smiling through everything and being very nurturing and understanding...to someone who pretty much admits to being a charming killer for hire and doing nothing but taking pride in it and regaling people with the stories.

I did get the romance far enough and the quest done and Leliana just kinda freaks me out with the watching me sleep and being so falsely coquettish I want to run away.

I don't mind watching someone sleep like Alistair doing it, but she likes to have sex outside and then watches me while she's in full armor.  The girl's gonna snap any second and if I'm the closest thing there....it's gonna be bad.

[Soepkommetje]

Ignorance is bliss.



The best way to romance her is to act naive.

[Servant of Nature]

Yeah I'll admit she's on the creepy side for a romance, I like her as a giggly BFF for some of my female characters though.  Every time I think I'm not going to take her, Alistair gives me the Princess Stabbity line and I giggle too much to even consider not taking her along, and thus she usually stays because I've only ever defiled the Ashes once.

I always found it sort of funny how fascinated Alistair seemed with her bard past, mentioning that men she seduced would remember her and how there's an allure to possibly being murdered, and that he'd keep a bard around on the OFF CHANCE she's not an assassin, but then suddenly is terrified when she openly admits she offed the men she slept with, and THEN he finally understands it.  Maker, the man is dense.  Good thing he has that voice to make up for it.

P.S.  twitter.com/swoopingisbad for some more funnies.

[Recidiva]

Soepkommetje wrote...

Ignorance is bliss.

The best way to romance her is to act naive.

My dwarf just listened because he knew surfacers were weird.

Sessions in council made him more apt to listen than speak.

I think only Alistair works on me because of the humor factor and the "Read me the phone book..." quality of the voice delivery.

[GoldenusG]

My mad drunkards (Also known as 'all my players' - except the Danish git - he's teetotal and not to be trusted) quite like Leliana, though thats more due to lack of alternate options than anything. Morrigan is obviously up to something, and Zevran is blatently a kill-happy crazy who reduced his bedposts to toothpicks through all the notches.

Modifié par GoldenusG, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:44 .

[Recidiva]

GoldenusG wrote...

My mad drunkards (Also known as 'all my players' - except the Danish git - he's teetotal and not to be trusted) quite like Leliana, though thats more due to lack of alternate options than anything. Morrigan is obviously up to something, and Zevran is blatently a kill-happy crazy who reduced his bedposts to toothpicks through all the notches.

I haven't really followed through with Zev.  I got the achievement of sleeping with him, but that was practically by accident.

I guess I like the slow burn, but not the completely crazy burn.

Both Zev and Morrigan turn me off by claiming to be so cavalier about the whole thing and then being lovesick enough to throw up Valentine's day on everyone.

[Genraku]

Kolgrim: You will tell me why you have entered our home and harmed our young!

Me: BLah blah risen andraste blah blah Go spout your madness elsewhere

Kolgrim: Madness? THIS IS SPAR--HAVEN! * Howls and kicks Alistair in the jewels.*

Me:-.- Shale. return the favor please.

*Screen goes black, and there is a loud CRUNCH followed by a high pitch scream*

[Recidiva]

Genraku wrote...

Kolgrim: You will tell me why you have entered our home and harmed our young!
Me: BLah blah risen andraste blah blah Go spout your madness elsewhere
Kolgrim: Madness? THIS IS SPAR--HAVEN! * Howls and kicks Alistair in the jewels.*
Me:-.- Shale. return the favor please.
*Screen goes black, and there is a loud CRUNCH followed by a high pitch scream*

It's the simple things in life that make us most happy.