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[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...

Yeah, but I'm only interested in Alistair if I'm good. 

When I'm in love, I'm actually IN LOVE and  I know better than to lie because I'll feel like I have to confess.  I don't want to see that conversation either.

I can't betray everything the person I love stands for.  He doesn't know what it means, but I do.  Me...personally...I'd be racked with guilt within three days.

The first time through, I almost couldn't do it.  I was jealous, I mean you're letting your man sleep with some skank, eww.  Plus, it does seem a little seedy, although he does seem to get the jist at the end.  I mean he says "blah, blah, blah, my demon baby."  The only thing that helped me decide to let him do it was when she mentioned that the child would have the soul of an old god, which at the time I thought was pretty cool.  After some thinking however, I'm not sure how great the idea is anymore, but who knows.  Maybe she taught the child some awesome things (but probably not).  Thinking about it, I have a feeling that she intends to use the child similarly to how Flemeth was going to use her.  Assuming it was a girl of course.

Modifié par Seallyn, 19 décembre 2009 - 11:22 .

[Sialater]

Actually, with that deal, I was totally up front with him. Told him about the kid and everything. I was kind of surprised when he confronted Morrigan about the child that his only question was, "Is this kid going to cause problems with Ferelden's succession?"



Course, he WAS hardened....

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

The first time through, I almost couldn't do it.  I was jealous, I mean you're letting your man sleep with some skank, eww.  Plus, it does seem a little seedy, although he does seem to get the jist at the end.  I mean he says "blah, blah, blah, my demon baby."  The only thing that helped me decide to let him do it was when she mentioned that the child would have the soul of an old god, which at the time I thought was pretty cool.  After some thinking however, I'm not sure how great the idea is anymore, but who knows.  Maybe she taught the child some awesome things (but probably not).  Thinking about it, I have a feeling that she intends to use the child similarly to how Flemeth was going to use her.  Assuming it was a girl of course.

I've never had any doubts.  My first play through I didn't even listen to her offer, I knew whatever it was, was BAD.

And she's a liar and all that stuff.  There's no doubt in my mind that it's BAD. 

In fact it seems so very, very bad that none of my "evil" characters can do it either, because it just seems like the perfect "bite you in the ass" moment and they'd have to spend the rest of their paranoid lives looking over their shoulder for a woman who apparently can track you through rings.  She probably shoved a tracking device in my armor.

Hate.  Her.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Actually, with that deal, I was totally up front with him. Told him about the kid and everything. I was kind of surprised when he confronted Morrigan about the child that his only question was, "Is this kid going to cause problems with Ferelden's succession?"

Course, he WAS hardened....

How the hell could you believe her or let him believe her?  She's...lying...a...lot.  A LOT.

*screams incoherently*

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...

Actually, with that deal, I was totally up front with him. Told him about the kid and everything. I was kind of surprised when he confronted Morrigan about the child that his only question was, "Is this kid going to cause problems with Ferelden's succession?"

Course, he WAS hardened....

So you told him about the kid and he still did it?  I have the Game Guide and it says to not mention it.  Although, he get's the clue anyway.  I would like to be more up front with him about it, so he knows why he's doing this horrid deed.  I mean it might not be the best ethical option, but heck I would still do it.  In fact I would do it myself if that would work.  Just close your eyes and it'll all be ok.

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Actually, with that deal, I was totally up front with him. Told him about the kid and everything. I was kind of surprised when he confronted Morrigan about the child that his only question was, "Is this kid going to cause problems with Ferelden's succession?"

Course, he WAS hardened....

How the hell could you believe her or let him believe her?  She's...lying...a...lot.  A LOT.

*screams incoherently*

Well, duh.  But I was playing an elf mage.  I gave frak all for the Chantry (but those Templar boys were hawt in those skirts).  And a hardened Alistair apparently doesn't either.  Also, I rp'ed that Morrigan didn't know all of her mother's plans, which probably did include taking over Morrigan and then the god child, but gave Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, since she said that she wanted to rescue it to eventually free the mages.  (I didn't choose to do that in my final wish, though, silly me.  Though I don't think Irving's the right guy to lead a non-Chantry circle.  I really don't think he handled the Jowan mess well, sure let's sell one of our own out just to teach Gregoir a lession!  No wonder Cullen goes off the deep end if you suicide the Archdemon.)

Yeah, I told Alistair about the kid.  He asked a question which I don't remember, then I chose to let him talk to Morrigan about it.  Really?   A potential god child wandering about the planet and you ask about Ferelden's succession?  I thought, "You really HAVE grown a pair.  Not sure if it's the RIGHT pair, but I have only myself to blame."  But I think for it to work you have to have hardened him, first.  And she told him what she told me.  Not quite word for word, but pretty close that I couldn't find any Aes Sedai'ing of the words, since that's how Morrigan lies, not outright, but by not quite saying what you think she's saying.


Course, by the end of the game, I was the power behind the throne since the King had no one else to 'relieve tension with. '  And then stupid Anora had to butt in when he went to Weisshaupt.  

[Seallyn]

I didn't think I was going to like the hardened Alistair. I thought he might become a jerk, but now that I've done it, I don't see how I could do it any other way. He does grow a pair, and I'm like, it's about friggin' time!

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Well, duh.  But I was playing an elf mage.  I gave frak all for the Chantry (but those Templar boys were hawt in those skirts).  And a hardened Alistair apparently doesn't either.  Also, I rp'ed that Morrigan didn't know all of her mother's plans, which probably did include taking over Morrigan and then the god child, but gave Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, since she said that she wanted to rescue it to eventually free the mages.  (I didn't choose to do that in my final wish, though, silly me.  Though I don't think Irving's the right guy to lead a non-Chantry circle.  I really don't think he handled the Jowan mess well, sure let's sell one of our own out just to teach Gregoir a lession!  No wonder Cullen goes off the deep end if you suicide the Archdemon.)

Yeah, I told Alistair about the kid.  He asked a question which I don't remember, then I chose to let him talk to Morrigan about it.  Really?   A potential god child wandering about the planet and you ask about Ferelden's succession?  I thought, "You really HAVE grown a pair.  Not sure if it's the RIGHT pair, but I have only myself to blame."  But I think for it to work you have to have hardened him, first.  And she told him what she told me.  Not quite word for word, but pretty close that I couldn't find any Aes Sedai'ing of the words, since that's how Morrigan lies, not outright, but by not quite saying what you think she's saying.


Course, by the end of the game, I was the power behind the throne since the King had no one else to 'relieve tension with. '  And then stupid Anora had to butt in when he went to Weisshaupt.  

*squints*  That's really complicated.  Hey!  You didn't answer my question!

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

I didn't think I was going to like the hardened Alistair. I thought he might become a jerk, but now that I've done it, I don't see how I could do it any other way. He does grow a pair, and I'm like, it's about friggin' time!

I really do like Hardened Alistair much more.  Which is of course why my "evil" wench won't let him get hardened.  And Sten ain't getting his sword either.  And I probably will torpedo Oghren with Felsi on purpose...

[Zachriel]

As a male, playing male characters, I've only accepted Morrigan's offer twice. The first time I was playing my blood mage, who was nearly as self centered as Morrigan herself. It was in character, but I felt pretty disgusted with myself for doing it. The second time, I was less concerned with the roleplay aspect. It was my first time playing on Nightmare, I was a rogue, and I didn't have Wynne with me. I needed a mage for the final battle, and Morrigan was it.



I don't think I'm going to accept her offer again. It just feels too wrong.

[Recidiva]

Zachriel wrote...

As a male, playing male characters, I've only accepted Morrigan's offer twice. The first time I was playing my blood mage, who was nearly as self centered as Morrigan herself. It was in character, but I felt pretty disgusted with myself for doing it. The second time, I was less concerned with the roleplay aspect. It was my first time playing on Nightmare, I was a rogue, and I didn't have Wynne with me. I needed a mage for the final battle, and Morrigan was it.

I don't think I'm going to accept her offer again. It just feels too wrong.

I was frankly insulted by the "it's cold in my tent" thing.  Man, you have Claudia's voice and THAT'S what you're doing with it?  *spit*

Eeeew.  But I wanted the achievement.  Only did it once. 

[Zachriel]

I was frankly insulted by the "it's cold in my tent" thing. Man, you have Claudia's voice and THAT'S what you're doing with it? *spit*



Eeeew. But I wanted the achievement. Only did it once.

lol! No kidding. It's almost as bad as Oghren's "You must be a baker" line, although that one is at least funny. My favorite reply to Morrigan's clumsy pick up line now is "Get another blanket."

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, duh.  But I was playing an elf mage.  I gave frak all for the Chantry (but those Templar boys were hawt in those skirts).  And a hardened Alistair apparently doesn't either.  Also, I rp'ed that Morrigan didn't know all of her mother's plans, which probably did include taking over Morrigan and then the god child, but gave Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, since she said that she wanted to rescue it to eventually free the mages.  (I didn't choose to do that in my final wish, though, silly me.  Though I don't think Irving's the right guy to lead a non-Chantry circle.  I really don't think he handled the Jowan mess well, sure let's sell one of our own out just to teach Gregoir a lession!  No wonder Cullen goes off the deep end if you suicide the Archdemon.)

Yeah, I told Alistair about the kid.  He asked a question which I don't remember, then I chose to let him talk to Morrigan about it.  Really?   A potential god child wandering about the planet and you ask about Ferelden's succession?  I thought, "You really HAVE grown a pair.  Not sure if it's the RIGHT pair, but I have only myself to blame."  But I think for it to work you have to have hardened him, first.  And she told him what she told me.  Not quite word for word, but pretty close that I couldn't find any Aes Sedai'ing of the words, since that's how Morrigan lies, not outright, but by not quite saying what you think she's saying.


Course, by the end of the game, I was the power behind the throne since the King had no one else to 'relieve tension with. '  And then stupid Anora had to butt in when he went to Weisshaupt.  

*squints*  That's really complicated.  Hey!  You didn't answer my question!

I didn't?  I'm sure I did.   Can't help it if I have a twistier mind than Morrigan!

To sum up:  I gave her the benefit of the doubt since I don't actually believe she's evil.  She's definitely "grey" and manipulative, but she didn't say anything out-right WRONG.  And my elf mage took her bargain for her own reasons.  WAY low on the list was staying with her man toy.  Ferelden needs it's Grey Wardens.  She kinda agreed with Loghain on the danger of letting Orlesian Wardens in, but not with his methods.  Two Grey Wardens, one of whom's butt is on the throne, is a far better safeguard against future Blights since we'll be rebuilding, and fast (capitol punish for all crimes is hereby suspended in Ferelden, you join the Wardens and go to the Deep Roads under the command of the Legion of the Dead, by order of Chancellor Moira).  And who's to say it didn't start in Ferelden in the first place because somehow the Archdemon KNEW the GW's were understrength, it is a God after all?    Moira, my elf mage, trusted her good friend Morrigan, for good or ill, and was arrogant enough to believe she could deal with whatever consequences that occurred).  And from the conversation I saw, Alistair did, too.  I played it that way, because I figured if he had ANY reservations, I'd turn her down and leave his butt at the gate and suicide the Archdemon myself.  He didn't.  But he had second thoughts before she blew out that candle, I could tell. 

[Recidiva]

Zachriel wrote...

lol! No kidding. It's almost as bad as Oghren's "You must be a baker" line, although that one is at least funny. My favorite reply to Morrigan's clumsy pick up line now is "Get another blanket."

Morrigan is a snark free for all.  Since she's going to disapprove of everything I do and her offer doesn't change no matter what her approval is, I don't care particularly.

But I love her voice.

Though I've yet to do a full playthrough with her in party.  The exasperation level just reaches critical mass somewhere after the second ally.

I did finally take her to the Anvil once and offered to turn her into the first golem if she thought I deserved the power of the anvil.  That was fun.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

I didn't?  I'm sure I did.   Can't help it if I have a twistier mind than Morrigan!

To sum up:  I gave her the benefit of the doubt since I don't actually believe she's evil.  She's definitely "grey" and manipulative, but she didn't say anything out-right WRONG.  And my elf mage took her bargain for her own reasons.  WAY low on the list was staying with her man toy.  Ferelden needs it's Grey Wardens.  She kinda agreed with Loghain on the danger of letting Orlesian Wardens in, but not with his methods.  Two Grey Wardens, one of whom's butt is on the throne, is a far better safeguard against future Blights since we'll be rebuilding, and fast (capitol punish for all crimes is hereby suspended in Ferelden, you join the Wardens and go to the Deep Roads under the command of the Legion of the Dead, by order of Chancellor Moira).  And who's to say it didn't start in Ferelden in the first place because somehow the Archdemon KNEW the GW's were understrength, it is a God after all?    Moira, my elf mage, trusted her good friend Morrigan, for good or ill, and was arrogant enough to believe she could deal with whatever consequences that occurred).  And from the conversation I saw, Alistair did, too.  I played it that way, because I figured if he had ANY reservations, I'd turn her down and leave his butt at the gate and suicide the Archdemon myself.  He didn't.  But he had second thoughts before she blew out that candle, I could tell. 

Well, I think the Grey Wardens need to be abolished anyway.  I'd only agree to "rebuild" them if I could start over entirely with a research department that didn't involve Avernus in any way.

I've never ended a game wanting to rebuild the Grey Wardens, just get as far away as possible.

I guess I just assume whatever Morrigan does, I won't be able to see it until it's too late. 

But the arrogance thing actually makes much more sense in that context.  That answered it!

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...

I didn't?  I'm sure I did.   Can't help it if I have a twistier mind than Morrigan!

To sum up:  I gave her the benefit of the doubt since I don't actually believe she's evil.  She's definitely "grey" and manipulative, but she didn't say anything out-right WRONG.  And my elf mage took her bargain for her own reasons.  WAY low on the list was staying with her man toy.  Ferelden needs it's Grey Wardens.  She kinda agreed with Loghain on the danger of letting Orlesian Wardens in, but not with his methods.  Two Grey Wardens, one of whom's butt is on the throne, is a far better safeguard against future Blights since we'll be rebuilding, and fast (capitol punish for all crimes is hereby suspended in Ferelden, you join the Wardens and go to the Deep Roads under the command of the Legion of the Dead, by order of Chancellor Moira).  And who's to say it didn't start in Ferelden in the first place because somehow the Archdemon KNEW the GW's were understrength, it is a God after all?    Moira, my elf mage, trusted her good friend Morrigan, for good or ill, and was arrogant enough to believe she could deal with whatever consequences that occurred).  And from the conversation I saw, Alistair did, too.  I played it that way, because I figured if he had ANY reservations, I'd turn her down and leave his butt at the gate and suicide the Archdemon myself.  He didn't.  But he had second thoughts before she blew out that candle, I could tell. 

I usually do the ritual anyway, but the character I'm playing now definitely will.  She's a noble who slept with Dairren.  They didn't have that long of a relationship (only one night) but I decided that she was falling for him still.  Since he dies she will do whatever it takes to keep Alistair alive.  Anything!

[Recidiva]

Seallyn wrote...

I usually do the ritual anyway, but the character I'm playing now definitely will.  She's a noble who slept with Dairren.  They didn't have that long of a relationship (only one night) but I decided that she was falling for him still.  Since he dies she will do whatever it takes to keep Alistair alive.  Anything!

Oh.  Poor Dairren.  That was a bit of a buzzkill.

Although I wasn't that attached.  I just wished Iona had joined in.  But that would have been sad ultimately, I guess.

Moral of the story:  Sleep with me and odds are, you'll die as a direct result.

Modifié par Recidiva, 20 décembre 2009 - 01:04 .

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I didn't?  I'm sure I did.   Can't help it if I have a twistier mind than Morrigan!

To sum up:  I gave her the benefit of the doubt since I don't actually believe she's evil.  She's definitely "grey" and manipulative, but she didn't say anything out-right WRONG.  And my elf mage took her bargain for her own reasons.  WAY low on the list was staying with her man toy.  Ferelden needs it's Grey Wardens.  She kinda agreed with Loghain on the danger of letting Orlesian Wardens in, but not with his methods.  Two Grey Wardens, one of whom's butt is on the throne, is a far better safeguard against future Blights since we'll be rebuilding, and fast (capitol punish for all crimes is hereby suspended in Ferelden, you join the Wardens and go to the Deep Roads under the command of the Legion of the Dead, by order of Chancellor Moira).  And who's to say it didn't start in Ferelden in the first place because somehow the Archdemon KNEW the GW's were understrength, it is a God after all?    Moira, my elf mage, trusted her good friend Morrigan, for good or ill, and was arrogant enough to believe she could deal with whatever consequences that occurred).  And from the conversation I saw, Alistair did, too.  I played it that way, because I figured if he had ANY reservations, I'd turn her down and leave his butt at the gate and suicide the Archdemon myself.  He didn't.  But he had second thoughts before she blew out that candle, I could tell. 

Well, I think the Grey Wardens need to be abolished anyway.  I'd only agree to "rebuild" them if I could start over entirely with a research department that didn't involve Avernus in any way.

I've never ended a game wanting to rebuild the Grey Wardens, just get as far away as possible.

I guess I just assume whatever Morrigan does, I won't be able to see it until it's too late. 

But the arrogance thing actually makes much more sense in that context.  That answered it!

Well, there's also the thing where, free from outside influence, you and Alistair can remake the Grey Wardens into the good guys he thinks they are (minus the murders and rapists you send to the Legion).  (The night I finished my first play-through, I actually had a REALLY vivid dream where Zevran (cause he stayed), Dog and I went to Weisshaupt and busted Alistair out of where they were holding him.  With an expert former assassin at my back, my trained thoroughbred Mabari at my side and my King behind me, I told them Ferelden's Grey Wardens answered to no one since no one came to our aide, and Ferelden's Grew Wardens were now independent of Weisshaupt.  After all, we have our own lands, now, don't we?  I got a little too into the game, I think.)

[Seallyn]

Recidiva wrote...

Oh.  Poor Dairren.  That was a bit of a buzzkill.

Although I wasn't that attached.  I just wished Iona had joined in.  But that would have been sad ultimately, I guess.

Moral of the story:  Sleep with me and odds are, you'll die as a direct result.

Awww... I know.  I kinda wish you could do something similar with Cullen.  Even if he did die, at least then he would die happy.

[Sialater]

Recidiva wrote...

Seallyn wrote...

I usually do the ritual anyway, but the character I'm playing now definitely will.  She's a noble who slept with Dairren.  They didn't have that long of a relationship (only one night) but I decided that she was falling for him still.  Since he dies she will do whatever it takes to keep Alistair alive.  Anything!

Oh.  Poor Dairren.  That was a bit of a buzzkill.

Although I wasn't that attached.  I just wished Iona had joined in.  But that would have been sad ultimately, I guess.

Moral of the story:  Sleep with me and odds are, you'll die as a direct result.

Poor Recidiva!  First Cullen, then Dairren, and then Alistair!  Men DIE for you!  Did Zevran at least live?

Mine just stick around.  And pester me.

[mousestalker]

Recidiva wrote...

Seallyn wrote...

I usually do the ritual anyway, but the character I'm playing now definitely will.  She's a noble who slept with Dairren.  They didn't have that long of a relationship (only one night) but I decided that she was falling for him still.  Since he dies she will do whatever it takes to keep Alistair alive.  Anything!

Oh.  Poor Dairren.  That was a bit of a buzzkill.

Although I wasn't that attached.  I just wished Iona had joined in.  But that would have been sad ultimately, I guess.

Moral of the story:  Sleep with me and odds are, you'll die as a direct result.

I prefer to think that the moral of that story is: Never open your door unless you have your clothes on. Which is a pretty good idea even in the most liberal and tolerant of societies.

[Seallyn]

Sialater wrote...

Well, there's also the thing where, free from outside influence, you and Alistair can remake the Grey Wardens into the good guys he thinks they are (minus the murders and rapists you send to the Legion).  (The night I finished my first play-through, I actually had a REALLY vivid dream where Zevran (cause he stayed), Dog and I went to Weisshaupt and busted Alistair out of where they were holding him.  With an expert former assassin at my back, my trained thoroughbred Mabari at my side and my King behind me, I told them Ferelden's Grey Wardens answered to no one since no one came to our aide, and Ferelden's Grew Wardens were now independent of Weisshaupt.  After all, we have our own lands, now, don't we?  I got a little too into the game, I think.)

You wouldn't be the only one.  My first play through I wasn't sure what would happen with Alistair if I made him king, so I ended up dreaming about it all night and it wasn't happy.  I woke up crying.  Then when I played and he dumped me I cried again.  I ended up redoing the scene to make Anora queen, cause I just couldn't take it.  Bah, although apparently if you harden him he won't dump.  You still have to persuade him, but it's not that hard. 

And what's this about him getting caught in Weisshaupt?  I don't remember reading that in the epilogue.  Did I miss it?  All I remember is it said he went there and told his love he would back soon... 

[Sialater]

Seallyn wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, there's also the thing where, free from outside influence, you and Alistair can remake the Grey Wardens into the good guys he thinks they are (minus the murders and rapists you send to the Legion).  (The night I finished my first play-through, I actually had a REALLY vivid dream where Zevran (cause he stayed), Dog and I went to Weisshaupt and busted Alistair out of where they were holding him.  With an expert former assassin at my back, my trained thoroughbred Mabari at my side and my King behind me, I told them Ferelden's Grey Wardens answered to no one since no one came to our aide, and Ferelden's Grew Wardens were now independent of Weisshaupt.  After all, we have our own lands, now, don't we?  I got a little too into the game, I think.)

You wouldn't be the only one.  My first play through I wasn't sure what would happen with Alistair if I made him king, so I ended up dreaming about it all night and it wasn't happy.  I woke up crying.  Then when I played and he dumped me I cried again.  I ended up redoing the scene to make Anora queen, cause I just couldn't take it.  Bah, although apparently if you harden him he won't dump.  You still have to persuade him, but it's not that hard. 

And what's this about him getting caught in Weisshaupt?  I don't remember reading that in the epilogue.  Did I miss it?  All I remember is it said he went there and told his love he would back soon... 

Back soon means what, DA:2 starts with you rescuing his pretty blond head?  I was stuck in Denerim, worried sick, Anora was a b---h, complaining about how if he's gone why couldn't she wear the crown... the Wardens were holding the King of a sovereign nation.... You're darned right I took matters into my own hands.  Plus,  Zevran was bored and Dog needed some exercise.

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

Poor Recidiva!  First Cullen, then Dairren, and then Alistair!  Men DIE for you!  Did Zevran at least live?

Mine just stick around.  And pester me.

Zevran lived.  I have yet to make it far into the game without either getting involved with either Alistair or Leliana. 

I know I accidentally slept with him, but that just sorta...happened.  I had no idea what was going on.  I'm sure I said yes to something, but it was much of a "Oh really?  Wow...that was quick.  And therefore, no fun."

So I guess if you show up to late and your spec is entirely screwy for a decent support character, you're safe.

I've done too many playthroughs as a rogue.  Lel and Zev became entirely obsolete.

It's hard not to get attached to Alistair when I pretty much relied on him entirely as a tank for the harder difficulty games or Leliana if she's the only rogue available for...half the game.

[Recidiva]

mousestalker wrote...

I prefer to think that the moral of that story is: Never open your door unless you have your clothes on. Which is a pretty good idea even in the most liberal and tolerant of societies.

/Zevran voice "That's good advice for anyone."

Oh and there's another thing.  Why did I have to get thrown into jail...naked?  Was that necessary?  That's all the public nakedness I needed.  I also noticed when Dairren died, I was naked and punching for that fight.  Whereas if I was alone, no naked punching.

I think Bioware is really pushing celibacy as a solution in general.